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Marc Flemming
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Post Ten Commandments monument moved post #1  quote:



Movers Wednesday morning relocated the controversial Ten Commandments monument at the Alabama Judicial Building. The 5,300-pound granite slab remains in the building, but out of public view.

The Washington-based Christian Defense Coalition, filed a federal lawsuit in Mobile on Monday to block the removal. A hearing on that case was canceled Wednesday morning.

Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore placed the monument in the judicial building's rotunda in August 2001.

The state's Judicial Inquiry Commission suspended him from office last week for his refusal to move it. Moore argues that the Ten Commandments are the foundation of the U.S. legal system and that forbidding the acknowledgment of the Judeo-Christian God violates the First Amendment.

The Rev. Rob Schenck of the National Clergy Council in Washington, D.C., told CNN on Wednesday, "The building manager has told us that the monument will not be removed from the premises."

Patrick Mahoney, director of the Christian Defense Coalition, said one firm contacted about removing the monument has refused to do so, and he urged Moore's supporters to boycott any company that took the job.

"When we discover that (moving) company, I think they're going to be sorry they cooperated with this act," Schenck said.

The company that built the monument and put it in place two years ago refused to remove it, the state attorney general said.

Tuesday, Alabama Attorney General Bill Pryor told CNN that he believed the monument was appropriately displayed but that he was obligated to carry out a federal court order requiring its removal and it would be gone before Friday.

The commission has charged Moore with six ethics violations for defying a federal court order to remove the monument. Commission spokeswoman Margaret Childers said Moore has 30 days to respond to the ethics charges. The state's Court of the Judiciary could decide to punish Moore or even remove him from the bench.

Three Alabama lawyers sued over its display, and U.S. District Judge Myron Thompson found it was an unconstitutional promotion of religion.

Moore appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court, but the high court refused to stay Thompson's order, which had demanded that the monument be removed by midnight August 20.

Richard Cohen, chief legal counsel for the Southern Poverty Law Center, said the monument's placement is a violation of law.

"It's a clear government endorsement or promotion of religion," he said. "Justice Moore has used the monument to promote his version of Christianity, and the government really can't play favorites when it comes to something so important as religion."

Many of Moore's backers waited outside the state judicial building through the weekend, threatening to block efforts to remove the monument.

Source: CNN


Old Post 08-27-2003 04:56 PM
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Kookaburra
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post #2  quote:

I'm game for joining, or starting a group of people to file a lawsuit to start removing everything offensive to us from public view.

Here's my list of things I want removed:

1. Harry Potter books from public areas
2. Nude dancing billboards
3. Offensive bumper stickers
4. Koran
5. Gay TV shows and other displays of homosexuality
6. Holloween displays
7. I'll add more later.

Now that we are attacking everyone's freedom of speech, what kind of country are we going to end up with now? They want to remove our beliefs from the public... it's only fair that everything they value or like is also tucked away out of the view of the public.


Old Post 08-27-2003 05:21 PM
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post #3  quote:

Whose freedom of speech is under attack? It certainly isn't Moore's! He can put that statue on top of his car and drive circles around the state capitol all day if he wants, so long as it's secured safely. He can't install religious statues in GOVERNMENT OFFICES and call it 'practicing his freedom of speech'. That's ubsurd, which is why the statue has been removed.

Old Post 08-27-2003 10:59 PM
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post #4  quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Kukabeara


Here's my list of things I want removed:

1. Harry Potter books from public areas
2. Nude dancing billboards
3. Offensive bumper stickers
4. Koran
5. Gay TV shows and other displays of homosexuality
6. Holloween displays
7. I'll add more later.



1.) Never read the books but I think the movies are pretty good.
2.) I live in the Bible Belt so these are not an option ( so called anyways - biggest lie and stretch of the truth I have ever heard...Ask me why - I'll tell you stuff you WOULDN'T believe about the bible belt. Including a private christian bible college that has a big problem (see your number 5 for details)
I love making fun of Oklahoma..probably because i'm not from here :lol

3.) Some are funny but are Unnecessary ).
4.) Is that in public view?
5.) Preach it Kukabeara!
6.) I spray the little demons with the water hose every year


Old Post 08-28-2003 02:02 AM
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DAVID GOLDBLATT
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post #5  quote:

I love how Christians think they have any "rights" left in the former U.S.A.......In the words of Ariel Sharon, "We, the jewish people control America, and the Americans know it". Now chew your cud and go to sleep, sheeple. Don't forget to pay all of your taxes.

DAVID GOLDBLATT


Old Post 08-28-2003 03:34 AM
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post #6  quote:

quote:
Originally posted by DAVID GOLDBLATT
I love how Christians think they have any "rights" left in the former U.S.A.......In the words of Ariel Sharon, "We, the jewish people control America, and the Americans know it". Now chew your cud and go to sleep, sheeple. Don't forget to pay all of your taxes.

DAVID GOLDBLATT


Are you one of them that rejected our Messiah too? You think you control the USA, but I have news for you. God controls everything in the universe, and we already know the fate of this world. America won't be spared from its destruction anymore than your country will. God will bring down a new heaven and a new earth.

Control all you want.. we all have only two fates. In the presence of God, or in the absense of God.

Whatever becomes of the US is up to God's will, but I have no fear because I'm a child of God, and I know what He spoke about the end times.

So, why are you here posting your snide remarks about our country anyway? Your post is off-topic and doesn't even mention anything about the monument.


Old Post 08-28-2003 04:24 AM
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post #7  quote:

Soon we will turn your churches into slaughterhouses and brothels just as we did in the former russia...there isnt much you can do about it.....sit back and enjoy.


DAVID GOLDBLATT


Old Post 08-28-2003 04:40 AM
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post #8  quote:

quote:
Originally posted by DAVID GOLDBLATT
Soon we will turn your churches into slaughterhouses and brothels just as we did in the former russia...there isnt much you can do about it.....sit back and enjoy.


DAVID GOLDBLATT


That sounds to me like an act of terrorism, and I hope this forum is logging your IP address so they can turn you in to Homeland Security!


Last edited by Kookaburra on 08-28-2003 at 05:21 AM |
Old Post 08-28-2003 04:41 AM
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post #9  quote:

No, I think that David is just trying to say that it's okay for Christians to "hem and haw" to get what they want, but anyone else says they want something and suddenly you attack everything we want.

You post all the things you want taken away... and you know what, maybe you've offended some with your list. You've certainly hit two things that have hit a nerve with me. But, that's okay. It's your opinion and what you want. I'm not asking for your things to be removed from the face of this earth.

You go David... I mean, you are going a little TOO far... but still, I'm with you.


Old Post 08-28-2003 05:24 AM
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post #10  quote:

quote:
Originally posted by KJPotter
No, I think that David is just trying to say that it's okay for Christians to "hem and haw" to get what they want, but anyone else says they want something and suddenly you attack everything we want.

I don't think speaking about making our churches a slaughterhouse is appropriate.

You post all the things you want taken away... and you know what, maybe you've offended some with your list.

I've posted? Really? I'm reading how the other side would like to take "In God We Trust" off our money. I'm reading insults directed at us. I'm reading all kinds of anger on both sides.

You've certainly hit two things that have hit a nerve with me.

By your nickname... let me guess... Harry Potter hit your nerve?

But, that's okay. It's your opinion and what you want. I'm not asking for your things to be removed from the face of this earth.

You go David... I mean, you are going a little TOO far... but still, I'm with you.

How you can encourage someone that posts something like what he did, and still be a moderator, is beyond me.



Old Post 08-28-2003 05:36 AM
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post #11  quote:

kjpotter and I are good jews....we each said our kol nidre three times at yom kippur and any bleeting from Christians iz irrelevant...make sure to pay your taxes.

DAVID GOLDBLATT


Old Post 08-28-2003 05:45 AM
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post #12  quote:

Kuka... I'm NOT encouraging him to post things like that. I said that I can agree with him, but that he went too far. I don't think that his comments about turning the churches into slaughter houses was a good comment. But, I was talking about his original post. I think that he was just pushing back at all the stuff that is being pushed at non-believers of the Christian faith.

Does it really matter WHAT nerve you hit? And Harry Potter is nothing. I'm talking bigger issue's to me. But, that's not what this thread is about.

Yes, everyone has the right to their own opinions. And some people wanted that monument gone, while others didn't. It's gone now... end of story.

My feelings... and let me stress this... these are MY feelings. I'm not pushing on anyone else, nor do I want to. I'm not judging, as I see MANY people, all over this entire board do, left and right.

Religion and state are TWO SEPERATE entities. Just because you have religious beliefs, doesn't mean the next person does, or vice versa. There are a lot of people who just simply don't want to have to go into a court house and look at the Ten Commandments. For me, it really doesn't bother me. I'm not offended by them in the slightest... but there are many people who are.

There are two different "mountains" in the city where I live, and they each have a huge cross on top of them. There are so many people who want those removed, and have sued the city for that reason. Both were not approved, and to this day, the crosses stand. There are hundreds of people who really take offense to them, while there are hundreds more who love them there.

Just because you believe in God, doesn't mean everyone else has to. It doesn't mean that if someone doesn't, that people of faith should ridicule them. And there is a lot of that going on in here. So David is Jewish. To have a comment back to him like...

Are you one of them that rejected our Messiah too?

That's really out of character. Why is it that Christians bash non-Christians? Why is it that Non-Christians bash the believers? I'm so sick and tired of it. Every single person has the right to their own beliefs, without judgement... without pointing the finger at them and saying that God will get them. Christians push non-believers away just from their statements and don't even realize it. And non-believers make comments right back. It seems like a "who's right... ego trip" to me. Back and forth, never ending.

Anyway... back to the origin of this thread. And that's about the monument being removed. Like I said, I don't care, one way or the other if it was there or not. If I need to read the commandments, I have plenty of bibles in my home.


Old Post 08-28-2003 05:52 AM
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post #13  quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Kukabeara
I'm game for joining, or starting a group of people to file a lawsuit to start removing everything offensive to us from public view.

Here's my list of things I want removed:

1. Harry Potter books from public areas
2. Nude dancing billboards
3. Offensive bumper stickers
4. Koran
5. Gay TV shows and other displays of homosexuality
6. Holloween displays
7. I'll add more later.

Now that we are attacking everyone's freedom of speech, what kind of country are we going to end up with now? They want to remove our beliefs from the public... it's only fair that everything they value or like is also tucked away out of the view of the public.


So tell me, kuka... why is it okay for you to want all these things removed, but it's not okay to have a monument removed? How about if all non-believers wanted churches to be removed, because the sight of them was offensive to them? How is it that it's okay for you to want these things, but not to have it be the other way around? Confused and asking.


Old Post 08-28-2003 05:54 AM
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post #14  quote:

quote:
Originally posted by DAVID GOLDBLATT
kjpotter and I are good jews....we each said our kol nidre three times at yom kippur and any bleeting from Christians iz irrelevant...make sure to pay your taxes.

DAVID GOLDBLATT


Ummmmmmmmm David, I'm not Jewish!!


Old Post 08-28-2003 05:55 AM
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post #15  quote:

quote:
Originally posted by KJPotter
Kuka... I'm NOT encouraging him to post things like that. I said that I can agree with him, but that he went too far. I don't think that his comments about turning the churches into slaughter houses was a good comment. But, I was talking about his original post. I think that he was just pushing back at all the stuff that is being pushed at non-believers of the Christian faith.

Actually, he's lashing out at Americans. He's posting the same hate messages on other forums here. If it was just churches... he would keep it in this forum.

Does it really matter WHAT nerve you hit? And Harry Potter is nothing. I'm talking bigger issue's to me. But, that's not what this thread is about.

Yes, everyone has the right to their own opinions. And some people wanted that monument gone, while others didn't. It's gone now... end of story.

Beginning of story. As long as it's still a subject of interest, the story is not over.

My feelings... and let me stress this... these are MY feelings. I'm not pushing on anyone else, nor do I want to. I'm not judging, as I see MANY people, all over this entire board do, left and right.

Actually, by your very posts in response to ours, you are doing the same thing. You just think you aren't. By you encouraging and stating you side with someone's opinion, you actually pushed too, but you just used someone else's words as your voice.

Religion and state are TWO SEPERATE entities.

This has yet to be defined by the US. I'm sure now that the Alabama event has caused so much rucus... the US needs to act and make it clear to all what they mean by separation of church and state, because there are two contradictions, and they can't both be right. Until it's made clear, or rewritten, we are in a stalemate on what it really means.

<trimmed for space>

Just because you believe in God, doesn't mean everyone else has to. It doesn't mean that if someone doesn't, that people of faith should ridicule them. And there is a lot of that going on in here. So David is Jewish. To have a comment back to him like...

Are you one of them that rejected our Messiah too?

His messages are hatred towards us. I asked a question. If he was one that rejects Him, it would explain his hatred towards us.

That's really out of character.

It's not out of character at all. I really want to know. He's posting hate messages, so I would like to know if he cares to share the answer.

<trimmed>


Old Post 08-28-2003 06:07 AM
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post #16  quote:

Yes, and I've found all those posts, and am doing something about it.

Old Post 08-28-2003 06:11 AM
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post #17  quote:

quote:
Originally posted by KJPotter


So tell me, kuka... why is it okay for you to want all these things removed, but it's not okay to have a monument removed? How about if all non-believers wanted churches to be removed, because the sight of them was offensive to them? How is it that it's okay for you to want these things, but not to have it be the other way around? Confused and asking.


You missed the sarcasm in my post, and my list. I posted it in response to the monument being moved because people were offended by it.

I started making a list of offensive things that are allowed to be in the public, so if we are going to start removing things offensive to one group, then my point was: we need to remove everything offensive to everyone. We can't just select one group of people who get to remove things that offend them, but no one else gets that priviledge.


Old Post 08-28-2003 06:21 AM
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post #18  quote:

quote:
Originally posted by KJPotter


So tell me, kuka... why is it okay for you to want all these things removed, but it's not okay to have a monument removed? How about if all non-believers wanted churches to be removed, because the sight of them was offensive to them? How is it that it's okay for you to want these things, but not to have it be the other way around? Confused and asking.


I think he was halfway being sarcastic... you know, pointing out how absurd and skewed thie whole situation is...


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post #19  quote:

Gotcha, kuka!!! The problem is... we really can't see and hear each other. We miss when we're being serious, or funny. It's really hard to tell. And I agree. There are just too many who want their rights, but everyone else's taken. Just not a good thing. There are too many differences in people to think that just one way is the right way.

Old Post 08-28-2003 06:25 AM
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post #20  quote:

quote:
Originally posted by KJPotter
Gotcha, kuka!!! The problem is... we really can't see and hear each other. We miss when we're being serious, or funny. It's really hard to tell. And I agree. There are just too many who want their rights, but everyone else's taken. Just not a good thing. There are too many differences in people to think that just one way is the right way.


You're very right. We are all walking a fine line between debating or arguing and judging. I think each of us are trying to defend what we believe in, and in the process of doing so, we lash out when we feel like our beliefs are challenged or threatened.

I'm really struggling with this as I learned tonight that the Bible speaks against getting in arguments over God. I know I'm arguing and I also know trying to defend our views on God is a big turn-off for non-believers. It is just as big a turn-off to us, as hearing things opposite of God. It's very difficult for me to get in a discussion on a forum because you really can't see what people are expressing in their faces, or in their hearts. We get blunt text without emotions.

I am extremely guilty of arguing about God. I also am aware He doesn't need our defense. So... why do I defend Him? I guess because I fear not saying anything and remaining silent, is worse. Any thoughts from both sides of the fence?


Old Post 08-28-2003 06:38 AM
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post #21  quote:

Well, I go to church, and I do believe in God. But, I differ from many Christians in my beliefs. I don't believe that the bible is God breathed. I think that it's stories to help us... but that they were written at a time, by the men of the time... and that we have changed, and that people still take SOME things from the bible and use them, but not others! Still, I love going to church and worshipping with my spiritual family. I love hearing the message preached each week... it really helps me. But, I don't push what my beliefs are on any other person. I really "try" to just live my life the best that I can... hurting no one around me, and giving to those in need.
God doesn't need defending... you're right about that. And it's so sad watching others being turned off by religion because of the people. I'm not religious, I'm spiritual.
That's why I don't really care one way or the other about this monument that has been removed. Did that monument take away anyone persons faith? If it did, than they didn't have any to begin with. They don't "need" a monument or a statue, or anything else. It's what is inside of each individual that counts. NO ONE can take what you believe in away from you. It's within each person... to their core.


Old Post 08-28-2003 06:50 AM
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post #22  quote:

Multi-posting is a no-no

Old Post 08-28-2003 07:14 AM
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post #23  quote:

hey - david soldblood (sp?) ...there is several threads you have missed - check out the flamer's ward at the end of inreview.com - they will talk to you there, even (dis)cuss right back at you

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