both gave very good answers to this and the first few questions. A clear winner didn't start to emerge til a little later.
If Bush were smart, and he may just be smart enough to do this, if reelected, should also do the things Kerry outlined. They are simply things that need to be done by the Commander-in-Chief of the United States, regardless of who is actually in office.
I wonder what would have happened if Bush had given the answer he did, then added "and my opponent's ideas are sound, I plan on doing that as well." An honest, humble politician would be a strange, rare sight.
Strengthen Military and Intelligence - He has a 20 year record of voting against our military and intelligence
Never give a veto to any country over our security - I'm not really sure what that means. If it means not bowing in to a country like France vetoing our resolution, then that is what the President did.
Do a better job training the Iraqi's - So our military is incompetent and can't do a good job training the Iraqi's???
No speech making Ron. If you have a point to make, back it up with facts not your opinion on these things. You say We have strong alliances, show what that strong alliances is. You say Kerry voted against our military and intelligence. Show exactly how he did that and then show what Cheney's voting record on the same issues were when he was in the congress.
What have anti-zionists and arab terrorists got in common?
Kerry voted against weapons needed for War on Terror. (Sep 2004)
Voted YES on allowing another round of military base closures. (May 1999)
Voted NO on deploying missile defense as soon as possible. (Sep 1998) Vote Yes a year later...
Voted YES on deploying National Missile Defense ASAP. (Mar 1999)
Voted NO on $86.5 billion for military operations in Iraq & Afghanistan. (Oct 2003)
Voted YES on authorizing use of military force against Iraq. (Oct 2002)
Voted NO on allowing all necessary forces and other means in Kosovo. (May 1999)
Voted YES on authorizing air strikes in Kosovo. (Mar 1999)
Voted NO on favoring 36 vetoed military projects . (Oct 1997)
Voted YES on banning chemical weapons. (Apr 1997)
Voted NO on considering deploying NMD, and amending ABM Treaty. (Jun 1996)
Voted NO on 1996 Defense Appropriations. (Sep 1995)
1995: Proposed Bill Cutting $1.5 Billion From Intelligence Budget. Kerry
introduced a bill that would “reduce the Intelligence budget by $300 million in
each of fiscal years 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, and 2000.” There were no
cosponsors of Kerry’s bill, which never made it to the floor for a vote. (S.
1290, Introduced 9/29/95)
1995: Voted To Slash FBI Funding By $80 Million. (H.R. 2076, CQ Vote #480:
Adopted 49-41: R 9-40; D 40-1, 9/29/95, Kerry Voted Yea)
1994: Proposed Bill To Gut $1 Billion From Intelligence And Freeze Spending For
Two Major Intelligence Programs. Kerry proposed a bill cutting $1 billion from
the budgets of the National Foreign Intelligence Program and from Tactical
Intelligence, and freezing their budgets. The bill did not make it to a vote,
but the language was later submitted (and defeated – see below) as S. Amdt. 1452
to H.R. 3759. (S. 1826, Introduced 2/3/94)
1997: Kerry Questioned Growth Of Intelligence Community After Cold War. “Now
that that [Cold War] struggle is over, why is it that our vast intelligence
apparatus continues to grow even as Government resources for new and essential priorities fall far short of what is necessary? …” (Senator John Kerry Agreeing That Critic's Concerns Be Addressed, Congressional Record, 5/1/97, p. S3891)
When His Bill Stalled In Committee, Kerry Proposed $1 Billion Cut As
Amendment Instead. Kerry proposed cutting $1 billion from the National Foreign
Intelligence Program and Tactical Intelligence budgets, and freezing their
budgets. The amendment was defeated, with even Graham, Lieberman and Braun
voting against Kerry. (Amdt.. To H.R. 3759, CQ Vote #39: Rejected 20-75: R 3-37;
D 17-38, 2/10/94, Kerry Voted Yea; Graham, Lieberman And Braun Voted Nay)
After all the above, he has the nerve to say this, after 9/11
12 Days After 9/11: Kerry Questioned Quality Of Intelligence. “And the tragedy
is, at the moment, that the single most important weapon for the United States
of America is intelligence. … And we are weakest, frankly, in that particular
area. So it’s going to take us time to be able to build up here to do this
properly.” (CBS’s “Face The Nation,” 9/23/01)
SEN. KERRY’S DEFENSE STRATEGY: CUT CRITICAL WEAPONS SYSTEMS
In 1996, Introduced Bill To Slash Defense Department Funding By $6.5 Billion.
Kerry’s bill had no co-sponsors and never came to a floor vote. (S. 1580,
Introduced 2/29/96)
In 1995, Voted To Freeze Defense Spending For 7 Years, Slashing Over $34 Billion From Defense. Only 27 other Senators voted with Kerry.
Fiscal 1996 Budget Resolution – Defense Freeze. “Harkin, D-Iowa,
amendment to freeze defense spending for the next seven years and transfer the
$34.8 billion in savings to education and job training.” (S. Con. Res. 13, CQ
Vote #181: Rejected 28-71: R 2-51; D 26-20, 5/24/95, Kerry Voted Yea)
In 1993, Introduced Plan To Cut Numerous Defense Programs, Including:
Cut the number of Navy submarines and their crews
Reduce the number of light infantry units in the Army down to one
Reduce tactical fighter wings in the Air Force
Terminate the Navy’s coastal mine-hunting ship program
Force the retirement of no less than 60,000 members of the Armed Forces
in one year. (S.1163, Introduced 6/24/93,
Has Voted Repeatedly To Cut Defense Spending, Including:
In 1993, Voted Against Increased Defense Spending For Military Pay
Raise. Kerry voted to kill an increase in military pay over five years. (S. Con.
Res. 18, CQ Vote #73: Motion Agreed To 55-42: R 2-39; D 53-3, 3/24/93, Kerry
Voted Yea)
In 1992, Voted To Cut $6 Billion From Defense. Republicans and Democrats
successfully blocked the attempt to cut defense spending. (S. Con. Res. 106, CQ
Vote #73: Motion Agreed To 53-40: R 38-1; D 15-39, 4/9/92, Kerry Voted Nay)
In 1991, Voted To Slash Over $3 Billion From Defense, Shift Money To
Social Programs. Only 27 Senators joined Kerry in voting for the defense cut.
(H.R. 2707, CQ Vote #182: Motion Rejected 28-69: R 3-39; D 25-30, 9/10/91, Kerry
Voted Yea)
In 1991, Voted To Cut Defense Spending By 2%. Only 21 other Senators
voted with Kerry, and the defense cut was defeated. (S. Con. Res. 29, CQ Vote
#49: Motion Rejected 22-73: R 1-39; D 21-34, 4/25/91, Kerry Voted Yea)
Has Voted Repeatedly To Cut Or Eliminate Funding For B-2 Stealth Bomber. (H.R.
3072, CQ Vote #203: Rejected 29-71: R 2-43; D 27-28, 9/26/89, Kerry Voted Yea;
H.R. 3072, CQ Vote #310: Rejected 29-68: R 3-41; D 26-27, 11/18/89, Kerry Voted
Yea; S. 2884, CQ Vote #208: Rejected 43-56: R 8-36; D 35-20, 8/2/90, Kerry Voted
Yea; S. 2884, CQ Vote #209: Rejected 45-53: R 9-34; D 36-19, 8/2/90, Kerry Voted
Yea; S. 1507, CQ Vote #174: Rejected 42-57: R 7-36; D 35-21, 8/1/91, Kerry Voted
Yea; H.R. 2521, CQ Vote #206: Motion Agreed To 51-48: R 36-7; D 15-41, 9/25/91,
Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2403, CQ Vote #85: Adopted 61-38: R 7-36; D 54-2, 5/6/92,
Kerry Voted Yea; S. 3114, CQ Vote #216: Rejected 45-53: R 8-35; D 37-18,
9/18/92, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 2182, CQ Vote #179: Rejected 45-55: R 8-36; D
37-19, 7/1/94, Kerry Voted Yea)
Has Voted Repeatedly Against Missile Defense. (S. 1507, CQ Vote #171: Motion
Agreed To 60-38: R 40-3; D 20-35, 8/1/91, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1507, CQ Vote
#173: Rejected 46-52: R 5-38; D 41-14, 8/1/91, Kerry Voted Yea; H.R. 2521, CQ
Vote #207: Motion Agreed To 50-49: R 38-5; D 12-44, 9/25/91, Kerry Voted Nay; S.
2403, CQ Vote #85: Adopted 61-38: R 7-36; D 54-2, 5/6/92, Kerry Voted Yea; S.
3114, CQ Vote #182: Rejected 43-49: R 34-5; D 9-44, 8/7/92, Kerry Voted Nay; S.
3114, CQ Vote #214: Rejected 48-50: R 5-38; D 43-12, 9/17/92, Kerry Voted Yea;
S. 3114, CQ Vote #215: Adopted 52-46: R 39-4; D 13-42, 9/17/92, Kerry Voted Nay;
S. 1298, CQ Vote #251: Adopted 50-48: R 6-36; D 44-12, 10/9/93, Kerry Voted Yea;
S. Con. Res. 63, CQ Vote #64: Rejected 40-59: R 2-42; D 38-17, 3/22/94, Kerry
Voted Yea; S. 1026, CQ Vote #354: Motion Agreed To 51-48: R 47-6; D 4-42,
8/3/95, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1087, CQ Vote #384: Rejected 45-54: R 5-49; D 40-5,
8/10/95, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1745, CQ Vote #160: Rejected 44-53: R 4-49; D 40-4,
6/19/96, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1507, CQ Vote #168: Rejected 39-60: R 4-39; D
35-21, 7/31/91, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1507, CQ Vote #172: Motion Agreed To 64-34:
R 39-4; D 25-30, 8/1/91, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1873, CQ Vote #131: Rejected 59-41:
R 55-0; D 4-41; I 0-0, 5/13/98, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1873, CQ Vote #262:
Rejected 59-41: R 55-0; D 4-41, 9/9/98, Kerry Voted Nay; S 1635, CQ Vote #157:
Rejected 53-46: R 52-0; D 1-46, 6/4/96, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2549, CQ Vote #178:
Motion Agreed To 52-48: R 52-3; D 0-45, 7/13/00, Kerry Voted Nay)
KERRY OPPOSED WEAPONS CRITICAL TO RECENT MILITARY SUCCESSES
Running For Senate In 1984, Kerry Promised Massive Defense Cuts. “Kerry in 1984 said he would have voted to cancel … the B-1 bomber, B-2 stealth bomber, AH-64 Apache helicopter, Patriot missile, the F-15, F-14A and F-14D jets, the AV-8B Harrier jet, the Aegis air-defense cruiser, and the Trident missile system. He also advocated reductions in many other systems, such as the M1 Abrams tank, the Bradley Fighting Vehicle, the Tomahawk cruise missile, and the F-16 jet.” (Brian
C. Mooney, “Taking One Prize, Then A Bigger One,” The Boston Globe, 6/19/03)
Weapons Kerry Sought To Phase Out Were Vital In Iraq. “[K]erry supported
cancellation of a host of weapons systems that have become the basis of US
military might -- the high-tech munitions and delivery systems on display to the
world as they leveled the Iraqi regime of Saddam Hussein in a matter of weeks.”
(Brian C. Mooney, “Taking One Prize, Then A Bigger One,” The Boston Globe,
6/19/03)
F-16 Fighting Falcons. “The Air Force would also play an important role
in strikes against high-ranking officials of the Ba’ath regime. On April 4, two
Air Force F-16 Fighting Falcons dropped laser-guided munitions on the house of
Ali Hassan al-Majid, a.k.a. ‘Chemical Ali,’ in Basra.” (Abraham Genauer,
“Technology And Volume Of Sorties Overwhelmed The Iraqis’ Defenses,” The Hill, 5/21/03)
B-1Bs B-2As F-15 And F-16s. “On the night of March 21 alone, the first
of ‘shock and awe,’ coalition air forces flew nearly 2,000 missions. … Involved
were Air Force B-1B Lancers, B-2A Spirits, … F-15E Strike Eagles and F-16
Fighting Falcons…” (Abraham Genauer, “Technology And Volume Of Sorties
Overwhelmed The Iraqis’ Defenses,” The Hill, 5/21/03)
M1 Abrams. “‘[M1 Abrams] tanks were the sledgehammer in this war,’ added
Pat Garrett, an associate analyst with GlobalSecurity.org. ‘The tank was the
tool that allowed [the ground forces] to progress as fast as they did.’”
(Patrick O’Connor, “Revolutionary Tank Tactics Alter Iraqi Conflict, Future Of
Urban Warfare,” The Hill, 5/21/03)
Patriot Missile. “U.S. Central Command says the Patriots … have improved
to the point where they intercepted nine of the Iraqis’ short-range al-Samoud 2
and Ababil-100 missiles in this conflict.” (Andrea Stone, “Patriot Missile:
Friend Or Foe To Allied Troops?” USA Today, 4/15/03)
AH-64 Apache Helicopter. “Recently, Apaches in Afghanistan achieved
success directly supporting ground troops. … Whether in shaping the battle in a
combined arms Warfighter-type fight where intelligence of the enemy is known, or
by conducting close combat attacks in direct support of a ground commander, the Longbow Apache provides significantly increased flexibility and firepower for U.S. Army forces …” (Maj. David J. Rude and Lt. Col. Daniel E. Williams, “The ‘Warfighter Mindset’ and the War in Iraq,” Army Magazine, 7/03)
Tomahawk Cruise Missile. “The first operational use [of Tomahawk cruise
missiles] was in Operation Desert Storm, 1991, with immense success. The missile has since been used successfully in several other conflicts … include[ing] Bosnia … in 1995 and in Iraq again … in 1996 … [and in] strikes against training camps run by Osama Bin Laden’s al-Qaeda network in Afghanistan in 1998. Cruise missiles were also fired during the air campaign over Kosovo in 1999.” (Vivek Rai, “Cruise Missiles, By Air And Sea,” MSNBC.com, Accessed 7/17/03)
Aegis Air-Defense Cruiser. “During Operation Iraqi Freedom, [the Aegis
cruiser] Bunker Hill … was one of the first warships to conduct Tomahawk strikes
against leadership targets in Iraq. The ship launched a total of 31 missiles
during the war. Its embarked … helicopter detachment … supported the rescue of
United Nations workers being forcibly removed from oil platforms in the Northern
Arabian Gulf and provided medical evacuations from the Iraqi city of Umm Qasr.”
(S.A. Thornbloom, “USS Bunker Hill Makes Revolutionary Return,”
NavyDispatch.com, Accessed 7/17/03)
During 1980s, Kerry And Michael Dukakis Joined Forces With Liberal Group
Dedicated To Slashing Defense. Kerry sat on the board of “Jobs With Peace
Campaign,” which sought to “develop public support for cutting the defense
budget…” (“Pentagon Demonstrators Call For Home-Building, Not Bombs,” The
Associated Press, 6/3/88)
Running For Congress In 1972, Kerry Promised To Cut Defense Spending. “On what he’ll do if he’s elected to Congress, Kerry said he would ‘bring a different kind of message to the president.’ He said he would vote against military appropriations.” (“Candidate’s For Congress Capture Campus In Andover,” Lawrence [MA] Eagle-Tribune, 4/21/72)
Instead of copying and pasting from right wing web sites lets see the actual bills and votes. That way we can get an honest appraisal of what the bills entailed and why the votes were made the way they were.
What have anti-zionists and arab terrorists got in common?
LOL. I'll just have to reject your posts as being nothing more than right wing speech making with no hard facts to substanicate them.
It's impossible to have an honest discussion with someone makes statements like Kerry voted against weapons needed for War on Terror. (Sep 2004). Where are the facts to back that up? Or any of the facts to back up that whole post.
Then Ron makes his next post listing Senate bills and the votes for them. I decided to ramdomly check one of them
In 1996, Introduced Bill To Slash Defense Department Funding By $6.5 Billion. Kerry’s bill had no co-sponsors and never came to a floor vote. (S. 1580, Introduced 2/29/96)
Guess what I found when I checked that bill? That bill had nothing to do with Slashing Defense Department Funding.
quote:
Medicare Venipuncture Assessment Act of 1998 (Introduced in Senate)
S 1580 IS
105th CONGRESS
2d Session
S. 1580
To amend the Balanced Budget Act of 1997 to place an 18-month moratorium on the prohibition of payment under the medicare program for home health services consisting of venipuncture solely for the purpose of obtaining a blood sample, and to require the Secretary of Health and Human Services to study potential fraud and abuse under such program with respect to such services.
You have to understand something IsraelIs4Ever, they haven't done any research, it's such a cut and paste job from an e-mail or website.
I remember I got 15 bills back around the Democratic National Convention and I went and researched each bill providing adequate links to the actual bills along with historical reference so that any cuts made sense. The fact that people like Ron Ackerman put up the same information again without even responding to or considering previous posts by other users says a lot.
You start to sound like a broken record Ron when you don't go to each bill or amendment and explain why a vote is bad or weak on defense. And again, stop bringing up things from the early 1990's; Bush I and Cheney called for those cuts and the Soviet Union fell, there was no longer a need for weapons with nuclear capabilities and such gluttonous military spending. Aren't you a conservative? Whatever happened to fiscal responsibility. It's not about how much money you spend, it's about how you spend it.
I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody.
- Bill Cosby
The guy who takes a chance, who walks the line between the known and unknown, who is unafraid of failure, will succeed.
- Gordon Parks
IsraelIs4Ever said this in post #11 : It's impossible to have an honest discussion with someone makes statements like Kerry voted against weapons needed for War on Terror . (Sep 2004). Where are the facts to back that up? Or any of the facts to back up that whole post.
Just for clarification, here is a sample of the transcript discussing the above mentioned vote.
"Bush: As well, help is on the way, but it‘s certainly hard to tell it when he voted against the $87-billion supplemental to provide equipment for our troops, and then said he actually did vote for it before he voted against it.
Not what a commander in chief does when you‘re trying to lead troops."
LEHRER: Senator Kerry, 30 seconds.
"KERRY: Well, you know, when I talked about the $87 billion, I made a mistake in how I talk about the war. But the president made a mistake in invading Iraq. Which is worse?
I believe that when you know something‘s going wrong, you make it right. That‘s what I learned in Vietnam. When I came back from that war I saw that it was wrong. Some people don‘t like the fact that I stood up to say no, but I did. And that‘s what I did with that vote. And I‘m going to lead those troops to victory."
- Kerry admits that he voted against the $87 billion surplus that would have properly armed the troops in Iraq...in a way to protest the war after it was already underway. Yet he voted to go to war to begin with. The point is, you can't send your troops into battle and then say, "you know what, I'm not going to arm you, but I want you to fight." It's just not reasonable. Was it reasonable to go to war to begin with? That's an entirely different matter for discussion. But the above was provided to show that Ron wasn't simply making things up. He's not a part of some "right wing" conspiracy. Like everyone here he posts information and facts that he finds, along with his opinions...just like the rest of us.
Then Ron makes his next post listing Senate bills and the votes for them. I decided to ramdomly check one of them
The above link will take you to a PDF copy of the document Ron mentioned in his post and that you randomly selected, Israel. Clearly the information you posted in response was incorrect. While your argument is admirable, it is also baseless.
Inner City, with the information that Ron posted above it would take him hours upon hours to follow up each posting of bills and Kerry's decision on them to provide you with a satisfactory summarization to prove his point. I'm sure he has a life to attend to rather than devote it to such things. As the opposing side I suggest if you have a problem with the information he's provided, that you take it upon yourself to prove the information to be false. He has no reason to respond because you have provided nothing but accusations that the information is incorrect. You have not presented any information to prove your theory to be correct. I suggest if you want clarification on all of the information he provided, that you find it yourself.
Holy War....You're basically killing each other to see who's got the better imaginary friend. - Richard Jeni
10-02-2004 03:24 PM
A clear winner didn't start to emerge til a little later.
An honest, humble politician would be a strange, rare sight.
