Bush did a good job tonight...MUCH better than the first debate.
Personally, I thought Kerry attacked more than answered the questions...when he did get around to answering them after his attacking episodes...he left no time to expand on answering the question.
And IMO..Kerry is void of any sort of charisma.
Of course thats just my opinion....I could be wrong. (Dennis Miller)
"You might be the toughest little whacker. . .but in my world, you're about as worrisome as a cloudy day." (Dutch Dooley)
No question Bush did a better job than last time, but still no match for Kerry. That's simply because Kerry is right and Bush is wrong (on virtually every topic discussed).
Bush was well schooled by Rove as to how not to scowl, but he still looked like he was scowling most of the time - eyes blinking, mouth quivering. He comes across like "I'm President and who is this guy to say I'm doing my job wrong?"
Kerry's plans make more sense, Kerry comes across as far more presidential, John Kerry will be the next president of the United States. You'll get your sons in Iraq home sooner. You'll see your health care made more affordable and available. There will be more jobs and less unemployment. You will no longer be lied to. Your taxes will NOT be raised. Any rich folks here? I don't think so. If so, sorry about that! You'll still have plenty left over and nobody will take your expensive homes and two Mercedes away from you.
AZIdolfan said this in post #4 : Kerry's plans make more sense
No they actually dont...especially knowing that he wont have the money to do them until he taxes us middle class folk.
Kerry comes across as far more presidential
No..I dont think so.
John Kerry will be the next president of the United States.
Maybe...its hard to say one way or the other unless of course you go by your ridiculous polls....oh, which you feel you have to do to make yourself feel better
You'll get your sons in Iraq home sooner.
No...you wont.
You'll see your health care made more affordable and available.
With the government running it? Mmmhmm. as if I want the government to control my medical care...talk to someone who lives in Canada and see what the waiting list is like to get an operation.
There will be more jobs and less unemployment.
You are so uneducated about what the final outcome will be on "his plan." There will eventually be more people out of work, and higher product prices.
You will no longer be lied to.
But he has already lied...you know it..you can admit it
Your taxes will NOT be raised. Any rich folks here? I don't think so. If so, sorry about that! You'll still have plenty left over and nobody will take your expensive homes and two Mercedes away from you.
Small business owners ARE middle class!!! What exactly dont you understand about that?
Of course thats just my opinion....I could be wrong. (Dennis Miller)
"You might be the toughest little whacker. . .but in my world, you're about as worrisome as a cloudy day." (Dutch Dooley)
Okay, Mystic, please find me an unbiased one and I'll be glad to post the results.
Or are they ALL biased? If so, I guess that would mean Bush is in big, big trouble.
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I already did that the last time we had this argument...I posted a poll much different than yours that said Cheney won over Edwards...My point was dont believe everything you see on a poll.
They arent accurate and they leave out too many people. I dont participate in polls...that leaves my vote off...and there are too many people like me that dont bother with polls.
But you just keep on doing what you want....let others think for ya...you cant even think ahead and see the consequences of Kerry plans...that tells me alot about you.
Of course thats just my opinion....I could be wrong. (Dennis Miller)
"You might be the toughest little whacker. . .but in my world, you're about as worrisome as a cloudy day." (Dutch Dooley)
No they actually dont...especially knowing that he wont have the money to do them until he taxes us middle class folk.
Trust his pledge. The taxes will be derived from rollbacks of the huge cuts given to the rich.
You'll see your health care made more affordable and available.
With the government running it? Mmmhmm. as if I want the government to control my medical care...talk to someone who lives in Canada and see what the waiting list is like to get an operation .
Bush sure has taken you in with his fabrications, hasn't he? Kerry made it crystal clear that it will NOT be a government run plan. Even if it were (which it is not) it would be better than what Bush has given us!
There will be more jobs and less unemployment.
You are so uneducated about what the final outcome will be on "his plan." There will eventually be more people out of work, and higher product prices.
No, I think you are being a little naive on this. The stats that came out today are appalling. Furthermore, what new jobs were created were largely low wage jobs.
You will no longer be lied to.
But he has already lied...you know it..you can admit it
The lies were told by Bush. Americans are beginning more and more to understand that. Bush is backed into a corner and cannot admit it.
Your taxes will NOT be raised. Any rich folks here? I don't think so. If so, sorry about that! You'll still have plenty left over and nobody will take your expensive homes and two Mercedes away from you.
Small business owners ARE middle class!!! What exactly dont you understand about that?
I'm really sorry that you don't understand about taxes. I work with taxes for a living. The tax rollback will affect individuals, not businesses, per se. Large businesses will experience the tax increase. Small businesses will not. Small businesses are either sole proprietorship, S- Corporations, partnerships, limited liability companies or regular C-Corporations. In every case, the only tax increase to be applied will be on the individual with a high income (over $200k), whether earned as an individual or passed through as a conduit from one of the entities I just mentioned. Large corporations will feel the tax increase too, as they should. Also, you've got to understand that this is not going to be a new tax. It's purely a negation of previous tax cuts granted by the Bush administration that NEVER should have been done in time of war and economic deficit. The tax cut to be eliminated will only be at the top, not the bottom and not the middle.
Sorry, but that's how it works. I tried to explain it to you in a nutshell, but if you want a more lengthy explanation of how taxation works, let me know. Maybe there are others here too that are too willing to believe what Bush is trying to con you into believing.
AZIdolfan said this in post #9 : Trust his pledge. The taxes will be derived from rollbacks of the huge cuts given to the rich.
IT NOT ENOUGH!!! Get a clue!
Bush sure has taken you in with his fabrications, hasn't he? Kerry made it crystal clear that it will NOT be a government run plan. Even if it were (which it is not) it would be better than what Bush has given us!
He said it tonight...what were you listening to? He said he would put it in the hands of the government...but we could still pick our doctors...I like my doctor...I dont need to change....i dont need the government to run it..
Again...talk to a Canadian...if you want the truth.
No, I think you are being a little naive on this. The stats that came out today are appalling. Furthermore, what new jobs were created were largely low wage jobs.
You are being naive, my friend, not I.
The lies were told by Bush. Americans are beginning more and more to understand that. Bush is backed into a corner and cannot admit it.
If Bush said the lie and Kerry backed him..then what does that say? You are reading more into it than you can understand.
I'm really sorry that you don't understand about taxes. I work with taxes for a living. The tax rollback will affect individuals, not businesses, per se. Large businesses will experience the tax increase. Small businesses will not. Small businesses are either sole proprietorship, S- Corporations, partnerships, limited liability companies or regular C-Corporations. In every case, the only tax increase to be applied will be on the individual with a high income (over $200k), whether earned as an individual or passed through as a conduit from one of the entities I just mentioned. Large corporations will feel the tax increase too, as they should. Also, you've got to understand that this is not going to be a new tax. It's purely a negation of previous tax cuts granted by the Bush administration that NEVER should have been done in time of war and economic deficit. The tax cut to be eliminated will only be at the top, not the bottom and not the middle.
Yada, yada, yada...I understand them completely.
I also understand I wouldnt let you anywhere near my taxes if you dont get it.
Sorry, but that's how it works. I tried to explain it to you in a nutshell, but if you want a more lengthy explanation of how taxation works, let me know. Maybe there are others here too that are too willing to believe what Bush is trying to con you into believing.
Hmmm..no thanks..already been through this with you...I didnt buy your stuff then..and I would venture to guess, I wont buy it now.
BTW....what would ever make you think that I would take the word of someone who doesnt understand the basic problems of a poll?
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Of course thats just my opinion....I could be wrong. (Dennis Miller)
"You might be the toughest little whacker. . .but in my world, you're about as worrisome as a cloudy day." (Dutch Dooley)
One thing about taxing big corporations, as if those "evil" entities deserve it... do you really think that they will let those higher taxes eat into their profits? No way! They will pass on those higher costs of doing business onto, guess who, you and me! The middle class!
He said it tonight...what were you listening to? He said he would put it in the hands of the government...but we could still pick our doctors...I like my doctor...I dont need to change....i dont need the government to run it..
Here's a synopsis of what was said at the debate on the health care issue.
quote:
The senator used the question to remind the audience that some five million Americans have lost health care insurance since Bush came to office. He asked them to "join me in rolling back the president's unaffordable tax cut cut" in order to finance his health care reforms.
Bush charged that the senator is "the most liberal senator" in the Senate and that "he's going to tax everybody here" in order to pay for his health care plan, not just the wealthy. He also said Kerry's health care plan was "government sponsored" and would lead to rationing of health care.
Kerry pointed out that his health care plan is patterned after the choice of plans members of Congress from which members of Congress choose. And he accused the president of "throwing around labels" in order to frighten voters.
I also have the debate recorded.
Too bad that you just don't get it when it comes to what rolling back tax cuts will do and how they work. Georgie lies and you swear to it. That's just his stupid opinion, not gospel.
I guess if King George told you a pig could fly, you would believe it. I guess if King George told you he invaded Iraq to liberate the Iraqi people and make the world safer, you would believe that too. Wait, you already do. So do too many other gullible people who really want to believe.
Mort Kondracke: "... I think Kerry won this debate as he won the first debate I don't think... I thought that Kerry was much more aggressive and the president was basically on the defense and didn't have new arguments didn't have...wasn't as facile as he should have been." [Fox News Channel, 10/8/04]
Bill Kristol: "I guess I think if you think the President was doing okay and didn't need a win in this debate, he did fine, but I think, if one thinks that Bush missed an awful lot of opportunities to go after Kerry in the first debate he had to make some of them up in this debate, I'm not sure he really succeeded in doing so." [Fox New Channel, 10/8/04]
Brit Hume: "Is it now fair to say that in each of these debates in terms of marshaling arguments, and remembering them and presenting them that this is something John Kerry has proved he is very good at. And that it doesn't play to the president's strong suit." [Fox News Channel, 10/8/04]
Mort Kondracke: "I thought [Kerry] was very effective. I thought that he was also on the attack a lot and frankly I thought that the President seemed to be on the defense a lot and trying to explain things and not explaining them all that well." [Fox News Channel, 10/8/04]
Tim Russert: "John Kerry, also, energetic, forceful." [NBC, 10/8/04]
Jonah Goldberg: "On the question of whether Bush did everything he needed to tonight, I don't think so. I think he helped himself, but Kerry leaves these debates energized." [National Review Online, 10/8/04]
Mark Shields: "He just absolutely, I thought, demolished the President's claims about the coalition in Iraq." [PBS, 10/8/04]
James Fallows, Atlantic Monthly: [Kerry's best moment] "I think his best moment was at the series of new lines. Again like this Missouri line of saying that that I was able to do with some of my votes in the Senate what you have failed to do, which is balance the budget, so I think it was the general vividness of his approach." [CBS, 10/8/04]
Perry Bacon: "I actually was struck that Kerry was pretty strong, I thought, in the foreign policy section, actually, and sort of hit the president hard on that." [CNN, 10/8/04]
I actually think that every poll is biased and you have to evaluate this yourself.
I see some of the interviews and wonder if they were even watching the same debate. CNN, MSNBC, FOX. Every poll is different.
The CNN polls may say Kerry won the debate, but you can't deny the fact that Kerry's plans have not been released to the public. He may have a plan but, I haven't seen it.
Bush qualified every question with an answer.
Kerry did the lawyer dance, "Bush did this", then "I have a plan". I saw no answer other than, "I have a plan to fix it or make it better". And buy the way, no new taxes. Yipeee!
If you vote for this knucklehead, you need serious therapy.
"Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those who say this are witless." ~Ayatollah Khomeini
10-09-2004 03:13 AM
