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Dhs8102
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File sharing is legal post #1  quote:



How come you can record songs off CD's with casette tapes and share those, but you cant record songs off the computer with discs and share them; we can and we will. Besides artists make more then enough money, its those damn muny hungry attorny's that want a chunk of it. I say if they want to stop Morpheus they'll also have to stop the producers of blank cassette tapes.

Old Post 09-12-2003 06:08 AM
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Mike James
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post #2  quote:

As long as you BOUGHT the media, it is legal for you to share it with others. If they want to share it, however, they have to buy it, too.

The music industry is focusing mostly on online sharing because it is by far the most common, the easiest to do, and the easiest to STOP.


Old Post 09-13-2003 10:09 PM
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MrJukoVette
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post #3  quote:

quote:
Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.

Exactly!


Old Post 09-14-2003 02:30 PM
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Mike James
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post #4  quote:

Well I'm glad you like my sig, but this thread is about p2p File Sharing....

Which is illegal.


Old Post 09-15-2003 04:18 AM
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nicegerbil
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post #5  quote:

I tend to agree with all of you.

1) If you own a cassette (assuming you bought it or obtained it
legally) then you may make copies as long as you don't
charge for them. The recording industry has fought 8 tracks,
cassettes, VCRs, CDR, and CDRWs. Each time they have cried
wolf claiming that the industry was coming to an end.
2) It is unfair to the artist who works hard to earn the money.
After all, how would you feel to have your labor stolen?
3) The music industry is losing market share because they are
inhibiting the release of new acts unless they fall within the
formula which is selling. Otherwise, they are taking less risks.
Having said that I would like to hear an objective debate without the emotional garbage.

2)


Old Post 09-15-2003 06:55 AM
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MrJukoVette
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post #6  quote:

It is illegal, but as i have stated before, shutting down Kazaa/Morpheus/E-Donkey won't solve the problem - all the FTPs and FXP boards... How come they are perfectly legal?

Old Post 09-15-2003 02:13 PM
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nicegerbil
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post #7  quote:

RIIA is only looking for a quick fix. The downloading is still the act of taking the labor of the artist. However, file trading has led to record sales as recording from the radio had in the past.

The means of the download do not matter, the law is clear on copyright infringement. I have bought CDs after sampling music on the internet when the artist's work merits it.

My vast music collection includes everything from A to Z in just about every music style. There are audiophile recordings which are worth the money and many popular artist are quickly found in the used CD market.

Downloading for profit is something which I am completely against.

TTFN


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twinkiestar
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post #8  quote:

The way I see it is that their are teachers making $30,000 a year, schools with limited resources, less fortunate individuals with no health insurance.....and then their are artists like Brittany Spears making $68 mil a year. If you can share your files go for it....we still go to their concerts, buy off their clothing lines/perfume/other products. I think they can sacrifice a million or two.

Old Post 09-15-2003 04:41 PM
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nicegerbil
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post #9  quote:

quote:
Originally posted by twinkiestar
The way I see it is that their are teachers making $30,000 a year, schools with limited resources, less fortunate individuals with no health insurance.....and then their are artists like Brittany Spears making $68 mil a year. If you can share your files go for it....we still go to their concerts, buy off their clothing lines/perfume/other products. I think they can sacrifice a million or two.


Dear twinkiestar;

Let me see if I understand you correctly. It is OK to steal from somebody or an entity as long as they are making plenty of money. The old Robin Hood "Steal from the rich and give to the poor" or is it also OK to shoplift because the store is making plenty of profit?

Society dictates the teacher's salaries as well as what we value in general. If society as a whole cared about people and their education then teachers would get paid more as a starting salary. Look around and you will see that there are many teachers who are worthless but are making over $60,000 per year with benefits.

Whether we buy the artist's products is irrelevant. It is not their choice to have us download their music. Their "sacrifice" should be their choice not ours.


Old Post 09-16-2003 04:57 PM
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twinkiestar
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post #10  quote:

quote:
Originally posted by nicegerbil


Dear twinkiestar;

Let me see if I understand you correctly. It is OK to steal from somebody or an entity as long as they are making plenty of money. The old Robin Hood "Steal from the rich and give to the poor" or is it also OK to shoplift because the store is making plenty of profit?

Society dictates the teacher's salaries as well as what we value in general. If society as a whole cared about people and their education then teachers would get paid more as a starting salary. Look around and you will see that there are many teachers who are worthless but are making over $60,000 per year with benefits.

Whether we buy the artist's products is irrelevant. It is not their choice to have us download their music. Their "sacrifice" should be their choice not ours.


Well, As a compliance examiner with the Securities and Exchange Commissioner (www.sec.gov in case YOU are not aware of the federal agency), no I do not believe that stealing can be justified. However, these companies that are making money are doing it through the means of robbing the youth by overpricing cds and using propaganda to achieve thier goal. If you know anything about finance at all, you too (as I have) would be able to compile substantial evidence, including graphs and market quotes of the music industry, to make a sound conclusion that in the long run file sharing would not hurt the record company.


Old Post 09-18-2003 12:41 AM
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nicegerbil
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post #11  quote:

OOOPS! Did I step on a Federal Toe? What I do does not bestow authority on the ethics spoused. Finance or economics? Choose your ground. I choose Economics for now.

The market will regulate itself by supply and demand. In other words, if the price is too high then the consumption will go down unless the good has a low elasticity. Music is a highly elastic good.

I agree that the price of CDs is rather high. The industry is already talking about lowering the price of CDs. What dictates the price of a good? People's willingness to pay the price. Your job may or may not pay as much as private industry but somehow you see fit to sell your labor to the goverment for the price that they are willing to pay. Whether we agree with your present wage makes no difference to the labor market.

The issue is one of ethics not finance or economics. Stealing is stealing. Under present law file sharing is illegal and infringes on the artist's livelihood. Not all of the artists are as lucky as Spears nor do they have a long carreer ahead of them. They are entertainers just as a football or basketball player is an entertainer. You are not proposing sneaking into games or re-transmiting a game without permission are you?

Politics aside, remember that our economy is based on selling for "what the market will bear." Whether the music industry is making obscene profits or not is not part of the equation. The only question is whether we will change the law or continue to flaunt it.

Looking forward to your reply. I enjoy an intelligent conversation.


Old Post 09-18-2003 06:42 AM
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BrianKP
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post #12  quote:

quote:
Originally posted by twinkiestar

compliance examiner with the Securities and Exchange Commissioner (www.sec.gov in case YOU are not aware of the federal agency),


Please tell the Securities and Exchange Commission"ER" (although I doubt you can, since I also doubt you work there) that I find it quite amusing that one of Mr. Commissioner's compliance examiner's refutes the ability for an artist/industry to profit for it's work, thereby justifying profit loss because "They can afford to lose a million or two."

Since when does the SEC involve itself in fair market value of a product or service? CONSUMERS provide the value - not you or any other federal agency. Stick to solving problems WHILE obeying the law, and you will be much better off.

I'm sure every entrepreneur in the world rests easier at night knowing you are on the job!


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Edward Teach
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post #13  quote:

Well first of all, artist do not make much of anything off of their CD's. The record labels do. That is why they are so mad about it. The CD is a tool to advertise the artist songs. They make their money from concerts.

The reason they weren't too worried about casettes, 8 tracks and LPs was because the average Joe couldn't make a decent copy. Now that digital media is here the average Joe get's an exact copy. And if they can make an exact copy of an entire CD then what's to stop them from making batches of CD's and making money off of them. Do they really believe that the several hundren thousand people downloading one song from the internet is eating into their profits? I assure you that if it was upto most artist, since they are not making much off of a CD anyway, they wouldn't mind if you download a song or two off of their CD. Again because they are making their money from the concert. Unless of course they own the record label.


Old Post 11-11-2003 09:48 PM
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