In another blow to FREE speech. Baroness Jenny Tongue was forced to "stand down" from her position in Liberal Democratic party just for requesting an " independent inquiry immediatly to clear names" involved in ORGAN HARVESTING allegations.
There are reports (evidence) organ harvesting was done from dead palestinians. So what was contraversial for a parlliamentary Baroness to ask for an inquiry to stop this allegation from growing?
Well it should be the role of the opposition to ask questions and ask for inquiries etc etc. Anyway what Malcolm wrote is not the whole tale what Tonge asked for was an inquiry into Israeli defence forces harvesting organs from the dead it was the second time she had made these claims in as many days despite having no hard evidence, ( she was using You Tube as evidence go figure).
It was after she made this second claim that member of her own party complained to the leader Nick Clegg and when he had heard what she had said she was asked to stand down ( I can find his statement on it if you want)
Still she hasn't actually lost anything Malcolm she isn't an MP she is a Lord which is the upper part of our house of commons and you cant be removed from being a lord it's a life peerage all that she lost was the position of Health Spokeswoman same as how she lost the position of children's spokeswoman a few years back when she said she could became a suicide bomber
lodgebo01 said this in post #2 : Well it should be the role of the opposition to ask questions and ask for inquiries etc etc. Anyway what Malcolm wrote is not the whole tale what Tonge asked for was an inquiry into Israeli defence forces harvesting organs from the dead it was the second time she had made these claims in as many days despite having no hard evidence, ( she was using You Tube as evidence go figure).
It was after she made this second claim that member of her own party complained to the leader Nick Clegg and when he had heard what she had said she was asked to stand down ( I can find his statement on it if you want)
Still she hasn't actually lost anything Malcolm she isn't an MP she is a Lord which is the upper part of our house of commons and you cant be removed from being a lord it's a life peerage all that she lost was the position of Health Spokeswoman same as how she lost the position of children's spokeswoman a few years back when she said she could became a suicide bomber
if you agree say say should have ask for investigation into Haiti, why was she forced out of her position for doing her job?
There's no need for an investigation into the claims she made because they have been proved to be false. Also it's not in the remit of her job at all, the Liberal democrats are the 3rd force in UK politics and she was the spokeswomen on health issues so where does her lies about Haiti come into the job description? she's not even an elected member of Parliament she is a Lord.
This thing that keeps coming out about her being fired for doing her job I don't understand that. She lost her job because she made wholly inappropriate comments that were not proven to be true and it wasn't the first time she had made comments along these lines any politician would have been dragged over hot coals for doing that.
FYI just a minor point Malcolm that maybe you don't know but in the UK MP's and Lords cannot be fired they have to stand down, die or in the case of MP's only they have to lose an election. So she never lost her peerage she is still Lord whatever of wherever
lodgebo01 said this in post #4 : There's no need for an investigation into the claims she made because they have been proved to be false. Also it's not in the remit of her job at all, the Liberal democrats are the 3rd force in UK politics and she was the spokeswomen on health issues so where does her lies about Haiti come into the job description? she's not even an elected member of Parliament she is a Lord.
This thing that keeps coming out about her being fired for doing her job I don't understand that. She lost her job because she made wholly inappropriate comments that were not proven to be true and it wasn't the first time she had made comments along these lines any politician would have been dragged over hot coals for doing that.
FYI just a minor point Malcolm that maybe you don't know but in the UK MP's and Lords cannot be fired they have to stand down, die or in the case of MP's only they have to lose an election. So she never lost her peerage she is still Lord whatever of wherever
In Britain a politician asking for an inquiry into an allegation is an " inappropriate comment"?
and if Britain allows FREEDOM OF SPEECH it doesn't matter what she is
It depends what your asking for, for example if she said she wants an inquiry into the high level of inner city crimes committed by black youths that's inappropriate because it's inaccurate and targeting one section of community same as if she said she wanted an inquiry as to the high costs of testing gay men for HIV again inaccurate and targeting people. That's exactly what happened it was inaccurate and was targeting people who were out there doing an excellent job by all accounts better than anybody else that was out there. If your going to be in the public eye and make comments then that's fine but you have to base them in accuracy otherwise you an offend people, inflame opponents of those people you are accusing and damage your own reputation ( though when you said you could be a suicide bomber I think your reputation is pretty much f**ked anyway)
Secondly there is another issue about what she asked for and that is that what she wants is none of our business. She wants an investigation into claims Israel harvested organs from victims of the Haiti Earthquake while they were working in Haiti. Now I ask you where does the UK government come into it? it doesn't but it is a good excuse for Tonge to get over her anti Israel stance again. That's one of the big problems here.
As for free speech well I think we have been through this before but free speech comes at a cost of responsible speech. For example I can say our queen is a waste of money our PM is useless tit but if I threatened to kill them or something that's different that's taking free speech to far.
the thing is if you in a political circle you have to be uber careful of what you say.
Going back to the first thing I said Malcolm you would be fine if people in the UK started calling blacks ni**ers or told them to get back where they came from and other horrible things you would be fine with that because because after all they are executing free speech. Personally I am happy to live in a place where my freespeech is protected but not at the expense of other to feel humiliated, slandered or scared.
What if she wanted an inquiry into Scotlands involvement in ORGAN HARVESTING
Waste of time there have been no allegations of UK because this is a UK operation harvesting organs
or Scotland is most violent country" UN report
You mena the one that was discredited?
or allegations of Scotland's nuclear program
You have proved time and time your are not intelligent enough to understand this issue and I am not going to waste my time maybe when your are older and smarter we can go back to it.
or claims of Scotlands involment in African SLAVE TRADE or ...etc
Or our involvement in stopping the slave trade as well maybe we should bring that up or even the involvement of Africa leaders in the slave trade would be inquiry wise eh?
are inquries into claims of Scotland inappropriate?
To answer your question yes and no. She can ask for an inquiry into an issue involving Scotland because she is a Lord of the UK just like an MP can ask for an inquiry BUT she cant say anything that is a lie or unjustly inflammatory which is what she did with the Israeli harvesting issue it was a lie she knew that and her anti Israel stance that is well known came before anything else
How can someone given the title of "Lord" not be able to ask for an inquiry to keep allegations against a country from growing? Britain needs use a word other than "Lord" if they simple inquires cannot be asked.
This is not a simple inquiry Malcolm it never was if the whole of the Liberal party, the UK press and even Tonge herself can now see that why cant you?, Also do you know that inquirys cost ££££ lots of them and considering that it's not our issue, is based on lies and mis information why should we waste our money to help a racist little bigot like Tonge push her agenda?
Don't know what happend but I have somehow managed to put my posy in with your malcolm sorry about that. You should be able to understand let me know if you can tho?
(The White Tigers Edit: I believe I've move you post here Lodge but correct me if I am wrong. Malcolm's bit quoted)
quote:
malcolm xx said this in post #7 :
[B]What if she wanted an inquiry into Scotlands involvement in ORGAN HARVESTING
Waste of time there have been no allegations of UK because this is a UK operation harvesting organs
quote:
or Scotland is most violent country" UN report
You mean the one that was discredited?
quote:
or allegations of Scotland's nuclear program
You have proved time and time your are not intelligent enough to understand this issue and I am not going to waste my time maybe when your are older and smarter we can go back to it.
quote:
or claims of Scotlands involment in African SLAVE TRADE or ...etc
Or our involvement in stopping the slave trade as well maybe we should bring that up or even the involvement of Africa leaders in the slave trade would be inquiry wise eh?
quote:
are inquries into claims of Scotland inappropriate?
To answer your question yes and no. She can ask for an inquiry into an issue involving Scotland because she is a Lord of the UK just like an MP can ask for an inquiry BUT she cant say anything that is a lie or unjustly inflammatory which is what she did with the Israeli harvesting issue it was a lie she knew that and her anti Israel stance that is well known came before anything else
quote:
How can someone given the title of "Lord" not be able to ask for an inquiry to keep allegations against a country from growing? Britain needs use a word other than "Lord" if they simple inquires cannot be asked.
This is not a simple inquiry Malcolm it never was if the whole of the Liberal party, the UK press and even Tonge herself can now see that why cant you?, Also do you know that inquirys cost ££££ lots of them and considering that it's not our issue, is based on lies and mis information why should we waste our money to help a racist little bigot like Tonge push her agenda?
lodgbo~ are u from Isreal ? jews in family? have any business intrest in Isreal? do u work for them? believe in Zionism?What is your connection? We are perplex to how u can go along with another country agenda attacking Britain and say not 1 word in defense of your country? we understand Scotlands angry with Britain over their independence and other issues but acting like a TRAITOR is not the way to go. Follow White Tiger and just shut up!
Tonge "organ harvesting" statement has been distorted here is what she actually said( READ FOR SELF!):
" To prevent allegations such as these which have been posted on You Tube from gping any further, the IDF and the Isreali Medical Association should establish an independent inquiry immediately to clear the names of the team in Haiti."
This is statement why she was fired and Lodgbo calls inappropriate and compares to an inquiry of " black nig*ers and the testing of men who are homos.
and the more one reads her statement it really seems in defense of Isreal.
I haven't stopped debating because I've nothing to say or have grown tired of arguing with you Malcolm. I've stopped because I'm a lazy, lazy man with far too little free time on his hands nowadays to spend arguing with someone who never accepts any merits of any argument that doesn't agree with him.
On a side note, as a Moderator, I have to inform you that this forum is not here just for your benefit and is not simply a viewing ground for your own opinions. Even if the majority of posts on here now are spam you cant expect to face no opposition for you opinions and your stories, especially if those stories and opinions are either debatable or come from a questionable source.
You'll have to learn to live with that.
I know we dont see eye to eye on most things and we probably dont like each other but I take my duties as a Moderator somewhat seriously when I visit this site so I can tell you that I will not stop you from expressing your views and opinion or presenting your stories and I'll even encourage you to do so, so long as you do not break the Forum Rules, but you really have to learn that other peoples opinions are valid.
Telling someone to shut up and go away just because their arguing against you is not in the spirit that this forum is suppose to have and is just not cricket, as the saying goes.
"there's only one way to win a war: shout, shout, and shout again!" - The Duke of Wellington ((Blackadder - Stephen Fry))
Ok Malcolm to Answer your questions / ramblings. I am not from Israel, have no Jews in my family in fact all of my family are atheists so religion plays little to no part in our lives.
Also Scotland is not "angry" with britain because to do that we would have to be angry at ourselves your lack of basic knowledge on the country you are bashing is astounding even by your very low standards. I fail to see what independence has to do with Tonge running her racist mouth but that's just me we know in your world you and only you can link it all together.
Once again Malcolm you mis understand what I said.
Firstly I never ever denied that's what she said what I am saying is that 1 she knew all these stories were erronous but she still jumped on the bandwagon that was wrong and 2 she is a UK lord she has no place, power or right to tell Israel what to investigate. Do you understand that now are do you want me to use one syllabel words and stick figures to help you get it?
My comments about ni**ers and homosexuals was in a reference to free speech, what I am saying is that if you want pure free speech Malcolm that's fine and dandy but then you cant get upset about guys like kramer and all these other people you have complained about in the past because by your argument they are entitled to that freedom of speech right?
PS I love it when you tell folk to shut up just proves your losing the argument and you know it and shut up is the only argument you have left
White Tiger said this in post #10 : I haven't stopped debating because I've nothing to say or have grown tired of arguing with you Malcolm. I've stopped because I'm a lazy, lazy man with far too little free time on his hands nowadays to spend arguing with someone who never accepts any merits of any argument that doesn't agree with him.
On a side note, as a Moderator, I have to inform you that this forum is not here just for your benefit and is not simply a viewing ground for your own opinions. Even if the majority of posts on here now are spam you cant expect to face no opposition for you opinions and your stories, especially if those stories and opinions are either debatable or come from a questionable source.
You'll have to learn to live with that.
I know we dont see eye to eye on most things and we probably dont like each other but I take my duties as a Moderator somewhat seriously when I visit this site so I can tell you that I will not stop you from expressing your views and opinion or presenting your stories and I'll even encourage you to do so, so long as you do not break the Forum Rules, but you really have to learn that other peoples opinions are valid.
Telling someone to shut up and go away just because their arguing against you is not in the spirit that this forum is suppose to have and is just not cricket, as the saying goes.
[QUOTE]White Tiger said this in post #10 : I haven't stopped debating because I've nothing to say or have grown tired of arguing with you Malcolm. I've stopped because I'm a lazy, lazy man with far too little free time on his hands nowadays to spend arguing with someone who never accepts any merits of any argument that doesn't agree with him.
On a side note, as a Moderator, I have to inform you that this forum is not here just for your benefit and is not simply a viewing ground for your own opinions. Even if the majority of posts on here now are spam you cant expect to face no opposition for you opinions and your stories, especially if those stories and opinions are either debatable or come from a questionable source.
You'll have to learn to live with that.
I know we dont see eye to eye on most things and we probably dont like each other but I take my duties as a Moderator somewhat seriously when I visit this site so I can tell you that I will not stop you from expressing your views and opinion or presenting your stories and I'll even encourage you to do so, so long as you do not break the Forum Rules, but you really have to learn that other peoples opinions are valid.
Telling someone to shut up and go away just because their arguing against you is not in the spirit that this forum is suppose to have and is just not cricket, as the saying goes. [/QUOTE
Evidently u are not lazy to defend Lodgbo. Now that u have jjoin discussion what is your opinion of Tonges statement?
What is name of party (British gov has allowed) whos only purpose is to "influence" UK politicians opinnons?
Isreal has admitted to Organn HARVESTING is that not true?
Don't quite know what you are talking about this party that influences our politicians, UK politics are normally influenced by party policies and history and of course voters opinions ) if course I could have a romanticised view of it all). You need to be more specific really because your not making much sense there.
Israel has admitted organ harvesting in the 50's and 60's and also admitted that it was outlawed in the 90's BUT there have been no claims of this happening since the 70's I believe and even this incident ha proved to be a lot of BS there was no evidence, other teams found nothing and that Haitian authorities who honestly had better things to do have found nothing either, all this is is Ms Tonge has an agenda regarding Israel and saw this as an opportunity.
Don't think Israel or many teams are still in Haiti it's not a rescue mission it's recovery and low level treatment that doesn't need lots of teams thought I think they will be mobolised to Chile soon because like them or not they did a hell of a job better than even the US in the UK in the recovery efforts.
lodgebo01 said this in post #14 : Don't quite know what you are talking about this party that influences our politicians, UK politics are normally influenced by party policies and history and of course voters opinions ) if course I could have a romanticised view of it all). You need to be more specific really because your not making much sense there.
Israel has admitted organ harvesting in the 50's and 60's and also admitted that it was outlawed in the 90's BUT there have been no claims of this happening since the 70's I believe and even this incident ha proved to be a lot of BS there was no evidence, other teams found nothing and that Haitian authorities who honestly had better things to do have found nothing either, all this is is Ms Tonge has an agenda regarding Israel and saw this as an opportunity.
Don't think Israel or many teams are still in Haiti it's not a rescue mission it's recovery and low level treatment that doesn't need lots of teams thought I think they will be mobolised to Chile soon because like them or not they did a hell of a job better than even the US in the UK in the recovery efforts.
their has been many claims of ORGAN Harvesting (including Scotland? and did not Isreal admit to ORGAN HARVESTING/
02-25-2010 10:26 PM
