I am not saying we are in a computer program, but I am saying how do we know that our reality is real. I am taking a class in Philosohpy, and I am reading literature of past philosophers, and topic of the Matrix was brought up by the professor. The world a thousand years ago, or at least the perception of it turns out to be false.
When I hold up an apple, I know that you can not truly see the color of the apple, you can not taste, smell, or feel its texture, and when I drop it, it does not make a sound. In actuallity, the apple or anything else in the universe has no color. When light strikes an object, the object absorbs and reflects off the light waves. Light by the way is colorless. The light waves reflected goes into our eyes and is processed by cones and rod then intrepetted by our brain as being red. Color exist solely in us and not in the object. We live in a colorless, soundless, tasteless universe. Our senses lies to us. If our only connection to the world is through our senses, and our senses lies to us, then what do we really know for sure.
Our experience of the world is different for everyone. The color and clarity I see, sound I hear, taste, feel, smell is slightly different from your experience. Example. if I put two similar red color patch together and adjust one patch closer and closer to the other. There will be a point when some can still see two red color while some can no longer tell them apart, and for some they couldn't see the red in the first place. We experience the world in a place (taping my temple with my index finger) that has no door, no one can enter and no one can leave, it is a private experience for you and you only. It is a lonely place.
These are the facts and truth of our universe, whether you choose to believe or not. But let's take this to another level. If what we perceive is not really there, then how do we know something such as motion really exist. What about the way we perceive time. What if time and motion is all in our head. It seems the wool has been pulled over our eyes. But why?
We believed the truth to be different a thousand years ago, now we understand more as we move closer to the truth. Will we find what these philosophers have been searching for, even a tousand years from now. Assuming the human race last that long.
hmmm yes... these things have been discussed and pondered over, and over again for centuries. Not only by great philosophers, but every man and woman that have ever lived.
It is an amazing thing really... We know what time is, and we know what it means to us, but as the existence of the universe has no limit, there is no way our conscious minds can comprehend the significance a whole millennium or even a single second. There is no-way we can tell if what you think "feels" like an hour is the same as what "feels" like an hour to me.
All we can be sure of is that we exist, we can't be sure of how much of what we feel is actually "us", We can't even be sure that we as individuals are not alone!
Originally posted by Dekka00 Are you reading David Humes' "A Treatise on Human Nature?"
Yes you are.
No, just from discussion in class. I'm a science guy, and have studied about human senses and the way it works such as sight, color, smell, touch etc.... I have also wonder about life and the universe much like everyone else. But it wasn't this semester in Philosophy class that all these topic came together in such a way that make you doubt our reality even more. Maybe after finals I'll check out "A treatise on Human Nature" I've never heard of it thought, is it good reading?
Another good topic was the problem with Evil. If God (meaning the Christian God) is a good father, a perfectly good God, then where does evil come from? If it comes from the devil, then where does the devil come from? If everything came from God then is God the source of evil? If the devil is separate of God, two opposing forces, then is God not almighty?
If God is all knowing, almighty, and perfectly good. Then aleast one of these assumption is false, because evil exist.
Evil exist, God can stop it but doesn't because God doesn't know about it, then God isn't all knowing.
Evil exist, God knows about it, but can't stop it. Then God is not almighty
Evil exist, God knows of it, and doesn't not stop it, then God is not perfectly good.
If God is omnipotent and all knowing, then he must know what the future is going to be...and if he knows what the future is going to be...does that mean we have no free will?
The philosophers most directly relevant here are George Berkeley and René Descartes. They both concluded (through different ways) that the only certainty is to be found in the mental. Under Berkeley's idealism, everything that exists is mental. A *general* Berkeleyan interpretation of the trilogy is pretty straightforward (although, of course, the details are not): Everything is mental, even the 'real' world. Zion, the sentinels, the machines' world, the 'real' world, everything is as mental as it is in the matrix. In effect, Berkeley argued that we all of us are in something like the matrix, only that the 'architect' was (the Christian) God. Berkeley's position is also known as 'mentalistic monism', and its central motto is 'To be is to be perceived'. For all effects and purposes, under Berkeleyan idealism, all of us, and everything we see and perceive is just mental. There is no such thing as a mental-independent (or nonmental, or physical) reality. Regarding Descartes, his famous doubt led him to conclude that the only thing he could be absolutely sure about was that he was doubting (although remember Russell's criticism to Descartes' usage of the term 'I').
In Hinduism, there's a concept of Maya, which means illusion. It says that this whole universe is an illusion created by God, just to make us believe that He may not exist. Then, he sits back and evaluates us from Outside (the real world).
Maybe, the movie was His clue to get us to start thinking, then anaylsing and trying to find the Truth.
well the thought of the matrix is that nothing is real and if you are religious then you could consider non eof this real but just a place for your mind befor you go to heaven or hell.
I don't think we can ever know in a mathematical way the answers to all these questions. This is one of best themes of The Matrix, in my opinion. The Matrix, as a mathematical system, can never truly imitate the real world. People in it are without choice, as their whole world is based on equations.
Maybe it doesn't really matter that we can't know if what our senses tell us is real, because the real world can't be comprehended by science anyway. The fact is, as Neo says in Revolutions, it all comes down to choice.
Our inability to even be able to understand our world tells me that there must be something more. All a person can do is choose for themselves to believe that there is meaning of some kind to our lives and that the world as it is, is the inevitable and best way possible. This is the message I got from the Matrix, and is also the belief I hold.
the idea that there is no choice and that there is fate is very comforting... it's like i can't do anything wrong, and everything i do isn't really my choice but was already planned out... so it's not my fault
as long as you feel like you have a choice, i don't think it matters whether it's the truth or not. ignorance is bliss.
why would you give up the relative luxury in the matrix for the discomfort of the 'real world', for the sake of not being enslaved in something you didn't know about or didn't feel?
me and my friends like talking about how everyone sees things differently but i've never thought about it as colours and sounds are in us, not the object... good stuff
i don't believe in god or the devil, or heaven or hell or the like. people need to believe in these things for themselves, they need to have someone that's above them but in the third movie there was the talk of balance, maybe the devil equalises the equation with god
Evil exist, God can stop it but doesn't because God doesn't know about it, then God isn't all knowing.
TO HAVE FREE WILL we need a choice...........this is the choice..evil is needed for that choice.
quote:
Evil exist, God can stop it but doesn't because God doesn't know about it, then God isn't all knowing.
I think God does know about it.....if he is all knowing then he knows....when the time is right ......to remove it......do you think the world is ready for a perfect world.....noo because its not possible.....like in the Matrix......in the first film ...when agent smith talks to Morpheous....when everythings perfect Humans cant accept it....we need evil....
Evil has been created mainly by us Humans....we have chosen ......the devil is the promt....why do we feel guilty......because GOD has put something is us that....will nag.....and nag us......
jazzstock12- tecnicaly if we all have fate then we dont have choice because we always be following fate , there would be no way to change that cause even if you did that would have been your fate to change it so you cant excape.
murc13lago- God created lusafer even knowing that he would do evil but not in a way creating it. but gave him the opportunity to do it. so he didnt make evil just gave option to have it since there is no fate in heaven he had the choice to do it, God was giveing him the choice hopeing he would do the right thing. lusefer was created above other angels to have free will. and God is almighty cause he will in the end smite the devil, so there isnt to opposing forces just kinda like a fly on Gods sholder. and dont try the how can you believe stuff cause you dont see air but you believe it cause you breath it every day.
when the time is right ......to remove it......do you think the world is ready for a perfect world.....noo because its not possible.....like in the Matrix......in the first film ...when agent smith talks to Morpheous....when everythings perfect Humans cant accept it....we need evil....
if god hadn't made a devil in the first place we wouldn't need a right time to remove it or to be ready for a perfect world, we'd be living in one... we'd accept it because it would be the world we were born into
11-19-2003 05:23 AM
