USMC_Sniper said this in post #45 :
I support the war completely. Just cuz we didn't find and chemical or biological weapons doesn't mean he didn't have any.
We know where the WMD are, said Rumsfeld, before the US attacked Iraq. Mushroom clouds, 9/11, Al Qaeda etc. Anything can be "true", and of "course the people don't want war" but "it's always a simple matter to drag the people along..."
You were duped, lied to and steamrollered into believing the US needed to attack Iraq. It's a truth you're going to have to one day swallow.
Is Cheney still making the claim that the worse it gets in Iraq the better we're doing because it just shows how desperate they are?
quote:
WMDs can be destroyed.
Or can be used to convince people a country needs to be attacked.
quote:
"... and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
H@ts-
Maybe you've been duped by the media. If you haven't noticed, the only thing that the news reports is tragedy and destruction. You never hear about the good things that happen in the world; only the bad. This leads to you and your simple mind to believe things that might not be true. You have been duped by the liberal media's propaganda.
Ooh-rah
4 years as a scout sniper in the USMC.
21 months in Iraq in two tours.
Best job in the world. (Sitting around with an M40A3)
Don't look at me like
I am a monster
Frown out your one face
But with the other
Stare like a junkie
Into the TV
Stare like a zombie
While the mother
Holds her child
Watches him die
Hands to the sky crying
Why, oh why?
'cause I need to watch things die
From a distance
USMC_Sniper said this in post #47 :
H@ts-
Maybe you've been duped by the media.
Funny that you claim I've been duped, seeing as the stuff I believed, and read about, ie - that there was no WMD, Saddam's neighbours did not see Iraq as a threat, there were no ties to Al Qaeda, no ties to Islamic terrorism, etc etc - all turned out true. Meanwhile everything you believed turned out to be BS, and you didn't see it because you couldn't be bothered to look. You were duped so easily by the Bush admin's BS that I doubt you can even admit to yourself what happened, and no doubt you never will.
quote:
If you haven't noticed, the only thing that the news reports is tragedy and destruction. You never hear about the good things that happen in the world; only the bad. This leads to you and your simple mind to believe things that might not be true. You have been duped by the liberal media's propaganda.
A tired old conservative argument - pin the blame onto the "liberal" media, who only report the "bad" stuff.
Truth is bad foreign policy is bad foreign policy. Dress it up however you want, but in nearly all respects much of Iraq is a disaster, and Bush is using yet another surge to continue the war until he leaves office, so he'll never have to admit responsibility for the quagmire he created.
I'm with h@ts on this one. I never felt like it was a good idea to begin with, going to war with Iraq over WMD's, POSSIBLE al-queda connections (when the Taliban and bin Laden were centralized and hiding in AFGHANISTAN...), etc...
And yet when every single reason has been rebuffed, every piece of logic knocked on its ass we still cannot even get a timetable withdrawl. Mind boggling.
Regardless of if you believe that the war is just or not the fact is this. It happened and we are there; and we are going to be there for years. If we were to pullout, there would be some serous consuequences. The death toll would spike as full out war and genocide would spread like wildfire across Iraq. Then one side would gain dominance over the others. Then some bloodthirst leader would rise to power and would brutally suppress the others. Either Sunni over Shi'a or vice verse but the Kurds would be suppressed regardless and Iraq would be in no better shape than it was before the war.
I am fighting this war for the rights and freedom of the Iraqi People. The same right that you and I have. The same rights that allow you to criticize me for helping others obtain these rights.
And so I will continue to fight for freedom so long as my fellow marines are in Iraq and across the world.
Ooh-rah _____________
Ooh-rah
4 years as a scout sniper in the USMC.
21 months in Iraq in two tours.
Best job in the world. (Sitting around with an M40A3)
Don't look at me like
I am a monster
Frown out your one face
But with the other
Stare like a junkie
Into the TV
Stare like a zombie
While the mother
Holds her child
Watches him die
Hands to the sky crying
Why, oh why?
'cause I need to watch things die
From a distance
USMC_Sniper said this in post #51 : Regardless of if you believe that the war is just or not the fact is this. It happened and we are there; and we are going to be there for years. If we were to pullout, there would be some serous consuequences. The death toll would spike as full out war and genocide would spread like wildfire across Iraq. Then one side would gain dominance over the others. Then some bloodthirst leader would rise to power and would brutally suppress the others. Either Sunni over Shi'a or vice verse but the Kurds would be suppressed regardless and Iraq would be in no better shape than it was before the war.
I am fighting this war for the rights and freedom of the Iraqi People. The same right that you and I have. The same rights that allow you to criticize me for helping others obtain these rights.
And so I will continue to fight for freedom so long as my fellow marines are in Iraq and across the world.
Ooh-rah _____________
I agree with you there. I can shake my fist at the administration for getting us in this debacle but it's not going to do any good. The past election and popularity ratings speak volumes in that regard.
Now we just have to support our troops and honor their sacrifices and bravery. I may not be a Dubya supporter but I sure as hell support my country and our troops without exception.
I just feel that it's almost a self-serving argument in that the adminstration gives false information to get us over there (or lies, depending on how you see it) and justifies a prolonged conflict by basically saying it will cause more of a disaster to leave. It's like saying I can't clean up this broken glass because I'm going to break it more.
The thing about the Middle East is there will always be someone who will lead the radical Muslims, ascend to power and follow in the footsteps of all those before him. By no means am I saying we just pack up and go because of the inevitibility of the situation, I'm saying that if we are going to stay there until we are sure Iraq and the surrounding area will be peaceful, democratic and love America then we will never leave.
The debate to stay is a circular argument, the proverbial snake swallowing its own tail.
While I see we've gone from hunting Bin Laden to hunting WMD's to giving democracy to Iraq it really makes me step back and take note that not only did we encourage Saddam's rise to power we supported him and turned a deaf ear to the 'war crimes' he committed because at the time he was the lesser of two evils.
I find this entire mission over glorified and it needs to come to an end.
05-02-2007 09:33 AM
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