jrkiv said this in post #44 : Dekka,
I can see what you're saying but i think you would have a difficult time convincing most people that self-awareness is a maladaption. Many would contend that humans are the most successful creature in the history of the planet, and that conciousness is the sole reason for this.
I think we're the most successful creature in history because we have hands with opposable thumbs, the largest brain, and the ability to write and record everything we do so that others can take that recorded material or experience and improve on it.
I'm not sure how consciousness ties in with this. Whatever we are as humans is in our subconscious. Think about how little information can be held in the conscious part of the mind and even that only for a certain amount of time depending on our attention span. On the other hand our subconscious holds our entire life, the majority completely inaccessable under normal circumstances. And yet it's that hidden stuff that allows us to talk and walk and read etc.
From being born, it take babies just a few years to be learn to communicate using anything resembling adult language. This whole process - which has to be about the most complicated thing a human can go through - is done without any self-awareness or a conscious developed mind.
So what's consciousnous for if we can easily learn without it? No doubt people want to enjoy life, now add to this a consciousnous that seems to actually need to watch itself enjoying itself.
This experience can be quite a shock because suddenly you realise that you have been unaware of even being in a car let alone driving it and yet you didn't drive off the road.
noo.. in psyc that's called dissociation, temporal. in cognitive learning, that's called multi-tasking.
back to the subject. the meaning is lumped into a all-in-one category as preliminary understanding. I see it like this:
subliminal programming of culture one lives in (Mind-control)
NLP (neurolinguistic programming, self-hynposis = self-directed mind control)
family gene inheritances (Soul families)
inborn personality matrix theory (Numerology, Astrology)
prebirth blueprints (Soul planning contracts)
Past life theory (PLT,Karma)
all of which is interwoven to create the Jungian subconscious. when in actuality it never existed until there was a consciousness. A chicken-egg dilemma about which creates the socalled "control" in the first place. subconscious is a definition to explain an anomaly you do not fully understand, comprehend the origins of, or lacking the awareness of the working mechanics.
looking at the major possible sources above, I could spend pages explaining just one. such explanation would be off tangent. I will state that the examples above do allude to the consciousness being the pre-control to the sub. it may not seem that way due to level of one's current soul evolution and current body of knowledge.
Previous consciousness will to continue to express itself in the current one via the incarnate being the expression of it. further below is the explanation of it in 3D analogy and mechanics of incarnation.
the basic cosmic premises are: the more evolved the soul is, the more advanced the incarnate soul's operating, cumulative consciousness. Being so makes one more cognizant of the above examples, remember the precontrols and understand why one would choose to create such an experience. it is possibly that a soul would choose, consciously, with guidance of other evolved souls to create a life and forget what was actually planned. there are many experiences in all life the soul hasn't acquired yet. we are all like a bunch of kids in a galactic playground. we may age but we never do as souls.
this is the way of expression in 3-dimensional space. In modern Numerology, the no. 3 is the self-actualized symbol of expressing form of any kind as a manifestation of creative power. whether the soul incarnates to experience being various lifeforms, Physics theorizing our 3D universe to engineering and technology bringing creativity into materialistic, useable forms, is epitome of 3 as self-expression of All Life.
in short, if the soul desires to learn and evolve, it must incarnate into 3D [form of self-expression] by making a conscious decision of free-will.
I'm not sure how consciousness ties in with this. Whatever we are as humans is in our subconscious. Think about how little information can be held in the conscious part of the mind and even that only for a certain amount of time depending on our attention span. On the other hand our subconscious holds our entire life, the majority completely inaccessable under normal circumstances. And yet it's that hidden stuff that allows us to talk and walk and read etc.
the stuff is fully explained under Numerology theory.
From being born, it take babies just a few years to be learn to communicate using anything resembling adult language. This whole process - which has to be about the most complicated thing a human can go through - is done without any self-awareness or a conscious developed mind.
the process is learning to gain self-awareness. the concept of a soul incarnating is an indication it wants to learn and experience. just looking at how a baby grows up and the child develops language comprehension is relative of -the- concept.
jrkiv said this in post #44 : Dekka,
I can see what you're saying but i think you would have a difficult time convincing most people that self-awareness is a maladaption. Many would contend that humans are the most successful creature in the history of the planet, and that conciousness is the sole reason for this.
Admittedly humanity has ruled the earth a fraction of the time the dinosaurs did, but in that short period of time we have become the only species capable of preventing its own extinction, something dinosaurs could not do after millions of years of evolution. Our "destruction of the environment" as you put it is basically another way to put the term 'survival of the fittest.' Since there is only so much pie to go around, our success as a species is unavoidably detrimental to other species, this phenomenon is not limited to humans but happens whenever one species is better adapted than another.
In theory, the human race could outlast the lifespan of our sun by extending beyond our solar system; and while people may argue our success has been so dramatic that it may actually lead to our exctinction, our ability to foresee such an event and prevent it must also be considered.
SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST
Q: What do you have to do to survive on a day to day basis?
A: Breathe and eat.
Q: What do you breathe and eat?
A: We breathe air and eat food?
Q: Where do air and food come from?
A: Air is recycled by plants, in large part the rain forests, so we can breathe (I'm sure you know the details.) Food grows in the ground (I'm sure you know the details of that too.)
Q: What happens when air is polluted?
A: We breathe bad air (perhaps we will physically adapt to this though).
Q: What happens when rain forests are destroyed?
A: Less efficient air recycling (maybe, though doubtful, we can adapt to that too.)
Q: What happens when the ground is polluted and/or all the nutrients are sucked out of it?
A: Famine. In other words, we don't eat.
Q: How can we survive if we can't breathe or eat?
A: We can't.
Q: But what about all our scientific advances? Automobiles and airplanes and electricity. We landed a man on the moon for crying out loud!!!! Can't our technology save us?
A: Not unless the moon is made of cheese........
I wasn't talking about hunting wooly mammoths and dodos to death. I wasn't talking about eliminating the pandas' and bald eagles' natural habitats. I was talking about eliminating ourselves.
The only way to measure success is longevity. We have yet to see if we will pass the test. If we consume all our resources, we won't have any left to advance with. It's simple grade school arithmetic. 1 + 1 = 2.
for some odd reason, while the word "Ganya" was still just a thought-dropping in my head, I thought it'd only be four letters. But apparently it's five. yep.
A man can have three Ph.D's, know the details of quantum chance, know how to build a car from scratch, can make millions in the stock market from his knowledge of economics, and can survive in the woods for years at a time with nothing but a loin cloth and a sturdy stick. But if he walks out in front of a moving bus, he's a moron.
for some odd reason, while the word "Ganya" was still just a thought-dropping in my head, I thought it'd only be four letters. But apparently it's five. yep.
Dekka00 said this in post #50 : A man can have three Ph.D's, know the details of quantum chance, know how to build a car from scratch, can make millions in the stock market from his knowledge of economics, and can survive in the woods for years at a time with nothing but a loin cloth and a sturdy stick. But if he walks out in front of a moving bus, he's a moron.
He's DEAD. No longer a moron. He fought his gene pool and overcame his moronness . He found his way.
Dekka,
The fact that we are aware of the environment and the repricussions our actions have makes us unique and makes it possible for us to prevent such repricussions when the time comes.
And even if we do nothing what will happen? Will all of humanity drop dead all of a sudden and we'll all be extinct in a second? If all this doom and gloom environmental stuff comes true then the worst that will happen is human population will slowly diminish until we reach a new equillibrium with the earth. We may not have longevity as an industrial species of 6 billion, but i believe we have the potential for longevity that far exceeds any creature that has ever lived.
well my point was that all this faith in the spirit of man that we will turn into an intergalactic species and evolve in space is... wishful thinking.
I think it is inevitable that eventually we will revert back to substinence farming and nomadic hunting, because that is the way humans were meant to be, and the only way we can survive for a long time.
When the next asteroid hits Earth, I don't think it's going to be technology that will save us, but wisdom and prudence that will allow us to survive the darkness.
for some odd reason, while the word "Ganya" was still just a thought-dropping in my head, I thought it'd only be four letters. But apparently it's five. yep.
We are a very clever species of monkeys. We've accomplished quite a bit in our short time on Earth.
But if we take all the intelligence we put into waging war and making profit into finding ways to survive more resourcefully, we'd be geniuses.
So we must (and by must I mean we're either going to do it consiously, or we're going to learn the hard way, but it's going to happen) find a way to do that. If we don't we will whither up and die. Survival of the fittest. We are not exempt from evolution. Evolution is a long term process.
for some odd reason, while the word "Ganya" was still just a thought-dropping in my head, I thought it'd only be four letters. But apparently it's five. yep.
(If you take a good, long, objective look around you, and see how we destroy our environment, the very thing that we depend on, it starts to look like maybe we are a miserable failure)
Considering the greatest (in terms of magnitude) accomplishment that consious thought has produced is the nuclear bomb, I think it's reasonable to consider that maybe consiousness is a maladaption since it may lead to the demise of the human race.
well, I know that we're talking about the mind and it's subconsious or otherwise states but this is completely ture, I find.
Here you write this and yet people discrimmiate these "tree-huggers" and call them fanatical freaks or whatever you call them. It's such a shame.
just bare this in mind.; life contridicts itself. it's quite useless to take up one or either side.
It is folly to punish your neighbor by fire when you live next door.
Publilius Syrus
03-02-2004 10:26 PM
