My hat is off to Lill... she chose to take Sandra to the final two. The reason was that she could live with Sandra having the money, and not Jon. I really, REALLY respect that decision. She would have WON the million had she taken Jon, but she went with her heart. What an awesome woman. That says A LOT, to me, about her character.
Congrats Lill on second place.
:::>^..^<::: ~*~The Journey is more important than the end or the start~*~ :::>^..^<:::
I too give Lil credit for taking Sandra when she stood a much better chance with Jon. Although I'm not quite convinced that she absolutely would've won the million had it been her and Jon. Jon's a damn good talker, and a lot of what he said about doing what he had to do to get to the final two, would've played very well to several of the jurors, and a few that said they would've voted for Lil, very easily may have voted Jon.
That's true, mcdog... but I think that those that were on the jury spent enough time with Jon, and knew of his deceit to others. They were sick of his cockiness, and many other things. I think that had she taken him to the final two, she would have won. People would have known of the crap that Sandra overheard. You know that she told Christa, and Christa told Rupert and the others. And Tijuana was taken to hear them too... so, that was something that they might have held against him. Plus, he pissed off ALL the women, with his chauvinist comments, left and right.
:::>^..^<::: ~*~The Journey is more important than the end or the start~*~ :::>^..^<:::
I hear what you're saying, but the worst of his truly chauvinist comments were made during his alone interviews (and I have to laugh when he makes comments like "I'm the Kind of Men and they're all women."). We'll never know what would've happened had it been Lil and Jon, but it easily could've gone either way. The jury seemed to be more concerned with honesty (during the questioning) rather than integrity, and Lil seemed to rub a few the wrong way. Again, Fairplay was so deep in the hole by that time though, who knows if he ever could've dug himself out.
I was so worried that Lill was going to make the smart move
and take Jon to the final 2 (I didn't want Lill or Jon to win)but I did have a gut feeling that she was going to go with her heart and pick Sandra because that has been the way she has played the game all along (no brains, all emotion)
I applaud her decision!!
In fact having made that decision to dump Jon and take Sandra I think I could have lived with the idea of Lill winning (before that I hated the idea of whiny Lill or even worse despicable Jon winning)
Good point, Benyamin. I think that I could have been happy with Lill winning, as long as she took Sandra with her. The thought of Jon being in the final two scared me. When his name was shown as the one to leave, Heidi and I jumped off the couch and yelled really loud. We were so happy....
:::>^..^<::: ~*~The Journey is more important than the end or the start~*~ :::>^..^<:::
When Lil chose Sandra, if some things we didn't know had been revealed by the jury questioning and they had voted for Lil to win, for "fair and square" reasons, I might have accepted it.
BUT
I do think Lil chose Sandra only partially because of her stated honorable and heartfelt reasons.
We must consider that Lil was probably half-believing what Sandra said, that she was nice and everyone loved her.
She may have thought her chances were about equal with either one.
Perhaps she was also hoping the jury would think somewhat as we do, and would think it was good of her to choose "with her heart".
I think the jury could've cared less. I don't think any of them really "liked" her at all, at least I saw no evidence of it. She was always grabbing at someone ( even Jeff at breakfast ) to hug or kiss and not vice-versa. They just barely tolerated her.
So I am concluding she must have been hard to live around ... honestly, even harder to live around than Jon.
In that situation, I could probably deal with Jon's personality. An a$$ is an a$$, you know ? You deal with it as we saw them all do in their own way.
Lil's personality, on the other hand, would probably get to me. The sorry's and the scout pledges and songs that Christa mentioned, combined with all that constant fawning, whining, and poor me stuff would have given me a splitting headache.
All things considered, and as you all say, we'll never know for sure, but I suspect any original probably could have beat Lil OR Burton, but Burton v. Jon, Darrah or maybe even Sandra might have been a little closer call ... not so with Lil.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly,what is essential is invisible to the eye."
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
I just couldn't stand all her sappy crying and whinning. I was shocked that she didn't break down in the final council. She started to, at the beginning, when Jeff asked her about her letters from home... and they showed Jon, rolling his eyes.
:::>^..^<::: ~*~The Journey is more important than the end or the start~*~ :::>^..^<:::
Host: You all have a lot of great questions for Lill, so let's get begin! Are you ready to take some questions?
Lillian: I would love to!
dizzyupthegirls: Lill...congrats! How surprised were you by how far you made it in the game after returning as an Outcast?
Lillian: I was very surprised. I knew that there was a lot of animosity against the Outcasts that came back in the game. I was surprised that with that animosity they chose to keep me around. I figured my original goal when I came into this game was not to be the first one out. Instead, I made second place and have so much support throughout the world for what I've accomplished. I've gotten letters from people from South Africa, Wales, Malaysia, Iraq, New Zealand...just to mention a few.
BigBuffalo: Lill, what were you thinking by not taking Jon? Did you really think you would beat Sandra?
Lillian: As an Outcast I was told on a number of occasions by the different players that they would not vote for me, that I was lucky to have gotten in a second time. I did a lot of praying about this and I chose the person that I was most like. Jon was a carouser, a party goer, a person whose lifestyle I did not approve of. I did like Jon, he did make me laugh on a number of occasions, but being me I usually adapt to how people are and accept them for that. When it came to making the decision of who I wanted to lose to, it was Sandra, being the mother she is who so often talks about her love for her children and her husband. She was an army wife and her dedication to her family touched my heart. I asked God for guidance for this and I made my decision. I have no regrets whatsoever.
all4jenna: Hi Lill, i'm sorry to hear about your mom dying. Did you ever watch the show with her before you were on?
Lillian: Yes, my mom wanted to be there until the end. She whispered that she'd liked to have found out what the ending was going to be like and she wanted to stick around for that. I figure she has a front row seat now, she saw it all, knew what was going on. I felt like she was supporting me and would have supported my decision to take Sandra to the end. Christmas was her favorite holiday, she even bought all these gifts for us.
Lizard: Can you describe in one word your Survivor experience from day one to the day you were voted off?
Lillian: One word, huh? Adventure.
sasha: Lill, if you had not been voted off before, would you have wanted an Outcast to win the million?
Lillian: If I had voted for example, Trish or Ryan (who knows the game so well) I would have wanted an Outcast to win, but knowing what I know now, I know the best they could have done as an Outcast was to come in second.
all4jenna: Hi Lill, congratulations on coming in second. Would you have lost the uniform to win?
Lillian: I did not plan on wearing the uniform for this game. The uniform represents honor, integrity...the laws, the oaths, which is like the ten commandments--they get broken once in a while. In order to win this game I had to put out of my mind that I was wearing this uniform. I did my share of deceit, backstabbing, lying--just like the other contestants. I became more of a target because I did have the uniform on. I did the best that I could while wearing the uniform. I was not disrespectful or unkind to anyone or harm them or badmouth them or call them names. I never did that on camera or off that I can remember. I just was not real open about how I was voting or where my mind was going as far as winning the game. That's what makes it so hard wearing this uniform and playing this game.
Shirley: Lillian, what are your feelings about the other Survivors now that you've watched the shows? Anyone surprise you in what they said about you or others?
Lillian: No, I hold no animosity against any of these young people. I love everyone of them from Shawn to Rupert. That's the type of person I am. They were playing a game just like I was playing a game. I feel that Andrew had so much on his plate when it came to trying to deal with his tribe. I feel that Rupert who is very loving and loyal to people--he was also leader of his group. Both of these young men became targets. Things said against me like I'm boring, I'm stupid, I'm clueless, I'm a bad player...these are things said because people are hurt or angry. They feel angry that I got a second chance and they resent that greatly. As far as holding any negative feelings against any of them--no, I love them all. I truly do. I wish I'd gotten to know Shawn better. The warmth he showed me at the reunion part was touching. I didn't even get to meet him until I was off the island.
Webelos: Hi Lillian, you were great! Did you ever confront Burton about him saying you backstabbed him?
Lillian: Burton and I talked. Burton's a young man who is used to winning. He's a strong competitor, a strong athlete. A young man that wanted to win. For a long time I didn't think he really realized that he also deceived me and lied to me. I don't think he realized that but I'm not going to pass through what's happened...I'm not going to point fingers...I'm not going to talk bad about a person. Burton was very good to me and very kind to me and I love him dearly. He accepted me for who I was. The game got in the way of personal friendships/relationships and I can only wish him the very, very best.
oooo: Lill, do you think Sandra deserved to win over the other 15 contestants?
Lillian: I would have liked to have seen Ryan Shoulders, who helped me get back in this game and the strength I had. I feel he could have been the one to win this because he knew so much about the game. He was like Burton, he accepted me for who I was and he was the one that voted me back into this game. As far as Sandra, she got there with her wits, her ability to manipulate, with her under the radar type activities...a lot like me!
akgurl23: How well did TV portray what really went on out there?
Lillian: I think they portray pretty well what goes on out there. I've had so many people tell me they don't think we're actually starving out there or geting medical treatment for minor injuries. As far as how they portrayed me...I was very disappointed in how they portrayed me. I feel I was portrayed as somewhat of a weakling. I feel if I was truly like that in real life I wouldn't be able to run a troup of 80 young men--teenagers, the fathers, some 35 to 40 leaders (men and women) and deal with all the siblings, the moms and dads that got involved in this troop! If I was that much of a weakling people would have run over me a long time ago and I wouldn't have the 17 years experience that I do as a scout master. I feel that I am an emotional person and I think people like that about me. I know my troop likes that about me. I lead with my heart--I don't lead with an iron fist.
PirateMom: Lill, where did they have you and the other Outcasts? A hotel? On an island in tents? In sleeping bags? What was the set up?
Lillian: We were secluded on an island by ourselves with very little food to eat, no distractions, nothing but our own company and anger for being voted off. We were given a bed to sleep in and none of the niceities you'd think we'd be getting, but we did have a cold shower. We didn't have like air conditioning or unlimited food or a jacuzzi.
crunch: Lill, did you find it difficult to chat the first time knowing you were back on the show as an Outcast?
Lillian: It wasn't difficult. It was kind of like my little secret! It made me feel warm inside. Sometimes I'd get criticized for how I played but deep down in my heart I knew that I wasn't done. What hurt me about it was when I had someone near and dear to me feel the pain for me and me knowing that I can't tell them to keep watching because it wasn't over yet!
Sandra4ever: Lill, do you think it is possible to make it through the game without telling one lie?
Lillian: It's impossible. Anyone who sits there and says they were never deceiful, they never lied or misinformed or even kept quiet (also considered a lie, if you know something's going on--"No, I'm not voting for you tonight" and then turning around and voting for you).
all4jenna: Hi Lill, is it true that you broke your foot while you were on the island?
Lillian: I never broke my foot but I have a drop foot. When I was on the box on the ocean squatted for two hours and 47 minutes, I pinched some nerves in my left ankle. It still isn't right but I'm hopeful. If you noticed, when I stood in front of Jeff and he put the sword on me, I was standing on one foot and he was more or less holding me up asking if I was okay. That was because...I didn't have a foot! [laughs] When I dove into the water after leaving Jeff I started sinking because that foot wouldn't kick and I'm a strong swimmer. The sword was very heavy but when you're trying to swim with one foot and two very tired arms...it was difficult. I had to ask for help.
Legend41: Lill, you surprised me with that raft immunity win. How much longer could you have lasted?
Lillian: I could have lasted longer. I was just praying. Prayer got me through this whole thing--including that challenge. I sang "Amazing Grace," I said the Lord's Prayer, I thought about the fact that my daughter wants to go to medical school, I thought about witnessing to God if I got through and finished this. I never asked God to win the million dollars. I just asked him to get me through and to show that I was worthy to be a contestant there and I believe he answered my prayer.
Timbuktu: Lill, What's your impression of Jeff as a host? Do you think he's unbiased?
Lillian: Jeff would approach each person individually...if they were giving him a rough way to go, he'd give it right back. If they were disrespectful, he'd give it right back to them. He was very quick to put people in their place and I feel that he has to. He had to be that way. I know on a number of occasions he was very kind to me. He one time put Jon in his place...we all know how Jon can be. He said, "Are you surprised to see who was voted out?" and Jon said, "Yeah, we thought it'd be cub girl over there," Jeff came back and said, "She's a Boy Scout master," and I looked at Jeff and said, "Thank you." Something you didn't see when they voted me back in was when I said "I am a nice person." Jeff had just told me that I was one of the nicest people Survivor ever had, and a few moments later he read my name and said I was going back in. I gave my uniform to the Elizabeth Glaser Pediatric AIDS foundation--my uniform, hat, shoes and he came over to me and hugged me and said "Thank you so much, Lill. I can't think of a better place where this would do good." It touches me that he has such an organization that he'd fundraise for. He and I are not that different in that aspect. That organization is near and dear to his heart. It deals with children as I deal with children.
justme: Lill, what your feeling about Jon when he says he controlled every move of your group?
Lillian: Oh, I think we proved him different...I proved him wrong. I think he controlled it as long as we let him. If it was going in our favor, how he was controlling it, that was okay. It was okay for us to let him think that way. You have to understand something, I'm in the Boy Scouts. In the Boy Scouts, we let young men lead. My strategy when I came back in was if these young men want to lead if they show leadership and take charge, you let them. Only when they start veering off in a direction you don't like do you step in and change it. I feel that's what I did. I didn't need to be a leader. I didn't need to be in charge. My husband told me to leave the scout master attitude at home and that's exactly what I did. Burton and Jon may have thought they had this all totally wrapped up but I believe, God love 'em, they underestimated us...No hard feelings.
kasie: So, I guess the Morgan tribe never did get their buried treasure, did they? Think it's still out there?
Lillian: It's still out there, somewhere! I would have loved to have had it but it's still out there.
HockeyPerson: How long was the questioning at the last final Tribal Council, and what question of Jon was not shown on tv? Thanks.
Lillian: I would say Tribal Council at that time was an hour. Jon said something to me that was just...it hurt. I'm sure he was pleased that it hurt. He said to me that I'd often talked about how I work with the scouts and told me that through the deception and deceitfulness I had shown, the Boy Scouts would have nothing to do with me. He said I was a disgrace to the organization, that I had no right to be part of the Scouting movement. He told me that all my hopes for being embraced by Scouters all over the world wasn't going to happen, that I might as well take this uniform out and burn it. He said that he knew my dreams were to wear it again, to show it off but that I didn't deserve to wear the uniform. At that time it was right on the tip of my tongue to tell him that I knew about his lie about his grandmother because in my heart I knew that he was lying. I wanted to call him on it because he was dumping on me at Tribal Council. I didn't do it because I knew it'd be good for the show to keep my mouth shut.
justme: Lill, Did you really lose the fishing hook? And what happened to the other two? Who lost those? Here's a chance to redeem yourself.
Lillian: Yes, I lost the fishing hook and no I'm not going to tell anybody who the other people are. It was within the Morgan Tribe...how about that?
SURVIVOR Host: I am sorry to say that our hour with Lillian is up. Lill, thanks so much for being here to chat with us today, and congratulations on finishing in the final two. Do you have any final comments for the SURVIVOR fans?
Lillian: It has been a pleasure to be able to voice some of my opinions and my concerns. I am open for anything else that comes my way. Give me a call! Lots of love, Lill.
.........................
Just a comment ... Boy, besides being a jerk in general, Jon is a mean and cruel person. Personally, I do not think Lil was edited to show the Scouts or Scouting favorably, and I have said before that in general, Lil disappointed me.
I do find her concept of letting the males take the "lead" until they got off track very interesting. Let the guys drive while the women hold the map ? It did not translate that way on the show, but is still very interesting to learn that she was thinking that way.
I do think Jon's comments to Lil were totally uncalled for and as said ... just uneccessary cruelty and something I do not understand. I think the man is a sociopath.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly,what is essential is invisible to the eye."
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
but the order of boot I prefer at this point is:
NOT SO I SAY!! lol
11-16-2003 06:09 PM
(I didn't want Lill or Jon to win)but I did have a gut feeling that she was going to go with her heart and pick Sandra because that has been the way she has played the game all along (no brains, all emotion) 
combined with all that constant fawning, whining, and poor me stuff would have given me a splitting headache. 
