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dala3
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about Islam? post #1  quote:



Hi every one

I am gonna ask u few quastions about Islam:

1- what do u think of ISLAM?

2- Is it a religion of violence ?

3- Have u read any books talk about it?


Old Post 04-12-2004 03:33 AM
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chodder
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post #2  quote:

I wish to help, but do not know anything about Islam. Sorry... maybe someone else can Welcome to INReview.

Old Post 04-12-2004 03:42 AM
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Heatherhobbit
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post #3  quote:

There is a Religion and Philosophy forum where I think you may be able to find others with similar interests. Welcome to InReview.

Old Post 04-12-2004 03:44 AM
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Neodammerung
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post #4  quote:

Yes, I second what Heather said. Welcome to InReview - but this is not the place for such a thread.

Neo


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fuscia is Away
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post #5  quote:

I am moving this to P & T.

Old Post 04-13-2004 03:58 AM
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dala3
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post #6  quote:

hi every body

sorry , I did not know that there is a section for philosophy and religion.

it is nice to join u.


Old Post 04-16-2004 04:47 AM
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loganc
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post #7  quote:

Hello,
As a religious person I am interested in all religions I have read the Qu'ran although I am not a Muslim. True Islam is not a religion of violence. But, as history can account for all religions, with the exception of Buddhism, have been violent in thier past. Those are the questions that you have asked feel free to ask me any others that you may have.
Logan.


Old Post 04-20-2004 07:59 AM
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devildog
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Re: about Islam? post #8  quote:

quote:
dala3 said this in post #1 :
Hi every one

I am gonna ask u few quastions about Islam:

1- what do u think of ISLAM?

Don't get me started It's a Pagan religion founded by a thief, liar, rapist, murderer, plunderer, and pedophile to name a few of Mo's redeeming qualities.

2- Is it a religion of violence ?

Unquestionably

3- Have u read any books talk about it?

I could PM them if you would like



Old Post 04-28-2004 06:43 PM
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loganc
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post #9  quote:

Devildog, I was just reading over the 26 pages of quotes in which Islam supports violence, and some dont support violence, but rahter thier faith. I think Chrsitians do the same in the respect. Although there are some quotes like Qur?an 9:5 ?Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.? That make Islam seem like a religion of violence.

It just seems hard for me to label 1.2 billion people as violent when I know Muslims and they are not violent people. (I Know you said that these are then 'bad' Muslims earlier, however I am still having trouble making that connection).

Logan.


Old Post 04-29-2004 02:47 AM
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devildog
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post #10  quote:

Mohammad and Allah label them "bad" Muslims, not me. A preponderance of Muslims have no idea what they are worshipping, logan. They are taught to recite the qu'ran. Nothing more. They certainly don't understand it. How could they? It is the ones who know Islam best that are the so called extremists. The Qur?an defines good and bad Muslims for us. It says a good Muslim is a Jihadist, a man who leaves his home, sacrificing his wealth and life, fighting in Allah?s Cause. Allah says they will be rewarded with stolen booty if they survive or with a heavenly bordello if they die. Bad Muslims, on the other hand, are peaceful. Allah calls them ?hypocrites? because they are unwilling to fight. He even says that peaceful Muslims are ?the most vile of creatures? and that hell?s hottest fires await them. If you are a peace-loving Muslim, your god hates you.

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loganc
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post #11  quote:

Can I ask you for the quotes on just the
"Allah calls them ?hypocrites? because they are unwilling to fight"and
"He even says that peaceful Muslims are ?the most vile of creatures? and that hell?s hottest fires await them. "

I know you have posted large amounts of quotes but I would just like the two for now. Thanks for you time, Logan.


Old Post 04-29-2004 03:11 AM
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devildog
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post #12  quote:

Stand by

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loganc
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post #13  quote:

Thanks.

Old Post 04-29-2004 03:16 AM
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devildog
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post #14  quote:

quote:
loganc said this in post #11 :
Can I ask you for the quotes on just the
"Allah calls them ?hypocrites? because they are unwilling to fight"and
"He even says that peaceful Muslims are ?the most vile of creatures? and that hell?s hottest fires await them. "


Your answers lie within Logan. I will let you pick out which one best suits you as proof. I copied it on a text file on my desktop so I hope it isn't too hard to figure out. Let me know if this doesn't satisfy.

Qur?an 33:60 ?Truly, if the Hypocrites stir up sedition, if the agitators in the City do not desist, We shall urge you to go against them and set you over them.
Then they will not be able to stay as your neighbors for any length of time. They shall have a curse on them. Whenever they are found, they shall be
seized and slain without mercy?a fierce slaughter?murdered, a horrible murdering.?
Bukhari:V1B11N626 ?The Prophet said, ?No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr. If they knew the reward they would come to (the mosque) even
if they had to crawl. I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those who had not left their houses for the prayer,
burning them alive inside their homes.??
Qur?an 4:88 ?What is the matter with you that you are divided about the Hypocrites? Allah has cast them back (causing their disbelief). Would you guide
those whom Allah has thrown out of the Way? For those whom Allah has thrown aside and led astray, never shall they find the Way.?
Qur?an 9:67 ?The Hypocrites enjoin what is forbidden, and forbid what Islam commands. They withhold their hands (from spending in Allah?s Cause
[Jihad]). They have forgotten Allah so He has forgotten them. Verily the Hypocrites are oblivious, rebellious and perverse.?



Qur?an 9:68 ?Allah has promised the Hypocrites, both men and women, and the disbelievers the Fire of Hell for their abode: Therein shall they dwell. It will suffice them. On them is the curse of Allah, and an enduring punishment, a lasting torment.?
Qur?an 9:74 ?The Hypocrites swear by Allah that they said nothing, but indeed they uttered blasphemy, and they disbelieved after Surrender (accepting Islam). They meditated a plot (to murder Prophet Muhammad) which they were unable to carry out. The reason for this revenge of theirs was the bounty [of booty] with which Allah and His Messenger had enriched them! If they repent, it will be best for them; but if they turn back, Allah will punish them with a grievous torment in this life and in the Hereafter.?
Qur?an 9:75 ?Some of you made a deal with Allah, saying, ?If You give us booty we shall pay You the tax.? But when He gave them booty, they became greedy and refused to pay. As a consequence of breaking their promises, Allah filled their hearts with hypocrisy which will last forever.?
Qur?an 9:77 ?He punished them by putting hypocrisy in their hearts until the Day whereon they shall meet Him, because they lied to Allah and failed to perform as promised. Allah knows their secrets. Those who slander and taunt the believers who pay the zakat (for Allah?s Cause) voluntarily and throw ridicule on them, scoffing, Allah will throw back their taunts, and they shall have a painful doom. Whether you ask for their forgiveness or not, (their sin is unforgivable). If you ask seventy times for their forgiveness Allah will not forgive them.?
Qur?an 9:81 ?Those who stayed behind rejoiced in their inaction behind the back of the Messenger. They hated to strive and fight with their goods and lives in the Cause of Allah. They said, ?Go not forth in the heat.? Say, ?The fire of Hell is fiercer in heat.? If only they could understand! So let them laugh a little, for they will weep much as a reward for what they did. If Allah brings you back (from the campaign) to a party of the hypocrites and they ask to go out to fight, say: ?You shall never go out to fight with me against a foe. You were content sitting inactive on the first occasion. So sit with the useless men who lag behind.? Do not pray for any of them (Muhammad) that die, nor stand at his grave. They rejected Allah and disbelieved His Messenger. They died in a state of perverse rebellion.?
Qur?an 9:85 ?And let not their wealth or (following in) sons dazzle you or excite your admiration. Allah?s plan is to punish them with these things in this world, and to make sure their souls perish while they are unbelievers. When a surah comes down enjoining them to believe in Allah and to strive hard and fight along with His Messenger, those with wealth and influence among them ask you for exemption from Jihad. They prefer to be with (their women), who remain behind (at home). Their hearts are sealed and so they understand not.?
Qur?an 9:88 ?The Messenger and those who believe him, strive hard and fight jihad with their wealth and lives (in Allah?s Cause).?
Qur?an 9:90 ?And there were among the wandering desert Arabs men who made excuses and came to claim exemption (from the battle). Those who lied to Allah and His Messenger sat at home. Soon will a grievous torment seize them.?
Qur?an 9:93 ?The (complaint) is against those who claim exemption [from fighting] while they are rich. They prefer to stay with the (women) who remain behind (at home). Allah has sealed their hearts. They are content to be useless. Say: ?Present no excuses: we shall not believe you.? It is your actions that Allah and His Messenger will observe. They will swear to you by Allah, when you return hoping that you might leave them alone. So turn away from them, for they are unclean, an abomination, and Hell is their dwelling-place, a fitting recompense for them.?
Qur?an 9:97 ?The Arabs of the desert are the worst in unbelief and hypocrisy, and most fitted to be in ignorance of the command which Allah hath sent down to His Messenger. Some of the Bedouins look upon their payments (for Allah?s Cause) as a fine and wish disasters to fall on you (so that they might not have to pay). Yet on them be the disaster of evil.?
Qur?an 9:101 ?Among the desert Arabs are hypocrites. They, like the people of Medina are obstinate in hypocrisy. We know them. Twice shall We punish them, and in addition they shall be brought back to a horrible torment.?
Qur?an 9:120 ?It is not fitting for the people of Medina and the Bedouin Arabs to refuse to follow Allah?s Messenger (Muhammad when fighting in Allah?s Cause), nor to prefer their own lives to his life. They suffer neither thirst nor fatigue in Allah?s Cause, no do they go without reward. They do not take steps to raise the anger of disbelievers, nor inflict any injury upon an enemy without it being written to their credit as a deed of righteousness.?
Tabari IX:13 ?Muhammad turned to see Umm, a pregnant woman, who said, ?O Messenger! Kill those [Muslims] who flee from you as you kill those who fight you, for they deserve death. Here is my dagger. If any come near me I will rip them up and slit open their belly with it.??
Tabari IX:49 ?One of the hypocrites, feeling an aversion to battle, being skeptical of the truth, and spreading false rumors about Muhammad, said that they should not go out in the heat. With regard to him, Allah revealed: ?They said, ?Do not march out in the heat.? Say, ?The heat of hell is far more intense.???
Ishaq:602 ?Jadd told Muhammad, ?Will you allow me to stay behind and not tempt me? Everyone knows that I am strongly addicted to women. I?m afraid that I?ll see Byzantine women and will not be able to control myself.? The Apostle gave him permission to remain behind. It was about him that Allah sent down: ?There are some who say: ?Give me leave to stay behind and do not tempt me.? Surely they have fallen into temptation already and hell encompasses these unbelievers.? (9:49) It was not that he feared the temptation from the Byzantine women. The temptation he had fallen into was greater in that he had hung back from the Apostle and sought to please himself rather than Muhammad. Verily hell awaits him.?
Ishaq:603 ?One of the estranged ones said to another, ?Don?t go out to fight in this heat.? He disliked strenuous war, doubted the truth, and created misgivings about the Apostle. So Allah sent down regarding them, ?And they said, ?Do not go out in this heat.? Say, ?The fires of hell are hotter. Let them laugh a little now for they will weep a great deal later as a reward for what they did.?? (5:82)
Ishaq:603 ?Some Bedouins came to apologize for not going into battle, but Allah would not accept their excuses.?
Ishaq:246 ?The surah of the Hypocrites came down because some men sent secret messages to the Nadir Jews when the Apostle besieged them. So Allah sent down, ?Have you not considered the Hypocrites who say to their brethren, the People of the Book [Jews], ?We shall never obey anyone against you. If you are attacked and driven out we will help you. Allah bears witness that they are liars.??
Qur?an 59:11 ?Have you not observed the Hypocrites saying to their unbelieving brethren among the People of the Book, ?If you are expelled [from your homes by the Muslims], we will go with you?? But Allah is witness that they are liars. If the Jews are expelled, never will the Hypocrites go with them; if they are attacked, they will not help them defend themselves. In truth you [jihadist Muslims] are more fearful and awful (than they) because they are afraid of you. This is a result of the terror (sent) by Allah. They are men devoid of understanding.? Qur?an 59:14 ?They are a divided people devoid of sense. There is a grievous punishment awaiting them. Satan tells them not to believe so both of them will end up in Hell.?


Old Post 04-29-2004 05:55 AM
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devildog
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post #15  quote:

Cont'

Qur?an 8:20 ?O you who believe! Obey Allah and His Messenger. Do not turn away from him when you hear him speak. Do not be like those who say, ?We hear,? but do not listen. Those who do not obey are the worst of beasts, the vilest of animals in the sight of Allah. They are deaf and dumb. Those who do not understand are senseless. If Allah had seen any good in them, He would have made them listen. And even if He had made them listen, they would but have turned away and declined submission.?
Qur?an 8:47 ?Be not as those who came from their homes full of their own importance, trying to turn men away from [fighting] in Allah?s Cause. Allah is encircling them. Satan made their acts seem alluring to them, and said: ?No one can conquer you this day, while I am near you.? But when the two armies came in sight of each other, he turned on his heels, and said: ?Lo! I am not with you. I see what you cannot. Verily, I fear Allah: for Allah is severe in punishment.??
Qur?an 8:49 ?When the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is a disease said: ?The religion has deceived and misled them.??
Qur?an 8:55 ?Verily the worst of creatures, the vilest of beasts in the sight of Allah are those who reject Him and will not believe. They are those with whom you make an agreement, but they break their covenant every time, and they keep not their duty [to fight].?
Qur?an 61:2 ?O Muslims, why say one thing and do another? Grievously odious and hateful is it in the sight of Allah that you say that which you do not. Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in a battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure.?
Qur?an 63:1 ?When the Hypocrites come to you they say, ?We bear witness that you are indeed the Messenger of Allah.? Allah knows you are His Messenger, and Allah bears witness the Hypocrites are indeed liars.? Qur?an 63:2 ?They have made their oaths a screen, thus they obstruct (men) from the Path of Allah: truly evil are their deeds. That is because they believed, then they rejected Faith: So a seal was set on their hearts.?
Qur?an 63:4 ?When you look at the Hypocrites, their bodies please you; and when they speak, you listen to their words. They are pieces of wood propped up. They think every cry is against them. They are the enemies; so beware of them. The curse of Allah is on them! Allah will destroy them. How are they deluded and perverted?? Qur?an 63:6 ?It is equal to them whether you ask forgiveness or not. Allah will never forgive them. Allah does not forgive the transgressing people.?
Qur?an 63:7 ?The Hypocrites are the ones who say, ?Spend nothing on those who are with Allah?s Messenger so that they will desert him.? But to Allah belong the treasures of the earth; but the Hypocrites understand not. They say, ?If we return to Medina, surely the more honorable (element) will expel the meaner (i.e., Muhammad).??
Ishaq:372 ??When he went out, Abd Allah bin Ubayy [the man who had advised against leaving town] came back with 300 men, saying, ?We do not know why we should get ourselves killed here.? So he went back to Medina with the Hypocrites and doubters who followed him. Abd Allah bin Amr said, ?Allah curse you, enemies of Allah. Allah will let us manage without you.??
Ishaq:391 ?The day of Uhud was a day of trial, calamity, and heart-searching on which Allah tested the believers. He put the hypocrites on trial, those who professed faith with their tongue and hid unbelief in their hearts. And it was a day in which Allah honored with martyrdom those whom He willed.?
Qur?an 3:141 ?Did you think that you would enter Paradise while Allah does not know those of you who really fights hard (in His Cause) and remains steadfast? You wished for death before you met it (in the field of battle). Now [that] you have seen it with your own eyes, (you flinch!)? [Another translation reads:] ?Did you think you would enter Paradise without Allah testing those of you who fight in His Cause??
Ishaq:393 ?Then Allah said: ?Obey Allah and the Apostle and maybe you will attain mercy. Reproaching those who disobeyed the Apostle in the orders he gave them that day [to fight] He said, ?Vie with one another for forgiveness from your Lord and for the Garden of Bliss prepared for those who fear, a dwelling for those who obey Me and obey My Apostle?. They have wronged themselves by disobedience. But they must not continue disobeying Me for I have prohibited the worship of any but Myself.?
Ishaq:398 ?Show them that you listen to them and ask them for their help. Thereby make the religion of Islam agreeable to them. And when you are resolved in the matter of religion concerning fighting your enemy you will have the advantage.?
Ishaq:393 ?Allah loves the steadfast [fighters]. How many a prophet has death in battle befallen and how many multitudes with him? They did not show weakness toward their enemies and were not humiliated when they suffered in the fight for Allah and their religion. That is steadfastness, and Allah loves the steadfast.? Ishaq:395 ?Practice your religion as they did, and be not renegades, turning back on your heels, retreating. Those who retreat and turn away from the battle are losers in this world and in the next.?
Qur?an 3:152 ?Allah did indeed fulfill His promise to you when you, with His permission were about to annihilate your enemy, until you flinched and fell to disputing about the order, and disobeyed it after He brought you in sight (of the booty) which you covet. Among you are some that hanker after this world and some that desire the Hereafter.?
Ishaq:396 ?I promise to give you victory over your enemy. You routed them with the sword, killing them by My permission. Then you deserted Me and disobeyed My order and disputed about the order of My Prophet. He told the archers to stay put. But after I showed you what you were desiring, the Meccan wives and property, you desired the spoil and abandoned the order to fight. Only those who fought for religion did not transgress in going after the booty. Allah reproached the hypocrites for running away from their Prophet and paying no heed when he called to them.?
Qur?an 3:154 ?Say: ?Even if you had remained in your houses, those ordained to be slaughtered would have gone forth to the places where they were to slain.?
Qur?an 3:155 ?Those who turned back the day the two armies clashed, Satan caused them to backslide, fail in their duty, and run away from the battlefield.?
Qur?an 3:156 ?O you who believe! Be not like the Unbelievers, who say of their brethren when they are traveling through the land engaged in raids and fighting: ?If they had stayed with us, they would not have died or been slain.? This is that Allah may make it anguish, a cause of sighs and regrets. It is Allah that gives Life and causes Death by His power, as He wishes. And if you are slain, or die, in Allah?s Cause [as a martyr], pardon from Allah and mercy are far better than all they could amass.?
Qur?an 3:165 ?What! When a single disaster smites you, although you smote with one twice as great, do you say: ?Whence is this?? Say: ?It is from yourselves.? What you suffered on the day the armies clashed was by permission of Allah; that He might know the true believers.?
Qur?an 3:167 ?And that He might know the Hypocrites, unto whom it was said: ?Come, fight in Allah?s Cause, or (at least) drive (the foe from your city).? They said: ?Had we known how to fight, we should certainly have followed you.? They were that day nearer to Unbelief than to Faith, saying with their lips what was not in their hearts but Allah hath full knowledge of all they conceal.? Qur?an 3:168 ?Those who, while they sat at home, said (of their brethren slain fighting for the cause of Allah), while they themselves sit (at home at ease): ?If only they had listened to us they would not have been killed.? Say: ?Avert death from your own selves, if you speak the truth.??
Ishaq:399 ?You had smitten your enemy with a double dose of torment at Badr, slaying them and taking prisoners. Yet you disobeyed your Prophet?s orders and brought the defeat of Uhud on yourselves. And it was said to them: ?Come, fight for Allah?s sake.? The hypocrites stopped fighting for Allah?s sake, eager to survive, fleeing death. So Allah said to His Prophet to make the Muslims wish to fight and to desire battle: ?And do not think that those who were killed for Allah?s sake are dead. Nay, they are alive with their Lord being nourished, glad with the bounty Allah has brought them and rejoicing for those who have not yet joined them that they have nothing to fear or grieve over.?
Qur?an 33:11 ?In that situation the Believers were sorely tried and shaken as by a tremendous shaking. And behold! The Hypocrites and those in whose hearts is a disease said: ?Allah and His Messenger promised us nothing but delusion!? [Or?] ?Allah and His Messenger promised only to deceive us.? Qur?an 33:13 ?Behold! A party among them said: ?Men of Yathrib! You cannot stand (the attack); therefore go back!? And a band of them asked for leave of the Prophet, saying, ?Our houses are bare and exposed,? though they were not exposed. They intended nothing but to run away.? [In a second translation:] ?And verily they had already sworn to Allah that they would not turn their backs (to a foe). An oath to Allah must be adhered to. Say: ?Running away will not profit you if you are running away from death or slaughter; and even if (you escape), no more than a brief (respite) will you be allowed!?? [A third translation:] ?Say: Flight will not avail you if you flee from death, killing, or slaughter. In that case you will not be allowed to enjoy yourselves but a little while. Say, ?Who will screen you, saving you from Allah if he intends to harm and injure you???
Qur?an 33:18 ?Verily Allah already knows those among you who keep back and those who say to their brethren, ?Come along to us,? but come not to the fight in the stress of battle except for just a little while. Being covetous and *****rdly with respect to you; but when fear comes, you will see them looking to you, their eyes rolling like one swooning because of death. But when the fear is gone they smite you with sharp tongues, covetous of goods, in their greed for wealth (from the spoil). Such men have no faith, and so Allah has made their deeds of none effect: and that is easy for Allah.? Qur?an 33:20 ?They...wish the allied clans were (wandering) in the desert among the Bedouins. But if they were in your midst, they would only battle or fight with them for moment.?
Qur?an 33:60 ?Truly, if the Hypocrites, those in whose hearts is a disease, those who stir up sedition, the agitators in the City, do not desist, We shall urge you (Muhammad) to go against them and set you over them. Then they will not be able to stay as your neighbors for any length of time. They shall have a curse on them. Whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy?a fierce slaughter?murdered, a horrible murdering. (Such was) the practice (approved) of Allah among those who lived before. No change wilt thou find in the practice of Allah.?
Qur?an 4:137 ?Those who believe, then reject faith, then believe and reject faith, and go on increasing in unbelief, Allah will never pardon them, nor guide them. To the Hypocrites give the glad tidings that there is for them a grievous penalty, a painful doom.?
Qur?an 4:140 ?You have been commanded in the Book that whenever you hear Verses of Allah denied, derided, ridiculed, or mocked [as is the only reasoned response], do not sit with them and engage them in this talk or you will be no different from them. Indeed, Allah will collect the Hypocrites and Infidels together and put them all in Hell.?
Qur?an 4:142 ?The Hypocrites try to deceive Allah, but it is He Who deceives them. When they stand up performing the prayer, they stand sluggishly, to be seen, but they are mindful of Allah but little. (They are) distracted in mind even in the midst of it, swaying between this and that, one group or the another. Those who Allah causes to go astray and err will not find a way. Believers, take not for friends unbelieving infidels rather than believers [because rational thought is contagious]. Do you want to offer Allah an open proof against you? The Hypocrites will be in the lowest depths of the Fire.?


Old Post 04-29-2004 05:56 AM
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loganc
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post #16  quote:

Thanks for the help, I'll take a good read of it tomorrow.
Logan.


Old Post 04-29-2004 06:19 AM
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post #17  quote:

Thank u so much logan.
 
 
Hi devildog,
I have some comments about what u said:
1- u said (Islam is Pagan religion founded by a thief, liar, rapist, murderer, plunderer, and pedophile to name a few of Mo's redeeming qualities. )
 
how is that?
we know that Muslims believe in God
also, they have a holy book was sent by him
and prophet was sent by him,too.
so, they are like Christians and Jews.
 
2- about jihad:
to be objective we should ask Muslims Cleric about it.so that, i am gonna search for Islamic websites.
 
3- about Quran:
i have read it all.
it contains many supjects such as jihad , stories of some prophets,the last day,christians , jews etc.
also, there is a chapter named Mariam(the Holy Mary) talks about her and her son Jesus and i will write a thread about that.
 
may i ask u some questions Devildog?
-have u ever been to Islamic country?
-have u got any certificate on Islamic studies?
- have u ever discussed any Islamic issues with muslims?
 
thank u so much Devildog.

 


Old Post 05-05-2004 05:22 AM
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post #18  quote:

devildog ... this is not in the right place, but can I ask where Mohammed was visited but the devil ... not the place but rahter where I can read about that?

THanks, Logan.


Old Post 05-05-2004 07:02 AM
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devildog
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post #19  quote:

[QUOTE]dala3 said this in post #17 :
[B]Thank u so much logan.
 
 
Hi devildog,
I have some comments about what u said:
1- u said (Islam is Pagan religion founded by a thief, liar, rapist, murderer, plunderer, and pedophile to name a few of Mo's redeeming qualities. )
 
how is that?

Every one of these issues have been proven. If you care to be more specific as to which one you want proof of first, I will gladly supply.

we know that Muslims believe in God
also, they have a holy book was sent by him
and prophet was sent by him,too.
so, they are like Christians and Jews.
 

Muslims do not believe in the same God as represented in the Hebrew Bible. Make no mistake about that. They do not have a holy book and it was sent by no one. It is anything but insired or devine. In fact it is ridiculous. And Mo performed not one single miracle or prophesy.

2- about jihad:
to be objective we should ask Muslims Cleric about it.so that, i am gonna search for Islamic websites.
 


Virtually all that is known about Muhammad and the formation of Islam is contained in Ishaq's Sira, Tabari's History, Bukhari, Muslim and the Qur'an. There are no other prime sources. Don't waste your time visiting Islamic web sites. It wil benefit you zero. These Islamic sites will claim to be more of an expert on the translation of the word Jihad than the Islamic scholars who translated the Qur'an and Hadith. Founders of Islam said:
Noble Qur?an 2:190 Footnote: ?Jihad is holy fighting in Allah?s Cause with full force of numbers and weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its pillars( there are 5 ). By Jihad Islam is established, Allah?s Word is made superior (which means only Allah has the right to be worshiped), and Islam is propagated. By abandoning Jihad Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position; their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape from this duty, or does not fulfill this duty, dies as a hypocrite.?

Here are some other examples. There are a thousand more but you'd be best advised to read them in the context of Muhammad's life rather than in the context of topic. The words inside of parenthesis are from the translators. They seem to understand the definition of Jihad.

Qur?an 8:73 ?The unbelieving infidels are allies. Unless you (Muslims) aid each other (fighting as one united block to make Allah?s religion victorious), there will be confusion and mischief. Those who accepted Islam, left their homes to fight in Allah?s Cause (al-Jihad), as well as those who give them asylum, shelter, and aid?these are (all) Believers: for them is pardon and bountiful provision (in Paradise).?

Muslim:C20B1N4597 ?The Prophet said at the conquest of Mecca: ?There is no migration now, but only Jihad,
fighting for the Cause of Islam. When you are asked to set out on a Jihad expedition, you should readily do so.??

Muslim: C34B20N4652-3 ?The Merit Of Jihad And Of Keeping Vigilance Over The Enemy: A man came to the
Holy Prophet and said: ?Who is the best of men?? He replied: ?A man who fights staking his life and
spending his wealth in Allah?s Cause.??

Qur?an 47:20 ?Those who believe say, ?How is it that no surah was sent down (for us)?? But when a categorical [definite or uncompromising] surah is revealed, and fighting and war (Jihad, holy fighting in Allah?s Cause) are ordained, you will see those with diseased hearts looking at you (Muhammad) fainting unto death. Therefore woe to them!?

Qur?an 2:216 ?Jihad (holy fighting in Allah?s Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims), though you dislike it.
But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and like a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knows, and you know not.? [Another translation reads:] ?Warfare is ordained for you.?

Qur?an 4:95 ?Not equal are those believers who sit at home and receive no injurious hurt, and those who strive hard, fighting Jihad in Allah?s Cause with their wealth and lives. Allah has granted a rank higher to those who strive hard, fighting Jihad with their wealth and bodies to those who sit (at home).
Unto each has Allah promised good, but He prefers Jihadists who strive hard and fight above those who sit home. He has distinguished his fighters with a huge reward.?

Bukhari:V4B52N44 ?A man came to Allah?s Apostle and said, ?Instruct me as to such a deed as equals Jihad
in reward.? He replied, ?I do not find such a deed.??

Bukhari:V1B2N25 ?Allah?s Apostle was asked, ?What is
the best deed?? He replied, ?To believe in Allah and His Apostle Muhammad.? The questioner then asked, ?What is the next best in goodness?? He replied, ?To participate in Jihad, religious fighting in Allah's Cause.??

Qur?an 33:22 ?Among the Believers are men who have been true to their covenant with Allah and have gone
out for Jihad (holy fighting). Some have completed their vow to extreme and have been martyred fighting and dying in His Cause, and some are waiting, prepared for death in battle.?

Qur?an 47:4 ?When you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah?s Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or
ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam.?

If they tell you that Jihad is a ?spiritual struggle?, they?re lying. ?A man asked Allah?s Apostle, ?Who is the best Muslim?? The Prophet replied, ?A believer who strives in Allah?s Cause,? i.e., Jihad, ?with his life and property. That one sounds suspiciously like an approval for suicide, doesn?t it? And there?s a verse just like it in the Qur?an. Okay. Same chapter, next verse. ?Allah?s Messenger said, ?Allah guarantees to admit the Mujahadin in His Cause into Paradise if they are killed; or Allah will return them home safely with war booty. Paradise if you?re killed fighting for him, booty if you?re not. Number 1207: ??Paradise has one hundred levels which Allah has reserved for the Mujahadin who fight in His Cause. ?I heard the Prophet saying, ?Jihad will bring about either a reward in the hereafter or booty in this world.?? Well, now we know where they get this lame-brained idea of paradise being a reward for murder. ??I heard the Prophet saying, ?Paradise will be granted to the first batch of my followers who will undertake a naval expedition.? ? Then, ??The first army amongst my followers who will invade Caesar?s city will be forgiven their sins.? ?? Chapter seven: ?Allah?s Messenger said, ?By Him who holds my soul, whomever is wounded in Allah?s Cause, his wound will have the smell of musk perfume in Paradise.?? Chapter eight: ?If Allah gives me a chance to fight Infidels, Allah will see how bravely I can fight.?? ?Muhammad said, ?Embrace Islam first, then fight.? So he became a Muslim and was martyred. Allah?s Apostle said, ?A little work, but a great reward.?? Sure sounds like a peace-loving religion to me?great rewards for fighting.? Here's a good one. ?Gabriel said to the Prophet, ?Why have you have put down your arms? By Allah, I have not put down mine yet.? The Prophet said, ?Where does Allah want me to go now?? Gabriel answered, ?This way,? pointing toward the tribe of Beni Quraidha.? The Jews. ?So Allah?s Messenger went out toward them.? Then, if you recall, the peace-loving founder of the peace-loving religion lined up all the Jewish men along a trench and cut their heads off. And just in case that wasn?t peace-loving enough, he sold the women and children into slavery?all with Allah?s blessing and a little angelic assistance.
So there are several examples of Prophet-Man personally encouraging his followers to go to war, to kill infidels. In each case, the reward is booty or paradise. This is about as peace-loving as the Mongol Horde. The fact is, Islam is all about war. This garbage goes on and on. And here?s why they follow their thugs so blindly. ?The Prophet said, ?It is obligatory for one to obey a Muslim ruler?s orders.? The Prophet also said, ?To enter Paradise you must obey me, and he who obeys me obeys Allah. He who obeys the Muslim chief, obeys me. Muslims should fight for the Imam. ?? Islam is all about submission.


3- may i ask u some questions Devildog?
-have u ever been to Islamic country? No
-have u got any certificate on Islamic studies? No
- have u ever discussed any Islamic issues with muslims? Yes
 
thank u so much Devildog.
No problem. I look forward to your thread. Let me know if your questions weren't answered.


Old Post 05-05-2004 05:35 PM
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dala3
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post #20  quote:

so, which god do muslims believe in?

who sent the Qur?an?

who is their prophet?

which one of Islamic issues have u discussed ?


Old Post 05-06-2004 05:21 AM
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post #21  quote:

quote:
devildog said this in post #19 :
[QUOTE]dala3 said this in post #17 :
[B][size=3]Thank u so much logan.
 
 
Hi devildog,
I have some comments about what u said:
1- u said (Islam is Pagan religion founded by a thief, liar, rapist, murderer, plunderer, and pedophile to name a few of Mo's redeeming qualities. )
 
how is that?

Every one of these issues have been proven. If you care to be more specific as to which one you want proof of first, I will gladly supply.

we know that Muslims believe in God
also, they have a holy book was sent by him
and prophet was sent by him,too.
so, they are like Christians and Jews.
 

Muslims do not believe in the same God as represented in the Hebrew Bible. Make no mistake about that. They do not have a holy book and it was sent by no one. It is anything but insired or devine. In fact it is ridiculous. And Mo performed not one single miracle or prophesy.


I would like your proof on what make Mohammad a thief, liar, rapist, murderer, plunderer, and pedophile.

Your view on whether or not the Muslims received their Holy Book from a higher source or not is your opinion only. I do not neccessarily believe that any religious texts came from any higher source, but I don't go around calling anyone who does belive in any religion or religous text ridiculous.


Old Post 05-06-2004 08:53 AM
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devildog
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post #22  quote:

quote:
dala3 said this in post #20 :

so, which god do muslims believe in?

They worship the "head" stone at a pagan rock shrine( Ka'aba ).
Here is proof that Yahweh, is not their God.


Qur?an 5:17 ?Verily they are disbelievers and infidels who say, ?The Messiah, son of Mary, is God.??

Qur?an 5:51 ?Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other.?

Qur?an 5:72 ?They are surely infidels who blaspheme and say: ?God is Christ, the Messiah, the son of Mary.?


Ishaq:552 ?The Quraysh had put pictures in the Ka?aba including two of Jesus and one of Mary. Muhammad ordered that the pictures should be erased.?

Qur?an 5:73 ?They are surely disbelievers who blaspheme and say: ?God is one of three in the Trinity for there is no Ilah (God) except One, Allah. If they desist not from saying this (blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall them?the disbelievers will suffer a painful doom.? It's all about pain in Islam

Qur?an 5:75 ?The Messiah, Christ, the son of Mary, was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had to eat their food. See how Allah does make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded!?

Qur?an 4:157 ??We [Jews] killed the Messiah, Jesus,? but they killed him not, nor crucified him. It appeared so to them (as the resemblance of Jesus was put over another man and they killed that man). Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself. Those who differ with this version are full of doubts. They have no knowledge and follow nothing but conjecture. For surely they killed him not.?

Qur?an 4:171 ?O People of the Book! Do not exaggerate in your religion; nor speak lies of Allah. The Messiah, Christ Jesus, the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not ?Trinity.? Cease and Desist: (it is) better for you: for Allah is one Ilah (God). (Far it is removed from him of) having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. The Messiah is proud to be a slave of Allah, as are the angels, those nearest. Those who disdain His worship and are arrogant. He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer)?. He will punish with a painful doom; Nor will they find, besides Allah, any to protect or save them.?

Qur?an 5:77 ?Say (Muhammad): ?People of the Book, do not overstep the bounds in your religion, or follow the people who erred and led many astray. Cursed are the unbelievers among the Children of Israel by David and Jesus.... They do vile things, allying themselves with the infidels so that Allah?s indignation is upon them and in torment they will suffer for all eternity.?

[Another translation reads:] ?Curses were pronounced on the unbelievers, the Children of Israel who rejected Islam, by the tongues of David and of Jesus because they disobeyed and rebelled.?

Qur?an 5:80 ?You see many of them allying themselves with the unbelieving infidels. Vile indeed are their souls. Allah?s wrath is on them, and in torment will they abide.?

Qur?an 5:81 ?If only they had believed in Allah, in the Prophet, and in what had been revealed to him.?

Qur?an 5:82 ?You will find the Jews and disbelievers [defined as Christians in 5:73] the most vehement in hatred for the Muslims.?

I could list a thousand more, but I think you get the picture. Islam claims that Jesus was only a Prophet, not the messiah. He was not the son of God, nor was he even crusified. This should be proof enough that the God of the Bible and the God of the Qu'ran are in no way similar.


who sent the Qur?an?

Muhammad claimed that the Qur?an was a series of revelations he received from Allah through the angel Gabriel. The inspirational experiences were described by Muhammad to be like a bell, clanging in his head, causing him to shake and sweat profusely. Muhammad admitted to have also received revelations directly from Satan. Known as the ?Satanic verses,? al-Tabari records in his History under ?Muhammad at Mecca? that ?Satan Cast a False Revelation on the Messenger of God?s Tongue.? Muhammad?s admission that, ?I have fabricated things against Allah and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken.? confirms that Muhammad was demon possessed.The only person who attempted to write down all of the Qur?anic revelations while Muhammad was still alive was killed by order of Muhammad. According to the Hadith, Abdallah bin Sa?d became concerned that some of the phraseology didn?t sound godly, so he suggested enhancements. When Muhammad accepted his edits, Abdallah rejected Islam. He recognized that the Qur?an couldn?t be from god if he, a scribe, could copyedit it. Tabari V888:178 goes on to report that ?When the Messenger entered Mecca he ordered that the following men should be killed... first among them was Abdallah bin Sa?d.? Clearly Abdallah bin Sa?d knew too much.
Allah says the Qur?an was Arabic because ?the Pen? wrote the Qur?an before man was created. Bear with me here. It will tie in. Surah 046.002 says, ?And before it the Book of Musa [Moses] was a guide: and this [Qur?an] is a Book verifying (it) in the Arabic language.? And in 039.027 we find: (It is) a Qur?an in Arabic, without any crookedness (therein): in order that they may guard (against evil).? Surah 041.003 tell us that: l; a Qur?an in Arabic, for people who have knowledge.? Then in 041.044 we find that: ?Had We sent this as a Qur?an (in the language) other than Arabic, they would have said: ?Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a foreign tongue, a Book) not in Arabic and (a Messenger) an Arab?? Say (unto them, Muhammad): ?It is a Guide to those who believe; and for those who do not believe it, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes)!??


There are problems with the Arabic theory, however. The oldest Qur?an fragments date to around 725 A.D.?a century after they were first recited. Arabic, especially in written form, is a recent phenomenon linguistically. Not only wasn?t it one of man?s earliest languages, it was derived from a language that predated it by at least 3,000 years, having evolved among Syrian Christians as a stylistic derivative of Aramaic in the 6th century A.D. There is no evidence that written Arabic even existed in Mecca until after the Qur?an was revealed. Therefore, it couldn?t have been the language of Allah if, as the Qur?an and Hadith attest, written scrolls were given to Adam, Abraham, Moses, and Jesus prior to the time written Arabic was even conceived. Even then, the Qur?an is filled with many non-Arabic words and phrases, including the word ?qur?an,? which the Syrian Christians defined as ?to recite? or ?to preach.? Arthur Jeffrey, in his book Foreign Vocabulary of the Qur?an devoted 300 pages to this study. One must wonder why these words were borrowed, as they refute the ?pure Arabic? claim and put doubt on whether ?Allah?s language? was sufficient to explain what he intended. Thus the assertion that the Qur?an is pure Arabic and was thusly written on ?Eternal Tablets? in Heaven is false!
In addition, during the Qur?an?s first century, the emerging Arabic alphabet did not have diacritical points( impossible to tell one word from another), and some of its letters were omitted. Among other problems for the veracity of the Qur?an are the differing versions, even in Muhammad?s day. Bukhari?s Hadith reports: ?Ibn Abbas asked, ?Which of the two readings of the Qur?an do you prefer?? The Prophet answered, ?The reading of Abdallah ibn Mas?ud.? Then Abdallah came to him, and he learned what was altered and abrogated.? Another Bukhari Hadith claims that: ?Umar was sitting with Abu Bakr and was speaking (to) me. ?You are a wise young man and we do not suspect you of telling lies or of forgetfulness. You used to write the Divine Inspiration for Allah?s Apostle. Therefore, look for the Qur?an and collect it (in one manuscript).? By Allah, if Abu Bakr had ordered me to shift one of the mountains (from its place) it would have been easier for me than the collection of the Qur?an. I said to both of them, ?How dare you do a thing which the Prophet has not done???

The Qur?an wasn?t, therefore, as Allah claims--a book memorialized on heavenly tablets--but was instead comprised of an evolving text. It was verbally passed down. The oldest Qur?ans differ from one another and from today?s version. The original written copies were devoid of the diacritical points, so most words had to be chosen and their meaning interpreted two centuries after the Qur?an was revealed orally. It?s not pure Arabic as Allah claims, and there are a plethora of foreign words. There are also missing words, wrong words, and meaningless words, as well. And most importantly, the leading authority of the initial script of the Qur?an, studying the oldest fragments says: ?One out of every five verses is indecipherable?meaningless in any language.?


who is their prophet?

Mohammed is the lone Prophet of Islam. However the term "prophet" is eroneous due to: he performed no miracles, no Prophesies, didn't heal the sick, didn't make the blind see, didn't raise the dead, and certainly didn't beat death.

which one of Islamic issues have u discussed ?


All issues, probably. Islam provides only one prime source of information on Muhammad and the formation of Islam written within two centuries of the time he lived and it was conceived. Ishaq?s Sira, or Biography, stands alone?a singular and tenuous thread connecting us to a very troubled man and time. Over the next two hundred years other Hadith Collections were compiled by the likes of Tabari, Bukhari, and Muslim. Their assemblages of oral reports, or Traditions, were said to have been inspired by Allah. They purport to convey Muhammad?s words and example. They also explain the Qur?an?a book so deficient in context and chronology, it can only be understood when seen through the eyes of the Sunnah writers. The quickest and surest way to gain an accurate appreciation of who Muhammad was and what he preached is to review the eyewitness testimony. The Islamic Hadith and Qur?an have retained 400 reports from those who knew Muhammad. Their observations and conclusions are identical to my own.


Old Post 05-06-2004 04:46 PM
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post #23  quote:

quote:
schmiggens said this in post #21 :


I would like your proof on what make Mohammad a thief, liar, rapist, murderer, plunderer, and pedophile.



I have to run out for a few, but I will answer these easily when I return.


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post #24  quote:

quote:
schmiggens said this in post #21 :


I would like your proof on what make Mohammad a thief, liar, rapist, murderer, plunderer, and pedophile.



Was Mo a terrorist? Yes, he was a terrorist and I can prove it using the most respected Islamic sources. Muslims are terrorizing the world based solely on Muhammad?s words and deeds. Webster defines terrorism as: ?the use of violence or threats to intimidate or coerce for political purposes, a state of fear or submission.? According to the most venerated Islamic sources, Muhammad routinely brutalized civilians, robbing them, killing thousands, torturing some, raping others, and selling many more into slavery. His motives were political and financial. A failure as a religious prophet, Muhammad became a political profiteer, pillaging his way to prosperity. Muhammad?s willingness to lie, cheat, kill, kidnap for ransom, rape, deceive, swindle, and worse are chronicled in painstaking detail throughout the most treasured Islamic traditions.

In Yathrib, today?s Medina, Muhammad became more of a political leader than a religious prophet. He built an economy based upon plunder, and built his ranks by legitimizing booty. Muhammad led his gang on some 20 raids. The Muslim historians call them expeditions. All but one were against civilian targets. At sword point, they sacked villages and caravans. According to the historians Tabari and Ishaq, his motives were to strike fear into the hearts of Arabs and Jews, intimidate them into submission, and coerce them to relinquish their possessions. Muhammad was a textbook terrorist. He even said so: ?I have been made victorious with terror.?

Why do you suppose that the oldest, and most universally respected Islamic history portrays Muhammad as a terrorist, pirate, assassin, and slave trader? Why does the most revered Islamic Hadith, that of al-Bukhari, and the earliest Muslim biography, that of Ibn Ishaq, agree? And if Muhammad wasn?t a warrior, and terrorist, why was it necessary for Allah to endorse such behaviors in the Qur?an? Listen to these verses from their own scriptures. From the Hadith of al-Bukhari, the Book of Jihad, verse 1204: ?A man asked Allah?s Messenger, ?Guide me to a deed that equals Jihad in reward.? Muhammad replied, ?There is no such deed.?? Incidentally the professor who translated this volume said: ?Jihad is holy fighting in Allah?s cause with maximum force and weaponry. It is the most important part of Islam. By Jihad Islam is established, made superior, and propagated. If Jihad is forsaken, Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position. Their honor is lost and their lands are stolen. Their rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim.? Islam is a war manifesto.

From Qur?an, Surah 5:33: ?The punishment for those that attack Allah and His Prophet and perpetrate disorders in the land is to kill or crucify them. Such is their disgrace in this world and in the hereafter, their doom shall be dreadful.?

Or from Qur?an 8:59: ?The infidels,? defined as Christians in surah 5:72, ?should not think that they can get away. Prepare against them whatever arms and cavalry you can muster and strike terror.? And from the Hadith, ?Muhammad said, ?Allah guarantees to admit fighters in his cause into paradise if they are killed or Allah will return them home safely with war booty if they survive.?? Or, also from the lips of the peace-loving Prophet, ?Allah will endow a person with an understanding of the Qur?an, so that he understands the ransom of blood-money for captives and the judgment that no Muslim should be killed for killing an infidel.? Islam is a license to kidnap and kill.

Was Muhammad a pedophile?
Yes. Muhammad may have been the most evil person to step foot on our troubled planet. Muhammad was much worse than merely a raping, incestuous, terrorist pedophile. Within weeks of the death of his first wife, Khadija, Muhammad went to his best friend and most loyal Muslim comrade, Abu Bekr. Muhammad said he wanted Bekr?s six-year-old daughter ?sexually. The Islamic sources say she was cute and they claim that the Prophet waited until she was 8 or 9 before he consummated the relationship. However, Muhammad was 53. There is a perfectly good word to describe the behavior of a 53-year-old man preying sexually on a 6 to 9-year-old girl.

Let?s try one that?s less violent. Was Muhammad a sexist?
A: The Qur?an says that women are worth half as much as men and that husbands can do whatever they want to their wives. In the Hadith, Muhammad says Hell is filled with women. My favorite example of Muhammad?s sexism is the Satanic Verses. First, Islam?s prophet says that Satan made him say that Allah?s pagan daughters, the idols al-Lat, Manat, and al-Uzza, were Muslim goddesses that could be used as intermediaries. When his followers deserted him in droves, calling the assertion pagan, Muhammad went from the fire to the frying pan. He said that since al-Lat, Manat, and al-Uzza were females, it couldn?t be, because it wasn?t fair for men to have sons and for god to have only daughters.


Let?s switch gears. How about ?womanizer??
A: Let me tell you a quick story about his Coptic concubine. Islam says that a man can have up to four wives so long as he treats them fairly. But evidently, the concubine was hot in bed, so Muhammad started shortchanging his other wives (12 of them) in violation of the Qur?an. When the wives had a fit, Muhammad claimed that he received word directly from Allah that he was to enjoy her as often as he wanted, and that if his wives complained he could trade all of them in for virgins. To which Aisha(wife) said, ?Your Lord sure seems eager to satisfy your desires.? In an al-Bukhari Hadith, Muhammad said that the things he loved most were women and perfume. The Qur?an even approves of sex slaves.


what about incest?
A: Muslim historians say that the most beautiful woman in Medina was the prophet?s adopted son?s wife, Zaynab. One day while Zayd, his son, was out on a Muslim raid, Muhammad went into Zaynab?s tent, saw her undressed and lusted. His son, knowing who was boss, and knowing what dad did to those that displeased him, dispatched Zaynab to his father. The prophet said Allah condoned incest, at least in his case, and married his son?s wife.

Being a womanizer and sexist isn?t good. Pedophilia and incest are bad. How about rape?
A: Once again there are many examples from the history of Tabari and the biography of Ishaq. The most disgusting takes place during the genocide of the Jewish Nadeer and Khaybar tribes. One of Muhammad?s thugs asked the boss if he could take a sex slave from among the captives. The prophet approved. But then seeing that his henchman had picked the prettiest one, he reneged and took her for himself. So as not to disappoint his fellow militant, Muhammad offered him her two cousins. He could be so charitable.

Can we double up on ?liar? and ?assassin??
A: In the Hadith, there are a dozen or more stories like the one I?m going to share. In fact, none of the examples I have given stand alone. They are all part of a pattern of behavior. And they are all dutifully recorded in graphic detail throughout the best Islamic sources. Muhammad?s favorite assassination targets were poets, the journalists of his day. The first was a Jewish man named Ka?bb al-Ashraf. Muhammad said, ?Who will rid me of al-Ashraf?? One of the Muslim militants said, ?I will kill him for you but to get close enough, I will have to tell lies.? ?Say whatever you like. You are absolved in the matter.? In other words, so long as you are acting in the interest of Muhammad or Islam it?s okay to deceive and murder. To show you how sick Muhammad was, the story in Tabari goes on to say that when the prophet got word of the assassination, he told Muslims, ?Kill any Jew who falls into your hands.? And they did.

How about proof in the Qur?an that Muhammad was ?demonic? or a ?plagiarizer??
A: Everywhere you look. Let?s start with plagiarizer. Ninety percent of the characters and stories in the Qur?an were lifted from the Bible. So either god ran out of good material or somebody needed help sounding religious. The stories are twisted with a purpose and repeated dozens of times. While Muhammad is named four times in the Qur?an, Abraham comes up in 250 verses and Moses stars in over 500. On ?demonic,? my favorite is the story of the jinn, or demons, loving Muhammad and listening to the Qur?an. In the Hadith, Muhammad claims that Satan urinates in Muslim ears when they miss their morning prayer. By its own admission in what is known as the ?Satanic Verses,? the Islamic scriptures state that Satan had ?cast words into his [Muhammad?s] recitation, as he had interjected them on Muhammad?s tongue and into his desires.?

More evidence of ?delusion??
A: Aisha, the prophet?s child wife, has some great quotes in the Hadith. She said that Muhammad was bewitched, and that he imagined doing things he had not actually done. Then she said that Muhammad had never seen Allah, even though Muhammad claims to have met with Allah and to have been his messenger. Aisha tells us that Muhammad blamed the Jews for putting a curse on him and making him ill. Then he claims to have foiled the curse by blowing on some knots.

Proof that Muhammad ?kidnapped for ransom? and was a ?slave trader??
A: Islam was the only religion to grow out of a battle?a skirmish called Bedr. When the Muslims from Medina beat the merchants from Mecca, they carted off the merchants and sold them back to their families for a ransom. As for slave trading, the Qur?an encourages it. Virtually every Muslim ?expedition? ended with the capture and sale of slaves.

?Thief? and ?pirate??
A: The Muslim economy was based on theft. In fact, until Muhammad became a pirate and started raiding caravans, both he and Islam were failures. The first successful armed assault took place just outside Mecca. Unfortunately, the Muslim militants killed one of the merchants during the pagan holy month of Rajab. Carting the booty and kidnap victims back to Muhammad, the Muslims were incensed, but not the prophet. Allah said that killing was justifiable and that booty was commendable.


Allah has a rather vivid imagination. You wanna know how he describes heaven? It?s a drunken orgy. Every guy gets two virgins and all the booze he can drink. If he dies a martyr, bombing our buildings and killing women he gets seventy virgins and perpetual erections.

How can you quickly figure out that Islam is a fraud?

Terrorists don?t made good prophets. Muhammad?s life was so hellish, his character was so evil, there?s no chance he could have shown anyone the way to heaven. Second, Islam condemns itself when Allah says that he inspired the Torah, the Gospels, and the Qur?an. Yet the god of Islam and the path to him are radically different from the God and path presented in Judeo-Christianity. Third, since Muhammad based the Qur?an on the Bible, and since his version is different, one of the two must be untrue. Since the original is detailed and validated in a historical context and the other isn?t even chronological, and since one was written by the Jewish eyewitness to the godly events, prophecies, and miracles and the other was recounted by an illiterate Arab, an enemy of the Jews, who did none of these things, it isn?t hard to determine which one isn?t telling the truth. Fourth, the Qur?an is laughably contradictory. And fifth, there is no chance that goodness, truth, god, and heaven are as Muhammad described them. I could go on for hours and talk about how Allah was simply the moon god promoted to supreme deity, or the nature of the pagan Ka?aba being transformed into a monotheistic shrine. But the words, deeds, and life of Muhammad are sufficient to convince anyone that Islam is a fraud. I hope this sheds light.


Old Post 05-06-2004 08:18 PM
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NadyaElqadi
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post #25  quote:

I'd like to hang "devildog" from a Fallujah bridge and let the locals treat him like a pinata.

[Edit: Unecessary inflammatory prejudice remark]

NadyaTElqadi@aol.com


Last edited by Sierradaddy on 05-07-2004 at 01:25 AM |
Old Post 05-07-2004 12:06 AM
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devildog
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post #26  quote:

quote:
NadyaElqadi said this in post #25 :
I'd like to hang "devildog" from a Fallujah bridge


Almost as much as I'd like to see you try


Old Post 05-07-2004 02:54 AM
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schmiggens
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post #27  quote:

quote:
devildog said this in post #22 :
I could list a thousand more, but I think you get the picture. Islam claims that Jesus was only a Prophet, not the messiah. He was not the son of God, nor was he even crusified. This should be proof enough that the God of the Bible and the God of the Qu'ran are in no way similar.

I don't understand this statement, why do you care whether they have the same God as Christians? Islamics have never claimed that they have the same God as Christians.

Buddhists and Raelians have TOTALLY different Gods to Christians and I don't see you slagging them off at every opportunity


who sent the Qur?an?

Muhammad claimed that the Qur?an was a series of revelations he received from Allah through the angel Gabriel.

How is this any different to how Moses received his instructions from God? How you can call one mans conversation with God crazy and another mans conversation with God real is beyond me. People either talk to God or they don't. You can't have it both ways.

Mohammed is the lone Prophet of Islam. However the term "prophet" is eroneous due to: he performed no miracles, no Prophesies, didn't heal the sick, didn't make the blind see, didn't raise the dead, and certainly didn't beat death.

The Mormon prophet Joseph Smith also never performed any miracles, healed anyone or raised the dead, or beat death. And you don't seem to be overly bashing Mormons.

Name me one prophet who has done any of these things. Jesus does not count as he is not considered a prophet he is considered the son of God

Islam has this to say on prophets:

quote:
The Prophet is no more than a servant of God. He was to make people servants of God and not servants of himself. At least seventeen times a day Muslims recite in prayers: "I bear witness that Mohammad (pbuh) is a servant of God and is His prophet." The Quran leaves no doubt that the Prophet is but a human being and has no share whatsoever in Divinity. The Prophet is neither superhuman nor is he free of human weaknesses. He owns no treasure of God, nor does he possess knowledge of the unknown to make him all knowing like God Almighty. Leave alone being able to benefit others or cause them harm, the Prophet (pbuh) cannot do so even in respect of himself. The precise task of the Prophet is to communicate the message of God. He has no powers to make people righteous and faithful. Nor can he call to account those who refuse to believe, and he certainly has no power to punish them for their disbelief. Mohammad (pbuh) is one of the Prophets of God, and above that he has no status. He cannot by himsel f prohibit or permit any thing. Without a mandate from God he cannot legislate for the people. He has to strictly conform to Divine commandments. Islam ensured that the believers should not turn the Prophet into a demi-god. Some of the earlier prophet s suffered this fate at the hands of their followers. They attributed all kinds of supernatural powers to their leaders and made them into God's equal or progeny or incarnation. By discouraging such exaggeration, Islam has established the true position of the Prophet as follows:

No one can claim to be a believer without believing in the Prophet. He who obeys the Prophet, in fact, obeys God. God has not designated any Prophet except to be obeyed according to His will. The path of the Prophet is the path of Divine guidance. Wh atever the Prophet ordains must be accepted, and whatever he instructs to avoid must be avoided. The Prophet clarified this when he said: I am a mortal like you. In matters revealed to me by God, you must obey my instructions. But you know more about your own worldly affairs than I do. The Sunnah of Mohammad (pbuh) is, in fact, an exposition of the purpose of the Quran, and this exposition too was conveyed to the Prophet by God Himself, as the author of the Quran. The Prophet's explanation of the Qu ran enjoys Divine Sanction, and no one else can interpret the Quran in a way which may be in conflict with or repugnant to the explanation given by Prophet. God declared the life of Mohammad (pbuh) as a model life. Before deciding any matter Muslims mus t ascertain whether any analogous matter was decided earlier by God and His Prophet, and if a precedent exists they must follow it.

God conveyed, through the Prophet to mankind, not only a supreme law but also a permanent scheme of values. That which is good, according to the Quran and the Sunnah, is good for all times, and that which is evil, shall remain evil forever. In this la w no amendment, deletion, addition or abrogation is possible unless some person or community decide to renounce Islam.

http://www.themodernreligion.com

They never cliam that prophets do anything buy pass on the word of God, they are not there to perform miracles or anything else.



Old Post 05-07-2004 03:40 AM
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devildog
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post #28  quote:

I'm trying to respond but it isn't displaying correctly when I push "quote". Therefore I will answer these tomorrow.

Old Post 05-07-2004 04:01 AM
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schmiggens
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post #29  quote:

[QUOTE]devildog said this in post #24 :
Was Mo a terrorist? Yes, he was a terrorist and I can prove it using the most respected Islamic sources. Muslims are terrorizing the world based solely on Muhammad?s words and deeds.

SOME Muslims are terrorizing people based on the words of the Qu'ran. But SOME Christians twist the words of the Bible to terrorise blacks, and gays. Once again, I don't see you championing against these crimes.

According to the most venerated Islamic sources, Muhammad routinely brutalized civilians, robbing them, killing thousands, torturing some, raping others, and selling many more into slavery. His motives were political and financial.

A failure as a religious prophet, Muhammad became a political profiteer, pillaging his way to prosperity.

Failure as a prophet? He is their ONLY prophet loved my millions of Muslims and praised as the founder of their faith

Muhammad?s willingness to lie, cheat, kill, kidnap for ransom, rape, deceive, swindle, and worse are chronicled in painstaking detail throughout the most treasured Islamic traditions.

Up to the age of forty, Muhammad was not known as a statesman, a preacher or an orator. He was never seen discussing the principles of metaphysics, ethics, law, politics, economics or sociology.

But when he came out of the Cave (HIRA) with a new message, he was completely transformed. Is it possible for such a person of the above qualities to turn all of a sudden into 'an impostor' and claim to be the Prophet of Allah and invite all the rage of his people? One might ask: for what reason did he suffer all those hardships? His people offered to accept him as their King and he would leave the preaching of his religion. But he chose to refuse their tempting offers and go on preaching his religion single-handedly in face of all kinds of insults, social boycott and even physical assault by his own people.


In Yathrib, today?s Medina, Muhammad became more of a political leader than a religious prophet. He built an economy based upon plunder, and built his ranks by legitimizing booty. Muhammad led his gang on some 20 raids. The Muslim historians call them expeditions. All but one were against civilian targets. At sword point, they sacked villages and caravans.

According to the historians Tabari and Ishaq, his motives were to strike fear into the hearts of Arabs and Jews, intimidate them into submission, and coerce them to relinquish their possessions. Muhammad was a textbook terrorist. He even said so: ?I have been made victorious with terror.?

Read the following writings of the Western authors:

"This man moved not only armies, legislations, empires, peoples and dynasties, but millions of men in one-third of the then inhabited world; and more than that, he moved the altars, the gods, the religions, the ideas, the beliefs and souls. . . his forbearance in victory, his ambition, which was entirely devoted to one idea and in no manner striving for an empire; his endless prayers, his mystic conversations with God, his death and his triumph after death; all these attest not to an imposture but to a firm conviction which gave him the power to restore a dogma. This dogma was twofold, the unity of God and the immateriality of God; the former telling what God is, the latter telling what God is not; the one overthrowing false gods with the sword, the other starting an idea with words."

"Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of ideas, restorer of rational dogmas, of a cult without images; the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?"
Lamartine, HISTOIRE DE LA TURQUIE, Paris, 1854, Vol. II, pp. 276-277.

"He was Caesar and Pope in one; but he was Pope without Pope's pretensions, Caesar without the legions of Caesar: without a standing army, without a bodyguard, without a palace, without a fixed revenue; if ever any man had the right to say that he ruled by the right divine, it was Mohammed, for he had all the power without its instruments and without its supports."
Bosworth Smith, MOHAMMAD AND MOHAMMADANISM, London, 1874, p. 92.

"His readiness to undergo persecutions for his beliefs, the high moral character of the men who believed in him and looked up to him as leader, and the greatness of his ultimate achievement - all argue his fundamental integrity. To suppose Muhammad an impostor raises more problems than it solves. Moreover, none of the great figures of history is so poorly appreciated in the West as Muhammad."
W. Montgomery Watt, MOHAMMAD AT MECCA, Oxford, 1953, p. 52.

"Like almost every major prophet before him, Muhammad fought shy of serving as the transmitter of God's word, sensing his own inadequacy. But the angel commanded "Read." So far as we know, Muhammad was unable to read or write, but he began to dictate those inspired words which would soon revolutionize a large segment of the earth: "There is one God."

"In all things Muhammad was profoundly practical. When his beloved son Ibrahim died, an eclipse occurred, and rumours of God's personal condolence quickly arose. Whereupon Muhammad is said to have announced, "An eclipse is a phenomenon of nature. It is foolish to attribute such things to the death or birth of a human being." "At Muhammad's own death an attempt was made to deify him, but the man who was to become his administrative successor killed the hysteria with one of the noblest speeches in religious history: "If there are any among you who worshipped Muhammad, he is dead. But if it is God you worshipped, He lives forever."
James A. Michener, "ISLAM: THE MISUNDERSTOOD RELIGION," in READER'S DIGEST (American edition), May 1955, pp. 68-70.

ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA confirms:

"....a mass of detail in the early sources show that he was an honest and upright man who had gained the respect and loyalty of others who were like-wise honest and upright men."

MAHATMA GANDHI, speaking on the character of Muhammad, (pbuh) says in (YOUNG INDIA):

"I wanted to know the best of one who holds today's undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind....I became more than convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to this friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the 2nd volume (of the Prophet's biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of the great life."


Listen to these verses from their own scriptures. From the Hadith of al-Bukhari, the Book of Jihad, verse 1204: ?A man asked Allah?s Messenger, ?Guide me to a deed that equals Jihad in reward.? Muhammad replied, ?There is no such deed.?? Incidentally the professor who translated this volume said: ?Jihad is holy fighting in Allah?s cause with maximum force and weaponry. It is the most important part of Islam. By Jihad Islam is established, made superior, and propagated. If Jihad is forsaken, Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position. Their honor is lost and their lands are stolen. Their rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim.? Islam is a war manifesto.

In the linguistic sense, the Arabic word "jihad" means struggling or striving and applies to any effort exerted by anyone. In this sense, a student struggles and strives to get an education and pass course work; an employee strives to fulfill his/her job and maintain good relations with his/her employer; a politician strives to maintain or increase his(1) popularity with his constituents and so on.

In the West, "jihad" is generally translated as "holy war," a usage the media has popularized. According to Islamic teachings, it is unholy to instigate or start war; however, some wars are inevitable and justifiable.

If we translate the words "holy war" back into Arabic, we find "harbun muqaddasatu," or for "the holy war," "al-harbu al-muqaddasatu." We challenge any researcher or scholar to find the meaning of "jihad" as holy war in the Qur'an or authentic Hadith collections or in early Islamic literature. Unfortunately, some Muslim writers and translators of the Qur'an, the Hadith and other Islamic literature translate the term "jihad" as "holy war," due to the influence of centuries-old Western propaganda.

This could be a reflection of the Christian use of the term "Holy War" to refer to the Crusades of a thousand years ago. However, the Arabic words for "war" are "harb" or "qital," which are found in the Qur'an and Hadith.


From Qur?an, Surah 5:33: ?The punishment for those that attack Allah and His Prophet and perpetrate disorders in the land is to kill or crucify them. Such is their disgrace in this world and in the hereafter, their doom shall be dreadful.?

And Jesus' punishment for challenging the Romans and perpetrating disorder among the people was for him to be crucified. People have been punished in the past for religious matters like this, but to take that ^ seriously is just ridiculous.

Continued ....


Old Post 05-07-2004 04:56 AM
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schmiggens
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post #30  quote:

Was Muhammad a pedophile?
Yes. Muhammad may have been the most evil person to step foot on our troubled planet. Muhammad was much worse than merely a raping, incestuous, terrorist pedophile. Within weeks of the death of his first wife, Khadija, Muhammad went to his best friend and most loyal Muslim comrade, Abu Bekr. Muhammad said he wanted Bekr?s six-year-old daughter ?sexually. The Islamic sources say she was cute and they claim that the Prophet waited until she was 8 or 9 before he consummated the relationship. However, Muhammad was 53. There is a perfectly good word to describe the behavior of a 53-year-old man preying sexually on a 6 to 9-year-old girl.

quote:
Percentage of his wives who were 17years and older = 91 %

The statistics show that the prophet?s marriage to Aisha at her young age was an exception and not a norm of his other marriages. Furthermore ?a pedophile?s main mode of sexual satisfaction is with prepubescent girls?, which is contradictory to the 91% of prophet?s marriage to women 17 years and over. An unbiased examination of Prophet?s life and his marriages to his wives blatantly rejects the notion of his lifestyle fitting that of a pedophile. All his brides were aged widows (except Aisha and Marium).

Moreover, according to the criteria in the references cited above in ?Synopsis of Psychiatry?, a vast majority of pedophiles possess a history of exhibitionism, voyeurism, or rape. Again, there is no single reference from either religious or secular sources that the noble Prophet ever indulged in such sadistic behavior (God forbid). This truth is observed and accepted by both Muslims and unbiased non-Muslims scholars.

"It is impossible for anyone who studies the life and character of the great Prophet of Arabia, who knows how he taught and how he lived, to feel anything but reverence for that mighty Prophet, one of the great messengers of the Supreme. And although in what I put to you I shall say many things which may be familiar to many, yet I myself feel whenever I re-read them, a new way of admiration, a new sense of reverence for that mighty Arabian teacher." ? Annie Besant, THE LIFE AND TEACHINGS OF MUHAMMAD, Madras, 1932, p. 4.

Lets analyze?

* The Prophet married Aisha primarily for three reasons:
* To reinforce the friendly relations already existing with Abu Bakr (his closest companion).
* To educate and train Aisha so she may serve the purposes of Islam.

To teach her to utilize her capabilities for the sake of Islam.
Her Marriage with the prophet was a Wahi (Divine Revelation). She, herself relates from the Prophet, ?He said, "I saw you in dreams three times. The angel brought you to me and you were clad in white silk. He (the angel) said that it was your consort and he (angel) showed me by opening your face. You are just like that?" Sahih Muslim, Vol.2, p.285.

Aisha ? was born after her parents had embraced Islam. Therefore, she was free from the defilement of polytheism right from her birth.

In her youth, already known for her striking beauty and her formidable memory, she came under the loving care and attention of the Prophet himself. As his wife and close companion she acquired from him knowledge and insight such as no woman has ever acquired.

It was the aforementioned qualities of Aisha ? and the Prophet?s guidance in molding these capabilities for the service of Islam, were the main reasons, why the Prophet Married young Aisha ?, and not the perverted reasons brought forth by misguided orientalists.


Let?s try one that?s less violent. Was Muhammad a sexist?
A: The Qur?an says that women are worth half as much as men and that husbands can do whatever they want to their wives. In the Hadith, Muhammad says Hell is filled with women. My favorite example of Muhammad?s sexism is the Satanic Verses. First, Islam?s prophet says that Satan made him say that Allah?s pagan daughters, the idols al-Lat, Manat, and al-Uzza, were Muslim goddesses that could be used as intermediaries. When his followers deserted him in droves, calling the assertion pagan, Muhammad went from the fire to the frying pan. He said that since al-Lat, Manat, and al-Uzza were females, it couldn?t be, because it wasn?t fair for men to have sons and for god to have only daughters.

quote:
In a truely Islamic society women have the following rights in Islam:

1. The right and duty to obtain education.
2. The right to have their own independent property.
3. The right to work to earn money if they need it or want it.
4. Equality of reward for equal deeds.
5. The right to express their opinion and be heard.
6. The right to provisions from the husband for all her needs and more.
7. The right to negotiate marriage terms of her choice.
8. The right to obtain divorce from her husband, even on the grounds that she simply can't stand him. (pls note that God deeply frowns upon divorce as a solution unless there is hardly any other alternative but it does not mean that men have more right to divorce their wives than women do.)
9. The right to keep all her own money (she is not responsible to maintain any relations).
10. The right to get sexual satisfaction from her husband.
11. custody of their children after divorce.
12. to refuse any marriage that does not please them
and more...


Again not the only religion to have extremely sexist laws in place, once again, laws that are no longer in force in most of the world.

Let?s switch gears. How about ?womanizer??
A: Let me tell you a quick story about his Coptic concubine. Islam says that a man can have up to four wives so long as he treats them fairly. But evidently, the concubine was hot in bed, so Muhammad started shortchanging his other wives (12 of them) in violation of the Qur?an. When the wives had a fit, Muhammad claimed that he received word directly from Allah that he was to enjoy her as often as he wanted, and that if his wives complained he could trade all of them in for virgins. To which Aisha(wife) said, ?Your Lord sure seems eager to satisfy your desires.? In an al-Bukhari Hadith, Muhammad said that the things he loved most were women and perfume. The Qur?an even approves of sex slaves.

quote:
In addressing the issue of Prophet Prophet Mohammed's polygynous marriages, it is important to remember several points.

First, Semitic culture in general and Arab practice in particular permitted polygyny. It was common practice in Arabian society, especially among nobles and leaders. Though less common, polygyny was also permitted in biblical and even in postbiblical Judaism. From Abraham, David and Solomon down to the reformation period, polygyny was practised by some Jews. While Jewish law changed after the middle Ages due to the influence of Christian rule, for Jews under Islamic rule, polygyny remained licit, though it was not extensively practised.

Second, during the prime of his life, Prophet Mohammed remained married to one woman, Khadija.

Third, it was only after her death that he took a number of wives.

Fourth, Prophet Mohammed's use of the special dispention from God to exceed the limit of four wives imposed by the Quran, occurred only after the death of Khadija. Morever, most of the eleven marriages had political and social motives. As was customary for Arab chiefs, many were political marriages to cement alliances. Others were marriages to the widows of his companions who had fallen in combat and were in need of protection. Remarriage was difficult in a society that emphasised the importance of virgin marriages.

Aisha was the only virgin that Prophet Prophet Mohammed married and the wife with whom he had the closest relationship.

Fifth, Prophet Prophet Mohammed's teachings and actions, as well as the Quranic message, improved the status of all women - wives, daughters, mothers, widows and orphans.

Talk of the political and social motives behind many of the Prophet's marriages should not obscure the fact that Prophet Mohammed was attracted to women and enjoyed being with his wives. To deny this would contradict the Islamic outlook on marriage and sexuality, found in both revelation and Prophetic traditions, which emphasises the importance of family and views sex as a gift from God to be enjoyed within the bonds of marriage. The many stories about Prophet Mohammed's concern and care for his wives reflect these values.


what about incest?
A: Muslim historians say that the most beautiful woman in Medina was the prophet?s adopted son?s wife, Zaynab. One day while Zayd, his son, was out on a Muslim raid, Muhammad went into Zaynab?s tent, saw her undressed and lusted. His son, knowing who was boss, and knowing what dad did to those that displeased him, dispatched Zaynab to his father. The prophet said Allah condoned incest, at least in his case, and married his son?s wife.

quote:
in?cest - n.
1. Sexual relations between persons who are so closely related that their marriage is illegal or forbidden by custom.
2. The statutory crime of sexual relations with such a near relative.


His ADOPTED son?s WIFE is not a blood relation and that union would be frowned upon by people now-a-days simply because people would find it strange. However, it is by no means against any civil, state, federal, religious, etc laws.

Being a womanizer and sexist isn?t good. Pedophilia and incest are bad. How about rape?
A: Once again there are many examples from the history of Tabari and the biography of Ishaq. The most disgusting takes place during the genocide of the Jewish Nadeer and Khaybar tribes. One of Muhammad?s thugs asked the boss if he could take a sex slave from among the captives. The prophet approved. But then seeing that his henchman had picked the prettiest one, he reneged and took her for himself. So as not to disappoint his fellow militant, Muhammad offered him her two cousins. He could be so charitable.

quote:
Marry: Slaves and Maid Servants; Emancipation, Qur'an 24:27-34 Surah An-Nur (Light): Tell the believing men... And tell the believing women... And marry such of you as are solitary and the pious of your slaves and maid servants. If they be poor; Allah will enrich them of His bounty. Allah is of ample means, Aware. And let those who cannot find a match keep chaste till Allah give them independence by His grace. And such of your slaves as seek a writing of emancipation, write it for them if ye are aware of aught of good in them, and bestow upon them of the wealth of Allah which He hath bestowed upon you. Force not your slave girls to whoredom that ye may seek enjoyment of the life of the world, if they would preserve their chastity. And if one force them, then (unto them), after their compulsion, Lo! Allah will be Forgiving, Merciful...


Can we double up on ?liar? and ?assassin??
A: In the Hadith, there are a dozen or more stories like the one I?m going to share. In fact, none of the examples I have given stand alone. They are all part of a pattern of behavior. And they are all dutifully recorded in graphic detail throughout the best Islamic sources. Muhammad?s favorite assassination targets were poets, the journalists of his day. The first was a Jewish man named Ka?bb al-Ashraf. Muhammad said, ?Who will rid me of al-Ashraf?? One of the Muslim militants said, ?I will kill him for you but to get close enough, I will have to tell lies.? ?Say whatever you like. You are absolved in the matter.? In other words, so long as you are acting in the interest of Muhammad or Islam it?s okay to deceive and murder. To show you how sick Muhammad was, the story in Tabari goes on to say that when the prophet got word of the assassination, he told Muslims, ?Kill any Jew who falls into your hands.? And they did.

quote:
In his day and generation Muhammad was a social reformer, indeed a reformer even in the sphere of morals. He created a new system of social security and a new family structure, both of which were a vast improvement on what went before. In this way he adapted for settled communities all that was best in the morality of the nomad, and established a religious and a social framework for the life of a sixth of the human race today. That is not the work of a traitor or a lecher.[4]

Missionaries just do not stop at the Prophet(P) hilself. There is also something interesting about the Noble Companions of the Prophet(P) that Tisdall has to say:

Whether Abu Hurairah, surnamed The Liar, has spoken the truth in asserting that he heard this passage quoted by Muhammad may well be doubted.[5]

Who calls Abu Hurrairah a lair? A Christain missionary or a Muslim? And this is all there in the book recommended by Jochen. If he thinks that Muslims will sincerely believe that spreading lies against Islam are over, he is sadly mistaken.


More to come, I can't answer it all at once, I have a headache


Old Post 05-07-2004 04:57 AM
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