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malcolm xx
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post #91  quote:

quote:
White Tiger said this in post #89 :


No. I brought up the SADC forr the sole reason of trying to prove to you that not every African country agreed with the way Mugabe was treating the White Farmers in Zimbabwe and thought that he was in the wrong forr doing so.

If the UK was illegally occupying Zimbabwe I would be against it but I have yet to find any information beyond the usual Mugabe ranting about a British occupation of Zimbabwe post 1980.



Britain's occupation of Zimbabwe post 1980? Is this how you see the Zimbabwe situation? You have let propagandist brainwash you into ignoring history so you cannot understand the root of the Zimbabwe "crisis".

1% of Brits (or descendants of Brits) owning 70% of Zimbabwe most fertile land is reason for Zimbabweans anger. The Zimbabwe government passing legislature ( Constitutional Amendment 17) to nationalize all land and the Cazetted Land ( Consequential Provisions) Act that gave British( and descendants) a grace period to relocate IS REASON why UK gov wants Mugagebe removed. This fact is pre 1980?


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malcolm xx
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post #92  quote:

quote:
lodgebo01 said this in post #90 :
Well you can't excatly hide an occupation because there would obviously be no point in having an occupation if people didn't know about it howevere it seems only Mugabe can see this occuaption if it does happen he must be able to proivde photo eveidence or something. Of course it is not happening it the typical Mugabe rant that he has had for years " I screwed up but I will blwm sombeody else" even most Zimbabweans are seeing through that arguement now.


None of us( including Mugagbe) were alive when Cecil Rhodes (British financier) company (British Africa Company invaded and stole land from Zimbabwe peple.


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post #93  quote:

And who owns the land now Zimbabweans or Brits? face it Muagbe got Zimbabwe in this mess and in the process proved that wethere you like it or not those white farmers were essential to Zimbabwe, fact is he keeps making mistakes and keeps trying to defelect attention by blaming countries who are not involved anymore and it's only the biggest idiots that buy his crap anymore.

Old Post 06-14-2008 12:39 PM
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malcolm xx
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post #94  quote:

quote:
lodgebo01 said this in post #93 :
And who owns the land now Zimbabweans or Brits? face it Muagbe got Zimbabwe in this mess and in the process proved that wethere you like it or not those white farmers were essential to Zimbabwe, fact is he keeps making mistakes and keeps trying to defelect attention by blaming countries who are not involved anymore and it's only the biggest idiots that buy his crap anymore.


Propaganda 101:

Ignoring history Lodgbo job is to twist any response on Zimbabwe to mention President Mugabe and to hold him responsible for Zimbabwe's situation(UK agenda).

Propagandist cannot debate facts , there only job is to continue to distort history until we eventually become brainwash of the truth. (White Tiger a victim)

If don't believe me? Look at his future responses.


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post #95  quote:

quote:
malcolm xx said this in post #94 :


Propaganda 101:

Ignoring history Lodgbo job is to twist any response on Zimbabwe to mention President Mugabe and to hold him responsible for Zimbabwe's situation(UK agenda).

Propagandist cannot debate facts , there only job is to continue to distort history until we eventually become brainwash of the truth. (White Tiger a victim)

If don't believe me? Look at his future responses.


I will say this one last time Malcolm.

STOP. THROWING. WILD. ACCUSATIONS. AROUND.

You claim I am a victim of propaganda and you have been influenced by it in no way whatsoever. That view which you have, where you are the sole person who see the truth and is never influenced by propaganda in anyway, is disputed by many people who have talked with you in the past. Many people who have discussed topics in the past with you hold your opinions to be very biased and heavilly influenced by anti-white/pro-black propaganda. You need only look at some of your old topics on this site to see this.

Again, in your last post, you have shot yourself in the foot. Your say that Propagandists cannot debate the facts and yet throughout this thread you have throw accusations left, right and centre, with little in the way of facts to back up your arguements and when somebody tries to debate the subject with you you either attempt to change the subject or accuse them of having worthless opinions of being totally wrong because they have been "influenced by propaganda".

You obviously have no capacity for intellectual debate beyond the desire to have everybody agree with your opinion.

I wash my hands of you.


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post #96  quote:

You know Malcolm you go on about propganda and all the usual BS but it was in this very thread a few weeks ago that I challenged you to furnish us with what you see as the facts about Mugabe and Zimbabwe and you declined in fact if you lookj back at this thread you have yeat to give us any facts that deal with the current situation all you have done is give us a history lesson and a poor one at that.

It is also worth notiong that the arguement Malcolm and Mugabe are using is the same arguement that many failing African states use to cover up weak governemnt, corrupt offcials and very poor use of thier resources if some of these African states want to join the rest of the world in the 21st century they have to start looking at home for thier failings not look to the past, ditch the old man leadership they have and learn from some of the more succesful African states. Mugabe is the worst leader in Africa but his style of government is by no means unique.


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malcolm xx
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post #97  quote:

quote:
White Tiger said this in post #95 :

.
I wash my hands of you.


1 down (Lodgebo) to go.


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post #98  quote:

quote:
lodgebo01 said this in post #96 : Mugabe is the worst leader in Africa but his style of government is by no means unique. [/B]



mugabe is worst leader (propaganda 101). Doing his job.


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post #99  quote:

Ok Malcolm you claim that is propaganda then you tell me who is doing a worse job leading an African country at this moment in time? If it's not propaganda you should be able to find somebody no problem.

Old Post 06-16-2008 01:45 PM
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Tsvangirai quits election race post #100  quote:

from www.bbc.co.uk:

Zimbabwe's opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai says he is pulling out of Friday's presidential run-off, handing victory to President Robert Mugabe.

Mr Tsvangirai said there was no point running when elections would not be free and fair and "the outcome is determined by... Mugabe himself".

He called on the global community to step in to prevent "genocide".

But the ruling Zanu-PF said Mr Tsvangirai had taken the decision to avoid "humiliation" in the poll.

The opposition decision came after its supporters, heading to a rally in the capital Harare, came under attack.

The opposition Movement for Democratic Change says at least 70 supporters have been killed and 200,000 forced from their homes by ruling party militias.

At a press conference in Harare on Sunday, Mr Tsvangirai said: "We in the MDC cannot ask them to cast their vote on 27 June, when that vote could cost them their lives."

"We have resolved that we will no longer participate in this violent, illegitimate sham of an election process."

"We will not play the game of Mugabe," he added.

He called on the United Nations, African Union and the southern African grouping SADC to intervene to prevent a "genocide" in Zimbabwe.

Zimbabwe's Information Minister Sikhanyiso Ndlovu told the BBC that Mr Tsvangirai pulled out the vote because he faced "humiliation and defeat" at the hands of President Mugabe, who he said would win "resoundingly".

"Unfortunately," he said, the opposition leader's decision was "depriving the people of Zimbabwe of a vote".

Rally blocked

BBC Africa analyst Martin Plaut says the key question now is what Thabo Mbeki, president of Zimbabwe's powerful neighbour South Africa, will do.

He is in the best position to step up the pressure on Mr Mugabe, since Zimbabwe is so economically dependent on South Africa, our analyst says.

South Africa immediately responded to the news by calling on the MDC to continue talks to try to find a political solution.

"We are very encouraged that Mr Tsvangirai, himself, says he is not closing the door completely on negotiations," said a spokesman for Mr Mbeki.

On Sunday, the MDC was due to stage a rally in Harare - the highlight of the campaign.

But supporters of Mr Mugabe's Zanu-PF occupied the stadium venue and roads leading up to it.

Witnesses reported seeing hundreds of youths around the venue wielding sticks, some chanting slogans, and others circling the stadium crammed onto the backs of trucks.

Some set upon opposition activists, leaving a number badly injured, the MDC said.

It said African election monitors were also chased away from the rally site.

The United States reacted to Sunday's developments by saying: "The government of Zimbabwe and its thugs must stop the violence now."

Beatings and arrests

The MDC says Mr Tsvangirai won the presidential election outright during the first round in March.

The government admits he won more votes than President Mugabe, but says he did not take enough to win outright.

But in recent weeks, as the run-off approached, the MDC said it had found campaigning near impossible.

Its members have been beaten, and its supporters evicted from their homes, forcing it to campaign in near secrecy.

Mr Tsvangirai was arrested several times, and the party's secretary general, Tendai Biti, has been held and charged with treason.

The BBC's Peter Biles, in Johannesburg, says Mr Mugabe has made clear he will never relinquish power, saying only God could remove him.

While Mr Tsvangirai's move will hand victory to Mr Mugabe, it is unclear whether the international community or election observers will confer any legitimacy on the process, our correspondent says.

Britain's Foreign Secretary David Miliband told the BBC: "Robert Mugabe has certainly not won the election, in fact the only people who can claim that are the opposition," which won the parliamentary vote in March.

Zimbabwean ministers said the run-off vote would go ahead, unless Mr Tsvangirai submitted a formal letter of withdrawal.

But Levy Mwanawasa, president of neighbouring Zambia, said the run-off should be postponed "to avert a catastrophe in the region".

He said Zimbabwe's economic collapse was affecting the whole region, and he called on SADC to take a similar stance.

"It's scandalous for SADC to remain silent on Zimbabwe," he said.

"What is happening in Zimbabwe is embarrassing to all of us."


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post #101  quote:

So now the questions is what to do with Zimbabwe because something has to be done. What is happening in Zimbabwe could realisticly erupt in to civil war and history also tells us that civil wars in Africa normally brings in other countries.

As it stands the UN US, UK and EU, Angola, Mozambique and South Africa ( they took thier time) have spoken out against Mugabe and the sham election with all the countries refusing to acknowledge him as the re elected leader.
The US and EU are working double time to make life difficult for Mugabe by enforcing tighter travel restricitons on himself his cronies and for the first time members of his family.
The German firm that assists in printing Zimbabwean notes has been ordered to stop by Angela Merkel and the EU will hold a meeting in the next few days to talk about embargos that will hurt Mugabe but not the people of Zimbabwe.
Also for the first time peacekeepers have been talked about, if violence erupts which is most likely an AU force with a UK led approach will move in.
A UN resolution will be drawn up in the next few days at the request of of the USA and Germany though the resolution will not include peacekeepers at this moment.
There will be an AU emergency meeting today ( wednesday) to discuss Africas sole response to the situation though with S Africa condeming the election as a sham it's more than likely that all the other states will toe the same line.
Also if the situation continues up until the G7 Meeting then Brown and Bush will invite African states again and convince them to take action against Mugabe through isolation.

All of the above has been put together very quickly since Tsvangari (spl) has had to live in the Dutch embassy and it would appear the world has been shocked into action and wish to isolate Mugabe from the world ( won't be hard he seems isolated from reality at the moment). I think the worldwide response should put to bed any ideas from some people that this is all about the UK and Zimbabwe this is pretty much a worldwide condemantion.

Finally China will be expected to make a response in the next few days either at the UN meeting or through state TV and radio. The Chinese response should be interesting after all only a few months back they tried and failed to ship weapons to Zimbabwe and also for a superpower china tends to keep out of non chinese issues but as they have a veto in the UN they will have to make thier attentions clear before the US put a resolution to the vote. but with the other 4 memebers guarnteed to vote in favour it's hard to see China saying no.

Of course we will have to wait and see if any of this works if not bloodshed could be the outcome and nobody wants any more bloodshed in Zimbabwe.


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post #102  quote:

It appears that the Queen has uni laterally ( ie without governemnt asking) stripped Robert Mugabe of his Knighthood. Don't think he will care that much but hey at least her Majesty has done the right thing maybe she right thing and put this cretin out of Zimbabwes misery.

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post #103  quote:

quote:
lodgebo01 said this in post #102 :
It appears that the Queen has uni laterally ( ie without governemnt asking) stripped Robert Mugabe of his Knighthood. Don't think he will care that much but hey at least her Majesty has done the right thing maybe she right thing and put this cretin out of Zimbabwes misery.
Understand ZimbabweUnderstand Zimbabwe


Elizabeth II stripped President Mugagbe of the British Knighthood because he dares disagrees with UK policy.

Mugabe,84 was made a Knight in 1994 by UK gov.

Knighthoods are given to non-Britons when they have make important contributions for British gov.


lf this is how Britain treats its Knights who disagree with there policy imagine...


www.presstv.com/pop/print.aspx?id=61480


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post #104  quote:

Malcolm do you understand Zimbabwe? because it really seems you have no idea about what the hell is going on.

As for the Queen well she stripped him of it because of his human rights abuses and disregard for the democratic process.

Also Malcolm let me ask you do you agree that the world neds to stan up and take action against a wicked regime that is harming the majority of the people?


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Archbishop Desmond Tutu post #105  quote:

from http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM...9eIC1eKg_Eup81Q

LONDON (AFP) ? There is "a very good argument" for sending an international force into Zimbabwe if diplomatic pressure fails to sweep away President Robert Mugabe, Archbishop Desmond Tutu said Sunday.

The Nobel Peace Prize laureate said the African Union could take a lead role in any such action, as he urged the bloc not to recognise Mugabe as Zimbabwe's head of state at its summit in Egypt this week.

"That crisis has to be resolved sooner rather than later and yes, I think that a very good argument can be made for having an international force to restore peace" under UN auspices, he said.

"I can't see why ... they would be chary and be too reluctant to intervene forcefully if need be," he said, responding to a question on BBC television on whether there should be military intervention.

Urging African leaders not to recognise Mugabe's re-election, Tutu said: "If you were to have a unanimous voice saying quite clearly to Mr Mugabe ... you are illegitimate and we will not recognise your administration in any shape or form, I think that that would be a very, very powerful signal and would really be able to strengthen the hand of the international community."

Mugabe, 84, is to be inaugurated Sunday after an run-off election in which he was the only candidate following the withdrawal of Morgan Tsvangirai of the Movement for Democratic Change because of violence against his supporters.

Also speaking on BBC television Sunday, the second most senior Anglican cleric in Britain, Archbishop of York John Sentamu, called for Britain to close its embassy in Harare.

Military intervention should not be ruled out, he added


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post #106  quote:

Military intervention will most definitley be considred at some point and I would be shocked if the EU and AU countries have not been quitely talking about it and I suppose it will be quitely talked over at the UN when the more sanctions are imposed on Zimbabwe in the coming weeks.

It will be interesting to see Mugabe being sworn in today because I would love to see the contrast from the last election, last time around Mugabe was surroned by his " friends" leaders or reps from every African state went to Zimbabwe to congratulate the continents hero this time around it will be only a few resp if any at all show up if Mugabe feels a little lonely on that stage he better get used to it because slowly but surely Zimbabwe is being isolated from the internaitonal community.

Also it has been reported that the UK and France this time will put pressure on South Africa to do more to damage Zimbabwe personally I think we should ofer incentives to South Africa to do the one thing that would really harm Mugabe, they cut off the power supply 95% of Zimbabwes power come from South Africa lets see how long the people can tolerate no lights, clean water all the things that Zimbabwe needs a regular power supply for.


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post #107  quote:

The German firm that is responsible for printing Zimbabwean money has offcially stopped supplying the country with currency due to " intense government pressure" apparently the CEO of the group stgated that they would have stopped supplying Zimbabwe by the end of the month but a request ( diplomatic word for order) from Angela Merkel brought the date forward.

Also the UN has not ruked our unilateral action according to the white house Press secretary Dana somebody though unilateral action at this moment more than likely means more sanctions.

In the UK Gordon Brown promised Zimbabweans that as soon as demiocratic elections were held Britain would be ready to send financial aid to rebuild the country and it's economy. While this happedn Mugabe told the west to go hang ( no doubt he has a rope)

Also the death of the Kenyan president today is another issue if a younger rep is apointed to the role then more likely than noit he will be like the younger African leaders who want Mugabe to act for the good of Zimbabwe it seems the younger leaders know more about history of what trouble in one African country can result in for neighbouring states shame the older leaders who lived through these problems have forgotten.


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Re: Archbishop Desmond Tutu post #108  quote:

quote:
White Tiger said this in post #105 :
from http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM...9eIC1eKg_Eup81Q

LONDON (AFP) ? There is "a veryhis supporters.



Military intervention should not be ruled out, he added



If someone told you to jump off the London Tower would you?

Tsvangirai called for a military intervention many times. He wrote column in British paper, The Guardian. He called for military force that should oversee "TRANSITION". ( Similar to return to Rhodesia plan, The TRANSITION Strategy )

We want to know what you think not Lodgebo, Tutu or Tsvangirai.

1% of Brits (and descendants ) occupied 70% of Zimbabwe's most fertile land. How would you feel if lodgebo owned 70% of your house to run a business? 1% of Russians took over 70% of England?


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post #109  quote:

He actually called called for an AU and UN contingent to oversee the election and an AU force to help with any expected violence AFTER Mugabe refused election watchers. So considering the AU didn't exsist when the Rhodesia plan was in place it's not the same in the least.



And I asked this befroe but I will ask again - Do you think it's right that the interantional community does all it can to remove a government that does nothing but harm and oppress the majority of it's population?


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Re: Re: Archbishop Desmond Tutu post #110  quote:

quote:
malcolm xx said this in post #108 :



If someone told you to jump off the London Tower would you?

Tsvangirai called for a military intervention many times. He wrote column in British paper, The Guardian. He called for military force that should oversee "TRANSITION". ( Similar to return to Rhodesia plan, The TRANSITION Strategy )

We want to know what you think not Lodgebo, Tutu or Tsvangirai.

1% of Brits (and descendants ) occupied 70% of Zimbabwe's most fertile land. How would you feel if lodgebo owned 70% of your house to run a business? 1% of Russians took over 70% of England?


I sense a deep hostility coming from you Malcolm. I meerly updated the thread with a recent article regarding the position that one of Africa's more famous and prominant sons was taking regarding this whole affair. There was nothing of my own personal views in that post at all.

My views have been repeatedly stated throughout the course of this thread but you refuse to accept them as my views or when you do you simply dissregard them as being worthless because your claim I have been "influenced by propaganda".

I washed my hands of you for that very reason.

And...er...by the way their is not such thing as the "London Tower". There is the "Tower of London" or the "London Bridge" but no "London Tower"


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Re: Re: Re: Archbishop Desmond Tutu post #111  quote:

[QUOTE]White Tiger said this in post #110 :
[B]

I sense a deep hostility coming from you Malcolm. I meerly updated the thread with a recent article regarding the position that one of Africa's more famous and prominant sons was taking regarding this whole affair. There was nothing of my own personal views in that post at all.

My views have been repeatedly stated throughout the course of this thread but you refuse to accept them as my views or when you do you simply dissregard them as being worthless because your claim I have been "influenced by propaganda".

What is your view on this fact you continue to avoid question?

1% of Britains ( and descedants) owned 70% of Zimbabwe most fertile land.

How did this happen? What is natural reaction aany human would have after there land was took? Do people have right to get their land back? ..


what did America do when Britain occupied her land? Does Zimbabwe have right to do the same? Don't avoid give us YOUR thoughts on subject.

]


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Re: Re: Re: Re: Archbishop Desmond Tutu post #112  quote:

quote:
malcolm xx said this in post #111 :
[QUOTE][i]
What is your view on this fact you continue to avoid question?

1% of Britains ( and descedants) owned 70% of Zimbabwe most fertile land.

How did this happen? What is natural reaction aany human would have after there land was took? Do people have right to get their land back? ..


what did America do when Britain occupied her land? Does Zimbabwe have right to do the same? Don't avoid give us YOUR thoughts on subject.


I will point out that first and foremost my main grievance with Mugabe is that he has driven his country into economic, financial and political ruin and refuses to try and sort it out but prefers to blame everyone else. His behavour regarding White Farmers is only a minor issue in the whole situation in Zimbabwe.

But to your demand for my thoughts on the white farmers. The key issue you seem unable to get your head around is this:

Regardless of color of skin or ancestry the 1% of White Farmers that owned 70% of land in Zimbabwe, a claim made only by the ZANU-PF and never confirmed by anyone else, were Zimbabweans. They born and raised and lived and worked in Zimbabwe. Many of them had never even left the country. They were citizens of Zimbabwe with as much right to own land as anyone else and looked to the president of that country to protect their rights just as much as he protected the rights of black citizens under his rule.

They were treated like scum by Robert Mugabe who brought in this law to forcibly remove White Farmer and replace them with Black Farmer for no other reason than that he didn't like them either for the color of their skin or for the fact that their ancestors came from Britain.

Yes it is true that these White Farmers inherited their land from hostile British settlers but that was well over 100 years ago. They were nothing more than farmers who contributed to the economy and agriculture in Zimbabwe. They didn't deserve to be thrown out of their homes just because Mugabe didn't like them.

Comparing Zimbabwe persecuting its own citizens to the American Colonist who rose up to throw out what they perceived to be an oppressive regime just shows you ignorance on the matter.

The situation in America in the 1700's had little to do with the occupations of land by the British over the Colonists but more about Taxation without representation (they would have paid the taxes if they had been represented in Parliament) and Parliaments refusal to allow the colonists to expand westward.

On the other hand the situation in Zimbabwe is has come about because President Mugabe is such an Anglo-phobe that he was willing to destroy the very infrastructure of his country to hurt descendant of British settlers who had done nothing to him but had spent their lives tending the land to produce food and helping the economy.

Britain has not been occupying Zimbabwe since, at most, 1980. The only contact Britain has had with Zimbabawe has been through the foreign office and through the Commonwealth. They is no evidence to support claim of British occupation of Zimbabwe post-1980 and there is no evidence to support claims of Britain trying to control Zimbabwe beyond 1980.

Your whole argument is based on Britain being and active dominating force in Zimbabwe after 1980 when Zimbabwe got its independence. The question really, if your version is true, is what makes Zimbabwe so special that out of all of the countries that used to belong to the British Empire why is it the only one British is still occupying or trying to dominate?


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post #113  quote:

yet more small attempts to alienate Zimbabwe this time in the sporting arena.
The Cricket world cup is due to be held in th UK in the coming months, so the governing body the ICC met to decide if Zimbabwe should be excluded from the competition the board did not agree that excluding Zimbabwe would be a worthwhile venture at this stage so technically they should have been allowed to play. However the Zimbabwe cricket team was forced to pull out when the UK government said that every member of the team will be refused entry visas .

I think pretty soon we will see FIFA come out with a notice of suspension of Zimbabawe for international competitive matches thats if Zimbabwe have a team at all.


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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Archbishop Desmond Tutu post #114  quote:

[QUOTE]White Tiger said this in post #112 :
[B]


Yes it is true that these White Farmers inherited their land from hostile British settlers but that was well over 100 years ago. They were nothing more than farmers who contributed to the economy and agriculture in Zimbabwe. QUOTE]

Your opinion is not complete .

How did less than 1% of the British settlers get land in Zimbabwe to be inherited? Was current Zimbabwe president involved? Are you saying we should ignore history?


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post #115  quote:

quote:
lodgebo01 said this in post #113 :
yet more small attempts to alienate Zimbabwe this time in the sporting arena.
The Cricket world cup is due to be held in th UK in the coming months, so the governing body the ICC met to decide if Zimbabwe should be excluded from the competition the board did not agree that excluding Zimbabwe would be a worthwhile venture at this stage so technically they should have been allowed to play. However the Zimbabwe cricket team was forced to pull out when the UK government said that every member of the team will be refused entry visas .

I think pretty soon we will see FIFA come out with a notice of suspension of Zimbabawe for international competitive matches thats if Zimbabwe have a team at all.


This will hurt only the minorities in Zimbabwe they make up Zimbabwe sports teams. Crikket is not a popular sport in Africa anyway.


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post #116  quote:

Well we hurt the minoroties is fine with me after all Muagbe is starving the majority. Regardless of the popularity of cricket in Africa ( personally I don't get cricket either) it's symbolic that as long as tyranny reigns in Zimbabwe then Zimbabwe will be isolated by the west.

Also the whiter farmers did not just contribute to the economy they WERE the economy, a little research will show there is a direct link between the removal of white farmers and the destruction of the economy.


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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Archbishop Desmond Tutu post #117  quote:

quote:
malcolm xx said this in post #114 :


Your opinion is not complete .

How did less than 1% of the British settlers get land in Zimbabwe to be inherited? Was current Zimbabwe president involved? Are you saying we should ignore history?


Are the ideas of Colonialism out of you ability to understand?

Colonists leave a country to settle in new lands. In these new lands they build houses, farms and industries in the hopes of building better lives for themselves in this new country. In the process of trying to achieve this the colonist will, more often than not, displace the indigenous people of the country that they have gone to and take their land for themselves.

Thus hostile British settlers...emphasis on hostile

After those settlers die their houses and farms and the land that they took go to their children, after the children it go to their childrens childern, etc etc.

When Britain pulled out of Africa and Zimbabwe formed from Rhodesia these house and farms and land had passed down the generation from those hostile British settlers to the white farmers that Mugabe persecuted. It is no more their fault that their ancestors were part of a hostile invasion of Zimbabwe than it is the fault of white American that their ancestors were part of a hostile invasion of American.

We have no control over what our ancestor did and persecuting descendants of those people achieves nothing.


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post #118  quote:

The G8 meeting has finally revealed the plans for Zimbabwe, it would appear that all 8 memebers have agreed to take action against individuals as opposed to the whole country. Mugabe and his family and 15 other members of the regime and thier families will have tougher travel bans which means that the only places they can freely travel will be inside Africa but that will be difficult as all of thier bank accounts will be frozen and they are to be banned from opening new accounts, making currency will be hard as no country will do it and sanctions will be more tougher than ever and finally sanctions for African countries that support Mugabe or these people or let them move around Africa unless on official AU business.

Some of this will be done in the next few weeks but some of the above as well as tougher sanctions will be in the UN blue resolution. The G8 members so far have got 4 of the 5 veto countries on board most importantly Russia. China is expected to follow sut after Hu Jintao speaks to Gordon Brown on the issue which most likley will be in a few hours when China and Japan are done discussing the status of some Asian islands.


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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Archbishop Desmond Tutu post #119  quote:

quote:
White Tiger said this in post #117 :


Are the ideas of Colonialism out of you ability to understand?

Colonists leave a country to settle in new lands. In these new lands they build houses, farms and industries in the hopes of building better lives for themselves in this new country. In the process of trying to achieve this the colonist will, more often than not, displace the indigenous people of the country that they have gone to and take their land for themselves.
When Britain pulled out of Africa and Zimbabwe formed from Rhodesia these house and farms and land had passed down the generation from those hostile British settlers to the white farmers that Mugabe persecuted. It is no more their fault that their ancestors were part of a hostile invasion of Zimbabwe than it is the fault of white American that their ancestors were part of a hostile invasion of American..



Britain displacing the indigenous people of their land. wHY? DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT MEAN?


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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Archbishop Desmond Tutu post #120  quote:

quote:
malcolm xx said this in post #119 :



Britain displacing the indigenous people of their land. wHY? DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT MEAN?


I shall reiterate for the slow minded and stubborn

Persecuting descendant for the crimes of their ancestors achieves nothing. Nothing No matter how much you may want to whine and complain about it.

Over the course of my discutions with you Malcolm, not only on this subject but others, I have found that you are either not prepared to or are incapable of understanding these things: colonialism...slavery...equality for all regardless of race, colour or ancestry...propaganda...racism against non-blacks...the ability of people to change...the difference between countries now and over 100 years ago.

No doubt you have displayed more unpreparedness or incapability to understand other subject with other people.

You are stubborn and unprepared to accept that your position on any subject might be wrong. In stead you seek to discredit people who dissagree with you without trying to debate facts. You ignore people when they answer your question and pick a tiny part of their answer to highlight so as to try and prove that they dont know what their talking about.

In short arguing with you takes up too much time and is, inevitably, not worth the trouble.


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