I wanted to start a post to get some views from people on how they feel about doctor assisted suicide. I'm have mixed feeling on the subject and was hoping maybe I can discuse it with some of you. So what do you think?
Ok since noone wants to start this off I will. The reason I ask is my mom works at a nursing home. I vist the people up there often. There was a lady there that had cancer, I'm not sure of exactly what kind but eventually her throat would close up and she'd choke to death. Now this could have happened anytime, 2 days 2 weeks 2 years noone knew for sure. But after talking with the doctors her husband gave the go ahead for them to pull her medicaton. They keep her in bed, with no food and no water. Basically they let her dehydrate and starve to death. It took her 13 days to die. Basically I believe it was murder. I woman wanted food, when they came in to feed her roommate she would ask for food and water. She couldn't take care of herself. They just decided to go ahead and end it now as opposed to later. So if they are gonna starve someone to death why not go ahead and just give her something to go to sleep and her no wake u p instead of going through all that pain? This kinda of thing happens all tha time. They did it to my grandmother. So what do you think?
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, diet coke in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
Inside me lives a skinny woman crying to get out. But I can usually shut her up with cookies.
A friend is someone who thinks you're a good egg, even though you're slightly cracked.
I think that is a horrible thing to happen to someone. The reason they decided to go was to end their suffering...not prolong it. 13 days!
The worst thing was that the woman was actually asking for food and water.
So sad.
From a Biblical view, God makes it perfectly clear that He alone has power to give life, and He alone has power to take it.
From a medical view, a doctor takes an oath to protect life in ALL CASES. A doctor starving a patient to death is not doing everything in his power to see that the patient is treated, and is therefore breaking his oath. His license should be stripped.
True, but this sort of thing happens all the time. The doctor wasn't breaking the law, its actually stardard practice. Espically after Hospice is call in. After that starts the Morphine and then its bacisally all over. They stop wanting food so your instructed not to even offer, thats what happened with my grandmother. But this lady wanted food. She asked for it, but they decided it was best to basically end it so they starve them to death. So which is better. Either way its killing someone, but which way do you think its more humane, starving to death or taking something where youll just go to sleep and not wake up? It's tough thats why this has troubled me so much.
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, diet coke in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
Inside me lives a skinny woman crying to get out. But I can usually shut her up with cookies.
A friend is someone who thinks you're a good egg, even though you're slightly cracked.
That is terrible. I agree, if someone is terminally ill and has the ability to make that decision that there needs to be something else. Starving an old woman is plain old SICK and disgusting. Someone ever starved my gramma there would be all sorts of hell to pay.
"So Many Men...So Few Can Afford Me"
"Coffee, Chocolate, Men... Some Things Are Just Better Richer"
Originally posted by Nymphadora Ok since noone wants to start this off I will. The reason I ask is my mom works at a nursing home. I vist the people up there often. There was a lady there that had cancer, I'm not sure of exactly what kind but eventually her throat would close up and she'd choke to death. Now this could have happened anytime, 2 days 2 weeks 2 years noone knew for sure. But after talking with the doctors her husband gave the go ahead for them to pull her medicaton. They keep her in bed, with no food and no water. Basically they let her dehydrate and starve to death. It took her 13 days to die. Basically I believe it was murder. I woman wanted food, when they came in to feed her roommate she would ask for food and water. She couldn't take care of herself. They just decided to go ahead and end it now as opposed to later. So if they are gonna starve someone to death why not go ahead and just give her something to go to sleep and her no wake u p instead of going through all that pain? This kinda of thing happens all tha time. They did it to my grandmother. So what do you think?
The third alternative is to remove all artificial means of keeping her alive, but continue with food, water, and pain relief--keep her as comfortable and as nurtured as possible. I don't believe a person has a moral obligation, in all instances, to preserve life through artificial means, not matter what. There does come a time to say, let the person die.
But, what disturbs me is that the husband seems to have made the decision without her input. Or, am I reading too much into Nymph's description? Just because she has cancer, does that mean she can't still make decisions for herself? Maybe she changed her mind. Maybe she realized dying that way was more horrible than she thought it would be. I think the husband was thinking more of himself than of his wife.
The least they could have done was to move her to a private room where she wouldn't be psychologically abused seeing other people get food and she was denied.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 (New Testament, King James version)
There was nothing artifical keeping her alive. She was old she had cancer, she couldn't speak but communicate with hand signals. Since she couldn't speak they ruled her incopitent. This gave her husband power of attorney over her. With comsulatation from the doctor the husband decided it was best to withhold meds, food , and water. I agree if they were going to do this they should have moved her to a private room. She would strain her neck looking at the other ladies food and grunt and cry pointing to her mouth. She knew she was hungry. Another bad thing about it is with new laws personal info and residents can't be posted, so they couldn't hang the usual sign up over the bed saying in code not to give food or water. So NA's filling in not knowing the situation would on occasion give her water which prolonged her suffering.
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, diet coke in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
Inside me lives a skinny woman crying to get out. But I can usually shut her up with cookies.
A friend is someone who thinks you're a good egg, even though you're slightly cracked.
Nymph, thanks for the added information. I just think it's cruel the way they treated her. Choking to death would have lasted a few minutes. Being starved to death lasted 13 days. And, during all of that time, she can't help but felt abused, unloved, and unwanted. The emotional impact must have been horrendous.
Just out of curiousity, how often did the husband visit during these 13 days? What did he do to comfort her? Did anybody comfort her?
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 (New Testament, King James version)
That is so horrible that they did this to the lady. She realized that she was hungry and thirsty. What a horrible way to die. Im curious as well, as to how many times the husband came to visit.
I mean, if she were in a coma and did not realize what was happening, mabye it wouldn't be so horriffic. But to see an elderly lady ASK for food and water and not give it is just plain cruel (that and the fact she was in a room with someone that was being fed).
I'm sure the lady did feel horrible. And they didn't even know how long she had she could have still been alive for years. The husband did visit pretty much every day. She also had some other family members visit towatd the end. They left very upset with the staff saying why doesn't someone feed her, she needs someone to feed her. The staff couldn't tell them anything because of new laws so apperantly the husband didn't explain to the entire family what was going on. Now I know it sounds like the husband was trying to off his wife. I personally don't think that was the case. Dealing with stuff like this is hard, and he was going on what the doctors and nurses felt was the best decision.
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, diet coke in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
Inside me lives a skinny woman crying to get out. But I can usually shut her up with cookies.
A friend is someone who thinks you're a good egg, even though you're slightly cracked.
In Oregon we have a law for Medically Assisted Suicide and I am in full support of it. But there are strict rules regarding Death With Dignity, as it is sometimes called. The patient must be terminally ill, they must go through extensive therapy and must be cleared by their therapist with a clean bill of mental health so that the doctors and family know that the patient knows exactly what they are asking for, and the doctor can not be the one to administer the fatal dose of medication. The patient must sign forms stating that they know what they are doing and it must be their own hand that administers the fatal dose. They can take the dose at any time that they chose, and many just keep the medicine by their bed as a safety net to take when they are truly ready, if they ever end up taking it at all.
The law has been around for a few years and has been voted on and approved twice by Oregon voters, and very recently Bush tried to get the Supreme Court to get rid of the law but they voted to let us keep it.
"Man is a marvelous curiosity ... he thinks he is the Creator's pet ... he even believes the Creator loves him; has a passion for him; sits up nights to admire him; yes and watch over him and keep him out of trouble. He prays to him and thinks He listens. Isn't it a quaint idea." Mark Twain
I don't think this is as hot a topic in Europe as in the states, certainly in The Netherlands and Switzerland this is doctor assisted suicide is perfectly legal, it is pretty much like in Oregon.
what happend to this lady though is pretty bad, why was she not just given a fatal dose of morphine and it is over and done with.
10-07-2003 09:27 PM
