What happened is not Ruben's fault. I am angry at Fox and Simon for fixing the show.......not Ruben. I think he probably even has an idea if he watches the tapes of the shows how he was pushed and Clay was dissed. But what can he do?......
NOTHING! But what we can do is let Fox know we don't like being duped so they can line their pockets with more cash....
Don't be a participant in next year's AI!!!!!!!
Support Clay in anything he does!!!!
That's all we can do.
You know it seems to me that Clay and Ruben will be doing a lot of talk shows and things together since they are both recording their album in New York and because their albums are coming out at the same time. I just think that Clay will do much better with his record sales, but we will just have to wait and see what is in store for these two "idols."
Even if Fox ever came clean and announced that they indeed riged the show, they can't and shouldn't change the outcome at this point. Ruben/Clay were both victims of Fox, AI greed.
The good that would come of a recount would be to insure next years show is on the up and up. The show has a tainted image and that's due to fox manipulating the votes. It has nothing to do with Ruben/Clay personally. But, do you really want to see Fox get away with this again next year? Because they are arrogant enough to believe they can. In fact, Fox seems quite pleased with itself and it's ability to manipulate media, voting, show outcome. People apparently are buying into the Fox hype that their vote counted, when in fact media industry isn't so sure that it did...Should they be allowed to run another rigged show next year? It's up to the viewers to decide.
Originally posted by soapyjeans Even if Fox ever came clean and announced that they indeed riged the show, they can't and shouldn't change the outcome at this point.
Customarily, results are final once the winner has been announced.
Ruben/Clay were both victims of Fox, AI greed.
Yes, and it is more of a disadvantage for Ruben than for Clay.
The good that would come of a recount would be to insure next years show is on the up and up. The show has a tainted image and that's due to fox manipulating the votes. It has nothing to do with Ruben/Clay personally. But, do you really want to see Fox get away with this again next year? Because they are arrogant enough to believe they can. In fact, Fox seems quite pleased with itself and it's ability to manipulate media, voting, show outcome.
A recount after the winner was announced, would only serve to hurt both Ruben and Clay. In fact, if I was in Clay's shoes and it was suggested ... I would refuse.
FOX/AI etc., already know this, and expect there will be a change in the voting "system" next time. My guess is they'll institute a pay-per-vote. Part of the plan, may have been sponsor motivated all along. AT+T was counting on AI to elevate profits, and they're probably still counting
People apparently are buying into the Fox hype that their vote counted, when in fact media industry isn't so sure that it did...Should they be allowed to run another rigged show next year? It's up to the viewers to decide.
Doubt many people are buying into it any longer. As said, bet next time they'll be making some "improvements" to ensure "voter confidence"
Originally posted by tricia317 What happened is not Ruben's fault. I am angry at Fox and Simon for fixing the show.......not Ruben. I think he probably even has an idea if he watches the tapes of the shows how he was pushed and Clay was dissed. But what can he do?......
NOTHING! But what we can do is let Fox know we don't like being duped so they can line their pockets with more cash....
Don't be a participant in next year's AI!!!!!!!
Support Clay in anything he does!!!!
That's all we can do.
I have to admit that I will most likely watch the show next time. What can I say? I like the show!
But I do agree that if Ruben does see the show ever, he will have to notice that things were slightly in his favor. His criticisms were hardly criticisms at all. And I remember, the very last show thinking "Wow, they are giving Ruben a LOT more air time then Clay..." It was like I knew the outcome before I saw it (Even though I refused to accept it) It just makes me sad because Ruben seems wonderful and it isnt fair to either of them! I mean, Ruben wins this contest and that is probably the highlight of his LIFE so far! But then afterwards Clay is topping the sales charts and his single isnt even out yet! Clay has tons of fan sites and message boards all about him! I hardly even see Ruben unless I go on American Idol's site. I just hope that after all of this "Clay should've won" hype, things will even out. I still want Clay at #1, but Ruben at a somewhat close 2nd!
Do the best with what you're given this aint dyin this is LIVIN!
This message is for those folks that keep insisting that ruben shouldn't have won, AI rigged the votes, Clay is the better singer, Clay is #1 Pre-sale CD on the charts, ruben will flop, etc...
But we are talking about longevity music career not # 1 pre-sales.
Ruben career in a lot of top people in the music business eyes has longevity b/c everyone loves him right now including the national media.
LET ME BREAK SOMETHING DOWN FOR YOU FOLKS WHO CAN"T GET OVER THE FACT THE RUBEN WON..." IT DOESN"T MATTER WHO HAS THE BETTER VOICE B/C RUBEN CAN SING!! The brother has a powerful voice, charisma, and a gentle teddy bear image, that will be on the charts for years to come and Clive Davis was no fool with regards to him getting ruben signed to J Records. Why do you think ruben wasn't signed to RCA like last year AI winner Kelly Clarkson?. Why did ruben sign with J records since he won this year? Clive Davis sees $$$$$ with ruben and that is why he signed him and is going to make Ruben the biggest selling act to come out of his new record label. You think you saw a lot of ruben before, just wait until his album gets ready to drop. Clive will have him everywhere just like he did with Alicia Keys,Santana and Whitney Houston and what he will be doing with Tamyra and Ruben. Alicia Keys sold 10 million albums and he will make sure Ruben and Tamyras CD does well. Clive knows to many people to let ruben fail and too many producers want to work with ruben.
This will be a state-of-art album. Clive has Tamyra signed to replace his old protege Whitney Houston and he now has his beloved Ruben to replace his best friend and protege Luther Vandross. Everyone who is someone is predicting ruben to be a superstar. He has fans everywhere from all ages and races. He
I just read today that every single top producers/song writer in the music business is calling Clive Davis to work with ruben....The top producers from Babyface, Jimmy Jam/Terry Lewis, The Neptunes, Timbaland/Missy Elliot, Diane Warren, and Rodney Jerkins and also Gospel sensation Yolanda Adams wants to do a duet. Also ruben is going to be on Tamyra upcoming debut album with the remake of IF THIS WORLD WERE MINE?
So all this mess about what Ruben can or can't do or clays sings better, needs to cease.......
Originally posted by Kinona Clay will outlast ruben?
Don't think so..
I do.
This message is for those folks that keep insisting that ruben shouldn't have won, AI rigged the votes, Clay is the better singer, Clay is #1 Pre-sale CD on the charts, ruben will flop, etc...
But we are talking about longevity music career not # 1 pre-sales.
kinona ... we have been talking about Clay's longevity v. Ruben's longevity all over this board.
Ruben career in a lot of top people in the music business eyes has longevity b/c everyone loves him right now including the national media.
And the same is true for Clay.
LET ME BREAK SOMETHING DOWN FOR YOU FOLKS WHO CAN"T GET OVER THE FACT THE RUBEN WON..." IT DOESN"T MATTER WHO HAS THE BETTER VOICE B/C RUBEN CAN SING!!
No need to shout !
Clay can sing, ( boy can he) and are you saying that it doesn't matter if Clay has the better voice ?
The brother has a powerful voice, charisma, and a gentle teddy bear image, that will be on the charts for years to come ...
Well, um ... little brother Clay has a VERY powerful voice, and an image that appeals to the masses from many angles. From every skinny kid to their grandma's and everything in-between.
... Clive Davis was no fool with regards to him getting ruben signed to J Records. Why do you think ruben wasn't signed to RCA like last year AI winner Kelly Clarkson?. Why did ruben sign with J records since he won this year? Clive Davis sees $$$$$ with ruben and that is why he signed him and is going to make Ruben the biggest selling act to come out of his new record label.
you mean that "no fool" Clive Davis who presented Kelly with her platinum plaque for her efforts on RCA Records ... which he oversees ?
You think you saw a lot of ruben before, just wait until his album gets ready to drop. Clive will have him everywhere just like he did with Alicia Keys,Santana and Whitney Houston and what he will be doing with Tamyra and Ruben. Alicia Keys sold 10 million albums and he will make sure Ruben and Tamyras CD does well. Clive knows to many people to let ruben fail and too many producers want to work with ruben.
Sad statement that someone has to "make sure" Rube doesn't fail.
Many, can never be too many, producers want to work with Clay.
This will be a state-of-art album. Clive has Tamyra signed to replace his old protege Whitney Houston and he now has his beloved Ruben to replace his best friend and protege Luther Vandross. Everyone who is someone is predicting ruben to be a superstar. He has fans everywhere from all ages and races.
Man ... replacements ? How sad is THAT ?
Clay is an original.
I just read today that every single top producers/song writer in the music business is calling Clive Davis to work with ruben....The top producers from Babyface, Jimmy Jam/Terry Lewis, The Neptunes, Timbaland/Missy Elliot, Diane Warren, and Rodney Jerkins and also Gospel sensation Yolanda Adams wants to do a duet.
I hear you there. Clay's strong and clear voice is almost too strong for duets, isn't it ? Guess he'll have to work on it.
Also ruben is going to be on Tamyra upcoming debut album with the remake of IF THIS WORLD WERE MINE ?
Well I hope for both their sakes that Tamyra's perfomance on the final show isn't an indication of her growth.
So all this mess about what Ruben can or can't do or clays sings better, needs to cease.......
kinona, much of what you have posted is not about what Rube can do, but about what other people can do, and will be doing for him.
This special attention is Rube's prize for being declared the AI2. Clay has a recording contract, but will not "automatically" get all the benefits that the AI2 title brings.
The AI marketeers see that maybe Rube has the stuff for some quick big bucks, so they will put the push behind Rube now.
My opinion is that Clay has the goods for longevity.
Let's just see what each does individually with the opportunities given.
05-31-2003 04:55 PM
Even if Fox ever came clean and announced that they indeed riged the show, they can't and shouldn't change the outcome at this point. Ruben/Clay were both victims of Fox, AI greed. 
I just hope that after all of this "Clay should've won" hype, things will even out. I still want Clay at #1, but Ruben at a somewhat close 2nd! 
you mean that "no fool" Clive Davis who presented Kelly with her platinum plaque for her efforts on RCA Records ... which he oversees ? 
