Chat or Talk in the INReview Discussion Forum Chat or Talk in the INReview Discussion Forum
Support INReview. Please visit our sponsors and shop.
 
register chat shopping members links refer search home
INReview INReview > Hot Topics > Post-9/11 Era > 9/11 fact and fiction > 9/11: What struck the Pentagon?
Search this Thread:
  Print Version | Email Page | Bookmark | Subscribe to Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread   
Staff
Marc Flemming
Renovator

offline
Registered: Jan 2003
Local time: 10:53 PM
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 3663

9/11: What struck the Pentagon? post #1  quote:



Before reading, please watch this video: http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm


Comments on the Pentagon Strike
By Laura Knight-Jadczyk

PART 1:

Flight 77 took off at 8:20 a.m.

The pilot had his last routine communication with the control tower at 8:50 a.m. "At 9:09 a.m., being unable to reach the plane by radar, the Indianapolis air controllers warned of a possible crash," the Washington Post reported. Vice-President Dick Cheney would later explain that the terrorists had "turned off the transponder, which led to a later report that a plane had gone down over Ohio, but it really hadn't." [Meet the Press, NBC, 16 Sept 2001]

On 12 September it was learned that the transponder had been cut off at about 8:55 a.m., rendering the plane invisible to civilian air controllers. During this period of invisibility, the plane was said to have made a U turn back to Washington. This is, of course, an assumption. The information that the plane turned around has no known source.

The problem is: turning off the transponder, under the conditions that prevailed that day, would have been the best way of raising an alert.

The procedures are very strict in the case of a problem with a transponder, both on civilian and military aircraft. The FAA regulations describe exactly how to proceed when a transponder is not functioning properly: the control tower should enter into radio contact at once with the pilot and, if it fails, immediately warn the military who would then send fighters to establish visual contact with the crew. [see FAA regulations: http://faa.gov/ATpubs]

The interruption of a transponder also directly sets off an alert with the military body responsible for air defenses of the United States and Canada, NORAD.

The transponder is the plane's identity card. An aircraft that disposes of this identity card is IMMEDIATELY monitored, AUTOMATICALLY.

quote:
"If an object has not been identified in less than two minutes or appears suspect, it is considered to be an eventual threat. Unidentified planes, planes in distress and planes we suspect are being used for illegal activities can then be intercepted by a fighter from NORAD. [NORAD spokesman: http://www.airforce.dnd.ca/athomedocs/athome1e_f.htm]

See also Facing Terror Attack's Aftermath , Boston Globe, where you will read: "Snyder, the NORAD spokesman, said its fighters routinely intercept aircraft."]


Thus, according to the official version, considering the conditions that prevailed on September 11, 2001, the "terrorists" actually gave the alert that SHOULD have led to almost instant interception FORTY minutes before the plane struck the Pentagon.

In certain regions, ari traffic contrllers do have radars, called "primaries," that are able to detect movement in the air. But, the radars they normally use are called "secondaries" and are limited to recording signals emitted by the transponders of airplanes which tell them the registration, altitude, etc. Turning off the transponder permits an aircraft to vanish from these "secondary" radars. Such an aircraft will only appear on "primary" radars. According to the FAA, the air traffic controllers did not have access to primary radars in Ohio.

quote:
See: Pentagon Crash Highlights a Radar Gap , where you will read: "The airliner that slammed into the Pentagon on Sept. 11 disappeared from controllers' radar screens for at least 30 minutes -- in part because it was hijacked in an area of limited radar coverage. [...]

The aircraft, traveling from Dulles International Airport to Los Angeles, was hijacked sometime between 8:50 a.m. -- when air traffic controllers made their last routine contact with the pilot -- and 8:56, when hijackers turned off the transponder, which reports the plane's identity, altitude and speed to controllers' radar screens.

The airliner crashed into the Pentagon at 9:41 a.m., about 12 minutes after controllers at Dulles sounded an alert that an unidentified aircraft was headed toward Washington at high speed.

The answers to the mystery of the aircraft's disappearance begin with the fact that the hijacking took place in an area served by only one type of radar, FAA officials confirmed. Although this radar is called a "secondary" system, it is the type used almost exclusively today in air traffic control. It takes an aircraft's identification, destination, speed and altitude from the plane's transponder and displays it on a controller's radar screen.

"Primary" radar is an older system. It bounces a beam off an aircraft and tells a controller only that a plane is aloft -- but does not display its type or altitude. The two systems are usually mounted on the same tower. Primary radar is normally used only as a backup, and is usually turned off by controllers handling aircraft at altitudes above 18,000 feet because it clutters their screens.

All aircraft flying above 18,000 feet are required to have working transponders. If a plane simply disappears from radar screens, most controllers can quickly switch on the primary system, which should display a small plus sign at the plane's location, even if the aircraft's transponder is not working.

But the radar installation near Parkersburg, W. Va., was built with only secondary radar -- called "beacon-only" radar. That left the controller monitoring Flight 77 at the Indianapolis center blind when the hijackers apparently switched off the aircraft's transponder, sources said. "


The only effect, then, of turning off the transponder at that precise point was to make the plane invisible to only CIVILIAN aviation authorities. One wonders how the "terrorists" knew that this act would make them invisible to the civilian air traffic controllers. Again, under the conditions prevailing that day, and as a general routine, turning off the transponder SHOULD have brought the aircraft to the direct attention and scrutiny of the Military Defense Systems of the United States AUTOMATICALLY. It is therefore a near certainty that, at all times, it was visible and monitored by the Military.

According to the statement of General Myers, the military waited three quarters of an hour before ordering fighters to take off. [Senate hearing, 13 Sept. 2001]

Two days later, on 15 September, NORAD issued a contradictory press release. It said that it hadn't been informed of the hijacking of flight 77 until 9:24 a.m. and had then immediately given orders to two F-16s to take off from Langley, 105 miles from the Pentagon, instead of Saint Andrews, only 10 miles from the Pentagon. They were in the air by 9:30, much too late... the object that impacted the Pentagon arrived at 9:37.

This version puts all the blame on the FAA for waiting.

But this is implausible due to the established procedures that were automatic.

The question that needs to be asked, considering all that WAS known at that claimed "late moment" of awareness is: why were fighter jets sent instead of a missile?

The fact is, independently of the interception of flight 77, the crisis situation that existed that day demanded maximum air defense protection over Washington. This activity would have fallen to Saint Andrews Air Force Base, just as General Eberhart, CO of NORAD had already activated the SCATANA plan and had taken control of the New York airspace in order to position fighters there.

For the military, from the moment they were alerted of flight 77s disappearance, which was, indeed, the moment the transponders were turned off, and NOT when the FAA supposedly got around to calling them, it was not a question of speculating that they were dealing with a mechanical failure. The Facts on the Ground were rather precise: shortly after two airliners were flown into the WTC towers, the transponder of another plane was cut off and the pilot failed to respond to radio contact. The job of the military could not have been clearer: shoot down the plane that was claimed to have been headed for Washington.

These facts show clearly that the U.S. Military had NO INTENTION of shooting down whatever was heading for the Pentagon despite the menace it represented.

On 16 September 2001, Dick Cheney tried to justify the military's failure by claiming that the shooting down of a civilian airplane would be a "decision left up to the president." He played on the sympathy of the American people, saying that the president just couldn't take such a decision hastily because "the lives of American citizens were at stake."

However, Cheney's claims are disingenuous. He equated the interception of the aircraft with the decision to shoot it down.

Interception is merely establishing visual contact, giving orders with light signals, and being ready to take action. A shoot down means that the fighters are already positioned to receive the order.

Further, it is incorrect that this decision can only be made by the President. The interception of a suspect civilian aircraft by fighters is automatic and does not require any kind of political decision making. It should have taken place on 11 September when the transponder was cut off. The fighters should have taken off immediately - unless they were ordered to "stand down."

Again, let me reiterate the fact that the flight 77 was invisible ONLY to CIVILIAN aviation authorities. The fact that the transponders were turned off automatically alerts military air defense.

To be continued...

PART 2: Anti-Missile Batteries Operate Automatically in the Area


Old Post 04-04-2006 11:42 PM
Click here to Send Marc Flemming a Private Message View Marc Flemming's Journal Visit Marc Flemming's homepage! Find more posts by Marc Flemming Add Marc Flemming to your buddy list Reply w/Quote

fruit
Enthusiast

offline
Registered: Mar 2006
Local time: 06:53 AM
Location: UK
Posts: 92

post #2  quote:

Is it also possible that the pilots turned off the transponders 'knowing' the military would intervene ? We do not know what went on in the cockpits but i think we have to presume that the pilots tried to do something constructive.

My other guess about this is that the hijackers (the ones we were told about) were not the ones flying the planes. I'm not even convinced they thought they were on a suicide mission.

If fighters were stood down, i think this info will come to light and that said, i think anyone giving that order would know it would come to light also. I cant imagine anyone taking that decision, they would really be dropping themselves in it if they did. My final guess is that, if it ever comes out, the military didnt realise they were under attack but how terrorists or the government can pull that deception off is beyond my guessing at the moment.


Old Post 04-05-2006 10:22 PM
Click here to Send fruit a Private Message Find more posts by fruit Add fruit to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore fruit REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

Staff
Sayzak
Chimerical Visionary

offline
Registered: May 2003
Local time: 12:53 AM
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3868

post #3  quote:

If the US had anything to do with the attacks, then I would have to believe we were being held hostage by a shadow government. If we're talking conspiracies here, let's talk seriousely. I don't think that in meerly one year's time the current administration could pull this off. If anyone other than terrorists are to blame for this, you have to look at everyone who has held presidancy over the last 30 years.


Please pardon my pseudo-intellectuaphilisophicalismysiticality.
Old Post 04-07-2006 04:03 AM
Click here to Send Sayzak a Private Message View Sayzak's Journal Find more posts by Sayzak Add Sayzak to your buddy list Send an AIM message to Sayzak Sayzak's MSN ID is blue3eleven@msn.com Reply w/Quote

fruit
Enthusiast

offline
Registered: Mar 2006
Local time: 06:53 AM
Location: UK
Posts: 92

post #4  quote:

And if terrorists are to blame, we also to have to look at everyone. How its possible that the best defence system in the world, one that is designed to respond instantly to transponders being turned off, failed to react.......4 times......over a long period of time. We need to look at who has funded people and supplied people with products and knowledge to carry out terrorism. We need to lokk at information held by security services and decisions based on that info. So yes, I agree, we need to look at the US government over the last 30 years. Realy, really, closely.

Old Post 04-07-2006 11:54 AM
Click here to Send fruit a Private Message Find more posts by fruit Add fruit to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore fruit REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote
Time: 06:53 AM Post New Thread   
  Print Version | Email Page | Bookmark | Subscribe to Thread
INReview INReview > Hot Topics > Post-9/11 Era > 9/11 fact and fiction > 9/11: What struck the Pentagon?
Search this Thread:
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
Forum Policies Explained
 
Rate This Thread:

< - INReview.com >

Copyright ©2000 - 2007, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
Page generated in 0.25535011 seconds (94.80% PHP - 5.20% MySQL) with 45 queries.

ADVERTISEMENTS
Support This Site! Shop @ INReview!


© 2007, INReview.com.   Popular Forums  My Favorites All Forums   Web Hosting and Web Design by Psyphire.
INReview.com: Back to Home