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lodgebo
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post #91  quote:

Yeah but I don't think this is the result of people putting things in his head more likely somebody telling him the truth about what is happening, like I said the guy is very poorly educated and probably does not understand lawyers and contracts etc etc and I think that somebody has sat him down and told him exactly what has happend in a language he can understand.

Old Post 10-26-2006 04:08 AM
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post #92  quote:

quote:
lodgebo said this in post #91 :
Yeah but I don't think this is the result of people putting things in his head more likely somebody telling him the truth about what is happening, like I said the guy is very poorly educated and probably does not understand lawyers and contracts etc etc and I think that somebody has sat him down and told him exactly what has happend in a language he can understand.


Okay...see I respect your assumptions....and that IS what this whole thing is...ASSUMPTIONS.

A point has been made here....people have made assumptions about this whole thing and then when others come in making assumptions opposite theirs, then a hand slap is in order.

Lets face it...you dont know anymore than I do. What you have just stated above is a complete guess. Maybe you are right...maybe you are wrong. Then again, maybe Im right....or maybe Im wrong as well.

You act as if poor people have these tremendous morals....some may...some dont. If you believe that just because he is uneducated and poor means he did not understand what he was dealing with....well, then I have a bridge. Look maybe he was clueless, then again, maybe he was not. BUT until you know...should you not give both the benefit of the doubt?

No...I guess you cannot do that because you are too busy allowing the newspapers to put things in your head. SEE...now we have proof of exactly how others can influence the minds of another.


Old Post 10-26-2006 04:27 AM
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post #93  quote:

Truth be told no one has seen his SAT scores, but I would wager he doesn't have any. It's not too far of a leap to say he's not really hip to the western world or has an education that scratches past the 5th grade.

-HECK!


Old Post 10-26-2006 06:45 AM
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post #94  quote:

quote:
mystic said this in post #88 :


How is the fact that by my saying that he may have changed his way of thinking by letting others get to him painting him in a bad light?

We all know it is his kid...but don't get mad at me. Im not the one who put him up for adoption and changed my mind.


Well you did compare him to people who have car accidents and are fine, and then change their mind when they realise they can sue the other driver. That's not painting anyone in a good light.

This Malawian guy could easily have been duped or confused. He's illiterate, uneducated, and poor. I'm not saying this is the case with the baby, but Madonna has proved throughout her life that - if she wants something - she goes for it and gets it.

Whichever way you look at it, the adoption has gone wrong. Maddona needs to do just one thing - sort it out with the father, not use the law to push him out of the way and get her own way. If she doesn't do this then the story is not going to go away, and this kid is going to be tainted all his life as the Malawian baby that was taken from his father, and no amout of PR exercises on Opera is going to change that fact.


Old Post 10-26-2006 09:43 AM
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post #95  quote:

quote:
mystic said this in post #92 :


Lets face it...you dont know anymore than I do. What you have just stated above is a complete guess. Maybe you are right...maybe you are wrong. Then again, maybe Im right....or maybe Im wrong as well.

Well I don't know much more I know a fair whack about Malawi and as for the rest I am just taking a guess but I think it's a fairer guess than thoise who think Madonna has doen nothing wrong in this case.

You act as if poor people have these tremendous morals....some may...some dont. If you believe that just because he is uneducated and poor means he did not understand what he was dealing with....well, then I have a bridge. Look maybe he was clueless, then again, maybe he was not. BUT until you know...should you not give both the benefit of the doubt?

Where do you get this idea that I think poor farmers are moral icons?I never said that it seems that is one of these assumptions you are so fond of.
If you think there is a question mark over the wethere or not the guy knew wgat he was getting into look at the facts. He can't read, he can't write , he has no education, he cannot speak English, he was delaing with lawyers who were acting for Madonna and you are saying that he might have understood exactly what he was doing and signing. In any western country this man would either be deemed unfit to enter a legal contract or would have had to get his own lawyer to go through it for him and in case you did not know Malawi is not exactly swimming with lawyers and even if it was it's not like a farmer could afford them. I would say based on the evidence ( an did if it goes to court which it may well do) this guy did not know what he was signing up for.


No...I guess you cannot do that because you are too busy allowing the newspapers to put things in your head. SEE...now we have proof of exactly how others can influence the minds of another.


On BS you think I let the papers lead me on this I have my own mind and I can make it up without the help of papers for example I found out that Malawi has no international adoption laws without the help of the papers and I found out that orphanages cannot afford lawyers so potential parents or agenices have to get thier own lawyers I did not need the papers for that I found out that Madonna should have been in Malawi for 12 - 18 months before being given the kid but that can be transferred to the parents home contry in special cases and I found that out without papers. So it's not like I am being led.


Old Post 10-26-2006 11:54 AM
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post #96  quote:

quote:
h@ts said this in post #94 :


Well you did compare him to people who have car accidents and are fine, and then change their mind when they realise they can sue the other driver. That's not painting anyone in a good light.

Ever heard of an analogy? Point is that people's minds change with the influence of others. If you missed that, then you are one who can be easily influenced.


This Malawian guy could easily have been duped or confused. He's illiterate, uneducated, and poor. I'm not saying this is the case with the baby, but Madonna has proved throughout her life that - if she wants something - she goes for it and gets it.

And so she gets what she wants....so what? Sounds as if you are angry about that. If you dont know the truth...why assume?

Whichever way you look at it, the adoption has gone wrong.

Says who? Who told you this "fact?"

Maddona needs to do just one thing - sort it out with the father, not use the law to push him out of the way and get her own way. If she doesn't do this then the story is not going to go away, and this kid is going to be tainted all his life as the Malawian baby that was taken from his father, and no amout of PR exercises on Opera is going to change that fact.

Again...when you know the truth...come tell me about it, but until then you are assuming you know...but based on what and who is beyond me.




Old Post 10-26-2006 11:22 PM
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post #97  quote:

quote:
lodgebo said this in post #95 :


On BS you think I let the papers lead me on this I have my own mind and I can make it up without the help of papers for example I found out that Malawi has no international adoption laws without the help of the papers and I found out that orphanages cannot afford lawyers so potential parents or agenices have to get thier own lawyers I did not need the papers for that I found out that Madonna should have been in Malawi for 12 - 18 months before being given the kid but that can be transferred to the parents home contry in special cases and I found that out without papers. So it's not like I am being led.


Yeah....I looked it up as well. So what? Things change. We have laws on adoption here as well...they dont always work that way. Any American knows this fact.

Anyhow if you look around you will notice that most of the places that tell of these laws say that this is what they know, but look at the fine print and you will most of the time find this:

The information in this flyer relating to the legal requirements of specific foreign countries is based on public sources and our current understanding. It does not necessarily reflect the actual state of the laws of a child?s country of birth and is provided for general information only.

These particular countries are not ones that people flock to in order to adopt children. Their laws are not known as well as China, Russia, Columbia, etc. as these are the places that most people go in order to adopt children overseas.


Old Post 10-26-2006 11:25 PM
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post #98  quote:

quote:
HECK! said this in post #93 :
Truth be told no one has seen his SAT scores, but I would wager he doesn't have any. It's not too far of a leap to say he's not really hip to the western world or has an education that scratches past the 5th grade.

-HECK!


I dont disagree with you...but look how many Cubans and Mexicans are uneducated...yet they know how the world works (why else would they be running to this country). I think its unfair to assume that this guy is so illiterate that he has no clue of the world outside his own house.


Old Post 10-26-2006 11:29 PM
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post #99  quote:

The thing is Mystic that there are NO laws for international adoption in Malawi so how can Madonna claim she acted within the legla framework where no such framework exsists?

Old Post 10-27-2006 12:37 AM
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post #100  quote:

quote:
lodgebo said this in post #99 :
The thing is Mystic that there are NO laws for international adoption in Malawi so how can Madonna claim she acted within the legla framework where no such framework exsists?


Then if there is no law for international adoption in that country how can you say she did NOT???

They are getting ready to change that law anyways from what they have said.

Personally, I cannot believe people are so up in arms over this. There are so many other things to do than to get pissed over a celeb adopting a kid.

Did you freak out when Jolie adopted two foreign kids. I mean heaven forbid that these kids live better lives.


Last edited by mystic on 10-27-2006 at 03:11 AM |
Old Post 10-27-2006 02:52 AM
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post #101  quote:

quote:
mystic: And so she gets what she wants....so what? Sounds as if you are angry about that. If you dont know the truth...why assume?


I'm not angry. I think she's foolish to think she can PR steamroller her way through this when the father of the child is saying what he's saying.

quote:
h@tsWhichever way you look at it, the adoption has gone wrong.

Says who? Who told you this "fact?"


We're talking legal v moral here. Legally she can probably ignore the babies father and get whatever she wants. Morally it would be reprehensible to go down this route. It's not like she doesn't have the time or the money to go see the father and sort it out with him.

quote:
Again...when you know the truth...come tell me about it, but until then you are assuming you know...but based on what and who is beyond me.


I am not assuming anything. The father said he didn't give his baby up for adoption, or he didn't understand what adoption meant. For Madonna to say he did is irrelevant. It's between Madonna and the child's father to clear up, not between Madonna and the US public via the the Oprah Winfrey show.


Old Post 10-27-2006 09:06 AM
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post #102  quote:

quote:
mystic said this in post #100 :
Personally, I cannot believe people are so up in arms over this. There are so many other things to do than to get pissed over a celeb adopting a kid.

Did you freak out when Jolie adopted two foreign kids. I mean heaven forbid that these kids live better lives.


And does the father of the child have any right to be "up in arms over this"? When Jolie adopted her babies were there parents involved saying they didn't agree to her adopting their children? It makes a huge difference.


Old Post 10-27-2006 09:10 AM
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post #103  quote:

Jolie is different. She at least abided by the laws of the country governing the adoption, including maintaining residence in said country for the predetermined amount of time. I think I posted that earlier.

Plus she's smokin hot. Just saying.

-HECK!


Old Post 10-27-2006 09:21 AM
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post #104  quote:

quote:
mystic said this in post #100 :


Then if there is no law for international adoption in that country how can you say she did NOT???

Well please expalion how you can claim to follow a leagal framework that does not even exsist? If she had any respect for the Malawian process she should have followed domestic rules for adoption. Did you hear about the British charity worker that moved from Scotland to Malawi for 2 years to adopt a 16 year old girl who wanted to go and was turned down don't you think that a little hyocritical by the malwian government maybe if this women had millions in the bank and high priced lawyers that girl would be in the UK now.

They are getting ready to change that law anyways from what they have said.

Yeah and I wonder why that might be.

Personally, I cannot believe people are so up in arms over this. There are so many other things to do than to get pissed over a celeb adopting a kid.

Well if there is so much else to do why do you keep replying and don't to feel like I am stopping you from doing other things.
Anyway it is not about a celeb it is about the way the kids was obatined there are gaps in what has happend, claim of the fathre being mislead and claims that her money got her an early ticket out of Malawi. If it was anybody I would like to know what happend.


Did you freak out when Jolie adopted two foreign kids. I mean heaven forbid that these kids live better lives.


Well like Heck said she followed the rules to the letter. Maybe you should ask yourself why people are Ok with what Jolie did and not with waht Madonna did, you may come to the conclusion we are all hyocrites butI assure it's not that.


Old Post 10-27-2006 01:56 PM
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post #105  quote:

quote:
lodgebo said this in post #104 :


Well like Heck said she followed the rules to the letter. Maybe you should ask yourself why people are Ok with what Jolie did and not with waht Madonna did, you may come to the conclusion we are all hyocrites butI assure it's not that.


My conclusion is to get over it for you really have no idea what the truth is...and until you know it for a fact, your words lack validity.


Old Post 10-27-2006 07:14 PM
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post #106  quote:

Oh and what your specialist knowledge is celebrity adoption right? face it you know no more than I do which means your words have about as much valadity as mine.

Old Post 10-27-2006 11:47 PM
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post #107  quote:

quote:
lodgebo said this in post #106 :
Oh and what your specialist knowledge is celebrity adoption right? face it you know no more than I do which means your words have about as much valadity as mine.


Yeah thanks...but I believe that I already made that point. If you check post #92....I stated that very fact.

Here Ill make it easier for you: I said: "Lets face it...you dont know anymore than I do. What you have just stated above is a complete guess. Maybe you are right...maybe you are wrong. Then again, maybe Im right....or maybe Im wrong as well."

Check it out yourself: http://www.inreview.com/showthread....=688#post677155

I appreciate you validating my point about this entire thing!


Old Post 10-28-2006 02:57 AM
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post #108  quote:

Madonna is a dumb (blankity blank) who should shut her talentless pie hole so the world can forget about her and her life. The fact this is being discussed makes me want to crap my pants to I smell better dookie pie.

-HECK!


Old Post 10-28-2006 11:40 AM
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post #109  quote:

quote:
HECK! said this in post #108 :
Madonna is a dumb (blankity blank) who should shut her talentless pie hole so the world can forget about her and her life. The fact this is being discussed makes me want to crap my pants to I smell better dookie pie.

-HECK!



I love when you do your drunk posting! Entertainment at it's finest!


Old Post 10-28-2006 03:10 PM
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post #110  quote:

[QUOTE]mystic said this in post #107 :
[B]

Yeah thanks...but I believe that I already made that point. If you check post #92....I stated that very fact.

Yes I know you made the point but I thought it best to remind you when you claimed my words were invalid and I had no idea what the truth was. So I just thought ?I would remind you that we are both in the same boat.

Anyway you never really gave a clear answer on why you think people reacted difrently to Jolie's adoption and Madonna's adoption.


Old Post 10-28-2006 07:00 PM
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post #111  quote:

quote:
lodgebo said this in post #110 :
[QUOTE]mystic said this in post #107 :
[B]

Yeah thanks...but I believe that I already made that point. If you check post #92....I stated that very fact.

Yes I know you made the point but I thought it best to remind you when you claimed my words were invalid and I had no idea what the truth was. So I just thought ?I would remind you that we are both in the same boat.

Anyway you never really gave a clear answer on why you think people reacted difrently to Jolie's adoption and Madonna's adoption.


I dont care why people reacted differently. I dont think this is huge news....I dont care when celebs adopt. I dont think this type of action is worth my anger, sadness, elation, etc. Its just not worth any emotion whatsoever. I have better things to get uptight about.

Anyhow..you did not need to remind me, after all, I remember what I said...why do you think I AGAIN said what I said.

Let me make it simple and to the point: I dont care and everything you say are pure assumptions at this time...plain and simple.


Old Post 10-28-2006 08:08 PM
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post #112  quote:

You know for someone who does not care you seem to be spending a lot of time arguing with me over the issue.

Old Post 10-28-2006 11:18 PM
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post #113  quote:

quote:
lodgebo said this in post #112 :
You know for someone who does not care you seem to be spending a lot of time arguing with me over the issue.


I cant help it. I guess I do have some emotion over it. I find it funny how upset people are getting over something when they dont even know the real truth.

How can any sane person not laugh over that!!

Here...thought for the day (Edgar Allen Poe):

"You are younger yet ... but the time will arrive when you will learn to judge for yourself.... Believe nothing you hear, and only one half that you see."


Old Post 10-29-2006 01:45 AM
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David's father: I'll never escape stigma of Madonna's AIDS 'lie' post #114  quote:




By STEPHEN BEVAN, Mail on Sunday

Last updated at 22:03pm on 28th October 2006


The father of Madonna's adopted orphan has dismissed as a lie the singer's claim on TV that his wife and other children died of AIDS.

Yohane Banda, 32, whose wife died aged 25 after giving birth to 13-month-old David, says he will now have to live with the stigma.

The African peasant farmer also denied the superstar's allegation that he had never visited his son at the orphanage, to which he was entrusted at the age of two weeks.

Speaking on the Oprah Winfrey Show last week, Madonna, 48, said when she met David at the orphanage in Malawi she was told his mother and three siblings had died of AIDS, while his father's whereabouts were unknown.

But Mr Banda, who lives in the village of Lipunga, close to the border with Zambia, said: "She never went for an HIV test and she died in Zambia at her parents' house, so how could anyone know if that is what she died of?"

The clinic she attended when she became ill during pregnancy had diagnosed anaemia, he added.

Later, when she was admitted to hospital in Malawi, he was told she had a physical condition that made childbirth very risky.

Mr Banda insisted he had two other children - not three as Madonna was told - one of whom had died of malaria, while the other died suddenly at 18 months from an unknown cause. Neither was HIV positive as far as he knew.

Mr Banda said he was worried that if people believed Madonna's claims, they would stigmatise him.

In the TV interview, Madonna said David had been abandoned by his family. "No one from his extended family had visited him since he arrived," she told Oprah. But Mr Banda insisted this was also "a lie", adding: "I visited David many times, too many to count."

The baby was also visited by his grandmother, while Mr Banda's brother, Profera, "saw him almost every day, sometimes twice a day".

Despite his anger at the slurs, Mr Banda refused to blame Madonna and instead accused the orphanage of giving her "false information".

However, an official at the Home of Hope Orphan Care Centre insisted: "We gave her no such information," and instead pointed the finger at Malawi's Ministry of Gender and Child Welfare.

Meanwhile, although David has been in the UK for less than two weeks, Madonna has introduced him to her Kabbalah faith.

The move is likely to upset Mr Banda, who was told his son was going to "a very nice Christian lady". Madonna took the toddler to the Friday night Shabat ceremony at the Central London Kabbalah Centre, and invited other children to "come and play with baby David".

The boy even wore the Kabbalah red string bracelet, believed by followers to ward off evil spirits.


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Old Post 10-29-2006 04:55 AM
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post #115  quote:

I have pretty much no interest in this news event, as I don't care for Madonna, and find the whole thing outside my range of things I spend time thinking about, but I posted the article above just so I could post that pic of Banda's hat with the paper clip on the front. It struck my funnybone.

Old Post 10-29-2006 05:03 AM
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post #116  quote:

quote:
Whidden said this in post #115 :
I have pretty much no interest in this news event, as I don't care for Madonna, and find the whole thing outside my range of things I spend time thinking about, but I posted the article above just so I could post that pic of Banda's hat with the paper clip on the front. It struck my funnybone.


Shh...Whidden. Don't let the press know about the paper clip, next thing you know it becomes a fashion trend.


Old Post 10-29-2006 05:24 AM
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post #117  quote:

Interesting article.

Its an amazing look into the countless amounts of people finger pointing. Go figure.


Old Post 10-29-2006 06:38 AM
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post #118  quote:

Well whether she intended to or not, Madonna's doing a great job of screwing this guy and his family over. She didn't bother finding out the stigma the guy's family may get stuck with over the AIDS remark she made on Oprah - totally insensitive and ignorant and which could have far greater consequences in Malawi than in the US or UK, she's accusing the guys family of abandoning his child, and she's already shoving Kabala down the babies throat, when the babies family are Christian.

It's now the orphanage that's getting blamed for lying. I guess you start wafting over a millions dollars around in such a poor part of the world, people will say anything you want to hear.


Old Post 10-29-2006 09:19 AM
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post #119  quote:

quote:
h@ts said this in post #118 :
Well whether she intended to or not, Madonna's doing a great job of screwing this guy and his family over. She didn't bother finding out the stigma the guy's family may get stuck with over the AIDS remark she made on Oprah - totally insensitive and ignorant and which could have far greater consequences in Malawi than in the US or UK, she's accusing the guys family of abandoning his child, and she's already shoving Kabala down the babies throat, when the babies family are Christian.

It's now the orphanage that's getting blamed for lying. I guess you start wafting over a millions dollars around in such a poor part of the world, people will say anything you want to hear.


First she did it intentionally...now she might be doing it unintentionally? Even when a story changes, you still place blame.

Amazing how much "information" you guys have when you have no information at all. Neat trick....but very oridinary.


Old Post 10-29-2006 04:34 PM
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post #120  quote:

quote:
mystic said this in post #119 :


First she did it intentionally...now she might be doing it unintentionally? Even when a story changes, you still place blame.

Amazing how much "information" you guys have when you have no information at all. Neat trick....but very oridinary.


I said regardless of her intention to screw this guy and his family, she has screwed him and his family over very well. You don't agree?

In Madonna's blundering wake we have a man who denies giving her his baby for adoption, accusations the family is infected with the AIDS virus, a family accused of neglecting and abandoning a child, and then there's the orphanage accused of lying, who in turn accuse government officials of lying.


Old Post 10-29-2006 05:21 PM
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