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INReview INReview > Hot Topics > Post-9/11 Era > Afghanistan > Pat Tillman investigation
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Whidden
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Pat Tillman investigation post #1  quote:



quote:
Criminal negligence at issue in Army's probe into Tillman's death
BY DREW BROWN
Knight Ridder Newspapers

WASHINGTON - The Army's criminal investigation into former NFL star Pat Tillman's death, announced on Saturday, will focus on whether his death may have been the result of criminal negligence and whether his superiors tried to cover up the facts.
Tillman, 27, was serving with the Army's 2nd Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment when he was shot and killed during a patrol in southeastern Afghanistan in April 2004. The military initially reported that enemy fighters had killed Tillman during an ambush. An investigation later revealed that he was accidentally killed by fellow Rangers.
The issues that Army investigators will probe will likely include:
_Why did Tillman's company commander, who wasn't on the scene, order his 34-man platoon to split in half just before the Rangers were ambushed, a decision that led directly to the friendly fire incident? Basic military doctrine says that commanders shouldn't split their forces when they're in hostile territory and may be facing a superior enemy force.
_Did other Rangers know what they were firing at before they shot Tillman and an Afghan militiaman with him? Rangers, who are among Army's most elite troops, are taught never to fire unless they can positively identify their targets.
_Why did Tillman's superiors initially cover up the circumstances of his death? When Tillman was awarded a posthumous Silver Star on April 30, 2004, eight days after his death, the Army's account was full of stirring but phony details about how he'd been killed, even though officers in his chain of command already knew that he'd been killed by American troops.
_When did senior military officials learn that Tillman had been killed by fellow soldiers?
_Why did Army leaders wait for more than a month, until after a nationally televised memorial service three weeks after Tillman's death, to tell his family the truth?
The Army has conducted three investigations into Tillman's death and concluded that there was no apparent wrongdoing. According to the Pentagon, seven soldiers in Tillman's unit have been punished in the case. Three received reprimands for failing to "provide adequate command and control" during the incident, and four received non-judicial punishments for "failure to exercise sound judgment and fire discipline."
Tillman's parents have repeatedly expressed anger that the military lied to them about the circumstances of their son's death. The Pentagon directed the Army to conduct a criminal investigation of the incident after Brig. Gen. Gary Jones, who conducted an investigation last year, asked the Pentagon to review his findings.
Jones reported that the initial inquiry by an officer in the 2nd Ranger Battalion had found that Tillman had been killed as a result of "gross negligence" by his fellow soldiers, who said they'd fired on his position without knowing what they were firing at. Jones also found that top Army officials, including Gen. John P. Abizaid, the head of the U.S. Central Command, had been told several days before Tillman's memorial service that he'd been killed by friendly fire.
Jones, however, found that there was no official intent by the Army to conceal the truth.
Although the scope of the new criminal investigation hasn't been determined, Marine Gen. Peter Pace, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, speaking Sunday on NBC's "Meet the Press," said the investigation would focus on whether there was criminal activity involved in Tillman's death.
"Although there is no evidence that there was criminal activity, the investigators did not specifically look at whether or not there was criminal activity," Pace said. "Criminal activity being when Corporal Tillman was killed by friendly fire, was that fire by the friendly forces fire that should have been going on or was someone potentially firing a weapon when they should not have been?"
Pace said the Tillman family "has gone through enormous anguish, and the fact that that has happened to them is really regrettable."



Old Post 03-06-2006 12:51 AM
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post #2  quote:

Terrible tragedy

I've always hated the saying "friendly fire" - there's really nothing friendly about it



"I'm for it so we can put Nuclear power plants up there, and then beam the power back to earth on a laser beam." ~ Whidden

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Old Post 03-06-2006 05:29 AM
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post #3  quote:

Something tells me this is going to be one of those "investigations" that only get people low on the totem pole. Here's a better question: who was responsible for the false Pat Tillman story placed in the media? Who sought to make Tillman a poster boy? I think if you answer those questions, the other ones will easily be answered.

I hope this doesn't end like the investigation of Abu Ghraib where the real culprits weren't punished.



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The guy who takes a chance, who walks the line between the known and unknown, who is unafraid of failure, will succeed.
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Old Post 03-06-2006 05:44 AM
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post #4  quote:

quote:
Inner City Blues said this in post #3 :
I hope this doesn't end like the investigation of Abu Ghraib where the real culprits weren't punished.
That still ticks me off whenever I think about it.

I think in this case, according to Whidden's article at least, they're looking for real answers, and they don't mind asking real questions...

Though that seems to be just the article's opinion, not necessarily what the army investigators will really probe into. The problem is, any investigation that ends with the military looking flakey is never gonna see the light of day.



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Old Post 03-06-2006 06:09 AM
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post #5  quote:

Well, he was a pro football player and quasi famous, so they may do the investigation right. I think that the site owner, Marc knew him as well.

I remember a thread on it a long long time ago.


Anyhow, something there is bogus, because this is an old story, and it's getting re-investigated.



Old Post 03-06-2006 09:30 AM
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post #6  quote:

Well I think some evidence was destroyed, so I think that may be what they're trying to uncover.


I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody.
- Bill Cosby

The guy who takes a chance, who walks the line between the known and unknown, who is unafraid of failure, will succeed.
- Gordon Parks
Old Post 03-06-2006 05:01 PM
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post #7  quote:

What pisses me off about all of this, is the fact that if it were just a regular soldier, who wasn't semi-famous, would this even be something that was investigated?

It's about time that we make the gov't pay for the mistakes that they make.



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Old Post 03-06-2006 05:25 PM
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post #8  quote:

We could always get rid of the military altogether. That way we wouldn't have any mistakes.


"Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those who say this are witless." ~Ayatollah Khomeini
Old Post 03-06-2006 05:55 PM
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post #9  quote:

It's not the mistakes that worry me it's the amount that seem to be made.

Old Post 03-06-2006 05:58 PM
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post #10  quote:

Have you ever looked to see how many troops die annually from non-combat related incidents?
I am interested to see how they can call this homicide?
To kill one of your own on purpose jeopardises the whole mission. I seriously doubt this was the case.
I can see how Tilman could have been mistaken for a rebel. Especially if they were dressed in local garb which, in many cases happens with Special Forces and getting in front of the squad would deffinatly expose him.



"Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those who say this are witless." ~Ayatollah Khomeini
Old Post 03-06-2006 06:32 PM
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nikiTa
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post #11  quote:

Accidental death by gunfire...hmmmm

Wonder where Cheney was...thought Tillman was a quail.


Old Post 03-06-2006 08:40 PM
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post #12  quote:

quote:
nikiTa said this in post #11 :
Accidental death by gunfire...hmmmm

Wonder where Cheney was...thought Tillman was a quail.


Sorry, as much laughter about somebody getting shot may be funny to the liberals, it is not funny to me in the slightest.
I will ignore that remark.



"Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those who say this are witless." ~Ayatollah Khomeini
Old Post 03-06-2006 08:50 PM
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post #13  quote:

quote:
nikiTa said this in post #11 :
Accidental death by gunfire...hmmmm

Wonder where Cheney was...thought Tillman was a quail.


BTW- Who said accidental death by gunfire? It sure wasn't me.
You must work for the Times.



"Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those who say this are witless." ~Ayatollah Khomeini
Old Post 03-06-2006 08:51 PM
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post #14  quote:

Accidental death by gunfire sounds a hell of a lot better than "friendly fire."

You are right, USA1, this isn't funny...that's why it should have been investigated a long time ago instead of been swept under a rug.


Old Post 03-06-2006 08:55 PM
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post #15  quote:

I am not sure it any of our busness except the family of Tilman. To publicize or politicize this seems wrong.
We are all human and in that fold there are those who commit murder and being in the military doesn't change that. However, I don't think this is the case.
I thin kit is a mistake in identity during a fire fight. What they told his parents is between them. It's not a relfection of our military general practice.



"Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those who say this are witless." ~Ayatollah Khomeini
Old Post 03-06-2006 09:11 PM
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