The 15 sailor have been released by Iran. Now from this you can say a few things about Iran, the UK and these rest of the worlds powers.
Iran can claim to have won the Propaganda war as they were to only ones playing it. From the beginning of this conflict the Iranians knew that they wouldn't be able to hold the British sailor for too long and so decided to use them in an effect and well constructed propaganda campaign.
Britain can claim to have won the diplomatic war. From the beginning of this conflict the British were calm, never changed their story and talked peacefully with Iran for the release of their personnell. When Iran seem to ignore Britain the UK went to powers that could help, the EU and the UN.
The EU and the UN can claim to have done their job.
And the US can claim to have been the deciding factor. I dont think it is a coincident that only a few days after the US president demanded the release of the British personnell that Iran, who previously had seem to have no intention to, released the Sailors.
Now the aftermath of this conflict will be that Amedinjad and his party will be heroes to a number of Iranians but to the rest of the world they have just put themselves in a worse situation polotically than they were in before this whole affair started.
"there's only one way to win a war: shout, shout, and shout again!" - The Duke of Wellington ((Blackadder - Stephen Fry))
White Tiger said this in post #76 : The 15 sailor have been released by Iran. Now from this you can say a few things about Iran, the UK and these rest of the worlds powers.
Iran can claim to have won the Propaganda war as they were to only ones playing it. From the beginning of this conflict the Iranians knew that they wouldn't be able to hold the British sailor for too long and so decided to use them in an effect and well constructed propaganda campaign.
Britain can claim to have won the diplomatic war. From the beginning of this conflict the British were calm, never changed their story and talked peacefully with Iran for the release of their personnell. When Iran seem to ignore Britain the UK went to powers that could help, the EU and the UN.
The EU and the UN can claim to have done their job.
And the US can claim to have been the deciding factor. I dont think it is a coincident that only a few days after the US president demanded the release of the British personnell that Iran, who previously had seem to have no intention to, released the Sailors.
Now the aftermath of this conflict will be that Amedinjad and his party will be heroes to a number of Iranians but to the rest of the world they have just put themselves in a worse situation polotically than they were in before this whole affair started.
White Tiger said this in post #76 :Now the aftermath of this conflict will be that Amedinjad and his party will be heroes to a number of Iranians but to the rest of the world they have just put themselves in a worse situation polotically than they were in before this whole affair started.
Not necessarily. This could reflect far worse on the US. The whole world watched the British sailors and marines being treated well during their captivity. The repercussions of this incident could well cast a light on how the US handles prisoners it has taken and is holding in its so called "war on terror", which Bush uses as a licence to ignore any law or rules he sees as inconvenient.
No-one has forgotten the horrendous images from Abu Ghraib. And Bush thinks labeling prisoners "enemy combatant" means people arrested by the US have no rights, are not entitled to be told why they've been arrested or have contact with family, and allowing no legal representation. Then there's the not so small matter of Bush's secret extraordinary rendition flights sending prisoners to be tortured in centres in the eastern block and middle east.
Is the comparison fair? It doesn't matter, people are still going to make it.
See I don't think that it had that musch to do with Bush at all Iran rarely pays attention they were hardly going to start now are they? I think a lot of talk went on through the backchannels and that is what ultimatley got the guys out of there.
Intresting though that Amedinjad made sure the Sailors recived the ultimate humilation I mean making them where the same suits as him in public was going a bit to far in my opinion.
I'm not giving Bush credit for getting the release of these sailors but merely saying that Iran are afraid of the US. The US tend to act on impulse in international affairs and there are always people in America who will call for instant action as opposed to calm diplomacy.
Iran knows this as the US recently went to war in Iraq on impulse.
Iran also knows that the British are more, as an expert on Sky news said, politically astute to affairs in the middle-east and were more likely to do as we did and go through the political channels rather than threaten Iran as the US would have done.
As anti-American and anti-Bush as Armadinejad and his regeme are they will not risk open war or hostilities with the US. They know that the US are big players in the UN and very important to World affairs and while they dont like the US they know they cannot afford to have the US totally against them.
While Britain is one of the big players in the UN and important to World affairs Iran knows that Britain is more reserved in political affairs in the Gulf and probably realised that they would have a better chance of manipulating British personnell to their own means rather than US personnell due to the difference in the US and UK's political stand to things in the middle-east.
"there's only one way to win a war: shout, shout, and shout again!" - The Duke of Wellington ((Blackadder - Stephen Fry))
Royal Navy personnel seized by Iran were blindfolded, bound and held in isolation during their 13 days in captivity, the crew have said. They were lined up while weapons were cocked, making them "fear the worst", one of the 15 freed sailors revealed.
The crew were told that if they did not admit they were in Iranian waters when captured that they faced seven years in prison, a press conference heard.
Opposing their captors was "not an option," they said.
And after the 15 marines and sailors were seized they were subjected to random interrogation and rough handling, and faced constant psychological pressure, they said.
The navy has already begun a review of the circumstances surrounding the incident.
Royal Marine Captain Chris Air, 25, from Altrincham, Cheshire, said they had seconds to make a decision when confronted by the Iranians while carrying out a routine operation.
"We are aware that many people have questioned why we allowed ourselves to be taken in the first place and why we allowed ourselves to be shown by the Iranian authorities on television. Let me be absolutely clear, from the outset it was very apparent that fighting back was simply not an option".
"Had we chosen to do so then many of us would not be standing here today. Of that I have no doubts".
Had they resisted there would have been a fight they could not have won, he said.
"Fighting back would have caused a major international incident and an escalation of tension within the region," he said.
Two of the crew read out a prepared statement to the press conference at the Royal Marines Barracks at Chivenor, in north Devon.
Lieutenant Felix Carman, 26, of Swansea, south Wales, said the sailors and marines were on an operation on 23 March, 1.7 nautical miles from Iranian waters, when they were captured.
Cpt Chris Air said the crew had made it clear they were on a "routine operation allowed under a UN mandate" but the Iranians had a "planned intent."
"Some of the Iranian sailors were becoming deliberately aggressive and unstable."
Their boat was surrounded by six boats and rammed and they were trained with heavy machine guns and weapons.
The officer in charge Lt Carman said they were taken to a prison in Tehran where they were stripped and dressed in pyjamas.
They were kept in stone cells, sleeping on blankets and held in isolation until the last few nights and frequently interrogated.
Lt Carman said they were given two choices.
"If we admitted we had strayed, we would be on a plane back to the UK soon. If we didn't we faced up to seven years in prison".
The only woman in the group, Leading Seaman Faye Turney, believed for at least four days that she was the only one still being held.
"Like all of us she has been exploited," Cpt Air said.
Royal Marine Joe Tindell told how they feared for their lives in prison.
"We had a blindfold and plastic cuffs, hands behind our backs, heads against the wall. Basically there were weapons cocking. Someone, I'm not sure who, someone said, I quote 'lads, lads I think we're going to get executed'."
"After that comment someone was sick and as far as I was concerned he had just had his throat cut."
Lt Carman said they were only allowed to gather for a few hours together, in the full glare of Iranian media.
He said they only learned they were going to be released when they watched the Iranian president on TV.
"There was a huge moment of elation," he said.
Iranian TV has said it expected some of the British sailors would come under pressure from the UK government when they returned home to change their story.
The navy's review will look at the the circumstances surrounding the incident and the wider rules of engagement for UK forces operating in the area.
"there's only one way to win a war: shout, shout, and shout again!" - The Duke of Wellington ((Blackadder - Stephen Fry))
04-05-2007 12:43 PM
