Here are a few facts I pulled from scholarly book Capatalism & Slavery written by historian Eric Williams. More FACTS (lodgebo) will come as I try an finish book:
Not until Act Of Union of 1707 was Scotland allowed to participate in colonial trade. That permission put Glasgow ( the New York of Scotland) on the map.
Bishop Pococke wrote in 1760 after visiting Glasgow " the city has above all others felt the advantages of the Union"
The development of the triangular slave trade and of shipping and shipbuilding led to growth of seaport towns Bristol, Liverpool,and Glasgow(Scotland).
First off I know that Glasgow is in Scotland but thaks for pointing it out anyway and the act of the union ( or act of parliment ) was in 1706 not 1707. It is articles 4 and 5 of the act that you are refering to I think. It must be said though that shipbuilding more than slavery was the reason behind Glasgows growth.
You might read about Dido Elizabeth Belle and her uncle or father Lord Mamsfield they freed the slaves in the UK.
Is this a legit book Malcom or is the same one that led you to say Scotland was secretly making a nuke.
Capatilism & Slavery written by Eric Williams , you can get ot any bookstore . And you do admit Scotland's role in slave trade? Scotland never mentioned when this topic is discuss. Some type of Reparations is due.
It is very rare for Scotland to be mentioned in this type of thing due to the English defeating the Scots at Cullodin and controlling the majority of Scotland up until the 1990's (I think) when they got political Independence.
The British however are mentioned about as much as any other country is when referring to the slave trade. That is the English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish (when they were under English rule.)
If you want to bring Scotland into this slave trade thing then you might as well bring in the Welsh, Irish, English and any other European superpower of the time.
Nobody really condones the slave trade but it is a part of history and there is no escaping that. The point is that Scotland, even if they were not at the time mentioned, were part of the Great British Empire, an Empire known for it's cruelty to wards the natives of the countries in its Empire. Because of the Scots heavy involvement in the making of that Empire their own actions as an independent country are more often than not overshadowed by the actions of the British Empire
"there's only one way to win a war: shout, shout, and shout again!" - The Duke of Wellington ((Blackadder - Stephen Fry))
From what I understand about the triangular slave trade, the British government had 6 ports set up as 3 primary ports and 3 secondary ports Bristol and Glasgow were secondary ports. As I understand the slave trade what happend was as follows, in the UK boats were loaded with gunpowder, copper etc etc these boats then sailed to parts of Africa where the goods were bartred for slaves, the ships then sailed to the US were the slaves were either sold or tarded for tobacco etc etc and then the boats came back to the home ports and rmaning slaves were sold to the big slave trade company called the African international trade company or something along those lines, this compnay was based in London. I also know that Liverpool and Lond were the main slave ports until 1833 when the trade was rightly aboished.
No doubt that Glasgow served as a port for this sad tarde but I would be intrested to know how many slaves came to or were sold in Glasgow ( if there is a figure in the book will you let know). As for reparations I think asking countries to back pay for all past wrongdoing would be dodgy who do you pay and how much? If reperations were to be paid it would be a matter for the UK government as it happend at the time when there was not a devolved Scottish Parliment ( if you feel strongly about this Malcolm PM me and will send you the E - mail adresses of the appropriate UK MP's that you can contact and rightly voice your anger about this trade).
I will address your second post later on, got to go out.
PS Like I said PM and I can get those E - Mail adresses form you it's no problem.
lodgebo said this in post #5 : From what I understand about the triangular slave trade, the British government had 6 ports set up as 3 primary ports and 3 secondary ports Bristol and Glasgow were secondary ports. As I understand the slave trade what happend was as follows, in the UK boats were loaded with gunpowder, copper etc etc these boats then sailed to parts of Africa where the goods were bartred for slaves, the ships then sailed to the US were the slaves were either sold or tarded for tobacco etc etc and then the boats came back to the home ports and rmaning slaves were sold to the big slave trade company called the African international trade company or something along those lines, this compnay was based in London. I also know that Liverpool and Lond were the main slave ports until 1833 when the trade was rightly aboished.
No doubt that Glasgow served as a port for this sad tarde but I would be intrested to know how many slaves came to or were sold in Glasgow ( if there is a figure in the book will you let know). As for reparations I think asking countries to back pay for all past wrongdoing would be dodgy who do you pay and how much? If reperations were to be paid it would be a matter for the UK government as it happend at the time when there was not a devolved Scottish Parliment ( if you feel strongly about this Malcolm PM me and will send you the E - mail adresses of the appropriate UK MP's that you can contact and rightly voice your anger about this trade).
I will address your second post later on, got to go out.
PS Like I said PM and I can get those E - Mail adresses form you it's no problem.
I will look as try and finish. Book giving me headache.
Thimk it would be better if you adrress your giv for me. You know politics of country and writing skills more polish.
I think I will try and get this book because it sounds quite interesting, my fiancee has a book called Evil Scotland ( bit harsh I thought) and that book has things about Scots that went to the US and started the KKK and she thinks there is a bit about salvery as well, she's going to look it out and if there is anything intresting I will let you know.
lodgebo said this in post #9 : No I am not a member of the party I did vote for them in the last election but I will not this time round as the leadership seems to be rather weak.
I do however hope and would like to see and independent Scotland one day.
Why do you ask anyways?
I want to expose your hypocrisy. Zimbabwe has same goal of independence from England. Your saying its okay for England to illegally occupy countries but not Scotland?
Well last time I checked Scotland was not and has no intention of illegally occupying countries we just sit up here freezing our asses off and getting drunk.
But Zimbabwe is a totally diffrent situation from what you are talking about you see Scotland has not had rigged elction, Scotland has not blamed every singlr problem on England, Scotland has not told Scottish people to retake land owned by English people, Scotland has not starved it's people to death, Scotland has not lost 1 miilion people in under a year ( What do you think happend to those 1 million anti - mugabe people Malcolm?), In Scotland you don't face 10 years in jail if you are gay, in Scotland the governmen does not destroy towns for no reason, Scotland did not send troops to fight in the Congolese war, Scotland has freedom of the press, Scotland has not been islotaed by the international community, Desomnod Tutu has not called Scotland leader a dictator, Scotland leader can fly anywhere in the europe as he has not had a travel restriction put on him ( Mugabe is in a fine group only paedos, rapists, murderers and hooligans get travel restrictions), Scotland does not condone rape ( hundred of white women were raped in Zimbabwe the claims were not investigated), Scotland does not have 50% unemploymewnt, 60% inflation and we are not spendi $1million+ to fight a war 1200 miles away which has nothing to do wioth us at all, Scotland would not reject aid beacuse of where it came from, Scotland is still has hard currency to buy oil and gas ( not that we need to). Zimbabwe has done all these things in the name of as you put it " independace".
Starnge that you calim Zimbabwe wants independance because on the 2nd March 1970 the then Rodesia was declared a republic cutting all it's ties with the UK it was not a suprising move at the time as Ian Smith had declred Rodesia independant in 1965 which the UK accepted Zimbabwe is not even classed as a commonwealth country so where you get the idea that this is for independance is beyond me. But hey if you think that Zimbabwe is such a wonderful place and better than Scotland and Mugabe ios such a wonderful leader I am sure that you could go ( don't take your camera they are banned) there is a lot of space after all 1 million spaces were made available recently.
lodgebo said this in post #11 : Well last time I checked Scotland was not and has no intention of illegally occupying countries we just sit up here freezing our asses off and getting drunk.
But Zimbabwe is a totally diffrent situation from what you are talking about you see Scotland has not had rigged elction, Scotland has not blamed every singlr problem on England, Scotland has not told Scottish people to retake land owned by English people, Scotland has not starved it's people to death, Scotland has not lost 1 miilion people in under a year ( What do you think happend to those 1 million anti - mugabe people Malcolm?), In Scotland you don't face 10 years in jail if you are gay, in Scotland the governmen does not destroy towns for no reason, Scotland did not send troops to fight in the Congolese war, Scotland has freedom of the press, Scotland has not been islotaed by the international community, Desomnod Tutu has not called Scotland leader a dictator, Scotland leader can fly anywhere in the europe as he has not had a travel restriction put on him ( Mugabe is in a fine group only paedos, rapists, murderers and hooligans get travel restrictions), Scotland does not condone rape ( hundred of white women were raped in Zimbabwe the claims were not investigated), Scotland does not have 50% unemploymewnt, 60% inflation and we are not spendi $1million+ to fight a war 1200 miles away which has nothing to do wioth us at all, Scotland would not reject aid beacuse of where it came from, Scotland is still has hard currency to buy oil and gas ( not that we need to). Zimbabwe has done all these things in the name of as you put it " independace".
Starnge that you calim Zimbabwe wants independance because on the 2nd March 1970 the then Rodesia was declared a republic cutting all it's ties with the UK it was not a suprising move at the time as Ian Smith had declred Rodesia independant in 1965 which the UK accepted Zimbabwe is not even classed as a commonwealth country so where you get the idea that this is for independance is beyond me. But hey if you think that Zimbabwe is such a wonderful place and better than Scotland and Mugabe ios such a wonderful leader I am sure that you could go ( don't take your camera they are banned) there is a lot of space after all 1 million spaces were made available recently.
getting drunk is only statement that was true. Where do you get this your info about Africa? Isn't there some penalty for propaganda and lies?
You say Scotland doesn't have NUCLEAR . what about this?
Under Freedom of Info Act sites were revealed to be dumping NUCLEAR waste. " Scotland sites identified as Downreay and Altnabeac, an under-sea site off Hunterston and two small Hebridean islands off Barra".
" This suggest Scotland was being lined up as UK's NUCLEAR waste dump...Scotland will have to pay the price for NUCLEAR obsession" ( Richard Lochhead of Scottish Nat Party)
Tommy Sheridan, a high ranking Scottish politician, was arrested at anti - NUCLEAR WEAPON demonstration at an Scottish Naval Base. " I refuse to recognize the inhumanity of NUCLEAR WEAPONS.... the biggest waste of taxpayer's money is the maintenence of weapons of mass destruction"
Under Freedom of Info Act sites were revealed to be dumping NUCLEAR waste. " Scotland sites identified as Downreay and Altnabeac, an under-sea site off Hunterston and two small Hebridean islands off Barra".
" This suggest Scotland was being lined up as UK's NUCLEAR waste dump...Scotland will have to pay the price for NUCLEAR obsession" ( Richard Lochhead of Scottish Nat Party)
Tommy Sheridan, a high ranking Scottish politician, was arrested at anti - NUCLEAR WEAPON demonstration at an Scottish Naval Base. " I refuse to recognize the inhumanity of NUCLEAR WEAPONS.... the biggest waste of taxpayer's money is the maintenence of weapons of mass destruction"
Two questions.
First how did this turn into a Nuclear Weapon and waste thing?
This was about Scotland being involved in the Slave trade. Something that every European country and even American business men were involved in, and now it's something about Scotland becoming a Nuclear testing ground or something. Which would never happen because the majority of Britains care too much about Scotlands natural beauty to allow anything like that.
And secondly, do you, my American friend Macolm xx, think that everybody in Britain is a member of a 'national' party?
I voted for the Lib-Dems in last elections, my first vote in any election having just become old enough to vote. The BNP gained seats and the majority of, not only papers and politions, but people in general were suprised and shocked than anyone would vote the BNP in, who have been proved to have at least racial undertones (as anything else would be libelous to say about them).
They only got about 12 seats but that is missing only one that they tried to get. Hardly the overwhelming majority of Britains voting considering the Tories, sorry Conservatives, ended up with well over 900 and Labour and the Lib-Dems still had about 400 seats each.
"there's only one way to win a war: shout, shout, and shout again!" - The Duke of Wellington ((Blackadder - Stephen Fry))
You know Malcolm I was gone I had left gone on to patures new and one night I was bored thought I would have a look and lo and behold I found the piece of comedy you have posted below. Normally I would let it fly but the fact that you have A. been misinformed of the facts and B. have totally gone of the subject. menat that I felt I should come back and set the record straight.
Well at least you agree that I speak the truth unlike you who continues to peddle the same racist BS that actually cuases more racism than it cures.
You say Scotland doesn't have NUCLEAR .
No I did not say Scotland has nuclear I said Scotland does not have nuke weapons ( more BS that you continued to peddle at on at least 2 boards)
Under Freedom of Info Act sites were revealed to be dumping NUCLEAR waste. " Scotland sites identified as Downreay and Altnabeac, an under-sea site off Hunterston and two small Hebridean islands off Barra".
Ok lets break this down Dounray ( you remeber Dounray that's the place you claimed was stockpiling nukes) and Hunterston are Nuclear power station sites and as a result obviously will have waste near them. Altnabec never heard of will have to look it up. As for the islands you have to name them or I cant deny or admit it can I ( little hint the islands will be named in the FOI report)
This suggest Scotland was being lined up as UK's NUCLEAR waste dump...Scotland will have to pay the price for NUCLEAR obsession" ( Richard Lochhead of Scottish Nat Party)
Richard Lochead well when did he say this? recently I bet probably around the same time he was fightuing a by - election which was also the same time that Blair said that the UK may have to go nuclear. Intrestingly you have omitted a piece of info and that is thatv Jack McConnel has told Westminster that he wont allow nuclear waste to be dumped in Scotland. Whats your response to that piece if news?
Tommy Sheridan, a high ranking Scottish politician, was arrested at anti - NUCLEAR WEAPON demonstration at an Scottish Naval Base. " I refuse to recognize the inhumanity of NUCLEAR WEAPONS.... the biggest waste of taxpayer's money is the maintenence of weapons of mass destruction"
Oh Tommy Sheridan the fine outstanding pillar of Scottish politics the guy is a socialist whackjob he had to give up leadeship of his party because he there were warrants for his arrest at thge present time theis headcase has been in jail at least 40 times since 2000. He also shows his lack of knowlege on the subject as nukes are maintained at the AWE in Surrey. This guy has spent at least 60% of his political carrer at demostartions and always gets arrested.
As Tiger said Malcom what the hell this has to do with that ***t mugabe or even the slave trade is beyond me but I guess you have ran out of arguements. Maybe I will check back now and again to see what you think.
White Tiger said this in post #13 : Malcolm xx said this in post #12
Two questions.
First how did this turn into a Nuclear Weapon and waste thing?
This was about Scotland being involved in the Slave trade. Something that every European country and even American business men were involved in, and now it's something about Scotland becoming a Nuclear testing ground or something. Which would never happen because the majority of Britains care too much about Scotlands natural beauty to allow anything like that.
And secondly, do you, my American friend Macolm xx, think that everybody in Britain is a member of a 'national' party?
I voted for the Lib-Dems in last elections, my first vote in any election having just become old enough to vote. The BNP gained seats and the majority of, not only papers and politions, but people in general were suprised and shocked than anyone would vote the BNP in, who have been proved to have at least racial undertones (as anything else would be libelous to say about them).
They only got about 12 seats but that is missing only one that they tried to get. Hardly the overwhelming majority of Britains voting considering the Tories, sorry Conservatives, ended up with well over 900 and Labour and the Lib-Dems still had about 400 seats each.
I was respondng to Lodgebo's denial that Scotland doesn't have Nuclear program. FOI Act gives evidence that can be read by anyone intrested.
I will give true history of Zimbabwe . Had to do some research. Unable to spin and create stories like Logebo.
02-23-2006 06:04 AM
