john edwards' campaign speech about 'two different americas' was right on. karl rove knew exactly how to play to the emotions of one of those americas and they voted 'bush', with millions of them not even knowing or understanding the truth.
they still don't, even to this day.
More disdain for Republicans....now we're ignorant because we don't know nor can we even comprehend the truth.
usanow said this in post #45 : Look
in
the
mirror.
For what, hatred? I don't endorse it.
quote:
As for me personally, I've attempted to reach common ground with every poster on the board, even those incessantly label Republicans as racist liars and cheaters. When I see something that's either inaccurate or inflammatory, I'll respond.
This I can appreciate..
quote:
Just because I argue with as much vehemence as you does not mean make me hateful nor despicable.
You say something like this immediately after your post from above with the following hateful statement which, admittedly, is what largely prompted my reaction:
quote:
usanow said this in post #33 : .. the neo-liberal, hate mongering, conspiracy theorists on this board have not disappointed..
I just don't see that a liberal disposition makes one by necessity a "hate mongerer". Your context also implies that conspiracy theorists are no better than "neo-liberals" and "hate mongerers" which frames your opinion that conspiracies don't exist. Yet conspiracies DO exist and have been proven countless times over and sometimes owe thanks to conspiracy theorists for revealing them. Now I will be the frist to admit that some conspiracy theories are purely based on coincidence, conjecture and zero evidence - but these are relatively easy to pick out by comparison to the ones that are indeed based on facts.
Personally, I think you shouldn't necessarily dismiss "conspiracy theorists" as effectively worthless as you have above especially when they bring hard facts to the table and serious, empirically derived questions and analysis.
Regardless, perhaps my reaction was not comeasurate with your intention behind the comment which perhaps blew this sub-topic out of proportion.
My beef with conspiracy theories is that they're continually thrown out as "evidence" that the Republican party is corrupt. Sometimes, these are so absurd as to be laughable.
For example, when the Republican headquarters were getting broken into, and when all those people (from some union) were photographed standing on tables inside a RNC headquarters office , some people on this board were saying that it was Republicans doing it!
When the memo surfaced to CBS, some people were saying that Republicans wrote the memo. Talk about an elaborate hoax.
Then we get stories about over 1,000,000 people being "disenfranchised" by Republicans, when in fact even the Civil Rights commission (headed by a Civil Rights activist) stated that no intentional disenfranchisement was found in 2000.
Now Jim Nasium is saying Kerry won Ohio and Florida!
Are there a lot of dirty tricks played in politics? You bet. But not every bump in the road for the Democratic party can be attributed to a conspiracy theory.
As to the harsh adjectives - I'll try to cool down in the future. Unfortunately threads like this where Republicans are labeled "hateful", "Isolationist", "cheaters", etc. make me want to respond in kind.
usanow said this in post #48 : My beef with conspiracy theories is that they're continually thrown out as "evidence" that the Republican party is corrupt. Sometimes, these are so absurd as to be laughable.
Indeed, I too wish more people were fact-driven. The things you mention are certainly the types of conspiracy theories that have limited factual data to support the claim. It is understandable that the reaction can be one of anger. Of course there's always the alternative: cool, level-headed, fact-based rebuttle which a number of people in the forum here practice fairly consistently, a very nice trait!
Some conspiracy theories are downright laughable like the "alien base" on the far side of the moon, or the suggestion that Americans never set foot on the moon and that was all a hoax as well. Some people just don't know when to leave well enough alone, even in a sea of evidence to the contrary.
I personally apologize to you and all non-government Republicans. You are not the isolationist, racist, deceitful, xenophobic, ruthless, democracy-crushing, self-promoting, environment-trashing, war-mongering/profiteering, election-stealing, etc. monsters that we are so upset with. You do, however, support these people. Often this support is tacit and unwitting. This is even more infuriating. But, we all must begin to identify the common enemy. We must stop falling for the control-by-division ploy that the oppressors are using and seek a rebirth of American democracy. We must do it together. No two ways about it.
Here in America we are descended in blood and in spirit from revolutionists and rebels - men and women who dare to dissent from accepted doctrine. As their heirs, may we never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion.
Dwight D. Eisenhower
I personally apologize to you and all non-government Republicans. You are not the isolationist, racist, deceitful, xenophobic, ruthless, democracy-crushing, self-promoting, environment-trashing, war-mongering/profiteering, election-stealing, etc. monsters that we are so upset with.
ea, you omitted at least ten or fifteen adjectives there, but i'm a little too tired to add the missing ones right now, so we'll just let it stand at that.
btw, we all welcome the new and improved, lovable, usanow.
EA, thanks for the apology, and it's certainly accepted.
These political debates remind me a lot of theological debates between Catholics and Protestants. Although there are several things that cause a huge divide between the two faiths, there is much more that unites them.
To a lesser extent, the same holds true in politics. I think we can all agree that we share 90% of the same objectives (strong America, effective education system, low unemployment, low poverty, etc.). It would seem a union formed by common objectives would far outweigh any disagreements about the methods to accomplish those objectives. Agreed?
Jim, all I can say is that I'll greet civility w/ civility and hostility w/ hostility, and I'd expect you to do the same. I hope you appreciate that attacks on Bush as a stupid lying cheater create a hostile thread. Saying Bush's plan to privatize social security is stupid because _____________ will generate a good discussion. Saying Bush is a stupid liar whole stole the election won't.
usanow said this in post #54 :
Jim, all I can say is that I'll greet civility w/ civility and hostility w/ hostility, and I'd expect you to do the same. I hope you appreciate that attacks on Bush as a stupid lying cheater create a hostile thread. Saying Bush's plan to privatize social security is stupid because _____________ will generate a good discussion. Saying Bush is a stupid liar whole stole the election won't.
Peace.
gotcha! and, as you say, that works both ways, of course.
i'm not someone, btw, who invented the idea that bush stole the election. you'll note that a few other people are in my boat on that. i've heard a number of people present that allegation and it's still being talked about on talk radio shows, several that I've listened to. supposedly, some members of congress are having it investigated. nothing may ever come of it, but it's not entirely an unrealistic possibility that strings were pulled. the exit polling results alone are reason for suspicion of possible hanky panky.
and yes, although i don't believe it will affect me, personally, i don't want bush messing with the social security benefits i worked so hard to earn all my life. i don't want him messing with my kids' potential benefits either. there's a big problem to be solved, but there are undoubtedly alternative ways to solve it. one more crash, like the dot.com nosedive, and my kids and grandkids may be in the soup lines when they can no longer work. hopefully, kerry or some other senator can get something that makes sense through congress without bush squashing it.
11-18-2004 10:46 PM
