Religion is age old since the civilization came into existence. It began when human’s brain advanced to realize to have faith, and worship the systems of the society. Human lived in small groups, regulations and systems were formed to maintain discipline in the group. All small groups had own ideology that were obligatory to all group members. As they were too small in groups, system differed from group (society) to group. In order to initiate members to worship the system, an idol was formed that harmonized the ideology. Rituals were essential part that to be carried in occasions for rejuvenation. During this period their rituals were for natural resources like sun, moon, river, fire etc; spirits like group gods and character idols like devil or angel.
As I feel, ritual is a practice to follow the ideology and its inscription, like those who have faith in bible inscription are Christian and who have faith in Quoran are Muslims and have faith in veda are hindus. So Christianity is the system (religion) and Christians are society, bible is inscription and Jesus Christ is icon. A difference of opinion in society split up from Jews to Christianity or branches like Roman Catholic, Protestants, Orthodox Christians, Pentecostal or others.
So religion is a system of belief in society. A ritual is main part of religion that builds citizens of the society to trust, respect the ideology of the society. Each religion has its own inscription for its group. When number of followers grew and opted to join the group that resulted to expansion of particular religion. On the other hand in many cases conversion method by force or temptation was/ is also adopted to expand its wings
The world of religion is a confusing one. I've been there, got the T shirt, etc.
I'm 67 years old, earned my BA degree in 1959, the MDiv in theology and Biblical languages in 1963, and the DC degree in Chiropractic in 1974.
I entered the religious jungle as a pastor in 1963, but left that "calling" in 1967. It made no sense as I experienced the task of trying to lead people to what I thought the KJV taught was "truth." That, coupled with the questions and doubts I had since a child regarding what I had been taught in the fundamentalist dispensationalist Baptist tradition, led me to seek something that made more sense to me.
Leaving that, I studied drugless health care and worked as Chiropractor, musician, music instrument teacher, and home improvements contractor into the 80s.
It is apparent that religion stems from one's desire to look to someone or something above oneself as a final authority. This is wrong, because I believe we are the ones responsible for our actions and our destiny.
All of the religions seem to me to be a summation of different peoples' questions about life and death. These are tied together and become that peoples' compendium of myths and legends that then become their religion.
All believe theirs is the only right religion, and they are willing to risk their lives in defense of it. Does that make sense?
It makes no sense to me that a Creator would create a "good" creation, then allow it to fall apart and become one trail of blood and gore that this earth has experienced through all time. That is certainly one irresponsible creator!
Then when people don't live up to the standards, they are given asbestos bodies to burn eternally! Does that make sense?
Religion is certainly behind all the bloodshed going on right now, and we will be an Iraq here in America before too long.
I just read where Bush is to declare marshal law by November 1 to cancel the election. And he is a "good christian," right?
So we better take matters into our hands soon, be our own gods, if we are to bring freedom to this nation from the tyrants controlling us.
All I desire is liberty under Law, and noninterference from those who lust to rule the world, no matter what we think.
All religions are man made. Therefore they serve man. Yahweh is anti-religion. He doesn't require mindless rituals to gain favor. The word religion is not mentioned one time in the OT, and only in a derogatory manner in the NT 3 times. Religions such as Catholicism and Islam are spoken of in the Bible. Not in a good way either. Peaceseeker, you should be aware of "choice" with your background. This is why things are the way they are. To prove our love for Him we had to be given free choice. This doens't mean that Yahweh is irresponsible
A covenant is a word for relationship, and Christianity is just that- a relationship with the creator. Christ ian(one belonging to, one with). So Christian just means one with Christ. Since all religions are bad, it comes as no surprise that most wars are rooted there. Atheist regimes however have killed more than all religions combined. I know, some may say that is a religion also.
I think we all want the same things you do but reality is usually different from desires.
By saying religions are man made, you are saying that your faith in your God who you call Yahweh is man made...
Because if thier was not a religion called Judaism or christianity, you would'nt even know the name you call him....
It just amazes me how closed minded people can be, in order to make themsleves right they proclaim that religion is man made...
And you want to know why they do this... it is because they know that their religion has been corrupted... thus blame it on man.... which is correct, but don't say the essence of the religion was man made...
Why don't I say that religion is man made... Because I know for a fact that my faith has not been corrupted.... and I am talking the essence of my faith not what people do....
Because the documentation related to my faith is not corrupted and cannot be corrupted, thus my faiht will ner be corrupted...
Where as all other faiths documentation has been corrupted....
First hand information is always better then second hand information....
Would you wear someone elses worn out shoes???
Religion is culture. Culture is religion. They are completely interchangable. Religion affects and culture and culture affects relgion. Do you think American Protestantism even remotely resembles the original message that was spread through the Medditerranean region 2000 years ago?
"Judaism" and "Christianity" are simply words that describe a line of thought. How well would conversations flow if we had to distinguish between The-Pseudo-Religious-American-Nationalism-Christianity-Hybrid and the Good-News-And-Example-Of-Yeshua?
It's very aggravating.
But religion is sort of a transnational cultural identity. Nothing more. And sometimes it can take on a life of it's own, and get real ugly.
I agree Dekka.
And Raven......................Pa lease. First of all your "religion" only has religious overtones because Mo stole or bought scriptures of uninspired rabbinacle writings-Talmud. Some are exact word for word. That's called plagerism. Without the inclusion of Bible characters and stories, the Qur’an and Hadith would be very thin on spirituality. We would be left with little more than temper tantrums, threats, and terror. No one would confuse it for a religion. Secondly, Allah says it was done in arabic, even though it wasn't invented yet. Oops. Third, the book has no context or chronology. Therefore it can not be understood without Ishaq, Tabari and the Hadith. Is this how the god that created the universe set it up? Fourth, it HAS been changed. Stand by and I will show you proof. Why? I don't know. You will only say it hasn't been changed and it is a perfect book a week from now. Oh well. I will show every one else.
I hope this comes through. If not, it isn't too hard to find out the truth.....if you really want to know.
One can clearly see that the older text was written over with newer text. There goes that theory.
The oldest surviving Qur’an fragments were discovered by accident in 1972, during the restoration of the Great Mosque of Sana’a in Yemen. Workers found a paper grave between the mosque’s inner and outer roofs. While it looked to be an unappealing pile of old parchment in Arabic, fused together over the millennia, and gnawed at by rats and insects, it was really a stash containing Qur’ans. Seven years later, the curator of the mosque managed to interest a German scholar in the discovery. The best investigative study of the Sana’a find was conducted by Toby Lester. Writing for the Atlantic Monthly, he reports: “Some of the parchment pages from the paper grave seem to date back to the eighth century, making them the oldest Qur’ans in existence. What’s more, some of these fragments reveal intriguing aberrations from the standard text—devastating in that Muslims are told that the Qur’an, as it has reached us today, is the perfect and unchanging Word of God—letter for letter how he wrote it.”
The first scholar to examine the Yemeni fragments was Gerd Puin, a specialist in Arabic calligraphy and Qur’anic paleography. His inspection revealed unconventional verse orderings, textual variations, and artistic embellishments. Scripture was written in a rare and early Hijaz Arabic script. And newer scripts were very clearly written over earlier, worn-out versions. Therefore, the text evolved. That should end that debate.
And for some reason this popped into my head also: You say that if the Quran is contradicted than whatever contradicts it must be wrong. You have said this over and over when you see Hadiths that you don't like. Well, why do Muslims choose to follow the Sunnah over the Qur'an when prostrating themselves? The Qur'an says that there should be three prayers but the Sunnah says five. Hmmm
please, for the sake of this thread, stop this right here. There are dozens of threads devoted to this: this is a more sociological thread let's not ruin it.
raven200 said this in post #4 : Do you realise what you are saying.....
By saying religions are man made, you are saying that your faith in your God who you call Yahweh is man made...
Religion is what men make so their idea of God could be seen and appreciated. However, God is Spirit and we should worship God in Spirit and in Truth.
God gave us life. There is really nothing we could offer God except fidelity to what he wishes us to become - better creatures. However, God's name is used in vain, and businesses are set up to sell the idea of God in the world for personal gain or for selfish ends. The business of God is called religion - and that is what makes religion man made.
I am not saying that religion is unimportant. Religion is an institution, just like schools are. But they can be misused and instead of making faithful followers of God, doing the divine Will, religious leaders act like angels - distorting the idea of God or His Will, so that they can politicize men to work against one other's interests instead.
There is only one God. All monotheistic religions should serve only God. How come they plot to eliminate one another? There is something wrong or amiss when this happens. The Devil is in control of even religion, don't you think so?
Nice art work DD its just a shame that.... whoever did it was'nt a good artist......
Anyway I must say that people accuse religion of crimes against humanity because thier are people who misuse religion to do so....
Thus that part of religion is man made.....
It's these very people that corrupt the religion and add thier own personal extra's that suit them, to make religion what they want religion to be.....
I am talking about the essence of religion.....
That is not man made, the original teachings and messages are not man made, not ever.....
It's when you see religious people making a mockery out of thier religion by being hypocrits, by saying something and doing something else behind the scenes....
This is when one should realise that they are mocking the religion.... Thus it is these people that should be blamed and not religion......
One can have his or her own personal faith always, but one can never create religions like Judaism, Christianity or Islam... Because these are the teachings on this planet that are closest to the original message sent to us by GOD.....
And this time with Islam God has sealed his teachings with the Holy Quran.... He has vowed to protect this book and will oneday help to bring out the complete truth via this book.....
Religion is a collective understanding of people of the same faith....
thus you are all part of a religion....
How ever much you deny it or refuse it.....
Also Tvee it's quite funny when you say thier is only one God and then you break that one God up into three Gods or two gods..
Two or three seperate entities.... Don't you realise when you say such things yourself that thier is ONLY one god and as the bible says itself a very Jelous god, then why would Our creator want himself to be broken up into three parts.....
Think about it..... I have to keep saying this to you, but I also know that you don't want to understand.....
First hand information is always better then second hand information....
Would you wear someone elses worn out shoes???
Last edited by raven200 on 09-08-2004 at 02:08 PM |
If Yahweh is antireligion and gave everyone "free choice," then that was a tragic blunder. And look at the tragic results.
Everybody chooses "religion" in one form or another. After a few years I realized the falsity of religion and abandoned it.
An all-knowing and all-powerful Yahweh would not create a "good creation" and then abandon it to the whims of sheeples' "free choice." The sheeple hardly ever stumble onto a choice that helps themselves or the rest of earth toward peace and family unity.
A PERFECT PARADISE?
Why have a perfect paradise, then have a tree of knowledge that all were forbidden to eat from (antiintellectualism)? Why have a "satan" there to ruin the future of the sheeple? Where did this terrible satan come from if all creation was "good"? Why have a dangerous "apple tree" there?!
The sheeple, if what you say is true, were destined to wander through life ignorant, helpless, always choosing things that would harm them, unable to triumph over things that ruin all family unity and peace.
It seems that people say things to "egg others on" to give their ideas so they can be attacked. Perhaps shills are placed on forums to bring out ideas and views which may be later used to cause trouble to dissenters. Remember, it was written that some will one day murder others, believing they are "doing God's service."
GOD CREATED THE IRAQI WAR
And remember that the Bush Administration was told by "God" to attack Iraq, using reasons which have been shown to be entirely false, empty of substance. The Neo-cons are very zealous Zionists, using Corporate US to aid them in their hateful war against Islam. And Yahweh or any "god" certainly doesn't need OIL!!!
Since when would a perfect Yahweh take sides in sheeples' "free choice wars"?
WHAT IS GOOD AND EVIL?
Why should Bush's "God" be considered bad, when you consider your "Yahweh" the good god? There's no such thing as good and evil. It's how people perceive and interpret events and ideas that they label as "good" or "evil."
And their "Faith" is a matter of how they look at life and the value they place on things and events. I have faith in myself to do certain things, but I have no basis for putting faith in anything or anyone else.
HOW DO YOU TREAT YOUR CHILDREN?
If Yahweh created a family, then he should have a strong parental love to always want the best for the family. He can't just give them "free will" and turn them loose to their whims and fancies. The "god" we've been taught about is very childish, effeminate, irresponsible, mentally deranged, double minded, and totally lacking in parenting skills.
Allowing that "perfect Paradise" we've been taught about to slip out of his control was the worst of disasters. The earth has seen nothing but troubles, family disunity, tax slavery, and senseless deaths all through its history.
It's time for people to realize their failings and exert their powers as gods to bring family unity and peace to earth. We don't have much time, particularly if Bush declares marshall law by November 1, 2004.
Peaceseeker said this in post #13 : If Yahweh is antireligion and gave everyone "free choice," then that was a tragic blunder. And look at the tragic results.
Everybody chooses "religion" in one form or another. After a few years I realized the falsity of religion and abandoned it.
you mean you chose a godless religion.
that's right.
it's still a religion.
but I suppose yours is the "Truth?"
An all-knowing and all-powerful Yahweh would not create a "good creation" and then abandon it to the whims of sheeples' "free choice." well obviously He would because He did. I'm interested, what makes you say an all-knowing and all-powerful god wouldn't do that? Maybe he/she/it knows something that you don't. The sheeple hardly ever stumble onto a choice that helps themselves or the rest of earth toward peace and family unity. There was peace for millions of years of human existence it's only the past 10,000 where problems have sprung up.
A PERFECT PARADISE?
Why have a perfect paradise, then have a tree of knowledge that all were forbidden to eat from (antiintellectualism)? Why have a "satan" there to ruin the future of the sheeple? Where did this terrible satan come from if all creation was "good"? Why have a dangerous "apple tree" there?! why the hell does everyone think it was an apple????!!!! man that bugs me. But I'll let it slide for now, for it is quite irrelevent
My question to you is are you asking these things as genuine questions? Did you abandon "religion" because you could not find an answer?
Or are you just being tongue-in-cheek?
Perhaps there is an answer to 'why'
PREMISES:
God is Good
God is Omniscient CONCLUSION:
God must have known man would sin if He gave them free choice.
I'm sure you are well acquainted with that logic. Oh but don't stop there
PREMISES:
God is Good
God knew man would sin if He gave them free choice. CONCLUSION:
Free choice must be good, or something unbelievable good came/will come out of free choice.
Have you thought about that? I guess not. But hey, you probably don't care. You already "know" don't you?
The sheeple, if what you say is true, were destined to wander through life ignorant, helpless, always choosing things that would harm them, unable to triumph over things that ruin all family unity and peace.
it does appear that way. But hey we did it for millions of years, some people still do it (though they are a dying breed), maybe we'll do it again.
It seems that people say things to "egg others on" to give their ideas so they can be attacked. Perhaps shills are placed on forums to bring out ideas and views which may be later used to cause trouble to dissenters. Remember, it was written that some will one day murder others, believing they are "doing God's service."
in the Quran, I haven't read this in the Bible can you please show me where it is?
GOD CREATED THE IRAQI WAR
this should be good
And remember that the Bush Administration was told by "God" to attack Iraq, using reasons which have been shown to be entirely false, empty of substance. The Neo-cons are very zealous Zionists, using Corporate US to aid them in their hateful war against Islam. And Yahweh or any "god" certainly doesn't need OIL!!! 100% agreed
Since when would a perfect Yahweh take sides in sheeples' "free choice wars"?
He doesn't, therefore the "God" that is "on their side" must not be Yahweh.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called the children of God
WHAT IS GOOD AND EVIL?
Why should Bush's "God" be considered bad, when you consider your "Yahweh" the good god? There's no such thing as good and evil. It's how people perceive and interpret events and ideas that they label as "good" or "evil."
Although it is important to understand how perceptions of "good" and "evil" can be rooted in culture and have nothing to do with absolute fact, I find it hard to swallow that there is absolutely no such thing as good and evil.
And their "Faith" is a matter of how they look at life and the value they place on things and events. I have faith in myself to do certain things, but I have no basis for putting faith in anything or anyone else.
that's okay it's your faith it's your life. I find it odd that you, of the billions of people on this planet, are the one person you can trust. It's self-delusion, not logic.
HOW DO YOU TREAT YOUR CHILDREN?
If Yahweh created a family, then he should have a strong parental love to always want the best for the family. He can't just give them "free will" and turn them loose to their whims and fancies. The "god" we've been taught about is very childish, effeminate, irresponsible, mentally deranged, double minded, and totally lacking in parenting skills.
or maybe you're a moron
(please don't think I'm hurling insult just to be an ass. I'm asking, have you genuinely asked yourself "am I a moron?")
PREMISES:
People, in general, are *#&$in stupid
You are a person CONCLUSION
In all likelihood, you are stupid
Anyway, if there is a god, he/she/it would obviously have a much bigger picture and know a lot more than you do. Maybe you think it's irresponsible, but maybe you're wrong.
Let me ask you, which bird will live to pass on it's genes?
The one who pampers its chicks til they get fat in the nest and die a pointless life?
Or the one who instinctively knows to push the chick at the proper time out of the nest, where the chick must either fly and become a True Bird, or hit the ground and die/get eaten?
questions to ask yourself.........
Allowing that "perfect Paradise" we've been taught about to slip out of his control was the worst of disasters. The earth has seen nothing but troubles, family disunity, tax slavery, and senseless deaths all through its history.
I think one thing many people fail to realize is that maybe Yahweh doesn't give a crap? I mean who do these bad choices hurt? THEY HURT US. The only thing that hurts Yahweh is emotionally. I mean what would you do if you came home and one of your sons had murdered the other?
Wait sorry. If one of your sons murdered the other, that's evidence that you don't exist.
Sorry for that little lapse in logic there.
It's time for people to realize their failings and exert their powers as gods to bring family unity and peace to earth. We don't have much time, particularly if Bush declares marshall law by November 1, 2004.
I don't know where you heard this but if he does this there's gonna be some ruckus.
09-01-2004 12:02 PM
man that bugs me. But I'll let it slide for now, for it is quite irrelevent
