Lawless said this in post #31 : You aren't guaranteed life, until you're conceived. Therefore, death is guaranteed to each person, once given life.
Although I'm not arguing with your own personal definition of an absolute, I was presuming its meaning was'nt merely a guaranteed process as it relates to this discussion. I can understand the idea of finality that death conjures up but I dont feel that it should be obvious to apply it to an idea of God, the universe or (non life/inorganic) existence.
If we are talking soley about the human experience, then I agree that the process of death is guaranteed, along with other process that go hand in hand with life. As for the universe, there is no evidence of energy ceasing to exist or being created, only 'being' in ever changing forms.....and moving through a process. Even though all life may eventually die, that is not really evidence that energy ceases to be or that nothing can ever be.
We're talking like these are the only two options though. Either the universe has a beginning and an ending, or else it's always existed and always will. However, what if there's a third posibility we haven't considered and can't possibly comprehend?
"I'm for it so we can put Nuclear power plants up there, and then beam the power back to earth on a laser beam." ~ Whidden
I'd say a third possibility is as possible as a beginning and end, no evidence and beyond our experience. Still, existence has to be factored into any theory so it cant be totally incomprehensible.
I suppose you could have constant oscillations between something and nothing, where the nothing doesnt precede the something thus destroying the potential for something to follow.
A "CIRCLE" is what the book of the prophet Ezra describes human existence. The prophet asked why God did not create men all at once, and judge them all at the same time. The creator is after all God, and he can do as he pleases. The book supposedly related God's answer as creation cannot go faster than its creator, and that things behave as if in a circle.
Catholics celebrate the start of the Lenten season with Ash Wednesday, reminding the faithful of the human condition: Dust thou art and dust returneth... or ashes to ashes, dust to dust.... then climax into the Lord's passion and death on the cross - a reminder of what our human life leads to.
Perhaps it is safe to say that once dead, we all cease to be mortal.... Our bodies are recycled back to the soil and atmosphere by decomposer organisms. However, the belief (philosophy) is that our spirits would either enjoy eternal life or suffer eternal torment.....
The Spiritual has to be discussed apart from the Physics of human existence because the Laws that affect the spiritual are contrary to the Physical Laws, as Jesus had warned. In this world, our bodies deteriorate after reaching a peak.... whereas our spirits grow and mature and flourish, and live on.... or die, and suffer disgrace depending on the choices we take. (Let us treat knowledge and wisdom as spiritual rather than physical.... but also be aware that Jesus demonstrated how the spiritual can command the physical and even alter the rules)
In Physics, the second law of thermodynamics offers an explanation to what happens when free energy when released - the reason for changes and entropy. Possibly this argument can also explain why men age, and why they die. Or even why many things in the human environment cannot be in a stable state indefinitely as environmental enthusiasts wish they are. Plenty of reason to argue and this site offers more explanations in this direction.
Many questions were asked in the ancient Hindu texts
about the nature of Parama Atama (infinite soul, or
Almighty) and Atma (soul). In the olden days, Gurus
used to put these questions to disciples to test their
knowledge.
What is the constituent material of Parama Atama? All
materials are subject to decay and annihilation, Parama
Atama is above the influence of decay and annihilation.
He is eternal.
Then is Parama Atama a void? In terms of material
characteristics, Parama Atama is void (Soonya).
Can this lead to the logic that Parama Atama is not
there? No. Parama Atama is there. He is consciousness,
the infinite consciousness. The Atma which is piece of
Parama Atama, according to Advaita Vedanta, is personal
consciousness. Soul was created in the likeness of
Infinite Soul.
Since Atma is only a minute piece of Paramatma, is it
subjected to annihilation? No. Atma is also eternal.
"How does God have no beginning??
He is the creator. He is beyond the human concepts of
'begining'. How can the finite understand the begining
of the infinite?
"Does God really know everything? If he created us to
give us the option of driving him away or accepting
him, then there must have been some point when he
didn't know what we were going to do right? otherwise
it wouldn't have been free choice."
All souls have passed through many incarnations. In a
life time, when a person chooses his fee choice, He
will understand all the higher philosophical problems
associated with it. In the next life, his Karma will
force him to be a believer. It is somewhat like failing
a school examination, repeating the year to learn
better and then pass it.
Here are some ideas about God and the creation of the universe (I'm going with the crows):
"The Big Bang model of the universe's birth is the most widely accepted model that has ever been conceived for the scientific origin of everything." Stuart Robbins, Case Western Reserve University
"Many once believed that the universe had no beginning or end and was truly infinite. Through the inception of the Big Bang theory, however, no longer could the universe be considered infinite. The universe was forced to take on the properties of a finite phenomenon, possessing a history and a beginning." Chris LaRocco and Blair Rothstein, University of Michigan
“The universe of space and time is an illusion perpetuated by a source than cannot be understood in intellectual terms because those terms are part of the illusion. This is hinted at by the fact that the intellectual mind cannot comprehend the concept of “nothing” out of which the universe is largely purported to have been created. The question of when the universe began is beside the point because time is part of the illusion. The illusion that comprises the universe, constantly changes, but its source is infinite. A common designation of the source is God or All-That-Is , the latter referring to the entire illusion plus the source. The illusion of the universe is actually being freshly created at every conceivable point, in every conceivable instant making time as it goes.” The Crows in the woods.
"Many once believed that the universe had no beginning or end and was truly infinite. Through the inception of the Big Bang theory, however, no longer could the universe be considered infinite. The universe was forced to take on the properties of a finite phenomenon, possessing a history and a beginning." Chris LaRocco and Blair Rothstein, University of Michigan
QUOTE]
Notice how the universe had to change in order to accommodate the opinion of science.
This is a question I had never thought of before this morning. I heard it on the radio and it honestly struck me as odd.
Is it impossible for God to lie? I know the verse Hebrews 6:18
quote:
That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
in some sense states that he cannot lie, but doesn't that put a limitation on God? If he is truely omnipotent, then how could it be that anything is actually impossible for the Alpha and the Omega?
I'm asking this as a Christian. I have many questions about the Bible, and I imagine that would be an entirely different thread. However I think this belongs here.
So, what's the thought here? Could anything be impossible for God?
It's a good question, almost a circular argument though. It's like the old Simpsons quote: "could God microwave a burrito so hot even He could not eat it."
When you are dealing with the almighty and everything is possible does that mean something that contradicts the previous statement could be true?
sometimes we attribute human qualities to God when we really shouldn't. Some of it is a natural tendency for humans to anthromorphize everything, sometimes it's a metaphor for greater understanding, and sometimes it's just impossible for us to get outside ourselves. There are some things where we are created in God's image, but He is seperate from us, we can't understand some things.
Something like the "ability" to lie is thinking of things in human terms. God is what He is. If there is a God, and if it is the God of the Bible, then God is by nautre a God of Truth, and whether He "can" or "can't" lie is semantics... GOD AIN'T GONNA LIE.
If you hear something that illuminates, liberates, and makes things clearer for you, then it is of God. If there is something that decieves you, that sets a trap for you, then you know it is of Satan.
You don't even have to believe in God/Satan Heaven/Hell for what I said to be true. It doesn't matter what your individual beliefs are, the Truth is good and makes people understand, lies are bad and cause confusion and strife.
Dekka00 said this in post #42 : sometimes we attribute human qualities to God when we really shouldn't. Some of it is a natural tendency for humans to anthromorphize everything, sometimes it's a metaphor for greater understanding, and sometimes it's just impossible for us to get outside ourselves. There are some things where we are created in God's image, but He is seperate from us, we can't understand some things.
Something like the "ability" to lie is thinking of things in human terms. God is what He is. If there is a God, and if it is the God of the Bible, then God is by nautre a God of Truth, and whether He "can" or "can't" lie is semantics... GOD AIN'T GONNA LIE.
If you hear something that illuminates, liberates, and makes things clearer for you, then it is of God. If there is something that decieves you, that sets a trap for you, then you know it is of Satan.
You don't even have to believe in God/Satan Heaven/Hell for what I said to be true. It doesn't matter what your individual beliefs are, the Truth is good and makes people understand, lies are bad and cause confusion and strife.
That I get. What I don't get is how the Bible could state that it is impossible for God to do anything. Not that He would, but there is to be nothing outside of the abilities of God, so He could. I know He wouldn't. I apologize if I made it seem I thought He might. It just struck me as curious that's all.
That and the message I was listening to on the radio, as is so often the case, the passage itself was being paraphrased without further reference to further the case of another spiritual issue. I can't recall what that was at the moment, but that irritates me when they do that.
Dekka00 said this in post #42 : sometimes we attribute human qualities to God when we really shouldn't. Some of it is a natural tendency for humans to anthromorphize everything, sometimes it's a metaphor for greater understanding, and sometimes it's just impossible for us to get outside ourselves. There are some things where we are created in God's image, but He is seperate from us, we can't understand some things.
Something like the "ability" to lie is thinking of things in human terms. God is what He is. If there is a God, and if it is the God of the Bible, then God is by nautre a God of Truth, and whether He "can" or "can't" lie is semantics... GOD AIN'T GONNA LIE.
If you hear something that illuminates, liberates, and makes things clearer for you, then it is of God. If there is something that decieves you, that sets a trap for you, then you know it is of Satan.
You don't even have to believe in God/Satan Heaven/Hell for what I said to be true. It doesn't matter what your individual beliefs are, the Truth is good and makes people understand, lies are bad and cause confusion and strife.
Agree. What is written about God is based on human logic and understanding. Come to think of it, God is much larger than that.
But you must also add that this is the problem of mankind solely embracing the KNOWLEDGE of right and wrong, or of good and evil. It’s an era of information, but somehow, it is likewise an opportunity for more misinformation.
RoyalPITA said this in post #40 : Is it impossible for God to lie? I know the verse Hebrews 6:18
So, what's the thought here? Could anything be impossible for God?
See Heck's example of the Burrito. I also heard the one about whether God could create a stone too heavy for him to pick up.
God and logic don't mix well, so either God's illogical or we are. If we're illogical then we can ask illogical questions, and asking the question whether an infallible God is fallible doesn't seem logical to me.
08-11-2006 02:00 PM
