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mbenz2001
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post #91  quote:

Another part that i find odd is that there was no semen found anywhere on her body or her clothes. Doesn't that completely go against a child molesters goal? He does things FOR the sexual pleasure of it all, it gets him off. (so to speak) If this crime was committed by a child molester or a sexual preditor he would have definately left something behind. Nope, that doesn't wash for me. I'm still waiting for someone to disprove my theory here. ???

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post #92  quote:

You have no proof!!! Have you bothered to research this case? Or are you putting down your ideas like snowflakes.

Excuse me. if you want to debate I suggest you do it with an informed mind and not conclusions you come to all by yourself.


Sorry Mystic, I tried.

D

And befor you say or think it I don't know everything but I do know I follow the case and to say a pedophile has to leave semen is ludicious, All pedophiles get their kicks in dififferent ways, but why waste my time with someone who has a preconceived notion and will not listen to reason?


Old Post 07-29-2004 01:49 AM
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post #93  quote:

quote:
Delta said this in post #92 :
You have no proof!!! Have you bothered to research this case? Or are you putting down your ideas like snowflakes.

Excuse me. if you want to debate I suggest you do it with an informed mind and not conclusions you come to all by yourself.


Sorry Mystic, I tried.

D

And befor you say or think it I don't know everything but I do know I follow the case and to say a pedophile has to leave semen is ludicious, All pedophiles get their kicks in dififferent ways, but why waste my time with someone who has a preconceived notion and will not listen to reason?


Why are you telling Mystic you are sorry? What does she have to do with my posts or thinking?

Basically what i have been doing is putting my ideas on this board for discussion and as i read more and more i get even more ideas as to what may of happened so basically i am thinking aloud on here. I never said there was any evidence to prove my theory because all in all, it is just a theory not fact. You say that you have been keeping up with this case and know most of what those facts are so why are you attacking me? Start disproving my theory? I think that would be much more helpful.


Old Post 07-29-2004 04:21 PM
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No Doubt About Iit You are Right post #94  quote:

Ok lesson one what is a pedophile,so we can exciude this from the Jon Bonnet Murder.: Pedophiles find ways to be around children as often as possible. They get jobs as teachers, camp counselors, schoolbus drivers, daycare workers, or even enter the priesthood. They volunteer as Boy Scout leaders, church or secular youth workers, or with organizations such as Trucker Buddy International. Of course most of the people in these professions and volunteer positions are not pedophiles, and are indeed honest, moral and upright people, but most pedophiles will seek out these type of occupations and volunteer positions. They look for opportunities to be around kids as much as possible.
Some will even marry or become roommates with women who have children. Or they become friends with single moms to have access to their kids. They seek out those kids whose fathers are no longer in their lives. The moms usually see these men as an answer to their prayers, for here at last is a man who is willing to spend time with their children and be that role model they've been looking for. Kids crave attention, affection and kindness, and here is someone who is willing to give these things to their child. Little do they know that this man they trust, who comes across as being friendly, helpful and trustworthy, is a pedophile and is quite knowledgeable about the methods of grooming kids for seduction.
A pedophile will spend a lot of time getting the child ready for seduction. Sometimes he will take months or even a year or two "grooming" the child and preparing him. He uses this time to build up the child's trust in him and to get the child to see him as his best friend. He slowly seduces the child by doing such things as playing with him and being in close contact with him. He will tickle the child and give him "tummy farts." He will watch movies with the child and sit very close to him, often putting his arm around the child or even having the child sit on his lap. The child, of course, feels that this man really cares about him and that he can talk to him about anything. If there is a father figure or other male role model missing from the child's life, then of course the pedophile knows that this child is just the victim he is looking for. He, however, does not view the child as a victim, but a person he can share love, fun and pleasure with. The thing to remember is that the pedophile does not think like a normal adult. Indeed, he has serious psychological imbalances and views his actions in the same way as an adult male who is
attempting seduction of an adult female.

The foregoing exhibits pedophial behavior, such as, This, perverts are usually much involved with the family of those they choose as their "buddies"

There is nothing in this case to point toward any pedophile behavior.

Burke was far too young to be considered one. If he conspired with another boy or man he would have had to show some indictiations of perverted behavior.

Burke is and was a regular guy not won't to peculiar fantasies.

Semen was not found at the crime scene . Nada Niltz Nothing .

Patsy and John took a lie detector test by an expert firm and were found not to be involved in this terrible murder . The police department had the Ramseys under close scrutiny for a long time and banqrupted these people, who had to secure attorneys to defend their reputations.
The private Investigator Lou Smitt went over the entire house and equated exactly how the outsider got in thru the basement window which wasn't locked.

The intruder had ample time to write a ransom note and place it on the stairs and using the stunt gun dropped Jon Bonnet so she was unable to yell or crry for help.
This intruder used a garotte to strangle her and the photos are available and if you wish to see them google up Jon Bonnet and find them ,I think they are too private to be posted.
Ok Thats it for tonight.

D


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Protecting only child left post #95  quote:

quote:
mbenz2001 said this in post #77 :


Wouldn't you protect the only child that you have left? You seem to be forgetting that in my theory that this crime was an accident. A game being played by children gone wrong. Why would John and Patsy intentionally divert / cover up evidence? Don't you think they would want to find their daughters killer? Oh, and btw things for Scott Perterson don't look very promising to me. I suppose OJ was a victim too for you. The writing is on the wall, all you need to do is keep an open mind while reading it ...


If Burke were involved( which he wasn't) in Colorado he would have gotten off, because ofhis age, so the Ramseys protecting him is not applicable.


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post #96  quote:

I just can't agree with the way that Lou Smitt has laid the case out. It doesn't make any sense for someone to break into a home, casually eat pineapples with the victim then string her up in the victims OWN basement with three other people in the house and tortures her until death. Then proceeds to sit there and write a randsom note like he has all of the time in the world. The information in that randsom note are totally bizarre. Don't you think that an intruder would have written a more shorter to the point note? Why would he sit there and add all of those stupid little comments that were made?, Especially if the little girl was already dead hanging in the basement thanks to himself and could be caught at any moment. No way. The person who committed this crime knew they had plenty of time and had no fear of Patsy and John waking. Who could have possibly known the Ramseys sleeping habits well enough to know that they wouldn't wake? Maybe the Ramseys were the kind of people to use the bathroom at night and check on their kids each and every time. How would an intruder know that they weren't? Did the intruder throw caution to the wind and say i'll risk getting caught by killing her here? I'm not buying into any of that. The evidence that they have regarding an intruder could have very easily been staged.

Old Post 08-02-2004 06:52 PM
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post #97  quote:

And the notion that Burke would have gotten off because of his age and the Ramseys having no reason to cover up the crime is baloney. Who would want their child to be under scutiny, ridiculed and whispered about for the rest of his life? People are cruel especially when such an injustice has been done.

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post #98  quote:

Did you ever hear of Sociopathic individuals? Sure you have,,as you appear to be a well informed individual. If not Google it up and you will see that people exist that are cool as cucumbers while they have committed terrible crimes.


Burke was cleared by the DNA which specifically stated it belonged to no family member.

Your idea of this being a conspircy between Burke and someone has not been proven. You doubt all evidene so all I can say to you is research and prove some of your ideas, cause ideas are nothing in and of themselves but figments of your imagination. No offense meant.
D


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post #99  quote:

Delta....

Its not that Im going against you....but I have to say this, and you know I do...

You are to free in using the word "sociopath."

If you think about it, any murderer can be coined with that term now...even if it doesnt fit the person.

The word was meant to be for specific people, but many now throw the term around so loosely that it starts to lose its intended meaning.

The problem I see is that you say someone is wrong in their theory, yet you throw around this word like the person that killed her is a sociopath, and isnt that also throwing out an "unproved" theory??

In my personal opinion, I dont know, as the phrase goes, "who done it."

I have never given up the belief that it could have been someone who knew her...not necessarily Burke, but another person that she would trust....the one thing I do agree with is the pineapple thing mbenz talked about....it is out of the oridinary for someone to sit down and eat with a total stranger without screaming or making some kind of noise unless they were threatened in some way...but it would be very strange to do that while people are in the house.

Even sociopaths dont go around killing people with others around. They are aware because they dont want to be caught.


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post #100  quote:

Quit trying to say i throw Sociopath around Mystic. here is a perfect place for one to insert an a bereant behavior, call it what you will. Experts title it Sociopathic behavior. And that is what happened i this case as far as we know. Forget Sociopathic behavior and discuss abberant behavior. Same thing different title.

Truth is we all don't know what happened and all we have to go on is the evidence so far distriibuted and thats only that the DNA did not belong to a family member. Also Burke would have had a lot of explaining to do with an ABERANT friend doncha think.? Can't spell it but know it. Hee Hee


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post #101  quote:

quote:
Delta said this in post #100 :
Quit trying to say i throw Sociopath around Mystic. here is a perfect place for one to insert an a bereant behavior, call it what you will. Experts title it Sociopathic behavior. And that is what happened i this case as far as we know. Forget Sociopathic behavior and discuss abberant behavior. Same thing different title.

Truth is we all don't know what happened and all we have to go on is the evidence so far distriibuted and thats only that the DNA did not belong to a family member. Also Burke would have had a lot of explaining to do with an ABERANT friend doncha think.? Can't spell it but know it. Hee Hee


You do throw it around. You call Scott a sociopath also....

I cant help but laugh...and Im not just saying you so this...many people do that....the word is too loosely termed in many people's eyes....thats just my thought on it.

Again, this person didnt necessarily have to be a "sociopath" or whatever...murderers arent always sociopaths....I know people want to think that, but in terms of the word, they arent.

Any murder for the most part is abberant...all that means is it isnt acceptable...murderers on the other hand are sometimes acceptable (depending on how you coin that word) and normal (in the basic sense of the word)...I mean, anyone can say that any murderer isnt normal, but they arent necessarily sociopath.

Sociopath and abberant are different terms. abberant means not normal or acceptable, whereas sociopath means that one has a mental disorder which shows in extreme antisocial attitudes and behaviors.


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post #102  quote:

Wow, i'm glad you guys cleared that up for me! LOL

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post #103  quote:

The way i see it is that this case and the way that it is/was laid out makes NO sense. The puzzle just doesn't fit together which leads me to search for another scenario. The evidence doesn't really support my theory but it doesn't disprove it either. How could there be evidence when the investigators never checked on my particular theory. They never checked his video games? They never checked the DNA against any of his classmates/friends? Never checked the boot print, never checked the palm print. What harm would it do for investigators to check out my theory? He may have even gotten a new video game for xmas and was mimicking that one. How hard would it be to find out if he had gotten a new game ? Probably very hard because his parents would say that he hardly ever played video games. (can we all say cover up) I tried to research the most popular video games for that year but was unsuccessful.

Old Post 08-03-2004 03:52 PM
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post #104  quote:

I know you guys don't support my theory but i really don't mind. I know in my heart that John and Patsy did not kill that child. I also know in my heart that some cracker did not break into their home and casually do all of his evil misdoings while there were people upstairs in bed and the possibility of himself getting caught at any moment just doesn't wash for me. Not to mention that stupid note he supposedly left. IMO The case the investigators laid out is definately not the correct one.

Old Post 08-03-2004 04:03 PM
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post #105  quote:

I may not fully support your theory, but I dont discount it either.

I think everything is worth looking at.


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post #106  quote:

mE TOO!!!

d


Old Post 08-03-2004 06:33 PM
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post #107  quote:

quote:
mystic said this in post #105 :
I may not fully support your theory, but I dont discount it either.

I think everything is worth looking at.


Thats the way i see it too. I think the worst part for me is that stupid note. The intruder/mental cracker already knew she was DEAD!! Why would he waste so much time and go into such detail about what the Ramseys should do to get their daughter back all the while he already knew that the note was totally pointless. Instead the note started to ramble on and on about things that didn't even matter? IMO the note was left as a diversion from the actual crime that took place. Same with the suitcase and broken window. There is another thing that puzzles me. Why did John Ramsey go directly to the side basement room where she was? From what i understood, that room was never used? Yet he went directly there.? Everything keeps leading me back to my theory time and time again.
Somewhere along the way Patsy and John figured it out by themselves and started staging evidence. It must be something very horrific for a parent not to want to bring their daughters killer to justice. Although what the Ramseys have been through and what they will need to go through the rest of their lives maybe justice is already being served.


Old Post 08-04-2004 03:12 PM
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post #108  quote:

i DON'T AGREE with your ideas. John And Patsy Ramsey have been thru hell and t he polcie department did not follow up on clues. The footprint out side the casemenet window, the DNA that was not discovered for years.

The only person that has made any sense is Lou Smit the PI. He is still working on the case and will probably be the one to find the real killer.
This PI has a terrrific reputation and I think I will wait for him to come up with the real deal.
Did you know the entire Denver police department was fired as a result of the sloppy handling of this case?

D


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post #109  quote:

quote:
Delta said this in post #108 :
Did you know the entire Denver police department was fired as a result of the sloppy handling of this case?



Maybe they should do the same thing to the Modesto Police Department.

How you can say the Devner officers should be fired for sloppy work and give kudos to the MPD is beyond me.

I agree with mbenz with many things. I think there is more to it than a complete stranger....

The more things I read, the more I remember why I had a feeling long ago that it was someone Jonbenet knew.

That feeling is slowly coming back.


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post #110  quote:

When Mystic did I say the Modesto police department was really doing a good job? I must have been on drugs( doctor prescribed of course)

Also never said that Jon Bonnet didn't know her killer, only it waS NOT A FAMILY MEMBER.

Hey becker heard from defensiive so I sent her an email and hope she answers.,Sorry OT but important.

Hey benzi where do you post besides here ? Anythng interesting elsewhwere on Jon Bonnet? Or Scott Peterson?
Have a good day,

D


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post #111  quote:

quote:
Delta said this in post #110 :
When Mystic did I say the Modesto police department was really doing a good job? I must have been on drugs( doctor prescribed of course )

Of course! Okay...you are relieved of saying that because of the doctor prescribed drugs..

Also never said that Jon Bonnet didn't know her killer, only it waS NOT A FAMILY MEMBER.

Okay...but maybe somehow Burke did know...I have to google around and see if those 911 tapes are available to listen to.

Hey becker heard from defensiive so I sent her an email and hope she answers.,Sorry OT but important.

How she doing??



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post #112  quote:

I emailed her to day and hope she answers tonight.

D


Old Post 08-04-2004 11:06 PM
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post #113  quote:

I guess that it could be possible that one of Burkes friends did this without Burke knowing but that is slim for me. It would be possible for a friend of his to know the alarm code to turn it off, a friend that went home with Burke after school and watched how it was done. But that scenario seems that his friend would have needed to be awfully bold to attempt something like that alone in the dead of night i might add. Not likely it happened that way, for me anyways.

And Delta, you said that the evidence wasn't found for years so that means that it could have been put there by anyone? Not neccessarily the intruder? Or did i misunderstand what you are saying?

I haven't been posting anywhere regarding this case other than here. I do post on another board but that is a political forum. And i haven't been following the Pererson case at all. I do hear a few things from the news but really no specifics on the case.


Old Post 08-05-2004 04:29 PM
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post #114  quote:

Mystic, that bothers me too. I couldn't find any information regarding the actions of Burke when this crime came to light. Was he hysterical? did he cry? or did he just shrink into the backround with not much emotion? These questions regarding Burkes demeanor at the time of the crime are very important to my theory yet i can't find anything on it? Arrrgh, this is so frustrating!! Help if you run across anything please.

Old Post 08-05-2004 04:39 PM
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post #115  quote:

I dont know what to make of this....as of last year, they havent released the 911 tape....

First Patsy said Burke wasnt awake during the call, but it seems as they audio-enhanced it someone heard Burke talking, and then last year the Ramsey's said Burke was awake but in another room.

It seems as if what Burke said is kind of odd too, unless he is talking about the note...BUT...after reading the end of the article, it seems as if this wasnt true?

Anyhow...this article is a bit confusing to me...it talks of one thing and then goes into another aspect...

The red highlights are supposed reports...and the blue highlights talk about no additional conversations and that the network supports the FBI conclusion.

Im guessing that this means that he wasnt heard according to the FBI...I believe thats what the outcome is...

Still...isnt it odd that they said he was asleep during the call, and then changed their story much later? Even if he wasnt heard...why change the story after all that time? They knew he was awake in another room...why didnt they just say that from the beginning? I think thats odd.



Ramsey 911 tape aired
Patsy Ramsey can be heard asking 911 operator for help


By Christine Reid, Camera Staff Writer

July 8, 2003


"We have a kidnapping. Hurry please," a panicked sounding Patsy Ramsey tells a 911 operator the morning JonBenet went missing.

"There's a note left, and our daughter's gone," she can be heard telling the operator in the minute-long call aired for the first time Tuesday on the Today Show and again on Dateline NBC.

The recording, provided by Ramsey attorney L. Lin Wood, captures an exasperated and sometimes breathless Patsy Ramsey at 5:51 a.m. Dec. 26, 1996, explaining to a 911 operator that her daughter is missing and there is a ransom note.

JonBenet's beaten and strangled body was found in the family's basement seven hours later.

Only Wood and the Boulder County District Attorney's office have recordings of the 911 call.

Wood released it to NBC as part of his ongoing campaign to clear the Ramseys' names as suspects in their daughter's death ? an effort buoyed in an Atlanta federal civil court ruling in April that pointed to the theory an intruder killed the girl.

He did not return repeated telephone calls Monday or Tuesday.

District Attorney Mary Keenan, who has supported the Atlanta court's ruling regarding the intruder theory, said Tuesday's airing of the tape did not surprise her.

She also said it would not compromise her office's investigation into JonBenet's murder. Keenan, however, refused to release the tape to the Camera, which repeatedly has requested a copy from police and prosecutors.

Wood filed a request for the recording in March as part of the proceedings in the Atlanta federal court case ? a lawsuit against the Ramseys by Robert Christian Wolf. Wolf sued for libel after the couple named him as a suspect in their daughter's death.

"I think the public ought to be allowed to hear the truth about what is and what is not on that tape," Wood said at the time.

In 1998, two years after JonBenet's death, sources close to the case leaked information that the voice of JonBenet's brother, Burke, could be heard on an audio-enhanced copy of Patsy Ramsey's 911 call. They said that meant the boy was awake when his mother made the call, which conflicted with the Ramseys' consistent statements to investigators that Burke was asleep until 7 a.m. ? after police arrived at their home.

Former lead detective Steve Thomas wrote in his book "JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation" that Patsy Ramsey mistakenly thought she had hung up the telephone after the call and Burke's voice could be heard in the background, asking his parents: "What did you find?" John Ramsey, he wrote, could be heard shouting to Burke, "We're not talking to you," and Patsy shouted, "Help me, Jesus. Help me, Jesus."

While the Ramseys later agreed that Burke was awake at the time of the call, they have maintained he was in a different room and could not have been heard on the recording.

NBC reported Tuesday it had two audio companies conduct analyses of the tapes and no additional conversations were heard. The network said the findings support the conclusion of an FBI analysis of the tape.

At one point during the call, the 911 operator asks Patsy: "Do you know how long she's been gone?"

"No I don't. Please, we just got up and she's not here. Oh my God, please," Patsy pleads.

"... Please. Hurry. Hurry. Hurry," she says

"Patsy? Patsy? Patsy? Patsy?" the operator asks.

Then the recording of the tape aired Tuesday ends.

Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner said Tuesday he would not discuss the contents of the 911 tape, especially since the investigation has been turned over to the District Attorney's Office.

"I don't want to get in a public debate about what's evidence and what's not. We haven't done that in the past and we're not going to start now," Beckner said.


Old Post 08-05-2004 06:28 PM
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post #116  quote:

I haVE AN APPOINTMENT TODAY SO i WON'T BE BACK UNTIL TONIGHT.

lata,

dELTA


Old Post 08-05-2004 06:30 PM
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post #117  quote:

Im still looking for Burke's reaction...I, too, am having problems finding anything....but Ill be looking around.

Old Post 08-05-2004 06:48 PM
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post #118  quote:

OK, so John and Pasty lied and said Burke was still sleeping when she made the call but then they thought that they got caught in a lie and changed their story. I don't want to sell them short here by yelling cover up to soon. lol Is it possible for them to be so distraught that they really didn't even know if he was sleeping or awake? Nope, that doesn't wash because what would be a mothers first reaction after reading the note? To check her KIDS! Both of them. Surely she would know if she saw Burke sleeping or awake. If that were me i would have grabbed the only kid i had left and not let him out of my site at that point. Does anyone know how much time went by from the time that Patsy made that call until the time police arrived? Was that enough time for them to figure things out with Burke and discover the horrible truth in their basement? Somehow i feel like the Ramseys must have figured this out before the police arrived because John Ramsey went directly to that adjacent room in the basement. Why else would he go to there? Why didn't he go to the attic? Or any other rooms in the house first? He left the room he was in and went DIRECTLY to that room. Way to suspicious. John and Patsy did not kill that child i know that in my heart. So who else was in that house at the time that John and Patsy were able to fit the pieces together in order for John to go directly to that room? (((BURKE))) ??? And their first clue? That note with all of the familiar phrases on it. Dear Jesus is right if John and Patsy have to live with this lie for the rest of their lives.

Old Post 08-05-2004 10:46 PM
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post #119  quote:

quote:
mbenz2001 said this in post #118 :
Is it possible for them to be so distraught that they really didn't even know if he was sleeping or awake? Nope, that doesn't wash because what would be a mothers first reaction after reading the note? To check her KIDS! Both of them. Surely she would know if she saw Burke sleeping or awake. If that were me i would have grabbed the only kid i had left and not let him out of my site at that point.


ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!

I have another issue.....

Does anyone wonder why it took them 7 hours to find her?? I know it seems odd that they would automatically check the basement...but wouldnt that be one place you would go before 7 hours go by?? It just seems wierd to wait 7 hours before going downstairs...and another thing that irritates me is that John Ramsey totally contaminated the crime scene. Wasnt he told NOT to walk around, and yet he did. When he found her, he moved her, he took tape off her mouth, etc...

Which brings up another odd thing...if she had tape on her mouth, but the lab didnt find any tape glue on her mouth...how could he have done that?

Hmm..


Old Post 08-05-2004 10:58 PM
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post #120  quote:

Technically it took them seven hours to find her. In my theory, they found her way before then and started staging the evidence with her lying on that basement floor, all the while knowing exactly where she was and waiting for the opportunity to discover her body with witnesses present. It must have tortured John and Patsy knowing there daughter was lying dead in the basement as the hours ticked by. IMO thats why they look so guilty, they didn't kill that little girl. They just contaminated most of the evidence so the real killer would never be known by the Police or by the general public. Would i do what they did to protect the only child that they had left? Maybe? Luckily i was never presented with such a horrific situation.

Old Post 08-06-2004 03:53 PM
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