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fair one
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post #91  quote:

Dear Raven 200,

Sorry for the dodgy link- I've been trying to cut and paste articles to post on here, but havnt been able to do it. Could you tell me how you do it?


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post #92  quote:

It should work when you cut and paste a link onto the post!!

Just cut and past the link from the address bar, and it should then work!!!


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post #93  quote:

Thanks Raven

Here's the link referring to my first question:

www.islamonline.net/fatwa/english/fatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwalD=46067

bye for now


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post #94  quote:

Sorry "fair one" but it's still not working

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post #95  quote:

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong- anyway if you google 'Islam's stance on the testimony of women'- you will then find it as the first one on the list- the link will say islam online.

failing that-I think I'll give up


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post #96  quote:

http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/en...?hFatwalD=46067

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post #97  quote:

I hope the link works now, I have found it fair one!

http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/en...?hFatwaID=46067

The answer in the link is absolutely correct Fair one, and no where does it say that a women cannot testify.
One should read the whole answer to understand it better.
Though I have found nothing of what you were saying in your post that a women is not allowed to testify in this article!!!

Strange that you would have thought that!!!


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post #98  quote:

Can you tell me about Mohammed's miracles?

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post #99  quote:

I hope you can download acrobat pdf, quickly because the next Link I am to give to you Logan is also a PDF file, alot of files on the internet are PDF format, because of security reasons this format is quite commonly used!!

Any way the link is on the Life of the HOLY Prophet, why not read up about his whole life and see what he accomplished.

In relation to miracles, Like for Jesus it was God who granted the Holy prophets prayers and made miracles happen.

I'm sure when you read of his life, things will be much more clearer to you, here is the link:

http://www.alislam.org/holyprophet/...et_muhammad.pdf


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post #100  quote:

Dear Raven 200

Thanks for correcting the link for me

Could I draw your attention to the following paragraph in that article-

'The Quran makes the testimony of man equal to the testimony of two women. Moreover, the majority of Jurists maintain that a woman's testimony does not count in major crimes and in matters which do not relate to the rule of retaliation in kind.'

Now I know that Jamal Badawi seems to differ from that opinion, but what worries me is that Qaradawi is saying 'The majority of Jurists.'


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post #101  quote:

I have read of the Prophet's life and do not recall him acting miracles, could you jus discribe one for me here. The article is very long (33 pages), maybe direct me to a page where Mohammed creates a miracle?

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post #102  quote:

The Miracles of the Holy prophet are as I said, what God bestowed upon him, a man is not a creator of miracles but God is only who can create!!

I know you will compare this to Jesus creating Miracles, but what Jesus did and the manner he did so was by praying to God, if he cured the lepers he did so by praying to God. Only God can grant a miracle!!

I shall give you a few links in relation to miracles of the Holy Prophet:

http://anwary-islam.com/prophet-life/holly-p-17.htm
http://www.alislam.org/library/pm-bl.html

From the links I can tell you his whole life was a great Miracle, how a boy born amidst the arabs who lived like animals, was so pure and clean.
He was always in submission to God even whilst he had all that is evil around him trying to manipulate him to become one of them.

It is a Miracle how for 13 years he survived extreme pain and hardship, and yet he still showed forever love towards his creator.
No other prophet has ever gone through this much hardship for God.

the prophet Jesus (pbuh) spent a few hours of hardship at the hands of the Jews, but the prophet Mohammad (pbuh) spent half his life in hardship and difficulty and yet came through more stronger.

The miracles you look for, the cure of the ill, the shudder of the Earth, all this was also given to him when he prayed to God.


Heres some quotes from the Quran:

[105:2] Knowest thou not how thy Lord dealt with the Owners of the Elephant?
[105:3] Did He not cause their design to miscarry?
[105:4] And He sent against them swarm of birds,
[105:5] Which ate their dead bodies, striking them against stones of clay.
[105:6] And thus made them like broken straw, eaten up.


Therefore when thier came the need for a miracle to assist the Holy prophet thier appeared many!!
These Miracles come and go but the real Miracle is everlasting and that is The Quran sent by God, not a word of it can be changed, and not a word of it can be created in the same manner!!

A magician can also perform miracles, but they are mere magic tricks!! Therefore a Miracle is not always a way of finding a devine man of God, but it is the way he lives his life that is the real Evidence on his truthfullness and divinity from God!!


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post #103  quote:

HI Fair one,
in relation to Qaradawi ,he has been getting a lot of unnecassery publicity in the press in the UK past few days, I personally have not heard of him before, he is quite popular in the middle east.

I think he has been brought into the country to turn the attention away from the government and back onto terrorism so that blair can save his backside once again as the buttler report will be coming out soon, the Americans have already been damned in thier report about their intelligence on Iraq and the WOMD, now its britains turn, but they use Qardawi as a clever ploy to turn attention away.

Anyway in relation Qardawi's views, He has been publicised by the media as an extremist, I have seen reports on him but i have not read any of his work myself, therefore I cannot make a judgment on his views unless I do so!
I don't always believe what the media portrays about people and things as it often has a bias view.

When he says majority of Jurists, I beleive the article goes onto explain this is becuase of the emotional behaviour of women in such matters and how they need to be protected against such matters.
Giving evidence against a mafia boss who kills hundreds is hard enough for a man let alone think of how a women would feel, this I give as an example!!

Anyway overall it is not forbidden for women to testify. As I have explained before from quotes from the Quran..


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Talking post #104  quote:

I wonder what would happen If America started treating Islamic group in Cuba with the same they have treated innocent Christian people, eccept instead of just cutting their heads of let them eat pigs feet for the rest of thier stay. Sorry you all I had to say this because I hate torrorist.

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post #105  quote:

Raven,
for someone who claims to be atheist you sure know alot about Islam, maybe you want to believe in something but you are confused and don't know who is right or who is wrong, so mean while I guess that is why you call yourself an atheist for now.
So which one do you like better Christianity or Islam? Or do you still believe that we came from Apes? No harm intended I was just wondering because you seem like a very smart person.http://www.ccel.org/wwsb/


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post #106  quote:

loganc I'd just like to say, how ever many problems I have with Islam, the fact that Mohammed couldn't do miracles doesnt really mean much because in Judaism our Messiah won't be able to do miracles either.

HOWEVER he will have to show certain signs he is the Messiah, e.g. rebuild the third temple and ensure world peace.

The fact Mo doesn't do miracles perhaps shows that he wasn't a prophet, and if he claimed to have done miracles it would be false so he'd have no witnesses etc...


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post #107  quote:

AZ, I agree.

I only asked this because Brown_Suga said he prefomed miracles.

I was just showing her that Raven agrees with me on this one, and he is Muslim as well.


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post #108  quote:

Lol I am not an athiest and I never said I was Joline --- I am a complete Muslim!!

God forbid I ever became an Athiest!!

Lol I don't know what gave you that idea, in none of my posts have I ever said I am an athiest!!!


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post #109  quote:

Yes Logan all Miracles happen through God, only God can allow a Miracle to take place, and this was the same for Jesus, he prayed for Miracles to happen, to God his creator!!!

I have given a simple and straightfoward answer in relation to Miracles that happened with the Holy Porphet I even gave a quote from the Quran, telling us of the time when the Abysinnians attacked the Holy Prophet in order to destroy the kabbah with Elephants, God sent a great swarm of birds that came and threw stones at the elephants and its owners, who were destroyed.

Was this not a miracle, that for the aid of his prophet God did such a thing!!

Another miracle which God created at the hands of the Holy prophet:

A Miracle of the Prophet (peace be upon him)

On the same route the Prophet (peace be upon him) passed by the house of a women (Umm Ma'bad bint Kkahlid), where he stopped for a while. Her sheep was dry, but, as soon as the Prophet (peace be upon him) touched its udders, these were filled with milk, He himself and his companions drank the milk, but this blessing continued even after that. On his departure, the husband of Umm Ma'bad turned up and was surprised to see this strange occurrence about the milk if their sheep. On his enquiry he was told by Umm Ma'bad that a noblest and kindest young man was their guest for a while that very day and all this happened with the blessing of his hand. When her husband heard it, he said, "By God ! He seems to be the same saint from Mecca. According to a version, both of them migrated thereafter and on reaching Medina they embraced Islam.

God can do great wonders for the sake of his true men, and especially for his prophets...

Though what I emphasized before was, it is not miracles that should always make you believe in the divinity of the prophets of God, but how they lived thier lives.

I gave the example of the magicians, therefore people can be tricked by magicians into believing that they are doing wonders, where they are merely performing tricks!!

If you then look at how a magician lives his life you would know if he is really from God or not!!
I mean a magician does his trick fools people, gets money from them, then goes out and intoxicates himself and finds women to sleep with!!
Would him doing a great miracle make you think he is a man of God ---- NO!!

But if a man spends his whole life in the submission of the one God then that is more then enough evidence that he is a man of God!!!


Last edited by raven200 on 07-10-2004 at 01:29 PM |
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post #110  quote:

Okay here we can agree:
RAven Said:

Though what I emphasized before was, it is not miracles that should always make you believe in the divinity of the prophets of God, but how they lived thier lives.

Reading about Mohammed and his life he was always in struggle, he was at war often and had more than one wife. To me, it seems as though Mohammed was a man often at war. Is this not true?


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post #111  quote:

Logan you know about the reasons for war!!!
They were for self defence for the saving of the faith from enialation!!

It seems to me your concentrating on violence only Logan!!
Why is that, you say you are reading the Quran, but you have not read all of it yet!!! How can you be sure the book only promotes war and violence and that the Holy prophet did so to???

I gave you a link before about the life of the Holy Prophet in a previous Post here I'm sure you did'nt read it all, as you were looking for information on miracles only.

If you can read it all, and you will understand.


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post #112  quote:

Raven you are giving my posts more words, and my mind thoughts.

I have not said the Qu'ran is violence.

I am asking questions to understand, please do not judge me, I am here to understand. If I wanted to believe that Qu'ran=hatred I would not ask questions, however I do ask questions.

Please understand this. I ask about the violent parts because I WANT to understand them. I do see the peaceful aspects and they are clear and need not to be asked of you to explain them.

You judge me so much Raven. I have taken Religious Studies classes, I have Muslim friends, I have read the life of Mohammed, I have read the Qu'ran before and am no re-reading the Qu'ran. I am asking to understand not to condemm. I hope that you would help me do this instead of telling me that I only concentrate on violence, when I do not, and that I have not read the Qu'ran, when I have.

When did I say the Qu'ran only promotes war and violence? Never.
YOU GAVE ME THOSE WORDS.

I am disappointed in these last few posts.
I am only looking for understand and help.
Instead you gave me judgement and false claims.


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post #113  quote:

Ok me using the word Only is taken wrongly here, I said so because its mainly this you have been highlighting!!

What else was I to think, I cannot read minds!!

But if you feel I have taken you out of context then I am sorry and I apologise!!!
I have said it in the other thread, I do not mind you asking questions!! It is just somethings are quite easily explained but not your fault or anyone elses fault, but people find them hard to understand!!!

I also should have said re-reading Quran, I know you have read it but with wrong translator!! So sorry about that too!!

I don't give you false claim, I made a remark, now you tell me that this is not correct then I apologise sincerely.
I have always enjoyed debating with you, as I find you very honest in many aspects, and you like to research things before saying anything which I admire!!

So Sorry again!!!


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post #114  quote:

quote:
raven200 said this in post #108 :
Lol I am not an athiest and I never said I was Joline --- I am a complete Muslim!!

God forbid I ever became an Athiest!!

Lol I don't know what gave you that idea, in none of my posts have I ever said I am an athiest!!!



I'm Sorry Raven I missunderstude you


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post #115  quote:

Thats no problem Joline!! Everyone seems to be apologising in this thread lol!!!

I think we should dedecate thread just for apologising!!!

Lets call it "I'm sorry I misunderstood you" thread!!!

Hey you don't need to apologise to me for an honest mistake Joline...


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post #116  quote:

Sounds Good.
I will keep the questions coming.
Here are a few to start:

1. Why is the Qu'ran ordered in chapters longest to shortest and not chronologically?

2. (this one isnt from my studies but just somethings I heard) is there some passages in the Qu'ran that have unknown meanings and are thought to be a secret message from God?

Logan.


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post #117  quote:

Here is a link for you Logan, which explain how the Quran was put together!!


http://www.quran.net/quran/PreservationOfTheQuran.htm

Muslims do not try and make out secrets from unknown meanings in the Quran. Like the one you were talking about in the Torah about the bible code!!

The Quran is a very indepth book, the wording in it is very clear, and one has to seek the deepest understanding and knowledge in ones mind to understand the correct meaning of the verses.

This is why non-muslims find some verses in the Quran difficult to understand, becuase they cannot grasp the language used and also find the order the Quran is arranged in as something very different to what they are used to!!

The Quran does not make religion difficult for mankind, it explains the beauty of what is right and what is wrong, and gives many examples to make things easier to understand!!!

Their is knowledge of the past and the future within the Quran, but one has to first look at every verse in great detail to find this information, as even a single verse in the Quran has so much in depth information within it that one has to ponder over it again and again and then realise what it is talking of!!

When people begin to take litral meaning of everything, even things that are given as an example, it merely means they cannot grasp the depth and the knowledge within the Quran, all they see is what is written, they do not see the meaning or what is being tried to made clear to the reader!!!


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post #118  quote:

Also I should add not just non-muslims, but even many muslims find it difficult to grasp the language used in the Quran, and many muslims do make incorrect interpretations of the Quran as well!!!!
These are normally the muslims who don't practice the faith properly and only take into consideration what suits them and ignore what does not suit them.

I beleive people like this exist in all religions and in all walks of life..


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post #119  quote:

Okay,
I had just heard that there were a few lines that had unknown meanings and were thought to be reveled at a later date by God? Like the words didn't makes sense in arabic, and they are thought to be understood later??


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post #120  quote:

Question 3:

Is there any copies of the first transcribers work, like on the leaves and stones?

Question 4:

Women has similar rights in Islamic Law, however they are considered to be below men in status, is this correct?


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