US leaders are claiming that violence in civil war in Iraq has fallen because of military's"surge" policy.
Baghdad residents disagree, saying that the uneasy calm has arisen because they now live in a divided city.
The separation of religious groups in the civil war has brought a semblance of calm to Baghdad, but Iraqis see this outcome the uncertain consequence of the (U.S.) divide-and-rule policy.
" I would like to agree with the idea that violence in Iraq has decreased and that everthing is fine.
But the TRUTH is far bitter. All that has happened is A DRAMITIC CHANGE IN THE DEMOGRAPHIC MAP OF IRAQ." Gen. Waleed al-Ubaidy
Well I don't know about segregation being the reason for the drop in violence as there is always a way round the areas that are segregated. I also doubt it's all down to the surge whats more than likley is that the fighters have adopted the cat and mouse tactic they hide away, sit back or even leave Iraq until the surge is over and when the troop numbers drop they come out of hiding and raise hell again.
lodgebo01 said this in post #2 : Well I don't know about segregation being the reason for the drop in violence as there is always a way round the areas that are segregated. I also doubt it's all down to the surge whats more than likley is that the fighters have adopted the cat and mouse tactic they hide away, sit back or even leave Iraq until the surge is over and when the troop numbers drop they come out of hiding and raise hell again.
Now you are saying the people who are living in the middle the sectarian civil war are not telling the truth?
Your arrogant statements can only be match by your ignirant ones.
No what I am saying is that you can always get around seggregation people have always done it in the past and will continue to do it. You never stated what kind of seggregation we are talking about here a curfew, a brick wall, human wall, checkpoint how are people seggregated. Anyway I stand by what I said it's more ;liklely to be a cat and mouse type situation as opposed to seggregation or the surge or anything else for that matter. Anyone know the kill numbers for the Americans during this surge? I am willing to bet it's low and thats very telling.
lodgebo01 said this in post #4 : No what I am saying is that you can always get around seggregation people have always done it in the past and will continue to do it. You never stated what kind of seggregation we are talking about here a curfew, a brick wall, human wall, checkpoint how are people seggregated. Anyway I stand by what I said it's more ;liklely to be a cat and mouse type situation as opposed to seggregation or the surge or anything else for that matter. Anyone know the kill numbers for the Americans during this surge? I am willing to bet it's low and thats very telling.
Continue to hear only want you want to hear. That is your promblem. All we can do is provide you the information.
“Baghdad has been torn into two cities and many towns and neighborhoods,” said Ahmad Ali, chief engineer from one of Baghdad’s municipalities. “There is now the Shia Baghdad and the Sunni Baghdad to start with. Then, each is divided into little town-like pieces of the hundreds of thousands who had to leave their homes.”
[...]
Many areas of Baghdad that were previously mixed are now totally Shia or totally Sunni. Militias and death squads effected this change by carrying out sectarian cleansing campaigns in mixed neighborhoods.
Just to clarify I am not denying that there is some kind of sggregation I am just saying that I doubt it's the main cause for the decrease in violence same as I doubt the surge is the reason either.
In fact if you look at MO for the surge you will see that this seggregation is a failure for the surge - to create stability and security enabling the Iraqi government to enact lasting political solutions and foster genuine reconciliation and cooperation between Sunnis, Shias, and Kurds.
In fact if you look at that staement then the surge is failing there is no guarnteed peace or stability, the Iraqi government are still at each others throats and the 3 main groups still want nothing to do with each other so where exactly is the success that Fox keeps telling us happening?
lodgebo01 said this in post #8 : Just to clarify I am not denying that there is some kind of sggregation I am just saying that I doubt it's the main cause for the decrease in violence same as I doubt the surge is the reason either.
In fact if you look at MO for the surge you will see that this seggregation is a failure for the surge - to create stability and security enabling the Iraqi government to enact lasting political solutions and foster genuine reconciliation and cooperation between Sunnis, Shias, and Kurds.
In fact if you look at that staement then the surge is failing there is no guarnteed peace or stability, the Iraqi government are still at each others throats and the 3 main groups still want nothing to do with each other so where exactly is the success that Fox keeps telling us happening?
Because a controlled media, we don't know what's going on in Iraq. Americans only know the stories we are allowed to see, after story has benn edited to support government agenda.
But their are other journalist and sources to get more information.
Nothing as such but when you use it as your only source of information and assume everything they say is gospel then there is a problem. Alomost all paers have an agenda Malcolm even final call you need to look at multiple sources and see if you get a recurring theme from all of them.
lodgebo01 said this in post #12 : Nothing as such but when you use it as your only source of information and assume everything they say is gospel then there is a problem. Alomost all paers have an agenda Malcolm even final call you need to look at multiple sources and see if you get a recurring theme from all of them.
FinalCall News will use any source to post FACTS on any topic. There only agenda is trying to get to the TRUTH.
Here is solution: Since YOU have a promblem with FINAL, just ignore posts.
Or I could just look for sources of my own to create a more balanced arguement. See facts are fun but Final call gives more of an opinion, facts are only really useful when you back them up with evidence. For example take this paticular story Malcolm, they say the surge is working because of seggeregation now that's thier stroy but they don't give any reasons to back up that claim and you take it as fact because fianl call said so.
Now I had a wee look at the story and here is what final call failed to tell you
1. There is seggregation but self imposed by the people, we know the Iraqi and coaltion forces want a multi cultural Iraq they have stated it many times before but we also know that certain troubles have led to people reverting back to almost tribal groupings.
2. The surge is not working. Plain and simple check the Mo ( it's one of my earliier posts) and not one of the objectives is being met
3. The insurgents may have taken a step back to wait for the heat of the surge to go down a little. Most major coaltion pushes see a downturn in trouble for a week or a couple of months until that paticualr push is over then you get a return to the violence. Now as this is a prolonged push you may see the terrorists lying low for a little longer. The fact the US can't or won't tell us how many terrorists have been killed or more importantly captured suggests the numbers are very low and maybe thats because they are not engaging them anymore.
Now none of the above is in your story but it's all relevent if you want the whole picture now I have tried to give a little evidence to back up what I said but if you don't belive me just reserach it yourself. You won't find any stories of coalition forced seggregation or Iraqi governments who want seggregation, you can find the MO for the surge pretty easily and just look back at majot battle in Iraq or even Afghanistan to look at how the terroists work in these situations.
Of course you won't you probably will come back with some lame answer only a few lines long but hey evidence shows that what you do.
01-17-2008 05:25 AM
