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devildog
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post #61  quote:

Wow!!!

I was away for merely moments. I must have missed something. I will go back and read Kooka's post again but I thought he/she said they where writing a letter complaining about the way the radical judge behaved. I would throw him in jail if you ask me. Arnold is contemplating that very idea as we write. The judge broke the law people. What is wrong with voicing your opinion about it? How did it get parlayed into anything else?


Old Post 02-17-2004 08:15 PM
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Kookaburra
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post #62  quote:

Good point devil! But you'll find out that when you take a stand in INR AGAINST homosexuality, there are few that stick together in their views. It's like a mini-lobby group within INR .... kind of cute and I don't blame them for sticking together. We all need support now and then.

I'm use to being out on a limb and going against the majority, so this is nothing. Try going before the entire military and stand against them. Now that's a trip!


Old Post 02-17-2004 08:19 PM
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Jokers_Harley
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post #63  quote:

Chelktty and KJ

I, for one, have already started on my campaign to get same-sex marriages legalized............... So write the letters, make the calls and most importantly SPEAK OUT........don't let people like Kooka or Devil stop something that NEEDS to be done........it's about time America really becomes "the home of the free and the OPPRESSED" .............. it is embarrassing that close-minded people, your dear president included, are fighting something that is a GOD-GIVEN right...............we should all free to love, honor, cherish and MARRY that one person we love, be it a male or female........ who the hell is anyone of us to judge the other??

and Kooka before you jump into another sermon, spare me it please..................you religious people are the BIGGEST hypocrites in the planet........... isn't your god the one that says that we MUST LOVE ALL SINCE WE ARE ALL HIS CHILDREN?? Isn't "love thy neighbor" one of your commandment? Since when did that change or it is that this is only used when it is to YOUR advantage??? Haven't enough people been killed and still are being killed over religion............... isn't time that you guys learn to LOVE AND ACCEPT all...............isn't that the heaven your god intended on earth?? Just who the hell are you guys to tell me, or anyone else, that is is immoral?? Because it was written in a book, whom no one is sure is genuine??? Because unless you were there to witness it's creation you can't prove to me otherwise............. disregard that before I go further off topic!!!

And like KJ, I will write letters to the national networks to get those religious shows taken off regular programming since they go against MY beliefs and besides I find them annoying........... I don't go to church so why should "I" be bothered having to see them when I flick thru channels?? Why do I need to see a service on a sunday morning?? If you guys want them, then get a channel for it and subscribe as I have heard being mentioned here when it came to gay shows........ it is only FAIR........... and this is only the beginning.............

Hey let's also start the against shows only showing black people, or the ones for latinos...............hell the list can go on and on.................. do you see what this creates Kooka???

But I, for one, will NOT stand down from this fight, since it hits home where I am concerned and don't expect anyone else to............ it is time that EVERYONE here gets EQUAL rights....

See you in the ring,

Erika


Old Post 02-17-2004 08:24 PM
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Kookaburra
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post #64  quote:

Choose ye this day.....

Old Post 02-17-2004 08:27 PM
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Dekka00
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post #65  quote:

quote:
Dekka : The fact is, gay or straight, you can only get AIDS if you have sex/share needles/etc.


If you don't want to get AIDS, don't have sex with someone with AIDS.
If you don't want to get AIDS, don't share your junkie-needle with someone with AIDS.
etc. = anything else that could get you AIDS. Like make sure if you get a transfusion that the blood is tested, don't do the whole "Blood brothers" thing with someone with AIDS, blah blah etc.

The point is you're not going to get AIDS by standing in the same elevator as someone with AIDS. That's ridiculous to say that because gay people spread AIDS they affect you. Heterosexuals spread AIDS too, anyway.

Anyway, I'm with you and Kooka on this one, it's just that the arguments you were making were plain stupid. That's why I said something.

If it ever came down to a vote, I would vote that marriage is something between a man and woman. I don't think it's a matter of a "Right to be able to get married" but a matter of what I think a marriage should be. There's a lot of heterosexual marriages I disagree with too. Polygamy, eloping, people who have been going out for so long and figure that marriage should be the "next step" in their relationship, people who marry for money, people who marry too early, etc. etc. etc.

But hey, if I disagree with it, I'll just make sure that I don't do it. But if someone asks me my opinion, I'm going to give it. If they ask me to vote the way I feel about it (they won't, but let's say if they did) then I'm going to vote the way I feel about it. This is America.

But, sheesh, it's not the end of the world if homosexuals can get married.


Old Post 02-17-2004 08:28 PM
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Kookaburra
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post #66  quote:

Dekka, very well put. I think I will stand by how you are phrasing this. You actually said exactly how I am not able to come across... that is; this is how I feel, and since I feel this way, I will make sure I do not not do it. But since I'm registered to vote, I will vote exactly how I feel.

So, what Dekka said........ DITTO!


Old Post 02-17-2004 09:02 PM
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hatchjaw
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post #67  quote:

quote:
devildog said this in post #61 :
Wow!!!

I was away for merely moments. I must have missed something. I will go back and read Kooka's post again but I thought he/she said they where writing a letter complaining about the way the radical judge behaved. I would throw him in jail if you ask me. Arnold is contemplating that very idea as we write. The judge broke the law people. What is wrong with voicing your opinion about it? How did it get parlayed into anything else?


I don't think anyone has said it's wrong voicing your opinion about it. Quite the contrary. If you read KJ's reply to Kookaburra she said go ahead... fight for what you believe in and added that she will do the same thing herself. That's just voicing another opinion. Not to be confused with trying to silence anyone.

quote:
Kookaburra said this in post #62 :
Good point devil! But you'll find out that when you take a stand in INR AGAINST homosexuality, there are few that stick together in their views. It's like a mini-lobby group within INR .... kind of cute and I don't blame them for sticking together. We all need support now and then.

I'm use to being out on a limb and going against the majority, so this is nothing. Try going before the entire military and stand against them. Now that's a trip!


Mini-lobby? Sticking together? All I see is people with the same opinion on this subject. Since when is agreeing on a subject the same as sticking together? You know, the same thing could be said about you and everyone who agrees with you. Just cutely sticking together.

I don't think there's any need for you to feel like you are being out on a limb here going against the majority. This is a discussion board and people are discussing. People are voicing their opinions just like you. Nothing more. No-one is trying to take away your right to fight for what you believe in.


Old Post 02-17-2004 09:37 PM
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devildog
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post #68  quote:

quote:
hatchjaw said this in post #67 :


I don't think anyone has said it's wrong voicing your opinion about it. Quite the contrary. If you read KJ's reply to Kookaburra she said go ahead... fight for what you believe in and added that she will do the same thing herself. That's just voicing another opinion. Not to be confused with trying to silence anyone.




Yeah but then it turned to " I'm writing to TV networks because I don't like religious shows(7th heaven,Joan of arch...) on the tube etc. Why should we have to pay for a network to watch Gays on TV etc. You guys are trippin me out. Who said gays should have to pay for "gay" TV?? And who was it that claimed to be offended by said programs? Especially so much as to write to our legislators. And while I'm at it,who said that gay couples don't deserve the same rights as others? Keep in mind that being married is NOT a right. And where the hell are those lies?


Old Post 02-18-2004 12:35 AM
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Jokers_Harley
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post #69  quote:

Devil............... getting married is a right given to ANY heterosexual couple, is it not?? If you want to get married, then fill out necessary paperwork and have a nice life........... isn't that the way it works............ when you decided to marry your wife you had laws stating you could do so and helping you to assure of that........... don't tell me you weren't aware of that little fact???

Kooka is the person that mentioned writing to network stations to demand that certain shows be taken off regular programming........ because they wen't against her likes/taste/beliefs............ Kris simply stated that were that the case then shows like 7th heaven needed to get taken off as well................ I merely pointed out to Kooka the stupidity of such actions........ because in truth what would be next??

and you have stated time and time again that gay couples DON'T deserve the same rights/treatment as heterosexual couples.............. the fact that they can't show affection in front of you STATES it clearly, no matter what you say your standing point is................ you are a hypocrite.... simply put....... you say you have nothing against them, yet you sit here and tell us what they can and can't do........doesn't this mean that in fact you don't like them??? I have no problem with gays showing affection, to an extent........ but this applies for girl/boy couples as well.......... if you want to have a "heavy" make out session, no matter what your sexual preference is, then do it behind closed doors......... I don't need to partake of it!!

Erika


Old Post 02-18-2004 12:55 AM
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Jokers_Harley
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post #70  quote:

well time for me to go home...........see ya all tomorrow~~~

Old Post 02-18-2004 12:56 AM
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gaboman
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post #71  quote:

quote:
Kookaburra said this in post #53 :
To each their own crusade chelktty.
Does anyone actually understand what this saying is supposed to mean? I mean, sure, Kookaburra can write letter upon letter to courts and judges or whatever, but when it all comes down to it, if she wants to stop others from getting married (homosexuals, in this case) - then it's not really respecting the true meaning of the phrase is it? I mean, to each his own - if a homosexual choses to marry another homosexual (which would be case, I'm sure ) then, well, shouldn't that be their choice?


Old Post 02-18-2004 02:06 AM
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post #72  quote:

Wow...

Such passion over this issue, but I've seen that happen here before...
Do I even need to express my position on this? I don't think I do. I think that all my previous posts on this subject express that I have no malice towards anyone who is different than me, or practices lifestyles that I don't personally agree with.

But, to those who would just dismiss people who endeavor to model their lives after that which is presented in the bible, saying that they are a bunch of hypocrites... I gotta say, that's the same type of judging that you are saying the religious hypocrites are doing. There are people who really only want to do what they believe in their hearts is the RIGHT thing. It doesn't necessarily have to do with religion or even their upbringing.

Devildog stated that he has an issue with this because of the circumvention of democracy. Kooka has an issue with this because of her faith. Dekka has an issue with this because of his own values, but to him it's not that big of a deal. I don't think he's gonna lose any sleep over gays getting the laws changed to allow them to marry legally. I have an issue with this because of religious values as well.

It's so crazy that there should be such animocity over this issue. We're talking about basic human rights here. I don't honestly see why gays feel the need to marry, and seeing as how the marriages that are being performed aren't legal, I don't see how getting married will really make any difference personally. It's not like the certificate is recognized by law. In my opinion, all those couples who got married were suckered, at least for the time-being, out of their money and time. The license isn't legally recognized. Therefore, no real benefits. This sort of marriage could've been done by anyone, and the results would've been the exact same, wouldn't they? Personally, I don't really see the need for heterosexuals to marry either. At least not legally. A certificate doesn't mean a thing. A marriage is a God-sanctioned union, and BIBLICALLY it can only be sanctioned by God if it is between a man and a woman. That's straight out of the bible. I'm not sure what Gaboman (I believe it was him... No offense, gab...) was saying about God not wanting heterosexuals to get married... Maybe I didn't understand correctly, but was that what you were saying?

"Therefore a man shall leave his parents and cleave unto his wife, and they shall become one flesh" (don't think that's EXACT, but the gist is clear...). God approves of a man and a woman together, but only under clearly specified conditions. Sexual relationships should be developed AFTER the marriage commitment has been made by both the man and the woman. Adultery, fornication, polygamy... These are not God-sanctioned, from what I gather of the scriptures. Polygamy is society-sanctioned in some parts of the bible, and is mentioned because of the common practice of the time and how that aspect of the story relates to the message being delivered. That's my opinion, but it seems to make sense based on what I've studied.

In anycase, people will always do what they want. Eventually, gay marriages WILL be legalized, as will the use of Marijuana. These things are BOUND to happen, because society will grow to accept them as normal. That's what happens, and it seems strange to expect anything else. I'm not really looking forward to it so to speak, but I expect it to happen relatively soon. This issue isn't going away, and because I believe that christians should be IN the world, but not be OF the world, these issues aren't even going to be fought by me. All I do is voice my opinion, and leave things at that. If a vote comes up here in Canada, I'll vote against gay marriage, and any other issue that I personally disagree with. I'm sure that no one would fault me for doing that. It is, after all, what democracy is all about. Voicing opinions and making decisions through popular voting.


Old Post 02-18-2004 02:08 AM
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chelktty
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post #73  quote:

Dekka, again I have to tip my hat to you. Though we differ on a lot of issues, this one included, I have nothing but respect for your ability to express your thoughts and opinions with well devised wording so as to not ruffle feathers or disrespect the opinions of others. You're a prince!

Devil, I didn't want to devote my time at work to tracking some of your inaccuracies, but since you wer?n't satisfied with the snippet I provided earlier, here's a more detailed account of some of your comments derived from merely two of your posts on the subject of Gay marriage. Grab some popcorn and enjoy.

"The majority do not accept it." – Gay Marriage
(How do you know that the majority does not accept it? So far, at least among the population on this board, you’re opinion seems to be the one that’s out numbered. Wouldn’t you agree? Or do you wish to continue to lie about it?)
"Gays are not a group or minority.It is an alternative lifestyle. And that lifestyles costs us all."
(My being heterosexual doesn’t cost KJ any more than her being homosexual costs me. This is an inaccurate statement and in a sense, a LIE.)

"As you know a HIV infected puppet was introduced on sesame street in late 2002. They said it was "to get kids used to being around an HIV infected child and hoped it could remove the stigma associated with it." Remove the stigma? If a child is afraid to be around an infected person than that means he or she was properly educated."
(Wow, I guess it was HIV that killed Princess Di, not that car crash, considering she made it a point to shake hands and hug HIV infected patients in Africa while visiting hospitals hundreds of times. People with HIV do not pose an immediate risk to anyone unless they are gushing blood or contaminated body fluid. Hence your comment was inaccurate and indeed a LIE.)

"The audience of 3 or 5 yr olds were told a DEADLY lie."
(Your inaccuracies again)

"Breast cancer gets less than 200K a year but kills 40K plus a yr."
(Wow, where’d you pull that “fact” from? Another lie. There are literally thousands of Breast Cancer foundations that generate billions each year from donations. Yes the same can be said for other cancer, AIDS, heart disease, MS, etc. etc. You’re not providing fact, but fiction.)

"Children have less money for vaccines than these ingrates." (Where are the stats to back this claim up? Free vaccinations are offered and provided to communities all over the United States.)

"We are already spending 1 in every 4 dollars on a disease" – AIDS
(One in four dollars? Show me the stats on that. These are perpetual myths and lies that you’re bringing up to support an argument that was originally against Gay marriage. What does AIDS have to do with gay marriage? If two gay men who are HIV negative marry, how would they transmit the disease to each other or anyone else? It’s just another baseless “fact”.)

"My one and only lifelong best friend is gay"
(I can’t tell if you’re lying about this or not. But with your thoughts about gays being freaks, deviants & miscreants who shouldn’t have the same rights and privileges as heterosexual couples, I suspect that you might not be telling the truth with this comment. For certainly you might consider your gay companion a friend, but the feeling wouldn’t be mutual. BTW, what does your “friend” think of the issue of Gay Marriage, how does he/she feel about your thoughts on the subject?)

"I am just brutally(some times) honest. This would explain why my posts get so many panties in a bunch. You can't handle the truth."
(So far you have expressed nothing but opinion rather than “truth”. While those of us opposing your opinions have made it abundantly clear that we were speaking opinion, other than the times that we posted factual articles. But as you’ve already shown, you’re not interested in reading any of it.)

So Devil, I guess the whole point of it is, you’re not going to see my point of view and I don’t agree or understand yours. So let’s stop playing with each other on this subject & agree to STRONGLY disagree. Good luck with your mentality and I hope for yours and your children’s sake, they don’t turn out gay. I’ve said my piece.

Now Peace.



Old Post 02-18-2004 03:14 AM
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fuscia is Away
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post #74  quote:

The HIV Sesame Street Character was in Africa for their show. It was never in the United States. AIDS is a huge problem over there. With so many children having relatives with this disease, the choice to do this over there makes sense.

Old Post 02-18-2004 04:44 AM
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outsider
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post #75  quote:

Okay, I'm going to pull this thread back to Gay Marriage. The Mayor of San Francisco ordered the city clerks to issue marriage certificates to same-sex couples based on the California State Constitution, which states equal treatment for all Californians. That equal treatment in the California Constitution is in conflict with the man and a woman only marriage law.

So if you think that the mayor superseded his authority, it is only your opinion. He did what he believed to be a legally responsible anti-discriminatory act. We all will find out soon enough if the CA State courts agree.

I seriously believe that devildog is just in this thread to get our panties in a bunch (to paraphrase his words). I would not take anything he says seriously any longer. Anyone who wants to truly debate the gay marriage issue will actually debate. I doubt that devildog is here to debate. I personally try to read other people's posts and look at them from many different angles. I try very hard to be objective to the things others say. And then I make my decision as to what I have been presented with. devildog said we were posting opinions and not facts and chelktty actually posted evidence that the opposite was true.

devildog, thanks for your opinion. Most people that I have met who choose to vomit their toxic views all over society, refuse to back those views up with any fact. They constantly dodge the situation. That is when I know it's nothing but smoke and mirrors. You love to jump on us when we present the lies, but you refuse to back up your words. Slick baby, very slick. But I'm not buying it. I've been treated worse by better people than you.

Kooka, we have sparred on the boards many a time. You probably more than most here know my views. I only have one thing to say about your posts. You have used the phrase, in various forms, that you are against homosexuality but not the homosexual. I have heard that from many others. The translation really is; "who you love is a sickness, and when you change who you love, the religious community will love you, but NOT the way you are now." ---end

I was going to post that this was not a religious debate, or a general debate on homosexuality. Unfortunately, in America and most places on planet earth, any subject relating to Gays & Lesbians (like gay marriage), becomes a debate on whether it is okay for anyone to be gay, is it right or wrong, is it a biological thing or a learned thing, blah.. blah.. blah...

It is such a tired argument, all of the lame excuses why gays can't be allowed to do this or that etc., and who is the person, persons, or groups that are ALWAYS opposed to this? Religion. It always comes down to religion vs. gays. Religion has become the #1 enemy of gays & lesbians. That is what Anita Bryant wanted. She and many like her started the modern war. So I have only one thing to say to her and her minions. "Squeeze these!"

I find it very interesting that I have never met an atheist or an agnostic that had a problem with homosexuality. Why is it only the religious? Because the religious have decided for the rest of society what is right. It is their way or the highway. The truly pathetic part of the puzzle here is, the religious have way too many problems of their own to be pointing fingers.

It is exactly like Hitler wanting to create a "perfect" society of blond-haired blue-eyed individuals. All others would suffer genocide. Yet Hitler himself did not fit into his perfect society. Had he not been the leader of the witch hunt, he too would have befallen the same fate.

So the authoritarian religious society that wants to "purify" our world should really stop cheating on their spouses, avoiding taxes, hiring slave labor, and molesting children. Fix the problems you have in your own community before you launch the next witch hunt. For what you really fear are the imperfections you have inside of you, and hurting others will not fix what is damaged inside of you.

I cannot tell you how amazed I am that so many people are here in this thread defending a persons right to happiness. Straight, Gay and otherwise. Thank you for restoring my faith in humanity. I am glad to know you. May you breed more like yourselves.

There have been arguments here, and in other threads about how gay's are not really treated bad or discriminated against. My only response to that is... when you have healed from the physical bruises and the mental abuse from those that hate, when you find your friend dead from suicide, when you have had to clean the blood of yourself and your friends up from an attack that was unprovoked and senseless, that is when you will understand how pathetic your arguments are. When you have lived in my shoes...

Whenever you throw hate against the Gay & Lesbian community, you actually make us stronger. I am not sure if it is part of the deal we got when we got the gay gene, but that is how it works. We have learned to survive. And soon we will get to survive together as married couples. Maybe not today, maybe not next year, but we will.

And I know this because... I'm Gay.


Old Post 02-18-2004 07:13 AM
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gaboman
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post #76  quote:

*applauding outsider*

Old Post 02-18-2004 07:31 AM
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Lawless
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post #77  quote:

Oh yes... let me join in. *Standing ovation please*

That was, by far, one of the best posts I've ever read, Outsider.
I commend you, at the end there... for 'outing' yourself, to those that didn't already know.
You really put a lot of thought, and time, into that post.

Thank you, for the bottom of my heart, for so eloquently expressing my thoughts/views, when I could not.


Old Post 02-18-2004 07:34 AM
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outsider
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post #78  quote:

Happy to be of service, I'm really trying to wear out my keyboard.

--- bows--- ---slides crippled hands into warm water---


Old Post 02-18-2004 07:37 AM
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devildog
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post #79  quote:

quote:
Jokers_Harley said this in post #69 :
Devil............... getting married is a right given to ANY heterosexual couple, is it not?? If you want to get married, then fill out necessary paperwork and have a nice life........... isn't that the way it works............ when you decided to marry your wife you had laws stating you could do so and helping you to assure of that........... don't tell me you weren't aware of that little fact???

Erika




Wrong Erika. When I got a drivers license I had to fill out paper work also. Doesn't make it a "right". Nice try. I'll have to scan the bill of rights again,but I don't believe it is written ANYwhere that Marriage is a "right".

quote:
Kooka is the person that mentioned writing to network stations to demand that certain shows be taken off regular programming........ because they wen't against her likes/taste/beliefs............ Kris simply stated that were that the case then shows like 7th heaven needed to get taken off as well................ I merely pointed out to Kooka the stupidity of such actions........ because in truth what would be next??



Didn't see Kooka post such a thing but I will go back and try to find it. If they did(doubt it) then yes I agree....foolish.


quote:
and you have stated time and time again that gay couples DON'T deserve the same rights/treatment as heterosexual couples.............. the fact that they can't show affection in front of you STATES it clearly, no matter what you say your standing point is................ you are a hypocrite.... simply put....... you say you have nothing against them, yet you sit here and tell us what they can and can't do........doesn't this mean that in fact you don't like them??? I have no problem with gays showing affection, to an extent........ but this applies for girl/boy couples as well.......... if you want to have a "heavy" make out session, no matter what your sexual preference is, then do it behind closed doors......... I don't need to partake of it!!


Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh no I didn't. Prove it!!!!And as far as sucking face in public I agree with you on that matter. I don't want to see it. Hetero/homo I don't care.OK?Please show me where I've said anything different.


Old Post 02-18-2004 11:32 AM
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devildog
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post #80  quote:

quote:
chelktty said this in post #73 :
"The majority do not accept it." – Gay Marriage
(How do you know that the majority does not accept it?

Every poll I have ever seen. The latest reflects that 2 thirds do not agree with Gay marriage. Sorry but it is factual. Show me something that reflects differently.


"Gays are not a group or minority.It is an alternative lifestyle. And that lifestyles costs us all."
(My being heterosexual doesn’t cost KJ any more than her being homosexual costs me. This is an inaccurate statement and in a sense, a LIE.)

No its not. I gave all kinds of data to "prove" that it does costs us all. I will not re-list them. You saw them and choose to ignore it. Oh well.

"As you know a HIV infected puppet was introduced on sesame street in late 2002. They said it was "to get kids used to being around an HIV infected child and hoped it could remove the stigma associated with it." Remove the stigma? If a child is afraid to be around an infected person than that means he or she was properly educated."
(Wow, I guess it was HIV that killed Princess Di, not that car crash, considering she made it a point to shake hands and hug HIV infected patients in Africa while visiting hospitals hundreds of times. People with HIV do not pose an immediate risk to anyone unless they are gushing blood or contaminated body fluid. Hence your comment was inaccurate and indeed a LIE.)

So when an HIV infected child tells your child that "I can't make you sick" than he or she is factually correct? Like hell they are!!

"The audience of 3 or 5 yr olds were told a DEADLY lie."
(Your inaccuracies again)

Actually the audience is more like 3 to 7 years old. Is that the lie?

"Breast cancer gets less than 200K a year but kills 40K plus a yr."
(Wow, where’d you pull that “fact” from? Another lie. There are literally thousands of Breast Cancer foundations that generate billions each year from donations. Yes the same can be said for other cancer, AIDS, heart disease, MS, etc. etc. You’re not providing fact, but fiction.)

I supplied all that info!! It comes right from the CDC. Need I post it again??


"We are already spending 1 in every 4 dollars on a disease" – AIDS
(One in four dollars? Show me the stats on that. These are perpetual myths and lies that you’re bringing up to support an argument that was originally against Gay marriage. What does AIDS have to do with gay marriage? If two gay men who are HIV negative marry, how would they transmit the disease to each other or anyone else? It’s just another baseless “fact”.)

Again,I gave you the data. You can ignore it if you want. It was again from the CDC. Need a re-post?

"My one and only lifelong best friend is gay"
(I can’t tell if you’re lying about this or not. But with your thoughts about gays being freaks, deviants & miscreants who shouldn’t have the same rights and privileges as heterosexual couples, I suspect that you might not be telling the truth with this comment. For certainly you might consider your gay companion a friend, but the feeling wouldn’t be mutual. BTW, what does your “friend” think of the issue of Gay Marriage, how does he/she feel about your thoughts on the subject?)

Is this my "LIE".

]

So Devil, I guess the whole point of it is, you’re not going to see my point of view and I don’t agree or understand yours. So let’s stop playing with each other on this subject & agree to STRONGLY disagree. Good luck with your mentality and I hope for yours and your children’s sake, they don’t turn out gay. I’ve said my piece.

Now Peace.



The whole point is this Jack-ass,you called me a liar and have been unable to provide any proof of said claim. Who is the liar??


Old Post 02-18-2004 11:59 AM
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chelktty
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post #81  quote:

Outsider, that was probably the best post I've ever read on this board. I commend you for your excellent phrasing and bravery. BRAVO!

Devildog, I understand that perhaps your mother dropped you one too many times on your head as a child and maybe that's why you don't seem to grasp the fact that I called you out on the things that you said. If you read through it, you would know that your words are false. I find it utterly amusing that your retort for this is to call me a jack-ass. Very cute. Couldn't think of anything better?


Old Post 02-18-2004 02:36 PM
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Lawless
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post #82  quote:

quote:
Kookaburra said this in post #53 :
To each their own crusade chelktty. I intend to fight this every opportunity I get, and I expect all of you will too. I'm in the process of writing letters to the FCC also. I want homosexual shows and commercials removed from local stations. If people want to watch it, let them subscribe to the channels. As for local stations, they should be monitored.



quote:
KJ said this in post #56 :
So, you say that if we want shows, that we should have to subscribe and pay for them. Well, guess what... I'm going to push that ANY and every show that has even a mention of God should do the same.



quote:
chelktty said this in post #57 :
Well Kooka it's nice to see you exercising your right as an American to complain to advertisers and government officials. I think it's great that you have such passion about this, in fact you've inspired me!
I'm going to write to the networks too and demand that 7th Heaven and Joan of Arcadia be removed from network prime time television, because the Christian monopoly of network tv irritates me. Why aren't there Muslim shows or Jewish shows or Buddist shows? I also think that Sunday night's televised prayer shows and masses should be moved to the cable network too, if you want to play that game.


There you go, devil. As other's stated, Kooka is the one that inspired the whole thing about shows on tv. Don't blame me that I'm on some kick to rid God. I was trying to prove how idiotic this is. She said that if we want such shows, we should have to subscribe to them... to subscribe to cable channels, you have to pay for them. If I want HBO or Showtime, I must PAY for them.

So, what's next... shall we have all exercise shows moved to pay channels? I find looking at perfect bodies offensive, because it makes people who aren't like that have to strive for such?

How about the news? It shows such violence, etc... maybe you should have to PAY to view the news as well.


Old Post 02-18-2004 02:50 PM
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post #83  quote:

Oh, and Devil, just because it doesn't say the word "Right" to marriage... it is a right, a priveledge. You aren't denied it... therefore it's your right, if you so choose, to be married.

Old Post 02-18-2004 02:52 PM
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post #84  quote:

quote:
Kookaburra said this in post #53 :
To each their own crusade chelktty. I intend to fight this every opportunity I get, and I expect all of you will too. I'm in the process of writing letters to the FCC also. I want homosexual shows and commercials removed from local stations. If people want to watch it, let them subscribe to the channels. As for local stations, they should be monitored.

So, America wants God out of the public, it's time to fight back and start asking for offensive things to be removed.

I remained passive through the Judge Moore case, and I remained passive through the a lot of things. I fought back once the Super Bowl aired. I wrote letters to offensive advertisers, and two of them have sent me letters apologizing, and said they have removed the ads. They got other letters like mine.

I have just written to the mayor of San Francisco also... I've had it with being passive.



Kooka...

you have WAY too much times on your hands!

If you dont like what you see on TV...turn it off...its really easy to do.

You would write letters to the mayor of San Francisco in which you would want the equal rights of others taken away? Did you also write letters to Lyndon Johnson so that he wouldnt pass the Civil Rights Act too?

For some reason...I dont think God crowned you judge and jury. What right do you have to sit on judgments of others? You must find yourself one perfect person if you think you have the right to stand so high in judgment....

If you call this spreading the good word of God...youre not doing a very good job.....IMO


Old Post 02-18-2004 04:01 PM
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devildog
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post #85  quote:

Thanks KJ for posting that info I requested. I don't know the text of that post but like I said I do not agree with it. If something is offensive than one should voice that opinion,regardless of sexual orientation. To petition Rosie or Ellen(whoever) off the air simply because they are gay is lunacy.

Chelk says "If you read through it, you would know that your words are false". HUH?????

I did and found nothing please give me just one lie. Make it clear so even I can understand it. This is the last time I will request this info,as I know you can not provide it. Just been playing with you. Why can't you just admit that you were wrong????? Nothing I have said is inconsistent with ANY other post I've listed. I feel as if the proper character of members here have been outed.

And by the way, my mother HAS admitted that she dropped me on my head. I am currently involved in a petition to the prime directive for a release authorization of that knowledge you have about "us".

Mystic says"You would write letters to the mayor of San Francisco in which you would want the equal rights of others taken away"?

Keep in mind that it is ILLEGAL to do what he has done. Equal Rights-good lord.Taken away?? This would indicate that one once had them. What is so hard to figure out people? Put it to a vote!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! one,two or ten judges do not decide FOR us. They are not there to Make laws. They are there to interpret them. Can someone explain how I am a homophobe,decliner of rights, monger or whatever else has been asserted about me (or others)JUST because I believe in Democracy. Are we a nation of laws OR NOT???


Old Post 02-18-2004 04:34 PM
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post #86  quote:

quote:
outsider said this in post #75 :

I seriously believe that devildog is just in this thread to get our panties in a bunch (to paraphrase his words).



No I'm not. Next time just ask if you want to know.


I find it very interesting that I have never met an atheist or an agnostic that had a problem with homosexuality.

You have now.


devildog said we were posting opinions and not facts and chelktty actually posted evidence that the opposite was true.

Reeeeaaaally(Jim Carrey Voice)To my knowledge I am the only one who has Used the bill of rights to explain "rights". Ive stated that polls all over America feel a certain way. I have posted figures directly from the CDC. It is a fact that gay marriage is against the law. Fact that the Mayor is in direct violation of said California Laws. Yes I have also posted my opinion. I just can't remember one single "fact" posted by the other view. I will admit that I did NOT open up the links to read the fishwrap someone supplied but if there are "facts" in there please cut & paste. Everything else is OPINION. And NO lie has been established. So just how do you claim that "evidence that the opposite is true". No wonder why the Dems claim Bush is a liar
Can I assume most of you are Demo(n)crats?
That last question will tell a lot.


Old Post 02-18-2004 04:59 PM
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post #87  quote:

quote:
devildog said this in post #85 :
Keep in mind that it is ILLEGAL to do what he has done. Equal Rights-good lord.Taken away?? This would indicate that one once had them.


And they shouldnt??? It was once illegal for blacks to use the same water fountain as whites....STUPID...but they defied it and did it anyways..and lo and behold...they got the rights in which they were entitled...

gay marriage will be legalized...get used to it.




What is so hard to figure out people? Put it to a vote!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! one,two or ten judges do not decide FOR us. They are not there to Make laws. They are there to interpret them.

Yes, and he interpreted the law based on the equal protection clause: Newsom decided to lift the ban on the grounds that homosexuals have the right to wed under the state's equal protection clause.

Can someone explain how I am a homophobe,decliner of rights, monger or whatever else has been asserted about me (or others)JUST because I believe in Democracy. Are we a nation of laws OR NOT???

Yes...but as you said..the judge interpreted the law and this is how he sees it to be.

San Francisco city attorney, Therese Stewart, saying the mayor was "honoring the rule of law," under the state's equal protection clause, by giving gays and lesbians the same right as heterosexuals to marry.



Old Post 02-18-2004 05:20 PM
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post #88  quote:

Marriage shall be defined as a man and a woman. It is written in Law.If he interpreted that Gays can marry out of that than I say even more reason to remove this Judge immediately. His judgement is questionable ,to say the very least. And just foe comparison value. Do you guys remember that pilot that says onboard a flight " talk to the Christians around you...you may learn something...anyone not a Christain is crazy"? Well he should be removed also. Blacks had it bad back in the day as you have correctly pointed out. But then.... bills,admendments,and LAWS were passed. There is a process in this country. I don't think any one is claiming that unfair treatment to someone based solely on sexual preference is "right". Every sex,creed,color,race,gender etc. have been persecuted at one time or another,and it is and always be "unfair". It is up to the "people" to make our OPINIONS of these subjects worthless.

Old Post 02-18-2004 05:58 PM
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Jokers_Harley
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post #89  quote:

We are working on making that a law Devildog......... I applaud that judge for going against the "majority" and doing what he felt was the right "law"............ more power to him..... and hopefully there will be others like him...........

Old Post 02-18-2004 06:19 PM
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post #90  quote:

quote:
devildog said this in post #88 :
Marriage shall be defined as a man and a woman. It is written in Law.If he interpreted that Gays can marry out of that than I say even more reason to remove this Judge immediately. His judgement is questionable ,to say the very least. And just foe comparison value. Do you guys remember that pilot that says onboard a flight " talk to the Christians around you...you may learn something...anyone not a Christain is crazy"? Well he should be removed also. Blacks had it bad back in the day as you have correctly pointed out. But then.... bills,admendments,and LAWS were passed. There is a process in this country. I don't think any one is claiming that unfair treatment to someone based solely on sexual preference is "right". Every sex,creed,color,race,gender etc. have been persecuted at one time or another,and it is and always be "unfair". It is up to the "people" to make our OPINIONS of these subjects worthless.


Now wait a minute...you just refuted your entire last post.

You said judges are there to interpret the laws, and thats true...thats what they do.

He interpreted the equal protection clause and made it known that he is making sure everyones rights are protected...

now you say he should be thrown off the bench because he didnt interpret it the way you wanted?

Youve got to be kidding!


Old Post 02-18-2004 06:25 PM
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