One thing I never hear anyone talk about is the 100 year war. In the first movie Smith makes reference to the matrix being built to represent the peak of our civilization. If this war is going on for 100 years does that mean this matrix started in 1899 representation? If not, that would imply the matrix has been rebooted at least once during this last 100 years. I think the "reload" idea of the matrix would than be open to interpretation. The architect says he "prefers" to count the different matrix' by the emergence of one integral anomoly to the next. He also mentions that the first matrix he designed was a total failure. Did that Matrix have an anomaly in the code or was it just a breakdown due to the humans? If it was a breakdown than maybe there was no The One in that version. I believe the Architect is counting Matrix' from when the idea of choice was implemented. I also believe that when counting the 6 versions the Architect talks about he only means when The One's code is inserted back into the Matrix. I think the whole Matrix world can be rebooted at any time but when the code is reinserted the rules of it change due to an increase in knowledge from The One. Neo is the sum remainder of an unbalanced equation, and the Architect also states that the anomaly is sytemic, meaning that the anomaly is in every piece of code in the entire Matrix (he says this but I can't remember the exact quote). Saying Neo is the sum remainder of this unbalanced equation means he is a reaminder of the anomaly of all the code. In other words, Neo is byproduct of the flaws in everything in the matrix. That is why he can exploit everything in the Matrix. I gues I could go a little deeper but let's get some discussion on these things!
About when the war started within the matrix... Good question. It very well could have been 1899, or something like that... It may need to be noted again that time within the matrix, and outside in Zion, seem to be synchronized. So if Zion has existed for about 100 years before the emergence of the One, then it stands to reason that the matrix reboots to around 1899. If that's the case though, then how could Zionites hack into the matrix? Don't they need a phone line to get out?
About the number of versions of the matrix: The architect said that there were TWO FAILED DESIGNS of the matrix, before the intuitive program stumbled upon a workable solution. There was the perfect version that humans rejected, and then there was another version that was based upon human history that also failed. Then the intuitive program stumbled upon a solution, and that solution was then incorporated into the THIRD REDESIGN of the matrix. The SOLUTION is inherently flawed, and THAT'S what causes the emergence of the One. I've got a pretty decent transcript of the Architect scene, so I'll go over it a few times and see if I can come up with anything else to add tomorrow...
I'm about to head home to check out the Animatrix DVD I got earlier today just before I had to head into work (where I am now...)
Yeah... if the matrix is supposed to repressent the peak of our civilization...
I think the Matrix can be rebooted without anyone knowing it... That's the only way this whole thing can make sense. Then, it wouldn't have had to been created as if it were 1899, it could be 1999, fail, and be rebooted back to 1999. Like a save point. Humans and programs in the matrix are not aware of a reboot.
Please pardon my pseudo-intellectuaphilisophicalismysiticality.
keep in mind that nobody really knows what year it is, so to assume that you can correctly count backwards from 1999 is unreliable. morpheus says its "closer to 2199". the war may very well have started long after 1999, with the accepted peak of human civilization being somewhere around that year (at least to the machines).
obviously, the war didn't start in 1899, because the industrial revolution would have been a necessary component in the equation of a war with machines. one thing we know for certain is that people existing in matrix "time" cannot truly assume that their calendar is a reliable basis for timekeeping, regardless of when the war actually started.
but here's an interesting notion: if it only took 72 hours for zion to fall the last time, we can assume that the very necessity of making the statement implies that the amount of time it takes to destroy zion is getting shorter, possibly at a geometric rate. even the architect says, "we have become exceedingly efficient at it." this seems to show that the machines have shortened the length of time to destroy zion with each successive reboot.
the idea of a restore point is sensible, because it would facilitate the humans' failure to determine the present year. the machines would only need current year information on a strictly database oriented level, because time has no ultimate meaning to a machine. this is a good explanation as to why the architect "perfers" to enumerate reboots via the anomoly. it is as logical a method to a machine as could be expected.
so, for all intents and purposes, the war could have started at any point in "real time". everything we thought we knew about our past is subject to scrutiny because if we don't know what parts of our history's timeline are true, we can't really say with any degree of certainty exactly when anything happened.
to put it more simply, the percieved peak of our civilization (as depicted for us in the matrix by the machines, what appears to be present day civilization) could have existed (in real time) 100 years ago or 1000 years ago. we may never know if we destroy the matrix without first accessing its database in the mainframe.
maybe the matrix doesn't keep time the same way the "real world" does... if the system is rebooted and the same crops of humans are put back into the matrix...they all don't start out as babies...so there has to be some sort of program to explain how they got to where they are. a day in the matrix could pass as a year in the real world...it's all a matter of perception.
Perhaps the machines refuse to let the Matrix age. When it reboots, the Matrix is set to 1999, then after that no further progresses in science are allowed to happen.
i think ti's one of those things that won't be explained by the movie. how can you explain it? well i guess ill try anyway the matrix originated at the peak of our civilization, as smith points out in m1, so that our history beforehand was reloaded. They had to have had some adults to begin with. you'd have to assume if time is the same in the matrix and zion, that "early 21st century", when the Matrix begins (as Morpheus says, that's when the war happened), that it's "early 22nd century" in the Matrix. If the Matrix (or this current version) had been around for 100 years before Neo was freed, then it should have been the year 2100-something in Neo's world...so i think it's safe to assume that somehow, the machines have managed to slow down time in the Matrix so that our brains think 1 year has gone by when, say, only a day has gone by. If it's all loaded from a computer system, then this should easily be done given the fact that the machines are capable of plugging us in like batteries
The agents implant a bug into Neo and he just "wakes up" in his bed suddenly in the middle of the night, so they can change the matrix, but it looks like that means they can also change time in a way...neo thought it was just a dream (a dream within a dream!)
Correct me if I'm wrong.... Morpheus : "You beleive it to be the year 1999, when in actuallity it is closer to the year 2399". Isnt this what Morpheus says to Neo when he is first telling him about the matrix in the construct program? I dont know if this makes any difference to this thread, but that is what I remember him saying about what year it is.
Wish I could have relpied to some of those eariler posts. You almost got it Gorgaxx. Morpheus says you believe it is the year 1999, when in fact it is closer to 2199. In my original post what I was trying to say is that if the Matrix is in 1999 (which it clearly is by Morpheus' statement to Neo) and they have been fighting this war for 100 years, if time was synchronized with "real" time than the Matrix would have been in 1899 100 years ago.
If you read 'GOLIATH', which is a short story in the comics section of the main Matrix website, it gets into some of these time issues.
(spoiler ahead if you aint read it)
It deals with a dude that is in 1975 and actually gets to re-live some of his life over again. It turns out the Matrix A.I. are training him to pilot a space ship to take out some Aliens attacking the earth. From the looks of it, what they do is grow this guy from baby to adult super fast, (he is a lot bigger than the average human) and somehow train him to fly the ship by decieving him into thinking he is part of a secret government program that flys downed ufo's.
At any rate he is living this long life from 1975 to the 80's and beyond to train him but in the real world, (where the earth is being attacked by the alien menace), only a short time has passed.
It could be that he is in his own private construct of the Matrix or something, just for training purposes, but the story does show that time is something that within the Matrix is relative.
I was going to copy and paste the story here, but it's too long and I don't want to make anyone mad with a super long post. Anyhow, like I said it's at the comic section of the Matrix website and the name of it is 'Goliath'.
Yeah, I read that too! It seems to me that the Matrix programmers can seemingly rewrite "sections" of the code without rebooting the whole thing but their abilities to rewrite the brain are limited. That guy was first passing it off as dejavu, until he lived through the same time period like 3 or 4 times. And at the end of that story he had 1 hour to live, and they let hime live another lifetime, a happy one, in 1 hour!
06-04-2003 02:41 AM
the matrix originated at the peak of our civilization, as smith points out in m1, so that our history beforehand was reloaded. They had to have had some adults to begin with. you'd have to assume if time is the same in the matrix and zion, that "early 21st century", when the Matrix begins (as Morpheus says, that's when the war happened), that it's "early 22nd century" in the Matrix. If the Matrix (or this current version) had been around for 100 years before Neo was freed, then it should have been the year 2100-something in Neo's world...so i think it's safe to assume that somehow, the machines have managed to slow down time in the Matrix so that our brains think 1 year has gone by when, say, only a day has gone by. If it's all loaded from a computer system, then this should easily be done given the fact that the machines are capable of plugging us in like batteries 
