Is taking a human life justified? Who decides wether or not a human being has the right to live?
Some say abortion is appropriate and justified in order to remove a child. Others call it murder and say it's no different then shooting someone on the street.
Anna Somebody is married to Joe Shmoe, they find out from the doctor that their son if/when born will have no use of his right arm be in constant yet mild pain and has about no chance of living past three.
Would it be murder to ease the already dead childs life by letting it go painlessly without regret?
Or should the child be born no matter what the conciquence and suffer for short span of his life?
I can't speak for anyone else... nor do I think that other people should either. It's a personal choice. I personally don't agree with abortion unless my life would be in danger. Other than that, if I've played the game and I got pregnant, than it's the price that I must pay. If I didn't want to be a mother, I would look into having the child adopted. I just could not, in good conscience, abort a living being that I have helped make.
:::>^..^<::: ~*~The Journey is more important than the end or the start~*~ :::>^..^<:::
Illuminate, you are missing the point.
What if i were to say "infanticide is a choice, if you are against it don't kill your infants." What would you say to that? You would have to explain how an infant is different from an unborn baby ... good luck.
4 years ago I had an abortion after becoming pregnant by an incredibly abusive man. Am I sorry I did it? Yes. Am I also grateful I did it? Yes. Abortion is an incredibly difficult decision to make and live with. Unless you have walked in those shoes or been in that situation, you really cannot understand fully what a woman goes through when making that decision. To call it murder or infantcide only pours salt on the wound. It is a personal choice and issue. I just hope no one on here ever has to face that decision and if you are, I hope you have the support of friends and family, and never have to deal with being called a "whore, slut, b!tch, murderer or sinner". Because God already knows how difficult the situation is for a woman.
Holy War....You're basically killing each other to see who's got the better imaginary friend. - Richard Jeni
Chelktty... I'm sorry to hear that you've been through that. I can't tell you that I know what that's like. I had a miscarriage, and that was extremely hard enough. Like I said, I just don't think that I could do it. But, every person has the right to the choice that they make regarding this. You are not a bad person... or any of those other things.
:::>^..^<::: ~*~The Journey is more important than the end or the start~*~ :::>^..^<:::
I'm sorry if my position makes you feel bad chelk, but people who contend that it's a choice and nothing more don't consider the child. I'm sure I can't relate with you on your situation, but i know that you can't relate with the child in his/her situation. Not only did he/she die a very gruesome death, but he/she had their 1 chance at life stolen from them. That child, that individual, will never come again. I'm not gonna sugar-coat anything here.
My uncle is sterile, and he and his wife tried to adopt for 20 years, but there just wasn't the opportunity. A lot of families faced with his situation adopt children from overseas, and this in a country that has millions of abortions a year.
I'm sorry for the pain you feel chelk, but i will not refrain from calling abortion murder when that is what it is.
Im not missing the point jrkiv.. I just dont agree with yours. The thing about the abortion issue is no one ever changes their minds. And Im assuming you are a man right? Men just have no business telling a woman what her choice should be, period. You cannot carry/conceive so leave it be. Your feelings and religious beliefs are your own, someone else has different ones. What men just dont get is that a WOMAN goes through the process, WE bring a child to life, WE consent to having a child in our womb, WE have to go through the birth process alone. Men just cant help in that department.
I personally believe that partial birth should not be allowed. If you cant make up your mind up early enough to bad...
As far as adoption goes, there are plenty of kids out there waiting to be adopted here in the US. Thats what tics me off about people going overseas. If they werent so focused on getting a white newborn child they could have a baby from the US. My aunt works as a social worker. She sees pleanty of minority children in the system waiting to be adopted. Its sad actually...
So by that token Jrk, if you had a family member or friend of yours that was beaten, raped and the result of that rape was a pregnancy, and to ensure that there was no demon seed or remnance of the evil person who committed that crime...that friend or family member had an abortion, you would look them in the eye and tell them its murder. Nice. I'm glad you are not in my support circle. Now go thump your bible, but unless you've never been there, you're ignorant to the circumstances of that difficult decision.
As for the unborn's life, I believe they do get a chance. I believe the soul goes on forever and that life recycles.
P.S. Thanks KJ for your respectful way of expressing your oppinion without coming off as fanatic and radical. I utterly respect your postings and your ability to to logically express yourself without purposely harming the feelings of others. You are empathetic and kind. Thanks again!
Holy War....You're basically killing each other to see who's got the better imaginary friend. - Richard Jeni
I see your point of view here illuminate, but let's try to focus on the objective right or wrong of the issue, instead of focusing on who is making what arguments. My gender here is immaterial, as is anything about me as a person, we're dealing with an issue here and arguments exist apart from the people who make them.
So for the sake of argument, would you have a problem with a man telling a woman not to steal? Do you have a problem with women telling men not to rape? I'm assuming not, because those things are wrong no matter what gender, race, person, etc is doing it. Would you consider the act of rape somebody's personal choice and nobody else can tell that person not to rape anybody? Of course not, that's riddiculous.
The argument that abortion is a choice and if you don't agree with it don't have one is just as ludicrous. Every time somebody makes that "choice," an innocent human being dies. I HAVE A RIGHT to do everything i can to not let that happen, just as i HAVE A RIGHT to tell people that they cannot rape anybody because it is wrong. There is absolutely no difference here.
Now, some would say that rape has a victim and abortion does not, but that becomes a different argument than the one you are making illuminate, and quite franky, that is the only direction you can take this debate. I just want you to realize that you're point of view in this matter has no foundation, it sounds more like you have some beef against religion rather than any real position on this issue.
Hey Chelk,
Thanks for showing your ignorance in this matter. At what point in this debate did i thump a bible? You're the one who advocates the killing of babies because of your religious belief that "lives get recycled." And what does the situation of how the pregnancy occurred have anything to do with the humanity of the baby in the womb? Are babies traditionally conceived human but rape babies are not? Just think about what you are saying here and try to have a little consistancy.
A baby that is the result of rape is now some sort of demon seed? Does it have horns and everything? Come on, it's an innocent child that deserves a shot at life just like anybody else, it doesn't matter who its father is. Now, you think i'm being terribly insensitive here, but just think about what you are advocating. Murdering a child conceived in rape is an acceptible way to do what? Get the rapist back? "you raped me, but i sliced up your baby in my womb?" The baby is guilty of NOTHING. For me to say abortion is permissible in this case would make me a hippocrite, i do not wish to join your ranks.
I'm truly sorry for any women who have been raped, but why is there this great outcry to add a second victim to the crime? Carry it to term and put it up for adoption, you'll never have to see it again. Or better yet, raise him/her up and love them so that they'll never committ the terrible crime that happened to you.
You're welcome, Chelktty. I see no reason, personally, to jump on someone for what they've gone through. Who knows, if that happened to me, I might be in your shoes, doing what you did. I just can't say, because I haven't experienced a pregnancy as the result of being raped. What you went through was very traumatic, and something that you can't understand unless you've been through it as well. That, unfortunately, is something that I have experienced. I'm just lucky that there was no pregnancy involved.
My thoughts on abortion aren't about religion or anything like that. Mine are just based on what I feel. My heart tells me that I couldn't do something like that. But, as I just said... until each person is faced with that decision, you just don't know WHAT you would do.
I do want to say to illuminate that it does NOT matter if you're a man or a woman. A man has just as much right to express his feelings over this. It does involve men too. Just because THEY don't get pregnant, carry the child, give birth, does not mean that they don't have a stake in this issue.
:::>^..^<::: ~*~The Journey is more important than the end or the start~*~ :::>^..^<:::
I have no beef with religion, I have beef with people thinking that because their religion says they are right, everyone else is wrong and going to hell.
If you have such a right (to stop women having abortions), what are you doing to help the thousands of children being abused and neglected? Are you taking care of them? Because you know whats going to happen if you make abortions illegal? Think about it.. Force a woman to have a child she doesnt want and the US will be filled with abused neglected poverty stricken children (like there isnt enough now)... Pro-lifers keep asking about that innocent life that was snuffed out, but what are they doing for the innocent lives LIVING in poverty, in an abusive home, or all the single parents not getting support like they should be? Are you doing anything to help THEM? When was the last time you fostered or adopted an unwanted child?
I feel strongly on this issue, and you have no basis for calling my BELIEFS unfounded and having no foundation. Thats YOUR feelings. Therefore you will not make me "see" things your way. Which is the whole point in me making the statment.. NO one really changes their mind on the abortion issue anyway. I have very valid reasons that abortion should remain a choice.
Oh, and as for me being a 'fanatic,' how is it fanatical to believe that abortion is wrong? Do you realize that over half the country agrees with me? Man, there are a lot of fanatics running around out there.
I will not carry the labels and slander that extreme liberals put on people who hold my position. If you disagree with me, then answer my arguments, don't slander.
There is also an emotional aspect to being raped her jrkiv that you are not even taking to consideration. To force a woman to expect to be reminded of being brutalized EVERY DAY by bringing to term a baby is just plain cruel.
10-19-2003 11:23 PM
