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Edward Teach
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American vs European post #1  quote:



Discussion on the positives, negatives, differences etc. What's your preference and why?

Old Post 05-15-2003 07:39 PM
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Dreamzwalker
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post #2  quote:

I do not have a specific preference - I guess the bigger cars - I cannot drive small cars as my legs are too long and i feel cramped due to the lack of room. Also, I haul many a people around.

Old Post 05-15-2003 07:48 PM
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scottc
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post #3  quote:

European cars -

Mclaren F1
Ferrari 360
Porsche 996 GT2
Ultima GTR
Jaguar XKR
Maserati Spyder GT
Aston Martin DB7 Vantage
BMW M coupe
Jaguar XJ220
Bugatti EB110S
Venturi 400GT
Ferrari F40 and F50
Noble M12GTO
TVR Speed 12
Mercedes 500SL

American Cars -

Err, well I spose the competition for the above would come soley from the Corvette Z06, and the Dodge Viper. Both monstrously fast without a doubt, but once again the old handling lets both down. Weight and distribution of the car was not an issue, nor was heat distribution at the tyres, basically all of the work was put in to create an engine that is VERY quick, (the methodology being just put something big in it, as in an 8.3 litre for the Viper). In the real world however, you are required to turn the wheel every now and then, which is where the european cars go round the bend, whereas the American cars do not.

American cars also look incredibly vulgar, whereas european styling is far superior.

Well, looks like on all levels European cars win.


Old Post 05-16-2003 11:59 AM
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post #4  quote:

Question is how many of these cars can the average person afford. Most Americans can't afford them. As is some of your high performance American cars to like Corvette, and Viper let alone being able to put a family of 4 or 5 into one. Add the import cost and well only the rich afford them.

Old Post 05-16-2003 02:57 PM
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scottc
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post #5  quote:

That is true, but the subject was American Vs European. If price is an issue then there still are many great alternatives. Amongst the list there is the Jaguar XKR, which can be picked up for around 60,000 dollars.

The Ultima GTR is around 65,000 dollars pre built, (or less if you take it in kit form and build it yourself). This is probably the most awsome of awsome cars. 0-60 in about 3.6 seconds, and a top speed of 220 mph. This is actually a fusion of what is good about American cars, (ie a powerful engine), with British engineering to accomplish great handling and stunning looks. It has an American Chevy lump, with a Porsche Trany. If you choose to assemble the car yourself, you can get the full kit for under 30,000 dollars, then find a chevy 5.2 lump. All in all for about 35,000 dollars, you can be driving the car that Mclaren based the F1 road car on. Check out http://www.ultimasportscars.com/ they even have a section devoted to US customers, where they can ship for free.

Other than that, if you look at the slightly less fast alternatives, I used to drive a Porsche Boxster, loads of fun, stunning looks, and all for about 40,000 dollars. Or there is the Audi TT, which is even cheaper. Import costs are'nt really an issue, since you can buy most european cars cheaper in America than over here. A new Jaguar XKR here in the Netherlands costs 140,000 euros !!, (which is roughly equal to the dollar).

The Noble M12 is also pretty cheap, one of the fastest cars on the road and about 60,000 dollars. They do not export to the US though.

With regards to "most Americans cant afford them", I thought America was the richest country in the world. There are far more rich people in America, than say Germany or England. Yet there are no American supercars.


Old Post 05-16-2003 03:35 PM
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post #6  quote:

I personally don't own an American car. I have a Jag XJ6 which I bought used and a Mitsubishi 3000gt which I also got used.

Now which car do I like the best. Right now it's hard to say. I like them both for different reasons. The Jag is a nice car with enough power to get on an interstate and room for more than 2 people. Power everything and a nice ride. Unfortunatly it doesn't have the V rated tires that Jaguar recommends so the steering is a little squimish.

Now the 3000gt has the power and handling and even though it's not the Turbo version I'm not complaining. It's a 1996 basic which that year had more horse power for that model then any of the other years. Somewhere around 390hp if my memory serves me.


Old Post 05-16-2003 04:51 PM
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esskay
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post #7  quote:

Speaking of Mitsubishi - don't Japanese cars belong in this debate?

As far as I'm concerned:

European:
Japanese:
Domestic:

Politics aside, purely from a design, engineering and aesthetic point of view.


Old Post 05-17-2003 09:12 AM
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leon0911
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post #8  quote:

for me it just ain't simple.

since i'm belgian, i can objectively choose between the european cars.
this is a car i like alot, just to show you that french and italian design are just astonishing.
http://www.renault.co.uk/RenaultSIT....0&car=Meganep2

then again, you got german quality:
http://www.audi.co.uk/newcars/desig...n=/models/a8/a8

but the american style is also going (finally) in the right direction.
http://www.cadillac.com/cadillacjsp.../cts/index.html

and japanese....mmmmm......well , at home we actually own this one:
http://www.geocities.com/mazdaone2o...ailing_list.htm

very ligtweight and cool breakhorse power:72! but a handling to cry about. I am even (sometimes) afraid to do a 180 on gravel, cause your just to afraid that it is going to flip over!
and oh yea, if i 'd choose between the movies gone in 60 seconds and fast and the furious, i would choose gone in 60 seconds.


Old Post 05-23-2003 03:36 PM
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post #9  quote:

quote:
Originally posted by leon0911
for me it just ain't simple.

since i'm belgian, i can objectively choose between the european cars.
this is a car i like alot, just to show you that french and italian design are just astonishing.
http://www.renault.co.uk/RenaultSIT...mp;car=Meganep2

then again, you got german quality:
http://www.audi.co.uk/newcars/desig...n=/models/a8/a8

but the american style is also going (finally) in the right direction.
http://www.cadillac.com/cadillacjsp.../cts/index.html

and japanese....mmmmm......well , at home we actually own this one:
http://www.geocities.com/mazdaone2o...ailing_list.htm

very ligtweight and cool breakhorse power:72! but a handling to cry about. I am even (sometimes) afraid to do a 180 on gravel, cause your just to afraid that it is going to flip over!
and oh yea, if i 'd choose between the movies gone in 60 seconds and fast and the furious, i would choose gone in 60 seconds.
Your first link didn't come up.

I really don't like the lines of these new cars. Especially the new Cadillac, YUK!
Maybe these new cars have to grow on me for a few years before I will like them.
Also I demand that a car has enough power to get me onto the Interstate. I can't see trying to merge into traffic that is going 70 MPH plus at 45 MPH because that's all the car will do. With both of my cars I can merge into 70 MPH traffic with no problem.

Just to clarify when you say 180 on a gravel road you are talking 180 KPH not 180 MPH.


Old Post 05-23-2003 03:58 PM
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leon0911
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post #10  quote:

let me get this a bit straight:
first the broken link:
http://www.renault.co.uk/RenaultSIT....0&car=Meganeb2
now that is fixed next:
72 bhp, the lightest touch on the pedal maxes this engine roar!
i can get the front weels spinning in second on a dry surface and when it's wet they keep spinning up to the third gear (you have got to shift quickly though)!

and third:
180 means 180 degrees..... I euh......like to test out some various euh....situations...... hehe


Old Post 05-23-2003 04:49 PM
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post #11  quote:

leon0911
Save the picture then post it - the link isn't working


Old Post 05-24-2003 03:14 PM
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post #12  quote:

I think it's this one

Old Post 05-24-2003 03:53 PM
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post #13  quote:

That doesn't look too bad. I like that one

Old Post 05-24-2003 04:01 PM
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letsplayskatch


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post #14  quote:

BAH! Its French! Are you mad! They haven't made one good car in their history. You want a Car? Behold: BMW E46 M3.
P.s. how do you insert pictures?
Regards


Last edited by on 05-30-2003 at 11:39 AM |
Old Post 05-30-2003 11:34 AM
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leon0911
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post #15  quote:

its european car of the year though, and although the build quality isn't as near as good as the german build quality, they actually produce ok cars. You don't compare a renault with a mercedes......

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post #16  quote:

Click post reply and there is a file insert option at the bottom - click browse and find your picture then submit reply.

Old Post 06-02-2003 07:02 AM
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post #17  quote:

well it is simple for me. its all about reliability and resale. take for example buying a new toyota corolla, granted they are slow and girly, but it is the longest lasting compact car on the road. lets say you paid 16,000 for it, two years later with average milage it is still worth atleast 10,000. Then take a cavelier, you pay the same new but two years later it is worth like 2,500. It is the same with every american vs. japanese car. the only american vehicles that hold their value are diesel trucks. and just look at any reliability reports for cars in the last 15 years. the top is always toyota and honda. the bottom is always occupied by american a and korean. Now european cars are tough because they hold their value better but a lot of euro cars are actually american owned. the reliability of cars like vw, bmw, mercedes and volvo have gone down terribly in the last 5 years. but i will give credit to the corvette, that much performance for the price tag, very hard to beat.

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MRDosGuy
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post #18  quote:

Japanese cars hold their value a lot longer, for reasons previously stated. They would definitely get the bang-for-the-buck award. If we want to go into sports cars, which seems to be the direction of this thread, there are many options in the Japanese automotive industry. And no, no matter what you do to your civic, it is still a civic. I am talking about cars designed to be sports cars from the beginning (ie, the Supra, MR2, 2000GT, 3000GT, NSX, WRX, etc). One thing that makes these cars so valued, in addition to the current rage from poor movies like "The Fast and the Furious," is the aftermarket parts and 'tuner crowd' that occurs with each of these cars. Individual cars will have a large following of people devoted to them. If left unmodded, a high performance sports car like the NSX can still be used as a comfortable daily driver, yet will last for 150,000 miles or more. Also, in terms of economy, Japanese cars are some of the least expensive cars out there (I am no longer talking about the sports cars). This makes them very popular.
American cars have gotten much better. Personally, I am a fan of handling and power, so I do not believe that the best sports car is nothing but a straight line or drag car. Older american cars were very good at that. The corvette, up until the C4 production, is a great example of this. The C5 and C6 series, especially the Z06, and even the C4 to an extent, are, in my opinion, some of the best American sports cars that can be bought. The Z06 outhandles most other sports cars in the world and has lots of hp (405 bhp) and torque as well. It is an extremely nimble and very good car. Other American cars, such as the Ford Mustang, pride themselves on straight-line performance. Handling is not really the issue with them. Mustangs, like some of the Japanese cars, also have huge fan followings, and this leads to companies offering lots of aftermarket parts. And this, in turn, boosts the sales of Mustangs (or any car with a following for that matter). Pricing on American sports cars is not all that ridiculous, as much as people seem to think that they are overpriced. The Z06 is the best sports car that can be bought (in terms of performance) for under $80k. For more expensive American sports cars, I would urge one to look into the Saleen S7. It is almost unbeatable.
European cars are in a league of their own, yet they have a lot of hype about them. I do certainly agree that one of the cheapest and best European sports cars is the Ultima GTR, but it is nowhere near $65k. The frame and part alone, and unassembled, cost $90k. The Chevy engine that goes into the car, in the top form (required for the previously posted 0-60mph times) costs over $20,000. And then you have to put the thing together on top of all that. (Sources: http://www.ultimacars.com/fra_pricing_ordering.htm and http://www.amerspeed.com/ultima.htm). Older british cars have a fan following, but are considered collectibles and are rarely driven on a regular basis. Jaguar has made some good cars, but overall, as European cars are being bought out by American companies, their reliability is going up. Italian cars, such as Ferraris and Lambos, are, eithout a doubt, some of the best performance cars in the world. However, what few people know is the amount of work that has to go into them just to keep them running. A Ferrari is supposed to have dealer work performed on it every 15k miles. Those dealer repairs alone will cost the owner the price of a new Civic. For the people who own brand new Ferraris and such, this is not really an issue, but it is something to take into consideration when comparing all these cars. The same goes for Porsches and the like. All European cars are going to have a much lower reliability and much higher maintainence costs than other cars.
All of these things factor into which car is "the best." It all depends on driver preference, and loyaltly to a car or brand (but we won't go into that right now) to find out what makes the best car in each person's mind. So, with that said, I am going to step down from my soap boax and see where this thread goes.


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arcaneangel24
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post #19  quote:

I personally would rate it more like this:

Japanese
European
American

Then again I own a 2004 Celica GTS, and wouldn't drive a different car if you paid me to. I find that it outperformed all of the other cars I test drove before I purchased it, plus it was about 20,000 dollars than the similar Mustang, and about 10,000 dollars cheaper the the Volkswagen GTI.


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