Only Countries in Middle East having nuclear program are allies of America. Israel, India and Pakistan. No one seems concern about that despite the fact Israel shared nuclear secrets with South Africa in 70s and 80s. Pakiston shared nuclear secrets with unknown amount of countries ; and India and Pakiston are a disagreement away from nuclear war.
2nd, while Bush ad is threatning Irans nuclear objectives, it will not ask Israel to disarm program. How can there be one-sided nuclear disarmament with levels of tension in Middle East? Its irrational to ask Arab country to ignore nuclear capabilities when
Israel has a nuclear weapons program finance by US.
Nuclear disarmament must be total or the reality is that it will not happen. The only options is living with nuclear Iran or another war.
"The Pentagon has drawn up plans for massive airstrikes against 1200 targets in Iran, designed to annihilate the Iranians' military capability in 3 days ..." -[ The Times of London, September 2 2007]
Whenever there is a war innocents do get hurt it's just a sad fact and in some cases the casualties are unavoidable.
India, Israel and Pakistan do indeed have nukes but unlike Iran they have not threatend to wipe out neighbouring countries and they don't really have a man with questionable views on Israel with his finger on the button.
The thing is though this is not another Iraq issue, in this case it's not just America that have issues with Iran there is the UK, Russia, France, Germany, Italy, China the EU as a collective body, the UN has worries over what Iran are up to as do the IAEA and Saudi Arabia and Jordan have quitely vented thier anger mainly because they are also in range if Iran decide to up the ante. All these groups stating the same thing suggest Iran may be in the wrong especially when Russia and China start to apply the pressure.
I know America has suggested military engagement but I can't see it being anytime soon mainly because they will have to go it alone as the other countries have ruled out military action secondly they don't have the troops, money or ammo to wage 3 wars and thirdly because Iran unlike Iraq has a good army and will be able to match the US in terms of air and sea combat which is a problem because that is how the US plan to win wars. I think more than likely you will see sanctions I know the UK has put more sanctions on Iraq today and the other will no doubt follow suit.
Personally I doubt anything big is coming any time soon miltary plams are drawn up a lot yet rarely get used.
Lodge is half-right. While it is a world issue, both China and Russia are in support of Iran. Most likely due to the fact that they are the two main suppliers to Iran's military and funds. Way to go, Asia.
A war with Iran would not be a white/black issue (I don't mean race, I mean ethical/unethical). It's a very gray area. Yes, we are obligated to help Israel because of certain treaties, and yes Iran has said their hope is to destroy Israel with nuclear weapons. However, a pre-emptive war with Iran would most likely be characterized as jumping the gun.
"Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord."
"Judge not, let you be judged yourself."
I live my life highly accordingly to these two quotes, and pray I'm never wronged to the point of forgetting them.
WillJ said this in post #4 : Lodge is half-right. While it is a world issue, both China and Russia are in support of Iran. Most likely due to the fact that they are the two main suppliers to Iran's military and funds. Way to go, Asia.
A war with Iran would not be a white/black issue (I don't mean race, I mean ethical/unethical). It's a very gray area. Yes, we are obligated to help Israel because of certain treaties, and yes Iran has said their hope is to destroy Israel with nuclear weapons. However, a pre-emptive war with Iran would most likely be characterized as jumping the gun.
Remember your statement is just an opinon like everyone else , we have eyes and a brain to analyzle the situation for ourselves.
Does Israel have nuclear weapons?
Does Isreal allow inspections by IAEA?
If US helps Isreal, why is it wrong for Russia ( or any contry) to help Iran?
Would you allow your children ( or child from your family) join the military and risk her life for another country?
The thing is Malcolm Israel has never fully admitted to having nukes at least I think thats the case, but I have never seen the leader of Israel saying they want Iran destroyed. Iran has proved time and time again it will do what it can to disrupt harmony in the area if it is not kidnapping sailors and claiming Iraq waters as Iranian it is firing rockets in unscehduled war games or the government having a hand in smuggling weapons over the border to help terrorists or something less covert like the leader just standing on a podium saying Israel must be wiped out, the thing is I thought somebody like yourself would understand because Iran wants Jews gone not Israel just like people in parts of America wanted the blacks gone.
The thing you asked about Russia is diffrent froim the US case with Israel because I don't think Russia is actually arming them I think Russia is reluctent to have sanctions imposed on them. Mind you Russia is also a country we should be worried about they are like an impotent old man that just found Viagra and now they want to **** something right up.
What you said about risking your kids life for another country well if I had a kid and that was his / her job then yes because more often than not you have to do the right thing. What would have happend if the UK had ignored when Hitler invaded Poland? or if NATO ignored the ethnic cleansing in the former Yugoslavia, or if the US, UK and French ignored the invasion of Kuwait? look what happend when we ingored Darfur. Now if my son was involved in a fight like that I would be worried but I would know he is doing the right thing.
I know you have to the right thing at times hell when the war in Kuwait was going on I was behind enemy lines in Iraq doing a dangerous job but it was the right thing to do because we were trying to atop the s**t from hitting the fan.
Remember your statement is just an opinon like everyone else , we have eyes and a brain to analyzle the situation for ourselves.
Does Israel have nuclear weapons?
Does Isreal allow inspections by IAEA?
If US helps Isreal, why is it wrong for Russia ( or any contry) to help Iran?
Would you allow your children ( or child from your family) join the military and risk her life for another country?
While there's no documented proof of Israeli nuclear weapons, it's pretty obvious they have them. And the IAEA has been ignored.
Here's my problem with Russia and China with Iran. Thousands of weapons from Iran have been found in possession of Iraqi soldiers, being used against U.S. soldiers. Russia supplies Iran. Transitively, Russia is supplying weapons to Iraqi fighters that are killing U.S. Soldiers.
Do I like Israel? Not really. Do I put them on the same level as a country that actively calls for another country's decimation? No.
"Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord."
"Judge not, let you be judged yourself."
I live my life highly accordingly to these two quotes, and pray I'm never wronged to the point of forgetting them.
The U.S. pretty much declared war on the Iranian people in 1954 when the CIA invested 1 million dollars in overthrowing the democratic government in Iran in order to steal the Iranian oil fields. The “revolution” in the 1980’s (and tossing the Americans out) was merely a belated reaction to such American treachery.
What we see today in Iran is the natural development of the long-lasting problems the U.S. has itself created in Iran and in the whole region.
Aretha's doctor said this in post #8 : The U.S. pretty much declared war on the Iranian people in 1954 when the CIA invested 1 million dollars in overthrowing the democratic government in Iran in order to steal the Iranian oil fields. The “revolution” in the 1980’s (and tossing the Americans out) was merely a belated reaction to such American treachery.
What we see today in Iran is the natural development of the long-lasting problems the U.S. has itself created in Iran and in the whole region.
American citizens will not read history and chosse to stay ignorant. This is why past invasions of Somalia and Iraq happen.
And invasion on Iran is Imminent, despite all the evidence that says it isn't necessary.
Theres a diffrence betweenm a peacekeepiong force and an invasion to some viable unbiased research on US troops in Somalia.
Also I doubt very much an invaison on Iraq is imminent the recent reports abput Irans nuclear capabilities has softend the stance and gave people more time, the US does not have the financies or troop numbers to fight a war on 3 fronts and they can forget about troop support from anyone because nobody else (excpet Israel) thinks a war is the way forward.
lodgebo01 said this in post #10 : Theres a diffrence betweenm a peacekeepiong force and an invasion to some viable unbiased research on US troops in Somalia.
Also I doubt very much an invaison on Iraq is imminent the recent reports abput Irans nuclear capabilities has softend the stance and gave people more time, the US does not have the financies or troop numbers to fight a war on 3 fronts and they can forget about troop support from anyone because nobody else (excpet Israel) thinks a war is the way forward.
it's cowardly ponces such as lodgeball from edinborough (in a kilt no less) that hinders the fight of good against islam
This you back again Joe just recovered from the election hammering have you?
How do you know I am wearing a kilt have you got secret cameras in my house? I saw that movie sliver, god you can't even spell the place you are slagging. the borough is spelt Burgh
Anyway naebrain ( thats Edinborugh talk apprently) how exactly are you blaming ME for the stance thet international community has taken? I am just telling you what has happend now I know you rednecks don't watch much except fox news and most of you struggle with the big words in the papers but I can assure you that the intel carried out by the US states that Iran is not an imminent threat and has no nuclear weapons so if you want to have a got at somebody how about your own government that carried out the reserach.
And as for fighting Islamic terror hmm I did 3 tours in Afghanistan and was carriying out ops against Islamic terror groups in N. Afriuca before the words 9/11 had been mutterd now what have you done to fight terror? BTW logfing on to this site doesn't count.
lodgebo01 said this in post #12 : This you back again Joe just recovered from the election hammering have you?
How do you know I am wearing a kilt have you got secret cameras in my house? I saw that movie sliver, god you can't even spell the place you are slagging. the borough is spelt Burgh
Anyway naebrain ( thats Edinborugh talk apprently) how exactly are you blaming ME for the stance thet international community has taken? I am just telling you what has happend now I know you rednecks don't watch much except fox news and most of you struggle with the big words in the papers but I can assure you that the intel carried out by the US states that Iran is not an imminent threat and has no nuclear weapons so if you want to have a got at somebody how about your own government that carried out the reserach.
And as for fighting Islamic terror hmm I did 3 tours in Afghanistan and was carriying out ops against Islamic terror groups in N. Afriuca before the words 9/11 had been mutterd now what have you done to fight terror? BTW logfing on to this site doesn't count.
1) Invading sovereign countries is " not the stance of international community. The governments of Isreal , US, EU and Australia do not represent the international community.
This propaganda being used to brainwash has to be exposed (and the agents using it).
2) Using (conservative) Fox News to prove Iran Invasion won't happen, is another " shameful" tactic being used to try and brainwash.
3) You accuse someone of slagging for " not spelling ..." , then you misspelled Africa? Can the citizens of Africa that you did 3 tours against say the same for you?
1) Invading sovereign countries is " not the stance of international community. The governments of Isreal , US, EU and Australia do not represent the international community.
For the first time ever Malcolm you and me are in agreement. What I don't understand is why is that you and me agree on the same thing yet we are disagreeing?
2) Using (conservative) Fox News to prove Iran Invasion won't happen, is another " shameful" tactic being used to try and brainwash.
Agreed Fox is poor and so right wing I am sure thier headquarters lean to 90 degree angle, people should not listen to Fox for facts.
3) You accuse someone of slagging for " not spelling ..." , then you misspelled Africa?
Yeah my bad I may have undiagnosed dyslexia
Can the citizens of Africa that you did 3 tours against say the same for you?
It was 3 tours of Afghanistan as for the people of Africa I don't know most of the op's I did were black op's though I must say when I have met the people of Africa I liked them and they seemed to like me.
10-14-2006 01:28 AM
