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jking4425


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post #31  quote:

Also, why does it appear that the flag is blowing in the wind, when there is no atmosphere, hence no air or wind on the moon,

Old Post 07-07-2003 10:45 AM
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jking4425


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Appollo 11 Moon Landing debunked post #32  quote:

Neil Armstrong dedicated the 'moon landing' to his next door neighbor from his childhood home, a Mr. Neuhummer. The reason for this is as follows: when Neil was a young boy he heard a disturbance and shouting coming from next door, "...oral sex!...I'll give you oral sex when there's a man on the moon."

Old Post 07-07-2003 10:59 AM
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post #33  quote:

LOL thats brilliant

Old Post 07-07-2003 03:06 PM
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Cool Re: Appollo 11 Moon Landing debunked post #34  quote:

quote:
Originally posted by jking4425
Neil Armstrong dedicated the 'moon landing' to his next door neighbor from his childhood home, a Mr. Neuhummer. The reason for this is as follows: when Neil was a young boy he heard a disturbance and shouting coming from next door, "...oral sex!...I'll give you oral sex when there's a man on the moon."


Any update on the Neuhummers?


Old Post 07-07-2003 04:51 PM
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jking4425


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Re: Re: Appollo 11 Moon Landing debunked post #35  quote:

quote:
Originally posted by bitwiz44


Any update on the Neuhummers?


Mr. Neuhummer is working feverishly to debunk the Apollo 11 hoaxers, Mrs. Neuhummer is trying to adjust to her new dentures.


Old Post 07-07-2003 06:02 PM
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post #36  quote:

It's interesting about the flag... I thought that there was no wind on the moon? The flag appears to be blowing in something............

Also, I can't see how that crater is big enough to account for the lunar landing. Unless, we consider that the downward effects of the retro-thrusters would've been dissipated much faster because of the fact that there is no atmosphere on the moon and therefore very low concentrations, if any, of gases that would blow like wind. The concentration of oxygen, nitrogen, helium, etc in the space we call air on earth, is partially why there is such large plumes of smoke coming from rockets and space shuttle launches on earth. If there isn't any atmosphere and no sustantial concentrations of gases that respond to force in a similar way to how they do on earth, then that could possibly explain why there is no crater as we would expect there to be one. But that would also bring up the question, how could they gauge the correct amount of force necessary to slow the Eagle sufficiently in order for it to land as softly as it apparently did? If there is no atmosphere, then the force required to slow the momentum of the Eagle would have to be greater than the force necessary to perform the same action here on earth. How could the calculations be so accurate? Were there many probes launched before the Lunar mission?

My biggest problem with the lunar mission is the fact that the shuttle would've had to have passed directly through the Van All belt, which is a region of super intense radiation, that should've fried everyone onboard the shuttle in no time. The shielding required for people to safely traverse that region of space isn't even around now, to my knowledge, and I sincerely doubt that it was around back then...

I'll continue reading now, past the first page...


Old Post 08-09-2003 01:12 AM
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post #37  quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Sierradaddy
It's interesting about the flag... I thought that there was no wind on the moon? The flag appears to be blowing in something............


there isn't.. keep reading back there in the thread

quote:

Also, I can't see how that crater is big enough to account for the lunar landing. Unless, we consider that the downward effects of the retro-thrusters would've been dissipated much faster because of the fact that there is no atmosphere on the moon and therefore very low concentrations, if any, of gases that would blow like wind. The concentration of oxygen, nitrogen, helium, etc in the space we call air on earth, is partially why there is such large plumes of smoke coming from rockets and space shuttle launches on earth.


Let me just stop you right there. First of all, those huge smoke clouds that you see coming from the shuttle launches on Earth are in fact, not smoke clouds at all. It's water vapor. What you don't see in the shuttle launches is that offscreen there is a HUGE water tower which, during the launch dumps vast volumes of water onto the pad to keep all the gear from incinerating in the extreme heat conditions. The water is immediately vaporized into billowing plumes that can be seen for miles off - there is no smoke whatsoever. Bear in mind that the liquid fuel rockets are based on a hydrogen/oxygen burn, the only by-product of which is, again, water - when was the last time hot water turned into any kind of "smoke" at all? It's pure condensation.

That aside, it should also be noted that the "crater" you're refering to is not created during the lunar lander's descent. The only thing the moon's surface reacts with is a surface layer of dust which blows away, and some of the finer material which burns in the heat leaving a few lightly scorched marks on the surface, but "crater"? no. All craters are created by space debris. The microatmosphere on the moon is not a significant enough presence to transmit any of the retrorocket forces away from the landing area itself and thus all the effects of landing are seen directly beneath the lander. As such, there is clearly plenty of dust on the surface remaining for the astronauts to clearly leave footprint impressions directly from the ladder of the lander itself.

quote:
But that would also bring up the question, how could they gauge the correct amount of force necessary to slow the Eagle sufficiently in order for it to land as softly as it apparently did? If there is no atmosphere, then the force required to slow the momentum of the Eagle would have to be greater than the force necessary to perform the same action here on earth. How could the calculations be so accurate?


Well.. it's elementary physics, really. We have been carefully observing the moon since 1610 (Galileo) and have, over the centuries, been able to formulate quite sophhisticated mathmatics pertaining to gravitation, massive bodies in motion, calculating the exact distance, angular velocity, etc etc - ultimately we knew exactly everything we needed to know down to the amount of thrust that would be required to land gently on the surface and lift off once again. Had we been inaccurate on ANY measurement, a trajectory, a velocity, a burn duration, the astronauts would all surely have perished on every mission.

quote:

My biggest problem with the lunar mission is the fact that the shuttle would've had to have passed directly through the Van All belt, which is a region of super intense radiation, that should've fried everyone onboard the shuttle in no time. The shielding required for people to safely traverse that region of space isn't even around now, to my knowledge, and I sincerely doubt that it was around back then...


I quote from this website, "The Apollo spacecraft passed through the Van Allen belt quite quickly, so that in the short time they were exposed, the astronauts did not receive a dose of radiation considered dangerous, at least not compared to the inevitable other risks in the mission."


Old Post 08-10-2003 08:51 AM
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post #38  quote:

Ok, I appreciate the answers. However, the site you linked only gives POSSIBLE answers, does it not?

Also, I didn't realize that the Van Allen Belt was only a layer of high-energy particles trapped by the magnetic field of the earth. I thought that it was more than that. Isn't it reasonable to assume that there quite likely is a massive amount of radiation that emanates outward in all directions from the sun? Also, is there a magnetic field on the moon, and would that magnetic field pose a health risk as well for a group of humans descending in a craft that had very little radiation shielding? Since the moon is reflective, how much of the light from the sun is absorbed, and how much is reflected? What about the Eagle and the space suits? How do they handle the intense heat of the direct light of the sun, when there is no atmosphere on the moon to reduce that heat? I think of the reflective properties of aluminum foil, and how I can grab that foil without getting burned after it has been in the oven for a while. But the food wrapped inside the foil (if it is wrapped) is cooked quite well, or if the food is just sitting on the foil, it still is cooked. If the astronauts are getting direct sunlight coming at them through no atmosphere, wouldn't that constitute a major problem, and couldn't the astronauts get cooked in their suits or in the Eagle? Even though the moon doesn't get hot at all (something like between 190 - 240 kelvin, which is at best -25 C), the light from the sun is hitting it directly, and anything that isn't reflective SHOULD still get cooked pretty bad after a short time, considering no atmosphere to diffuse the effects of the light?

I don't know, maybe I'm picking at straws here..... Fun anyways...


Old Post 08-11-2003 02:40 AM
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post #39  quote:

J.FK. was not killed! Elvis is still alive! The people that believe we did not go to the moon fall in the same catetory as those that believe this. You know, you can take any happening and disect it and make it seem anything you want it to be, but one who takes the true facts knows what is real or fiction.

Old Post 08-16-2003 12:33 AM
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post #40  quote:

brendy, who gave us the true facts regarding the moon missions? How do we know that all the information is true and correct? Why have there not been any further moon missions since the 60's? These are very real questions that people want answered. There is a great deal of difference between J.F.K's assassination (in broad daylight, and in clear view of lots of people), Elvis' death (who cares if there was a closed casket? The man is dead...), and the moon mission. The pictures don't add up, and the technology available at the time also makes me question what may have really happened.

Old Post 08-16-2003 01:18 AM
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post #41  quote:

just read the columbus site, right at the end, and decide which category you belong to...

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post #42  quote:

What a bunch of CORN POKES of course we landed on the damn moon. You can see where they shadow is hidden even in the very last picture you posted SO yea we did land on the moon ...Glad I could settle this for you NERD POKES

Old Post 08-28-2003 06:47 AM
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post #43  quote:



Ok, smartie-pants...

You're of course right. We have no right to ask questions when the evidence given to us isn't proper...

I suppose that you worked on the lunar landing mission at NASA in the sixties and you have insider information as to why the pictures have been retouched, or why there is a flag blowing in the wind of a windless moon... Once again, I use the emoticon:

Yes, Mr. Blonde (great name for you by the way, if I might make use of the stereotype...), we "Nerd pokes" are so thankful to you for settling this issue for us in your ever-so-charming and charismatic way. Since there's nothing more to talk about here, will you be leaving us now?


Last edited by Sierradaddy on 08-29-2003 at 12:13 AM |
Old Post 08-29-2003 12:10 AM
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post #44  quote:

hmmm - not sure about the photo BUT - my uncle assisted in take off, monitoring, computer systems, etc - (he also designed the protective shield that prevents pad burn up), Think i'm going to believe him over some picture.. since he worked for NASA at the time.

My cousin works there now - uncle got him the job and as soon as i finish my degree - i may get the hook up too


Old Post 08-29-2003 12:26 AM
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post #45  quote:

there is not much Gravity on the Moon its not flapping in the wind, but since there isn't enought gravity for the flag to lay down, it just looks that way...SHEESH out old are you Corn Pokes, have you taken Science yet...well when you do, hopefully your teacher is not a corn poke and will explain to you about the gravity on the moon...and in the 3rd pic of the american flag, the pole's shadow is hidden for a short distance, because the ground is uneven there so yea...its there and it is hidden from the eneven clumps of ground.

Old Post 08-29-2003 02:38 AM
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post #46  quote:

Wow...

So, the lesser gravity on the moon is what allows for the flag to appear to be blowing in the wind... Awesome answer........

The moon's gravitational pull is 1/6th of earth's. Take the weight of the flag supposedly planted on the lunar surface, and get another flag that weighs 1/6th of that flag. Hang it by it's length and width on one side, in a room that has practically no movement of air. Move around at 1/3 normal speed, and look at the flag. I'm just taking a wild, uneducated guess at this, but won't the flag hang STRAIGHT DOWN, with no ripples in it, or movement that resembles blowing in the wind? Oh, I don't know... Just seems ELEMENTARY to me... The flag will hang STRAIGHT DOWN, and not appear to be moving in the wind. No ripples...

It makes ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE that the moon has less gravity than earth. The objects on the moon would be subject to the gravitational pull of the moon AT ALL TIMES just like here on earth. The flag is an inanimate object with no moving power of it's own, so if it wasn't tethered to the flagpole, IT WOULD FALL STRAIGHT DOWN to the ground of the moon. There is no wind on the moon... There is MORE THAN ENOUGH GRAVITY on the moon to hold a flag in it's place, without any rippling effect showing in the flag. It would hang from the flagpole like a towel hangs still on a rack.

Did you ask in your last post if we (I) have taken science yet? I wonder, how well do you understand the force of gravity? Actually, I studied the law of gravity in PHYSICS class, but that's not really important, I suppose....

The questions we're asking in this thread ARE RELEVANT. If you don't see that, and choose to blindly accept what the government tells you without question, good for you. I hope that your notions of a perfectly honest U.S. government without any hidden agendae eventually become reality...


Old Post 08-29-2003 03:28 AM
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post #47  quote:

...........................

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Old Post 08-29-2003 03:47 AM
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post #48  quote:

"It makes ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE that the moon has less gravity than earth. The objects on the moon would be subject to the gravitational pull of the moon AT ALL TIMES just like here on earth. " Even flags that have wires in them that are made to keep sticking out...as the the ruffling in the middle they had to grab the flag and make it stuck out right...





Look hes grabbing it making it stand out..thats the way it stayed. What they just send people in space for no reason?? or are you guys gonna start doubting there is an outer space, or that we even send people to it????? This is rediculous whoever started this thread has to be some Bitter Russian that is pissed because we beat em to it and our flag is up there!!!


Last edited by Mr.Blonde on 08-29-2003 at 04:01 AM |
Old Post 08-29-2003 03:48 AM
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post #49  quote:

That's not the picture I'm referring to. Of course there's going to be movement if someone's holding it... By the way, I don't know if you've looked closely at the pictures, but the flagpole doesn't just stand straight up. There is a connecting rod at the top of it that is perpendicular to the pole in the ground. That rod goes through a special loop stitched into the flag FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE of holding the flag up right, due to the FACT that there is no wind on the moon to blow to flag away from the pole in ANY outward direction. That rod is why the flag is stretched out, not because the astronaut is supposedly holding it. The only reason the flag stayed outward is BECAUSE OF THE ROD running along the top of the flag.

Now, why add that rod if the EFFECTS OF GRAVITY on the moon aren't sufficient enough to cause the flag to fall down limp?

I'm not sure that you really understand how gravity works. If you studied gravity, you'll probably remember the feather in the vaccum experiment. That feather, when out in the open, falls slowly because of the effect of the air between the feather and the ground that it is falling to. Remove the air, and the feather FALLS LIKE A ROCK. When there is gravity pulling on objects with no resistance between it and the ground, they fall DOWN IMMEDIATELY, regardless of the power of the gravitational force. If there's a pull, and there's no resistance or not enough of a resisting force, then whatever the object is that is being pulled, will move in the direction of the pull quickly and directly. That's basic stuff. There's no wind resistance on the moon. There's no atmosphere on the moon. There's nothing, to my knowledge, that would cause a flag that is hanging by a solid rod above, and anchored on it's side by the flagpole, to ripple as if it were being blown by the wind when there is NO OTHER EFFECT working on that flag. I was referring to one of the pictures that show no one touching the flag or the flagpole. That picture shows a flag that is in quite a passionate movement, which should not be the case considering there is no wind on the moon, and nothing to resist the flag from falling right straight down towards the ground, as is the nature of things succumbing to the pull of any gravitational force.


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post #50  quote:

....have you seen this picture before Look they are obviously posing the flag. now if you take a piece of paper and roll it up and you let go of one end what happens????, now on the flip side if you make a crease in the paper at the end, what happens will that piece of paper straighten back out...now pur just another crease in the paper going the opposite direction you have a perminate zig zag look, now same difference with a flag with a Pipe cleaner like wire running throught the top. check this if you grab a piece of pizza what happens (giving that you grabbed it by the crust the tip will fall down, now if you fold the crust what will happen??? Same Difference in a wierd way, I cannot believe people doubt we landed on the moon????

Old Post 08-29-2003 04:26 AM
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post #51  quote:

as pointed out by the guy on the columbus site, it is difficult to perceive movement in a still photo! just read the site, he gives a very reasonable explanation there...

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post #52  quote:

Vlad, please give me the URL for the site. I'd like to check it out.

Blonde, please think about what you're saying. You're saying that the flag probably has creases in it. I crease isn't a RIPPLE. Flags (especially the American Flag that is supposed to be planted on the moon) are folded in a very specific manner. Take any flag folded in such a manner and lay it out on the floor. Or better yet, use the same type of hangman-like flagpole that is shown in the pictures and hang the flag on it. The flag will not appear to ripple in a room with relatively no movement of air. The rippling effect that flags make is caused by the movement of air over the surface of the flag. The reason why flags hang down when there is no wind (and no rod running along the top of a flag that is looped around it) is because of the pull of gravity on the flag. Knowing that gravity is present on the moon in 1/6th the measure present on earth, and that there is no atmosphere, therefore no wind present on the moon, whatever parts of the flag that are not being held in a specific place, should fall directly toward the ground at all times (because the pull of gravity on the flag is a constant effect) and not move until disturbed directly by a person or thing. While creases may be visible on the flag due to being folded (which is minimized by the manner in which such a flag would have been folded), I'm pretty certain that the creases would not look like ripples which are caused by wind on earth.

Vlad, I'd have to say that perceiving movement might be difficult, but not impossible. If there is movement apparent, there is usually a reason for it. Why would a flag being pulled straight down at all times by gravity on the moon, appear to have ripples in it that are non-uniform in appearance (meaning not caused by the folding of the flag), when there is no one near it and nothing in it's vicinity that should cause it to ripple? Logic would lead me to believe that it should not be probable for the flag to appear to be moving at all.

Still, I'd like to read the explanation given on the columbus site, so please post the url, or PM it to me.

Thanks!


Old Post 08-30-2003 12:22 AM
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post #53  quote:

http://www.bestofcolumbus.com/Braeunig/space/hoax.htm

there it is sierradaddy...enjoy :-)....very detailed


Old Post 08-30-2003 11:23 AM
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post #54  quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Sierradaddy
Wow...

So, the lesser gravity on the moon is what allows for the flag to appear to be blowing in the wind... Awesome answer.......


take a piece of paper and cumple it - it unfolds but not fully - the flag could be shaped like silly puddy in near 0 gravity and keep the same crumple without reshaping itself.


Old Post 08-31-2003 12:59 AM
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post #55  quote:

LOL - yo mr blonde i'm glad i'm not the only on that thinks like my post before this one. i did not read your post before posting what i stated. posted when i ran into the Sierradaddy post which was near the top. Didn't mean to copy cat

Old Post 08-31-2003 01:01 AM
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post #56  quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Sierradaddy
Vlad, please give me the URL for the site. I'd like to check it out.

Blonde, please think about what you're saying. You're saying that the flag probably has creases in it. I crease isn't a RIPPLE. Flags (especially the American Flag that is supposed to be planted on the moon) are folded in a very specific manner.




He said what i said and what i said came from someone who worked for NASA for 30 years - Plus, he is family.
I'm sure my uncle knows what he is talking about more then the people arguing here. I believe his remark about the paper example - i can make a ripple on a flag - lay it down and it stays without creasing. Very simple thing to do.


Old Post 08-31-2003 01:05 AM
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post #57  quote:

Okay - I spent about 30 minutes or more viewing each picture with the flag. In EVERY picture - the flag is stable and I can honestly say - its not moving. In each picture... it has the same cures "ripples" bending out from the section on the left of the stars to the point. ALSO - the point furthest to the left remains static through each picture. meaning that - if the flag was blowing - it would appear completely different in EACH picture and no two pictures from different angles could appear the same. We didn't have the technology for 3d graphics so the angles for the shots would not be possible to mimic.
plus, you can tell from the behind shot and the front shot that the bending remains constant...also with the angle shot - the easiest to notice is the curved under and over tip is constant and can be seen through the whole posted set of pictures (only looked at the first page) --- therefore i will repeat myself - if the flag was blowing or moving in any fashion - each picture would have a distinct change - dynamic change in the bend texture and there is none present that i can see.

Watch a flag blow - because i have never seen a flag affected by gravity look that bent - a blowing flag would have a tight look - not a floating look.


Old Post 08-31-2003 01:53 AM
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The answer to the problem post #58  quote:

Okay - ALL of us were incorrect about WHY the flag looks like it was waving --- read the caption below this picture to find out why it appears to be waving.


FOR PEOPLE WITH BAD EYE SITE
Just to clarify what the caption states "AN ASTRONAUT ON THE MOON. Edwin E. Aldrin, Jr., above, and Neil A. Armstrong landed on the moon on July 20,1969. the flag, which they left on the windless lunar surfce, was stiffened by a wire to give it the appearance of waving.


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spacedude2.jpg (87.7031 kb, 11 views)

Old Post 09-01-2003 06:38 PM
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post #59  quote:

Problem: The flag is stiffened by a wire along it's top. The wire is straight, not bent. The flag, even if the wire weren't straight, but bent, should still hang towards the ground at the bottom. But in the picutre you've provided, the bottom of the flag isn't hanging straight down.

You have to admit, there are only 2 ways that the flag could appear the way it does:

1. If it was being blown in the wind, which isn't possible on the moon.

2. If it wasn't really a fabric flag, but maybe a plastic flag or something that was RIGID and made to appear the way it does in an environment where gravity is 1/6th that of earth.

By the way, your paper analogy doesn't work, because the moon isn't 0 gravity. It has gravity that is sufficient enough to reshape something as light and non-rigid as flag fabric. So, even if the flag was crumpled up (which I sincerely doubt, seeing as how it was meant to be planted on the moon. It would've been ceremonially folded like they do in the military...), it would've hung much better than it appears to be, even on the moon. 16% of earth's gravity is still more than enough...


Old Post 09-02-2003 03:24 AM
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post #60  quote:

Hey i wasn't wrong I said it had a wire in it!!! and sierradaddy (sounds russian to me) we got there in 69 we did it..its okay comrad we are friends for now.

Old Post 09-02-2003 04:36 AM
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