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Zerrick
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The Federal Prison System post #1  quote:



Why is it that I can violently take a human life and get less prison time than someone who sells drugs?

Has anyone looked into the sentencing guidelines lately? They are giving, fathers, sons, uncles, and brothers life sentences for dope cases. First time offenders are so called "doing good" if they can come out with 7yrs. or less.

Don't get me wrong, I do not condone the selling of drugs, but the punishment does not fit the crime.

For the record I have never been to prison or jail, nor have I loss a family member to the prison system. However, I do not agree with the process, and I think it will take others like myself to get involved to potentially create a change.

All intellectual responses are appreciated...


Old Post 07-13-2004 06:52 PM
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post #2  quote:

I think the problem is this "tough on crime" attitude that has our prison in it's current decrepit state. It used to be flat out racism, but now I think it's a combination of racism and other factors like mandatory sentencing and drug policy. If you listen to politicians, they're always talking about the number of arrests, or how many prosecutions have occured under them, but then they never talk about their recidivism rates. Our prison system strips people of their dignity and punishes them still when released; this is why people end up going back to crime.

Bush wants to put job training programs in prison, but that's not enough considering the exponential increase in our prison population has come from mandatory sentencing and drugs. Drug rehabilitation is a big step in the right direction for our prison system. Along with job training and support of education programs, I think we could do a lot to help prisoners once they're released.


Old Post 08-06-2004 05:56 PM
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USA1
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post #3  quote:

I don;t understand why someone smoking Pot loses his job over the publicity and that drunk driver gets a fine.

Old Post 08-06-2004 06:25 PM
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Zerrick
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post #4  quote:

Blue - I agree with most of what you're saying. The only problem is most of the ex-cons find great difficulty in getting a job once their time has been served. Society has set up a swinging door policy for inmates. Make it damn near impossible to get a job and you will eventually committ another crime and end up back in prison.

What president elect is addressing this type issue?

USA1 - elaborate, I'm not clear on what you're saying.


Old Post 08-10-2004 06:47 PM
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post #5  quote:

I am replying to this thread, want to have better discussion then a lot of the crap I see here. USA1, care to elaborate as Zerrick has asked?

Old Post 09-03-2004 12:14 AM
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esskay
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post #6  quote:

In this office the joke goes that any one of us could go out and violently murder three people and still receive a lower sentence than for breaking into a couple computer systems. Way I figure is if anyone is intent on stealing and was thinking to do it by hacking, they may as well get themselves a nice big knife and threaten the lives of people who look like they've got money and force them to pay up, or perhaps take three hostages. That way if you get caught stealing, you may not have had to kill anyone at all and thus you're still just a small time crook by comparrison.

At the same time, this thread doesn't quite mesh with the Presidential Election forum and may be moved here shortly..


Old Post 09-03-2004 01:44 AM
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USA1
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post #7  quote:

I know this is a late responce to my post but here goes.
In the US there are many people. and do mean many, who own businesses, work in factories, are executives, millionares, fathers, mothers, coaches, atheletes who have gone on for years without a single conviction, speeding ticket or any police record of any kind. SOme are upstnadin citizens in the community who donate hundreds of hours to community service. All of them smoke pot. They have seemed to have made a life for themselves for 30 years and their children and their employees and are decent upstanding citizens but, they all have one thin in common, they smoke pot on occasion. For some reason,our government believes that all of these people, regardless of their records or deeds need to be put in jail. They also believe that pot smoking leads ot hard drugs, crime, and various other dispicable acts. Not to mention supporting terrorism. You see ,they believe that all pot is sold by supporters of terrorism therefore, it is a crime. They don't believe this stuff is growwn by many of these upstanding people right in their own back yard or in their closet at home. Just enough to keep them happy. You see, pot smoking is a hype in this country. The are no lasting effects that cause hysteria or psychological problems. It is not a drug that causes crime, it is the law that makes it a crime.
Should one of these individuals get busted, it gets publicized or eventaully gets out. Hence, loss of job and support in the community (Because it is a crime), not because it is harmful to someone other than the offender. Don;t get me wrong, pot should have the same regulations as any other legtal drug like alchohol and cigarettes.
I know people who have smoked pot everyday for 30 years and you would never, ever know this by spending time with them.
The laws on pot smoking insults our intelligence.
Think of the court cases that could be dropped and they could spend there time trying real criminals and freeing up out prisons at the same time.
Regilate Pot, tax it like cigarettes and elliminate billions of dollars in courts costs.


Old Post 09-03-2004 01:56 PM
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usanow
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post #8  quote:

innercityblue said:
"It used to be flat out racism, but now I think it's a combination of racism and other factors "

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA

What a joke. Yes, the rate of incarceration of minorities is racism. Hang on a second while I laugh some more.



Actually, Ashcroft and Cheny have spent $millions$ on planting drugs on African Americans. These victims are all hard-working model citizens, on their way out of the ghetto until they get victimized by 'The Man'. 'The Man' then calls their friendly sherrifs Bubba and Jim Bob, and bust 'em.

I am so freaking tired of hearing racism racism racism racism every time a minority person is arrested. Wake up, the US is not run by a bunch of racists. Instill some RESPONSIBILITY in the minority communities instead of blaming whitey.

Back to the point, Zerrick is 100% correct. Drug use should be minor offense, but drug distribution should be major. In all cases, rape and murder should carry a longer/tougher sentence than all but the most severe drug distribution charges (the kingpin of some Columbian drug cartel, for example).

Got to go, got to see if there are any government contracts posted today that would allow a white man such as myself to bid.....the ones I keep finding are reserved for minorities and women. I wish white people wern't so racist!


Old Post 09-03-2004 05:14 PM
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esskay
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post #9  quote:

quote:
USA1 said this in post #7 :
..For some reason,our government believes that all of these people, regardless of their records or deeds need to be put in jail. (...) Regilate Pot, tax it like cigarettes and elliminate billions of dollars in courts costs.


Though this doesn't have much to do with the prison system unless there's some statistic I don't know about showing that there are hundreds of thousands of marijuana violators in prison right now.. I will say at the risk of overstating the obvious that the reason they are in jail and the government believes they belong there is because MJ is considered a "controlled substance." The fight is, of course, to get it off that list. Everyone who needs to knows that it's no worse than alcohol. We went through a prohibition period on alcohol too. I believe the day will come when prohibition comes to an end on canabis - maybe all forms of drugs for that matter.

The supreme irony of the whole situation is that if drugs were legalized, our crime would be reduced immediately. There would be no underground drug trade. There would be no gang wars of trafficking. There wouldn't be people getting killed every day over normal business & marketing. The quality of drugs would improve making them less deadly due to foreign toxins introduced by "cutting." Marketing for them could be federally regulated just like tobacco and alcohol products to where they are not pitched to minors.

This would not eliminate all drug-related problems: you would still have crack-babies because their mothers are stupid, cheap and dirty - but that's no different from alcoholic mothers. You would still have people dying from over-dosing or driving under the influence, etc - but that's no different from dying of alcohol poisoning or drunk driving.

By my mind, the most important fact is that these are substances that people choose to or not to use of their own free will. They do so despite what the law says. Obviously the law has no impact on the situation, so why raise a fuss about it? Just CONTROL the situation as has been done with tobacco and alcohol and law-makers' primary concern which is the kids is addressed as well as it is today, crime is instantly reduced, our prisons are emptied out and finally the law can focus on the more dangerous criminals out there.

This topic extends well beyond the prison system though; it gets into the fabric of our social law model.


Old Post 09-03-2004 05:37 PM
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post #10  quote:

quote:
usanow said this in post #8 :
innercityblue said:
"It used to be flat out racism, but now I think it's a combination of racism and other factors "

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA

What a joke. Yes, the rate of incarceration of minorities is racism. Hang on a second while I laugh some more.



Actually, Ashcroft and Cheny have spent $millions$ on planting drugs on African Americans. These victims are all hard-working model citizens, on their way out of the ghetto until they get victimized by 'The Man'. 'The Man' then calls their friendly sherrifs Bubba and Jim Bob, and bust 'em.

I am so freaking tired of hearing racism racism racism racism every time a minority person is arrested. Wake up, the US is not run by a bunch of racists. Instill some RESPONSIBILITY in the minority communities instead of blaming whitey.

Back to the point, Zerrick is 100% correct. Drug use should be minor offense, but drug distribution should be major. In all cases, rape and murder should carry a longer/tougher sentence than all but the most severe drug distribution charges (the kingpin of some Columbian drug cartel, for example).

Got to go, got to see if there are any government contracts posted today that would allow a white man such as myself to bid.....the ones I keep finding are reserved for minorities and women. I wish white people wern't so racist!

Are you completely stupid or something? I'm sorry if I seem like I'm insulting you but you completely are putting words into my mouth and are ignoring the statement I was making. Blacks back in the 1950's, 1960's, etc. would go to jail when they were completely innocent of the crime. That has nothing to John Ashcroft, nor am I talking about "African-Americans" alone. You completely missed the point. So sickening...

Should I even try explain things to you? I don't think I will because you're ignorance is just searing to the surface now.

But I will anyway because I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you needed clarification...

I'm not trying to say that all black in jail are their because someone planted drugs on them. There are disparities in sentencing between minorities and whites. This is what people talk about when they talk about the remaining racism in this country. They don't care that these people are going jail, they just expect everyone to get equal sentences for equal crimes. Whatever tangent you're trying to go on with racism makes no sense and shows you have absolutely no understanding of a lot issues with racism in America.

The statement I was making was, early on our prison system had problems, the chief issue was the racist structure of our society and the incarceration of many innocent people due skin color. Now racism is not as pronounced, other prison issues have now arisen like mandatory sentencing and drug policy. I'm talking about the judicial system in its levying of prison sentences. Now you still have the problems of racism (they never went away) and the addition of mandatory sentencing and drug policy, which affects everybody.

Moving on...

Drug laws are the big reasons we have a prison population above 2 million. And then a lot of these nonviolent drug offenders are placed in prisons with inmates who have murdered, assaulted, raped, and done other heinous crimes. They go into this system and then become like these people to stake their survival. Then they come out worse. I don't think this is healthy for our prisons and I think it's a shame that no politician will vocalize this idea.

People always seem to think taking any approach to a situation other than killing or putting these people in jail is being soft on crime and it is a pity. This is not about being soft on crime or coddling prisoners. This is about making our society safer by making sure that the people that come out of prison don't go back in for doing the same damn thing.

You will never hear Bush or Kerry talk about this. That's the sad part...

You can also make the parallel to terrorism, where people think that any other alternative way of fighting terrorism will be appeasement, which makes no sense at all; there never is one way of doing things. And if your actions are creating more problems despite the fact that you've taken an agressive stance against the issue, this doesn't mean that your actions breed more safety or security.

I believe this applies to the War on Drugs, War on Terrorism, and the War on Crime. Notice these "War on ___" always seem to suffer from this problem because reforms in strategy are always shouted down as appeasement or coddling.

We need to change our attitudes where we consider it a loss to change strategy. This is why the War on Drugs has failed, and this is why the War on Terrorism will fail also, we've created more terrorists with the War in Iraq and they're all not going to attack US troops there, they're coming here.


Old Post 09-11-2004 07:46 AM
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post #11  quote:

quote:
Sean Kelly said this in post #9 :


Though this doesn't have much to do with the prison system unless there's some statistic I don't know about showing that there are hundreds of thousands of marijuana violators in prison right now.. I will say at the risk of overstating the obvious that the reason they are in jail and the government believes they belong there is because MJ is considered a "controlled substance." The fight is, of course, to get it off that list. Everyone who needs to knows that it's no worse than alcohol. We went through a prohibition period on alcohol too. I believe the day will come when prohibition comes to an end on canabis - maybe all forms of drugs for that matter.

The supreme irony of the whole situation is that if drugs were legalized, our crime would be reduced immediately. There would be no underground drug trade. There would be no gang wars of trafficking. There wouldn't be people getting killed every day over normal business & marketing. The quality of drugs would improve making them less deadly due to foreign toxins introduced by "cutting." Marketing for them could be federally regulated just like tobacco and alcohol products to where they are not pitched to minors.

This would not eliminate all drug-related problems: you would still have crack-babies because their mothers are stupid, cheap and dirty - but that's no different from alcoholic mothers. You would still have people dying from over-dosing or driving under the influence, etc - but that's no different from dying of alcohol poisoning or drunk driving.

By my mind, the most important fact is that these are substances that people choose to or not to use of their own free will. They do so despite what the law says. Obviously the law has no impact on the situation, so why raise a fuss about it? Just CONTROL the situation as has been done with tobacco and alcohol and law-makers' primary concern which is the kids is addressed as well as it is today, crime is instantly reduced, our prisons are emptied out and finally the law can focus on the more dangerous criminals out there.

This topic extends well beyond the prison system though; it gets into the fabric of our social law model.

I completely agree with you on the point you've just stated. And stated so well.


Old Post 09-11-2004 07:49 AM
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Anomaly77
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post #12  quote:

What really disgusts me is that a peron will typically do more time for a drug sentance than they will for rape...especially considering the high recidivism rates of rapists.

Old Post 09-11-2004 02:52 PM
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post #13  quote:

quote:
Anomaly77 said this in post #12 :
What really disgusts me is that a peron will typically do more time for a drug sentance than they will for rape...especially considering the high recidivism rates of rapists.

A high recidivism rate is seen in drug users to because they get no treatment, they think they can punish an addict by sending them to jail, where they still can get drugs, and the untreated illness continues when they get out, thus never resolving the issue.


Old Post 09-12-2004 10:07 PM
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nikiTa
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post #14  quote:

I admit I am a little confused about this thread.

It is labeled "The Federal Prison System."

Most of the crimes you are talking about are handled by state prisons.

Federal crimes are a whole different ball game.
For example, there is a federal prison a couple of miles from me. It held Timothy McVeigh when he was still alive and not fried.


Old Post 09-13-2004 12:40 AM
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post #15  quote:

quote:
sowhatsthetruth said this in post #14 :
I admit I am a little confused about this thread.

It is labeled "The Federal Prison System."

Most of the crimes you are talking about are handled by state prisons.

Federal crimes are a whole different ball game.
For example, there is a federal prison a couple of miles from me. It held Timothy McVeigh when he was still alive and not fried.

Perhaps it is a misnomer, I mean the prison system in general.


Old Post 09-13-2004 12:44 AM
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nikiTa
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post #16  quote:

Anomoly77,

I agree with you when you said, "What really disgusts me is that a peron will typically do more time for a drug sentance than they will for rape...especially considering the high recidivism rates of rapists."

I think as part of the punishment, they should be mutilated. I don't find it cruel nor unusual punishment.
That would handle the recidivism for these scumbags.

When I worked for the state court system, I had long discussions with federal parole officers who were specifically assigned only to pedophiles. They were so tired of babysitting these creeps that they often talked about how they should just give those guys life sentences or the death penalty. They said they NEVER have seen a rehabilitated pedophile. Problem is, the Catholic Church would be short on staff!!!!!!!!!!!


Old Post 09-13-2004 12:48 AM
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post #17  quote:

quote:
sowhatsthetruth said this in post #16 :
Anomoly77,

I agree with you when you said, "What really disgusts me is that a peron will typically do more time for a drug sentance than they will for rape...especially considering the high recidivism rates of rapists."

I think as part of the punishment, they should be mutilated. I don't find it cruel nor unusual punishment.
That would handle the recidivism for these scumbags.

When I worked for the state court system, I had long discussions with federal parole officers who were specifically assigned only to pedophiles. They were so tired of babysitting these creeps that they often talked about how they should just give those guys life sentences or the death penalty. They said they NEVER have seen a rehabilitated pedophile. Problem is, the Catholic Church would be short on staff!!!!!!!!!!!

Could it be these people have mental issues? I don't understand how you can move to kill so easily.

Yes killing eliminates pedophiles, but what if by chance you execute the innocent. I've seen too many cases where a child has been coerced into lying. The death penalty is cruel and unusual no matter what way you carry it out.

I think the death penalty is immoral.

I take it that you're not Catholic.


Old Post 09-13-2004 01:16 AM
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post #18  quote:

ICB,
I wasn't necessarily giving my personal opinion of how to deal with pedophiles.

I was giving voice to the frustration of federal probation officers who have to babysit them. As far as they are concerned, they are NOT candidates for rehabilitation.
Note, I was talking to federal probation officers. When it gets to this level, there is no room for "innocent" pedophiles. These are repeat offenders who they have to closely watch because as soon as they leave prison, they go straight to children. And that is their point, they are sick of having to watch their every move.

And no, I am not Catholic. Tried it once. Met with a priest weekly for information. I left because I was too distracted by the dog that continuously humped his leg during our meeting.


Old Post 09-13-2004 01:59 AM
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Anomaly77
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post #19  quote:

quote:
Inner City Blue said this in post #13 :

A high recidivism rate is seen in drug users to because they get no treatment, they think they can punish an addict by sending them to jail, where they still can get drugs, and the untreated illness continues when they get out, thus never resolving the issue.


Rapists hurt innocent women and children.
I have no sympathy for them.
Kill them, castrate them, lock them up forever...I don't care. But, a jail sentence of 2-5yrs is insulting to the victim.

Drug users do have an illness and so I do extend a bit of sympathy to them. There should be better treatment programs. To equate their crime as worse than rape by giving them longer sentences than rapists, to me...is absurd.

I do not believe that a sexual predator can be rehabilitated.
I do believe an addict can.


Old Post 09-13-2004 02:29 AM
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USA1
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post #20  quote:

Pedophelia is incurable. This is a known medical fact. They should never be allowed out of prison. Let the pot smokers out to make room for the the real criminals.

Old Post 09-13-2004 12:48 PM
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Zerrick
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post #21  quote:

quote:
Inner City Blue said this in post #10 :


[QUOTE]Drug laws are the big reasons we have a prison population above 2 million. And then a lot of these nonviolent drug offenders are placed in prisons with inmates who have murdered, assaulted, raped, and done other heinous crimes. They go into this system and then become like these people to stake their survival. Then they come out worse. I don't think this is healthy for our prisons and I think it's a shame that no politician will vocalize this idea.



You will never hear Bush or Kerry talk about this. That's the sad part...



Blue - I wanted to stand up and jump up and down as I was reading your post. You are right on!!!

Racism is still alive in the prison system and not very well hidden IMO. They have taken crimes typical of Blacks and made the sentencing guidelines for those crimes ridiculously long.

Please do not misunderstand me, I do not condone the solicitation of drugs, but the sentencing guidelines for this punishment is raciest! Drug dealing, trafficking, is more common in the Minority community. It's what society now calls "Profiling" a criminal. When you think of Kidnapping, you typically will think the accused is white, embezzlement, a white crime. Robbing a Seven Eleven, a minority crime.

I know everyone remembers the snippers (Mohammad and young follower). It took the authorities so long to find them because they were more than likely looking for someone white.

This is what they have done to the drug laws. Taken a crime typical of minorities and made the guidelines life sentences in most cases.


The prison system is a joke. It's a shame that no president or President elect has addressed this issue. I also haven't heard any questions related to the federal Prison system being asked by the citizens of the U.S.A. If I am wrong and these issues have been raised please correct me. I am disappointed that more people aren't concerned with this issue. It burns me. I have other issues with the Prison system, this is by far my largest concern.


Old Post 09-14-2004 05:57 PM
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usanow
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post #22  quote:

Inner City Blue said to me:
quote:
Are you completely stupid or something? I'm sorry if I seem like I'm insulting you but you completely are putting words into my mouth and are ignoring the statement I was making. Blacks back in the 1950's, 1960's, etc. would go to jail when they were completely innocent of the crime. That has nothing to John Ashcroft, nor am I talking about "African-Americans" alone. You completely missed the point. So sickening...

Should I even try explain things to you? I don't think I will because you're ignorance is just searing to the surface now.


Come on, ICB, tell me what you really think. No, I'm not completely stupid, only about half and half.

Your original statement was:

quote:
It used to be flat out racism, but now I think it's a combination of racism and other factors
It sounded to me like you attributed an entire generation of incarcerated minorities to 'flat out racism'. And you stated that we have institutionalized racism in federal sentencing. I do not believe that. I would love to see some numbers that illustrate any bias in judicial interpretation that shows bias based on race. I could be wrong....but I'd bet all things considered our judicial system is 99% free of any racial bias.

On your thesis on the failed 'War on..' initiatives, I agree to an extent. However, should we ever stop our war on drunk driving? Should we ever stop our war on industries that pollute our environment? Of course not. Have we won those yet? No, ....and we never will. But if we keep fighting the war, our lakes, rivers, and air will be cleaner 50 years from now than they would have otherwise. We'll never stop all emissions, but we have to keep fighting. And perhaps a few hundred fewer people will die in a collision with a drunk driver. We'll always have people driving drunk, but we have to keep fighting.

Don't give up a war because you can't be 100% victorious.


Old Post 09-14-2004 09:11 PM
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usanow
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post #23  quote:

quote:
sowhatsthetruth said this in post #16 :
Anomoly77,

They said they NEVER have seen a rehabilitated pedophile. Problem is, the Catholic Church would be short on staff!!!!!!!!!!!


Nice.

If you say that you believe blacks and whites should be treated equally everywhere, and there should be no affirmative action, you get flamed on this board for being a racist.

If you say that unborn babies should be protected, you are labeled an intolerant neocon and asked to 'go away'.

But if you can say that our judicial system is structured to give harsher sentences to blacks, you are labeled a hero.

To top it off, if you characterize the staff members of a church with 1,000,000,000 members as child molesters, you get a free pass. One benign 'I take it your not Catholic?' comment is all. Well, at least Inner City Blue didn't let the comment go completely unchecked. Thanks ICB.


Old Post 09-14-2004 09:20 PM
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esskay
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post #24  quote:

quote:
usanow said this in post #23 :

If you say [this] you get flamed on this board for being a racist.

If you say [that] you are labeled an intolerant neocon and asked to 'go away'.

But if you can say [this] you are labeled a hero.

.. if you [say something else] you get a free pass..


Just goes to show that you can't place much stock in labels, doesn't it? That's why I continue to wonder why people insist on putting others into nice, neat little boxes so that they can feel like they've got a firm grasp on the situation and everything is just so simple to understand and categorize that others must be idiots to not recognize their truth.


Old Post 09-14-2004 09:29 PM
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post #25  quote:

quote:
Zerrick said this in post #21 :

Racism is still alive in the prison system and not very well hidden IMO. They have taken crimes typical of Blacks and made the sentencing guidelines for those crimes ridiculously long.

Please do not misunderstand me, I do not condone the solicitation of drugs, but the sentencing guidelines for this punishment is raciest! Drug dealing, trafficking, is more common in the Minority community. It's what society now calls "Profiling" a criminal. When you think of Kidnapping, you typically will think the accused is white, embezzlement, a white crime. Robbing a Seven Eleven, a minority crime.

I know everyone remembers the snippers (Mohammad and young follower). It took the authorities so long to find them because they were more than likely looking for someone white.

This is what they have done to the drug laws. Taken a crime typical of minorities and made the guidelines life sentences in most cases.


Help me here, Zerrick. What is it about blacks that makes them more predisposed to drug consumption and dealing than are whites? If I were to say, 'blacks are just different than whites - they just love consuming and dealing those drugs', I'd be considered a racist, wouldn't I?

If law enforcement busts a person for drug distribution, how is that 'profiling'? It's not like they stumble across 50 drug dealers every day and just go after the black ones. They bust a user, get intelligence and work their way up the food chain. If the dealer up the chain happens to be black, white, or whatever, he/she gets busted.

Are we on the same page that a crime should be punished to the extent it harms others? It should consider how harmful the crime is, and how many people were impacted. So I agree with you on drug consumption sentencing, but drug dealing is a crime that hurts millions of kids across this country.

If I believed that drug dealing was more prevalent in the white community, as a white person I'd like to see stiffer penalties for distribution because I don't want drugs being distributed in my neighborhood.


Old Post 09-14-2004 09:34 PM
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nikiTa
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post #26  quote:

he said this:
To top it off, if you characterize the staff members of a church with 1,000,000,000 members as child molesters, you get a free pass. One benign 'I take it your not Catholic?' comment is all. Well, at least Inner City Blue didn't let the comment go completely unchecked. Thanks ICB."

It's not a characterization....it's an epidemic in the Catholic Church.


Old Post 09-15-2004 05:01 AM
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usanow
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post #27  quote:

quote:
sowhatsthetruth said this in post #26 :
he said this:
To top it off, if you characterize the staff members of a church with 1,000,000,000 members as child molesters, you get a free pass. One benign 'I take it your not Catholic?' comment is all. Well, at least Inner City Blue didn't let the comment go completely unchecked. Thanks ICB."

It's not a characterization....it's an epidemic in the Catholic Church.


Epidemic? Hardly. There are nearly 50,000 Catholic clergy in the United States. My understanding (who knows for sure) is that the number of accused priests represents around 2% of the total, which is in line with the general male population. It's too high of a number by any estimation, the only epidemic is in the minds of people who listen to your kind of rhetoric.

I've been a Catholic for 40 years and have held leadership positions in 3 different parishes. I've known dozens of priests, deacons, and bishops as well as thousands of fellow Catholics and I haven't come across 1 incident. Obviously they are not always public, but if this were an 'epidemic' then I think I'd have come across at least one incident.


Old Post 09-15-2004 05:33 AM
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nikiTa
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post #28  quote:

he said
I've been a Catholic for 40 years and have held leadership positions in 3 different parishes. "

Well good for you!
Bet you are a "keeper of the keys" with the best of 'em.
Gotta unlock those minds!!


Old Post 09-15-2004 05:53 AM
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usanow
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post #29  quote:

quote:
sowhatsthetruth said this in post #28 :
he said
I've been a Catholic for 40 years and have held leadership positions in 3 different parishes. "

Well good for you!
Bet you are a "keeper of the keys" with the best of 'em.
Gotta unlock those minds!!


Let me get this straight - by 'keeper of the keys' are you implying that I am working to keep scandalous behavior under the table. Are you accusing me of being complicit in the molestation of children?

Every person involved in any ministry in the Catholic Church must go through training to address this issue. The training is focused on 1) awareness of potential issues, and 2) ensuring all interactions with youth are appropriate. Becoming certified to work in a youth ministry also requires a background check . The training featured a movie about 2 admitted child molestors who spoke at length about their methods. Obviously, no training is perfect, but today every person involved in ministries is better prepared to ID potential issues.


Old Post 09-15-2004 05:11 PM
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nikiTa
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post #30  quote:

You said: Let me get this straight - by 'keeper of the keys' are you implying that I am working to keep scandalous behavior under the table. Are you accusing me of being complicit in the molestation of children?

If you don't understand what I was saying that is a good sign!


Old Post 09-16-2004 12:45 AM
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