Chat or Talk in the INReview Discussion Forum Chat or Talk in the INReview Discussion Forum
 
register chat members links refer search home
INReview INReview > The Scuttlebutt Lounge > Politics & Government > Taxes > Putting Taxes In Perspective
Search this Thread:
  Print Version | Email Page | Bookmark | Subscribe to Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread   
Staff
Marc Flemming
Renovator

offline
Registered: Jan 2003
Local time: 08:00 AM
Location: Santa Cruz
Posts: 3663

Talking Putting Taxes In Perspective post #1  quote:



Over lunch two friends were discussing the government's recent round of tax cuts:

"I'm opposed to those tax cuts," the retired college instructor declared, "because they benefit the rich. The rich get much more money back than ordinary taxpayers like you and me and that's not fair."

"But the rich pay more in the first place," the businessman argued, "so it stands to reason that they'd get more money back."

He could tell that his friend was unimpressed by this meager argument. Even college instructors are a prisoner of the myth that the "rich" somehow get a free ride in America. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand.

Suppose that every day ten men go to a restaurant for dinner. The bill for all ten comes to $100.

If it was paid the way we pay our taxes, the first four men would pay nothing; the fifth would pay $1; the sixth would pay $3; the seventh $7; the eighth $12; the ninth $18. The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

The ten men ate dinner in the restaurant
every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement until the owner threw them a curve.

"Since you're all such good customers, he said, I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20."

Now dinner for the 10 only costs $80.

The first four are unaffected; they still eat for free. Can you figure out how to divvy up the $20 savings among the remaining six so that everyone gets his fair share?

The men realize that $20 divided by 6 is $3.33, but if they subtract that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would end up being paid to eat their meal.

The restaurant owner proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay under the same assumptions: Now the fifth man
also paid nothing, the sixth pitched in $2, the seventh paid $5, the eighth paid $9, and the ninth paid $12 leaving the
tenth man with a bill of $52 instead of $59.

Outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got a dollar out the $20," complained the sixth man, pointing to the tenth, "and he got $7!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got seven times more than me!"

"That's true," shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $7 back when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. " We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor."

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night he didn't show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and
ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important.

They were $52 short!

And that, boys, girls, and college instructors, is how America's tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show
up at the table any more. After all, there are lots of good restaurants in Switzerland and the Caribbean.


Old Post 01-06-2003 06:42 AM
Click here to Send Marc Flemming a Private Message View Marc Flemming's Journal Visit Marc Flemming's homepage! Find more posts by Marc Flemming Add Marc Flemming to your buddy list Reply w/Quote

1young11
Veteran

offline
Registered: May 2003
Local time: 04:00 PM
Location: Illinois
Posts: 326

post #2  quote:

Excellent post, I wish more people would get passed the programed class warfare and see things for how they are.

Old Post 06-13-2003 04:04 PM
Click here to Send 1young11 a Private Message Find more posts by 1young11 Add 1young11 to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore 1young11 REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

Bush Is A Liar
[Why Pink?] [Ignore User]

offline
Registered: Nov 2003
Local time: 04:00 PM
Location:
Posts: 37

totally stewpit post #3  quote:

the fact is, last year's rich folk aren't necessarily this year's rich folk. you can't even in theory know whether the tax cuts to the rich repaid taxes imposed upon the rich. further, title to the fisc is held by the govt. a big taxpayer has no greater right to public assests than does a poor person. govt has a fid. duty to the commonwealth. diverting needed resources to the rich is theft. Bush is a liar and a theif. and you don't know jack about taxes.

Old Post 12-20-2003 12:40 AM
Click here to Send Bush Is A Liar a Private Message Find more posts by Bush Is A Liar Add Bush Is A Liar to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore Bush Is A Liar REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

becker
Definitively Illumined

offline
Registered: Dec 2003
Local time: 11:00 AM
Location: In my beautiful condo
Posts: 7447

post #4  quote:

I think we all would benefit--rich and poor alike-if the present tax laws were scrapped and a national sales tax were installed. This way we only pay taxes when we buy something. No forms to fill out-no records to keep-Wouldn't this be fair to all? Let me know what you think. BECKER

Old Post 12-20-2003 01:01 AM
Click here to Send becker a Private Message Find more posts by becker Add becker to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore becker REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

Bush Is A Liar
[Why Pink?] [Ignore User]

offline
Registered: Nov 2003
Local time: 04:00 PM
Location:
Posts: 37

sales taxes are regressive post #5  quote:

taxes are generally divided into regressive taxes (that primarily burden the poor) and progressive taxes (that put a greater burden on the rich). Sales taxes are regressive. If the sole and only source of revenue is taken from sales, then the folks who spend every last penny pay more, relatively speaking, than those who don't need to spend all they earn -- namely the rich. So, sales tax is no panacea when it comes to curing the unfairness that some see in an income tax.

Old Post 12-22-2003 06:43 PM
Click here to Send Bush Is A Liar a Private Message Find more posts by Bush Is A Liar Add Bush Is A Liar to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore Bush Is A Liar REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

becker
Definitively Illumined

offline
Registered: Dec 2003
Local time: 11:00 AM
Location: In my beautiful condo
Posts: 7447

post #6  quote:

Sales taxes are regressive only when states levy income taxes plus a sales tax. If America enacted a national sales tax, the rich would pay more since the poor won't spend anything like the affluent, Think of all the loopholes that would disappear. The rich spend millions employing people to help them avoid income taxes. With a National sales tax or "value added" tax all loopholes would be abolished and the high income people would be paying a much larger proportion than they do at the present time. Think about it.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Old Post 12-22-2003 11:47 PM
Click here to Send becker a Private Message Find more posts by becker Add becker to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore becker REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

Marlene Newell
No title, Just me

offline
Registered: Jul 2003
Local time: 08:00 AM
Location: Sunnyvale, California
Posts: 1010

post #7  quote:

quote:
becker said this in post #4 :
I think we all would benefit--rich and poor alike-if the present tax laws were scrapped and a national sales tax were installed. This way we only pay taxes when we buy something. No forms to fill out-no records to keep-Wouldn't this be fair to all? Let me know what you think. BECKER


You've got my vote. Except, I would make a provision that those under the poverty level would be exempt from paying sales taxes on basic commodities. If they want to buy Nike shoes, though, or t-bone steaks, they can pay the same tax as I pay.


Old Post 12-23-2003 01:00 AM
Click here to Send Marlene Newell a Private Message Find more posts by Marlene Newell Add Marlene Newell to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore Marlene Newell REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

Bush Is A Liar
[Why Pink?] [Ignore User]

offline
Registered: Nov 2003
Local time: 04:00 PM
Location:
Posts: 37

vat taxes and sales taxes post #8  quote:

lots of folks think like you. i see things differently. as a chess player, i know there are no losing moves, only losing players. its the same with taxes and govt. an inc. tax, a sales tax, whatever... they all can work, but none will in fact work if the lawmakers that maintain it subvert the integrity of its provisions in exchange for money -- that is, campain contributions. in a country where the repuke akins can buy any favor they want, the tax law can be skewed to favor the rich. whether you have a sales tax or a vat tax or whatever, so long as the greedy repukers can buy polititions and delude the public thru the medea, no tax system will work. same with govt. socialist, commy, "democratic" -- it don't matter here either. get a guy like the Bushit in office and we're back 100 years on some imperiaist adventure to steal resouces from other countries. the repukers are a cancer that is killing the vigor and integrity of america. all repukers are scum , and that's why the nature of the tax system is irrelevant.

Old Post 12-23-2003 07:07 PM
Click here to Send Bush Is A Liar a Private Message Find more posts by Bush Is A Liar Add Bush Is A Liar to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore Bush Is A Liar REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

becker
Definitively Illumined

offline
Registered: Dec 2003
Local time: 11:00 AM
Location: In my beautiful condo
Posts: 7447

post #9  quote:

i would appreciate an analysis of how a national sales or value-added tax would be worse than the current system. I repeat the rich can afford to buy the brains to help them pay as little as possible with our current tax system. I realize people buy their way into office-but where's the connection? And what has Bush got to do with this matter? What's a "repuker"?

Old Post 12-23-2003 07:19 PM
Click here to Send becker a Private Message Find more posts by becker Add becker to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore becker REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

Bush Is A Liar
[Why Pink?] [Ignore User]

offline
Registered: Nov 2003
Local time: 04:00 PM
Location:
Posts: 37

post #10  quote:

quote:
becker said this in post #9 :
i would appreciate an analysis of how a national sales or value-added tax would be worse than the current system.

as i already said, they are regressive. if you want to increase the burden on the poor, sales tax is your answer. again, the rich may spend a lot, but they don't spend all they earn, so some of theire NOw taxable income would go untaxed under a vat or sales tax.



I repeat the rich can afford to buy the brains to help them pay as little as possible with our current tax system.

they could do that with a sales tax also. what's covered? software, intellectual property, capital assets, homes. the running dogs and lakeys of the repukers can write the tax code to exempt yachts, second homes, jets, season tickets, all that shiest the rich consume. so you say, no dam exemptions. well fine, if you did that with an inc tax, all the problems would also be gone. so its not the tax law, its the greedy repukers who will always wreck any system because they value material possessions and don't care about people.




I realize people buy their way into office-but where's the connection?

you are so naive. politicians don't buy there way in, the sell there way in, and what they sell is access to them and exertion of their influence.


And what has Bush got to do with this matter? What's a "repuker"?


bush is the ultimate greedy, liar, worthless, stewpit repuker there has been in a while -- repuker = republican


Old Post 12-23-2003 07:45 PM
Click here to Send Bush Is A Liar a Private Message Find more posts by Bush Is A Liar Add Bush Is A Liar to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore Bush Is A Liar REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

becker
Definitively Illumined

offline
Registered: Dec 2003
Local time: 11:00 AM
Location: In my beautiful condo
Posts: 7447

post #11  quote:

Do you think Clinton was better than Bush? He sold our military secrets to China for campaign money. What's that? Our current tax a lot system is a dinosaur and should be anethasized. We now pay Us income taxes state and city income taxes. Our gross pay takes a 30% or more cut each payday. Then we need a CPA to fill out the overly complicated tax forms. If you like that then I'm wasting my type and time. I don't see any other way to put the kabosh on our present tax system than a sales or value added tax and no exemptions and no paper work or records to keep.

Old Post 12-23-2003 08:23 PM
Click here to Send becker a Private Message Find more posts by becker Add becker to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore becker REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

becker
Definitively Illumined

offline
Registered: Dec 2003
Local time: 11:00 AM
Location: In my beautiful condo
Posts: 7447

post #12  quote:

Believe me the rich are not in favor of this type of taxation or Forbes would have been elected. Why? They would pay a lot more than they pay now. Forbes was for the flat tax system if you recall.

Old Post 12-23-2003 08:26 PM
Click here to Send becker a Private Message Find more posts by becker Add becker to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore becker REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

Bush Is A Liar
[Why Pink?] [Ignore User]

offline
Registered: Nov 2003
Local time: 04:00 PM
Location:
Posts: 37

as they say.. post #13  quote:

for every complex problem there is a simple answer -- that's wrong.

corrupt politicians can manipulate any tax system. ha ha, yer funny too. i take it that your arg. that:

forbes hasn't come out for it
forbes would come out for it if it helped the rich
therefore, it don't help the rich

... is some kind of joke. either that or the mind is filled with flatus


Old Post 12-23-2003 08:38 PM
Click here to Send Bush Is A Liar a Private Message Find more posts by Bush Is A Liar Add Bush Is A Liar to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore Bush Is A Liar REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

cjo
Qualified Rookie

offline
Registered: Nov 2003
Local time: 08:00 AM
Location:
Posts: 17

post #14  quote:

lolololol bushit ...... ur sew pretty in pink hahahhahahah rotflmao

Old Post 12-23-2003 10:33 PM
Click here to Send cjo a Private Message Find more posts by cjo Add cjo to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore cjo REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

Ray Luca
Crackerjack

offline
Registered: Dec 2003
Local time: 11:00 AM
Location: America
Posts: 168

post #15  quote:

cjo must have a rich spouse and/or a good accountant that knows all the loopholes. Bush signed the law for a healthy tax deduction for people that purchase vehicles over 6 tons(hello gas sucking pig SUV lovers!). I agree with bush is a liar on this.

Old Post 12-24-2003 10:36 PM
Click here to Send Ray Luca a Private Message Find more posts by Ray Luca Add Ray Luca to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore Ray Luca REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

Ken NJ
INReview Maven

offline
Registered: Dec 2003
Local time: 11:00 AM
Location: NJ
Posts: 4930

Harder They Come Soundtrack post #16  quote:

<<< Bush signed the law for a healthy tax deduction for people that purchase vehicles over 6 tons(hello gas sucking pig SUV lovers!). >>>

The word "healthy" is an understatement, lots of shananigans besides the $100,000. tax deduction for the heavy weights of the fat cats. Gets better and can trade in for a slimer and luxurious model tax free. Another hole in that loop.

<<< You've got my vote. Except, I would make a provision that those under the poverty level would be exempt from paying sales taxes on basic commodities. If they want to buy Nike shoes, though, or t-bone steaks, they can pay the same tax as I pay. >>>

Marlene, this is the first crack in disassembling another tax infrastructure the same as creating loopholes in the progressive system. Once there is an exception or exemption, others will follow by lobbyists and legislation....so eventually the system is worst then originally intended. A clear example here.

Remember this, it's easier to put a NEW law or exception to the books than to take the law away. Once you signed up for NRT or flat tax or whatever name you called it, you're in it for life and will regret it. Sorta like trading in one problem for another WORST one. At least I KNOW this problem now, but I know the next one is no better and the monster lurking in the closet some believing will help them is nothing but a shocker that can't put back in there once released.

<<< i would appreciate an analysis of how a national sales or value-added tax would be worse than the current system. >>>

Wonder why those politicians who endorse it won't tell you the truth? They yanking you!

I can, but will scare the be-jesus out of you. Not sure the average American can handle it. I might not like the one bird in the hand now, but the three promised ones in the bush ain't no better.
quote:
Artist: Johnny Nash Lyrics
Song: I Can See Clearly Now Lyrics

I can see clearly now, the rain is gone,
I can see all obstacles in my way
Gone are the dark clouds that had me blind
It’s gonna be a bright (bright), bright (bright)
Sun-Shiny day.

I think I can make it now, the pain is gone
All of the bad feelings have disappeared
Here is the rainbow I’ve been prayin?for
It’s gonna be a bright (bright), bright (bright)
Sun-Shiny day.


Old Post 02-07-2004 11:53 AM
Click here to Send Ken NJ a Private Message Find more posts by Ken NJ Add Ken NJ to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore Ken NJ REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote
Time: 04:00 PM Post New Thread   
  Print Version | Email Page | Bookmark | Subscribe to Thread
INReview INReview > The Scuttlebutt Lounge > Politics & Government > Taxes > Putting Taxes In Perspective
Search this Thread:
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
Forum Policies Explained
 
Rate This Thread:

< >

Copyright ?2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
Page generated in 0.05810905 seconds (86.46% PHP - 13.54% MySQL) with 40 queries.

ADS

© 2018, INReview.com.   Popular Forums  All Forums   Web Hosting by Psyphire.
INReview.com: Back to Home