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auntgoldie
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Chief justice defiant on Ten Commandments monument post #1  quote:



MONTGOMERY, Ala., Aug. 21 ? Rejecting a ruling by his fellow justices, Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore said Thursday that he would continue to defy a federal judge?s order that a Ten Commandments monument be removed from the public area of the state judicial building while asking the U.S. Supreme Court to re-examine the divisive case. Meanwhile, Moore?s supporters vowed to prevent workers from removing the monument, calling on all ?Christian people who love God? to come to Montgomery and join their blockade.

There are three versions of the Ten Commandments? The Protestant, the Catholic and the Hebrew versions. The statute near the state judicial building is the Catholic version. You mean there is no other religion in Montgomery, Alabama other than Catholic? In my opinion, that statute should be put in a Catholic Church. It does not belong in a public place where other people of different beliefs go. The people of Montgomery should be ashamed of themselves to put a religious monument up that does not reflect the beliefs of all the people!!!


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auntgoldie
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post #2  quote:

See the attached site. It reiterates my above opinion.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/955476.asp?0na=x220S222-


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jrkiv
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post #3  quote:

The thing about a democracy is that you don't have to represent the views of all people (which is impossible by the way), as long as nobody's rights are being infringed on. Seeing the ten commandments in a public place isn't infringing on anybody's rights, i see things every day i find offensive but that doesn't mean i have a right not to see them ... how about we let the people in the state vote on it? A novel idea for democratic society.

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auntgoldie
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The Ten Commandments Monument post #4  quote:

Fine, if the people vote on it, let it stay; however, thank goodness I don't live in that state!!

What about placing it in a memorial-like setting (i.e. the holocaust memorial, veterans memorial, etc.), or placing it in a building for people who would like to see it (a church). Plus, how do you account for the way Moore is "calling on all 'Christian people who love God' to come to Montgomery and join their blockade." Seems like anti-semitism to me!!! Did you click on the above site and see Moore with his followers and one of them holding a cross.


Last edited by auntgoldie on 08-22-2003 at 04:37 PM |
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jrkiv
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post #5  quote:

Heaven forbid someone holding a cross ... throw him in jail, burn him, that cross is offensive ... whatever happened to freedom of expression and religion. Everybody is griping nowadays about freedom of speech being under assault, how about freedom of religion. The constitution didn't say "you have the right to practice religion just as long as nobody can see it and be 'offended' by it" although i have no idea why someone else would be offended by a person's expression of faith.
Do you realize that the ten commandments and the moral authority of God is the basis of law in america? That is why it is in the courthouse, as a monument to the history of the law, not as an evangelical tool or else it would have quotes from Christ on it instead of quotes from Jefferson.
The bottom line is that there is a movement to remove faith from every public aspect of life in america on the grounds that public expressions of faith are not inclusive. WHAT? This is america! The constitution explicitly says that you have the right to express your religion, whenever, whereever ... it says nothing about some right to not be offended by the expressions of others. This is a case of the faithless imposing their faithlessness on the faithful by arguing that the faithful are imposing their faithfulness on them. Absurd ... and the consequence will be the further moral decay of this society.


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auntgoldie
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post #6  quote:

I don't find it offensive if someone is holding a cross. I was just pointing out that this is a religious cause and not a public cause. As I said before, let them keep it, but they will be losing a lot of tourism and I'll be one of them!!! I value your opinion and I was just stating mine. Did you read Dahlia Lithwick's article from the Slate "One of the hard lessons of the religion cases is that if the public square is going to welcome everyone, it cannot necessarily welcome all of their gods. Perhaps the most American sentiment of all is the faith that somehow, He will be there anyhow." Therefore, since the public square cannot welcome all of their gods, let each individual welcome their own God without having a prejudicial monument!!!

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post #7  quote:

America has a prejudicial bias against public displays of Religious content?
Thats a joke. Everywhere we go now some one is against something. Here in the south the "African Americans" have a whole out war about the confederate flag. They state that this is a direct slur agaisnt them when they were slaves. Comon, we in the South love the confederate flags because so many Southerners lost their lives defending it. Not the concept of Slavery, but the concept of Bravery and pride.
Our children, thanks to the like of Madeline Omurray can not now say the Lords Prayer, we can not even say "under God" in the Pledge.

When does this ever end. We the people really have no say in what is going on.
We were subjected to The whole Affirmative hiring and getting into schools issues. When this issue was eliminated, there was so much fuss made that it was put back into effect, suposedly limited, but its the same Affirmative Action policy it always was, so people of Color, and other minorities would get the first entry into Higher education Colleges and into positions after.
Listen I am not a radical person but I don't think the Framers of the constituion had all of the present turmoil on their minds when Freedom of religion was one of the Constituions amendments.

Religion belongs in the church, remember the Church and
State Seperation? This means all religions, not just Christians.
I was more upset about the Vietnam Vets's Memorial finnaly getting built then people marching down here over the confederate flag and a statue of one of of the Generals ( Jackson) which they had dismantled. Isn't this all going a little bit too far?


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auntgoldie
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post #8  quote:

It is going a little too far. Everybody feels differently about their beliefs and backgrounds but noone should be favored over another because of their differences. Therefore, as I was trying to eloquently put it, let's keep everything on an equal basis. And Moore has, throughout his entire career, used his position on the bench to advocate his religous beliefs.

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post #9  quote:

Moore is a vote grabbing anti Jewish smiuck and is only looking for the best way to get votes, and now it is to suck up to the"Christians" LOL NOt the jr Christian Christians but the fringe's who yell the loudest amd cause the most commotion.

WE the Catholics have enough problems on our hands with the "hands " on Priets who the church has hidden under the
Holy" cloths. Thankfully we are coming out of this horrible situation with an intact Church. That would be hard to say about some of the evangelical Preachers whose churhes fell to nothing because of their actions.
I have more to say, but have an appmt this afternoon and must make up my face so I don't scare little children.
Lata,
Delta
Lata.
Delta


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helen55
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post #10  quote:

I find it ridiculous that we have to take down monuments and works of art on display in public places -- in my opinion any art should pass the Lemon Test.

Art is art....if we have a Picasso on the wall in the White House....isn't that going to influence people to believe in Cubism?? -- so in my opinion a Picasso should then also be removed -- it fails the Lemon Test.


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helen55
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post #11  quote:

I find it ridiculous that we have to take down monuments and works of art on display in public places -- in my opinion any art should pass the Lemon Test.

Art is art....if we had a Picasso on the wall in the White House....isn't that going to influence people to believe in Cubism and sway people away from Christianity and other religions because it provides such ungodly views of life and reality?? -- so in my opinion a Picasso should then also be removed -- it fails the Lemon Test....


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auntgoldie
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post #12  quote:

Helen: It is the phrase Moore "calling on all ?Christian people who love God? to come to Montgomery and join their blockade."
That is blatantly biased and anti-semetic. How come noone has responded to this horrendous remark? Does he mean that some Christian people don't love God? Does he mean only the Christian people? Why did he have to mention a faith at all? He's a neo-Nazi moron!!!!


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helen55
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post #13  quote:

AG - I see your completely valid point there...I did not read the article from the viewpoint of other religions...sorry!! ...I did not mean to offend...maybe he IS on some religious agenda and I should have studied his background better, I really don't know anything about what he stands for...didn't know he existed before I speed-read about him in these articles

I was just impressed by his willingness to get fired over the monument...for standing up for his beliefs in God...I do not know which religion he believes in...

And I am completely OK with Jews, I fully respect their religion, we do believe in the same God, and even if we did not, I would still respect them...


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post #14  quote:

Alabama Panel Suspends Ten Commandments Judge


ATLANTA (Reuters) - An Alabama commission that monitors judicial conduct on Friday suspended the chief justice of the state's Supreme Court over his defiance of a U.S. order to remove a Ten Commandments monument from the state courthouse.

Roy Moore, who has vowed to appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court (news - web sites) to keep the monument in public view, was suspended pending the review of a complaint that accuses him of misconduct for not meeting a midnight Wednesday deadline to remove the display, a representative of the state Judicial Inquiry Commission said. Moore, who was elected chief justice in late 2000, has been fighting to keep the two-ton granite monument in the court building in Montgomery since he had it installed two years ago.

A federal judge ruled the display must be moved because it violated a clause in the U.S. Constitution which bars the government from promoting religion.

Im not gonna put my total opinion of this in here....as I have one, but until I saw this above comment...Im just wondering something...

before the founders signed the Constitution they wrote "written in the year of our LORD 1787" ....doesnt Lord mean God?

What of the Declaration of Independence...that mentions the word God....

What about our money....doesnt your money say..."In God we Trust?"

Now, Im not gonna comment on his comment he made about Christians...but to say that maybe he is like me and doesnt know...do other religions follow the Ten Commandments, that his comment would be anti-semetic? I dont know...Im just asking though...

Do other religions follow the Ten Commandments?


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ouisch_odin
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post #15  quote:

The Ten Commandments are basically laws that just make good sense. Don't kill anyone. Don't steal their stuff. Don't commit adultery. It's pretty basic, isn't it?

I'm actually quite anti-religion, or at least anti-religious institutions, but even I can't see why it's a big deal. Who gives a damn? It's just a big rock with some laws in Biblical speak printed on it. Ignore it if you're not a fan. Stuff like "In God We Trust" or "under God, indivisible" is really general stuff that shouldn't even offend agnostic people like me. It's reallllly general and just means "I sure hope a higher power covers my butt!"

I don't think, however, that this should be used as an excuse to use government institutions to promote a specific religion, and I think that's what this is about now. Moore is a judge, and he knows how this system works. If he wins this case, it can be used as a precedent to allow religious symbols into arenas where it does not belong.

Let's think about this. Who here believes that people should not commit adultery? Okay, well, that could be made a law... after all, most people and their religions do think it's wrong, yeah? Kay, how about prohibition of alcohol? Well, many religions believe alcohol is bad, and it's been prohibited before, so not too hard to swallow. Okay, how about caffeine? Yes, there are religions out there that prohibit that, such as the LDS church. Are we going to make that a law? What about the Catholic decree that no one should use birth control? Okay, so now you see why this could start to get ridiculous.

You have to draw the line somewhere to prevent further trouble, and Moore is crossing that line. The monument needs to be removed simply to make the statement that religion DOES NOT run this government.


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auntgoldie
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post #16  quote:

Helen, I've known you for awhile now from different posts and I know you are a kind, understanding, non-biased person. I was just upset that man uses his judicial powers to inflict his religion on others, and the nerve of him calling all good "christians" who believe in God to come forth. Yes, the Ten Commandments are for everyone, so who in the H__l does he think he is calling on just one religion.


Ouisch, I couldn't have stated the point so eloquently.


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helen55
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post #17  quote:

quote:
Originally posted by ouisch_odin

....I sure hope a higher power covers my butt!"


A very good post OO!

I just love this quote from you brilliant....I'm sure EVERYONE can agree with that...

But what kind of a monument could we install to express this general hope we all have??


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auntgoldie
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post #18  quote:

What about the American Flag.

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helen55
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post #19  quote:

quote:
Originally posted by auntgoldie
What about the American Flag.


That soo funnyyy AG and it is sooo true tooooo

AG you are super brilliant


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auntgoldie
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The American Flag post #20  quote:

Thanks for the compliment Helen. I believe that's what the "founding fathers" really wanted. To create a home where everyone is equal and believes in the ideal of democracy.

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