I have some real questions so please nobody blast or insult me. I have not studied our foreign relations with North Korea to a huge extent and am trying to understand some things after the Iraqi situation has happened.
My knowledge on the subject is as follows (and bear with me as this is from memory):
1. Around 1994, we almost went to war with NK due to their plans to go nuclear. Clinton was waivering on negotiating or blowing them away which definately would have resulted in 100's of thousands of deaths. Carter went over for a little sight seeing visit to NK and met with Kim Jong Il and worked out an agreement that Clinton formalized as the Agreed Framework. This agreement required Kim to freeze his reactors in return for alternate fuel supplies as well as work with South Korea on peace negotiations
2. A lot of people bickered back and forth about whether the Agreed Framework agreement amounted to blackmail (Kim stating he wouldn't use the nukes if we did such and such).
3. This was the first agreement with outside nations that Korea agreed to.
4. During Clinton's administration, the US was slow in delivering the heavy fuel
5. Kim used this fact to restart his nuclear and missile programs. He launched a test missile basically to "show off" their capabilities. Even before the slow deliveries, he was producing, and exporting missiles to terrorist nations and he also never got anywhere in the peace negotiations with SK mandated by the agreement until the new guy (sorry, I don't know his name) came into power in South Korea and the new guy made the effort.
6. When Bush took over, he stopped all shipments of the heavy
fuels due to the fact that Kim was back in business with nukes and missiles which was in conflict with the agreement
7. Bush refuses to give in to Kim's demands for one on one talks between the two nations
8. Kim has always violated all standards of human rights
My questions are (and again, please don't bash, I am just trying to educate myself here):
1. Does the UN allow NK to have nuclear weapons?
2. I've heard that Kim really is actually "crazy" and only acts "normal" when he has been medicated. This was through interviews with high level NK defectors that I read years ago. Does anyone have anymore information on this?
3. Why did the missile launching (was it in 1997 or 98?) go unpunished?
4. Why does Bush insist on our nation not speaking with Kim's directly?
5. Where do you think this will end up?
6. Can you fill in the gaps in my knowledge above?
Thanks for listening to me and taking it a serious bid to learn more and not use it as a bid to just slam our government.
I think Bush was normal then he quit drinking and became the loon he is today!
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."— George Bush Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004
A lot of these questions it is not in my power or knowledge to answer. For instance, your question on why did the missile launch in 1997 go unpunished, I think I might have an answer for that question. Honestly, the men in Clinton's little circle did nothing about the launch or either it was or missile being launched and North Korea is taking the blame for it OR NOT. We know nothing, or rather I, know nothing about the North Korea, the true lifestyles of the people, the true interior life of the country. You have to remember that WE waged war in Korea in the early 1950s. (Marilyn Monroe entertained the troops by shaking her bad self and dancing life a lunatic)
Here's what Marilyn Monroe caused her mostly male audience to do:
Here's what Marilyn actually did:
Does this help?
'Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo'--H.G. Wells
War in the past was waged on ideologies. Rome for instance thought they were spreading civilization throughout the world by conquering nations and civilizing them. They also believed that their leader was divine, godly, celestial when in fact it was all about conquer and power.
Today, there are many ways to wage war but it all reverts back to conquer and power.
NK is difficult to say the least with many variables. At the end of the day you tally up and hope the pros outweigh the cons. NK doesn’t fit that mold. For one, an all out assault would undoubtedly affect SK just as warring with Iraq has done with Israel with SCUD missiles.
Despite all of Kim Jong’s rhetoric, he is really under control. Worthy of being watched but not a real threat in the way of military victory. His nation is depleted of resources and he could not sustain any lengthy offensives. What we saw in 98 was nothing but a fireworks show. However he could possibly do a great deal of short-term damage should his proclamations prove truthful.
NK has nothing to offer. It’s not a major player on the economic field and has nothing to offer. Our only concern is that we watch SK’s back. So why would we charge into NK or punish them and risk making it a volatile situation?
Iraq was a prime target. Easy to conquer and had much to offer by way of it’s resources with no real threat to us or our allies.
There’s more but that about sums it up. Don’t expect Bush to pressure NK. After weighing it in the balance, it’s not worth it at this point. That’s why he can simply ignore them however I don’t think that is the right approach. Bush did the same with the Palestinians only to have that issue come back and aggravate him in his agenda with Iraq.
We need to show some flexibility here and stop being so stringent. Who knows how NK would play out if we continue to ignore this instead of dealing with it now.
Governor Bush on Kosovo war exit strategy in 99 ” Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."
President Bush on Iraq war exit strategy from 2003 to 2008. “ “
In his autobiography I believe Clinton describes the situation in 1998 as one in which he was forced into accepting what Carter had arranged because Carter had made promises to NK or something to that effect. Don't know how accurate that is though.
hazel_dragoneye said this in post #3 : You have to remember that WE waged war in Korea in the early 1950s.
Well, the North declared war on the South and the US hopped in becuase they were SK's allies. Not so undignified.
Many of your questions could only be answered by government officials. I can only voice my opinions.
I think that many of NK's nuclear tests are going unpunished is either because the US/UN is scared of what they will do, becuase the US is being to leanient or because there is some kinds of conspiracy or secret intergovernmental deals. Too many reasons for a citizen like me to answer!
North Korea, the rogue state. Shall its rein end by bullets and mortar, rebellion or just that corrupt guy finally loses it. Hm...
04-12-2003 12:50 AM
