Chat or Talk in the INReview Discussion Forum Chat or Talk in the INReview Discussion Forum
 
register chat members links refer search home
INReview INReview > The Scuttlebutt Lounge > Philosophy & Religion > about Islam?
Search this Thread:
Pages (8): « 12 [3] 45 » Last »   Print Version | Email Page | Bookmark | Subscribe to Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread   
Staff
Sierradaddy
Days of Future Past...

offline
Registered: May 2003
Local time: 04:24 AM
Location: Somewhere in Time...
Posts: 3901

post #61  quote:

I don't know, right now Islam is under such terrible scrutiny, with such strong bias against it after 9/11, it's hard to hear any good things about it. EVERY religion has SOME redeeming quality about it, otherwise no one would be a part of it because it wouldn't be appealing to anyone.

Over a billion people can't be TOTALLY wrong, and I don't think it's fair to count ALL of Islam among those few who are radical zealots and think that suicide attacks are somehow glorious. Man, that's some DEEP-penetrating brainwashing...

It's kinda like how the blame was attempted to be placed upon the Seventh-Day Adventist church for the Waco incident, because David Koresh was AT ONE TIME a member of an SDA church. The denomination isn't accountable for the actions of one of its past members, and neither is Islam responsible for the radicals who twist and aggressively try to actualize only a small portion of what the religion speaks about.


Old Post 06-06-2004 03:47 PM
Click here to Send Sierradaddy a Private Message Find more posts by Sierradaddy Add Sierradaddy to your buddy list Sierradaddy's MSN ID is smoothline98@hotmail.com Reply w/Quote

Staff
Dekka00
Administrator

offline
Registered: Sep 2003
Local time: 05:24 AM
Location: Virginia
Posts: 11592

post #62  quote:

I agree with that, I'm not saying that the terrorists are a good representative of Islam, definitely some brain-washing and twisting going on in that department.

But look at Islam in and of itself. Forget 9/11. Forget the Middle East. Forget America.

I'm not saying Muslims are bad people. I'm not saying they are all terrorists. I'm saying the quotes from the Islamic scriptures do not preach tolerance and peace. I don't like to say it, but it seems to be the case.


Old Post 06-06-2004 03:54 PM
Click here to Send Dekka00 a Private Message View Dekka00's Journal Visit Dekka00's homepage! Find more posts by Dekka00 Add Dekka00 to your buddy list Reply w/Quote

TWBR
In the Now Guru

offline
Registered: Feb 2004
Local time: 05:24 AM
Location: USA
Posts: 1972

post #63  quote:

Let me ask you a question, have you read the whole Quran?

If not then its not really fair to say that the Islamic verses do not preach tolerance and peace.

I see how the kill infidels verses have turned you guys agaisnt Islam, but could they be for self-defense?

In Islamic schools, they teach us that the only reason to kill is for self-defense.

Why dont i look for verses that do preach tolerance and peace?


Old Post 06-06-2004 04:07 PM
Click here to Send TWBR a Private Message Find more posts by TWBR Add TWBR to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore TWBR REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

TWBR
In the Now Guru

offline
Registered: Feb 2004
Local time: 05:24 AM
Location: USA
Posts: 1972

post #64  quote:

One more thing, Islam has over one billion followers, most of them are religious, if it did not preach torelance and peace then why arent most Muslims attacking infidels and non-believers?

From what i can see, the only non-believers that are being killed are in India, the Hindus and Muslims are fighting.


Old Post 06-06-2004 04:11 PM
Click here to Send TWBR a Private Message Find more posts by TWBR Add TWBR to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore TWBR REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

antizionist2004
In the Now Guru

offline
Registered: Nov 2003
Local time: 10:24 AM
Location:
Posts: 1194

post #65  quote:

TWBR you are wrong, the Qur'an is filled with hate and war. Read it properly with an open mind.

It is not in "self-defense." The Qur'an clearly says you must follow Islam, or you will suffer:

Qur?an 4:114: ?He who disobeys the Apostle after guidance has been revealed will burn in Hell.?

Qur?an 4:168: ?Those who reject [Islamic] Faith, Allah will not forgive them nor guide them to any path except the way to Hell, to dwell therein forever. And this to Allah is easy.?

Qur?an 48:13: ?If any believe not in Allah and His Messenger, We have prepared a Blazing Fire for them!?

Qur?an 18:103 ?Say: ?Shall we inform you of who will be the greatest losers? ?Those that reject my Revelations? Hell is their reward, because they rejected Islam, and took my proofs, verses, and lessons, and those of My Messengers by way of jest in mockery.?

Qur?an 3:85: ?If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (Surrender), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who are losers.?

These are just quotes from the Qur'an. If you like, I can post loads more from the Hadith.


Old Post 06-06-2004 04:13 PM
Click here to Send antizionist2004 a Private Message Find more posts by antizionist2004 Add antizionist2004 to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore antizionist2004 REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

devildog
In the Now Guru

offline
Registered: Nov 2003
Local time: 05:24 AM
Location:
Posts: 2814

post #66  quote:

Thanks Dekka, I think. I expected the message to be met with the same attitude that you had about it. I don't believe you are Muslim but you had the desire to search for the truth. Why don't Muslims? It is, after all, their religion. You mentioned schmiggens posting on the subject, and rightfully pointing out that she isn't even a Muslim. Neither am I obviously. Most Muslims have no clue of the words and deeds of their "prophet" and god and this will become increasingly apparent to you as you learn. As will the repetitive lies and excuses trying to justify deplorable actions. A fine example of this is TWBR. He has tried the same excuse several times and each time I have explained why he is wrong. So now again, he pulls out the same old, tired excuse about translations. This is one of the most common excuses and I am tired of addressing it. He knows very well how absolutely ignorant and lame that is. It seems by the actions and deeds of the terrorists today, that they must be reading the same mis translated English versions as I do. Thanks for explaining how you gave Islam the benefit of the doubt and then researched it with an open mind. Very rewarding. This is all it takes( as you already know). Now that you have this knowledge, Dekka, try listening to someone in the future say how wonderful Islam is. How it is peaceful. How Jihad is a spiritual struggle etc. You will have to pipe in with facts. When you do, think about me , because you will be called a liar and hateful person also.

There are a billion followers because if you are born in an arab country, you don't have much of a choice about religion, now do ya? Secondly Terrorist are killing themselves why? To get to Allah's paradise people. Nothing more, nothing less. I say that has a little to do with Islam. Luckily for us, only about 30% of the Islamic faithful are "good" Muslims. So ofcoarse not every Muslim is a bad person. Luckily they are "bad" Muslims. And if you think they have any clue about their own religion, than you are nuts.


Old Post 06-06-2004 04:32 PM
Find more posts by devildog Add devildog to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore devildog REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

TWBR
In the Now Guru

offline
Registered: Feb 2004
Local time: 05:24 AM
Location: USA
Posts: 1972

post #67  quote:

TWBR you are wrong, the Qur'an is filled with hate and war. Read it properly with an open mind.

It is not in "self-defense." The Qur'an clearly says you must follow Islam, or you will suffer:


Qur?an 4:114: ?He who disobeys the Apostle after guidance has been revealed will burn in Hell.?

First of all, if a Muslim does not believe in what Allah has have them "The Quran" they will go to hell, because they arent practicing Islam.

Second of all, you got the numbering wrong, Quran 4:114 goes like this :

An-Nisa (The Women)

Quran 4:114 : In most of their secret talks there is no good: But if one exhorts to a deed of charity or justice or conciliation between men, (Secrecy is permissible): To him who does this, seeking the good pleasure of Allah, We shall soon give a reward of the highest (value).


Qur?an 4:168: ?Those who reject [Islamic] Faith, Allah will not forgive them nor guide them to any path except the way to Hell, to dwell therein forever. And this to Allah is easy.?

Actually the verse goes like this :

4:168 Those who reject Faith and do wrong,- Allah will not forgive them nor guide them to any way-

Again, Allah will not guide those Muslims who do not follow Islam and who SIN to Heaven.


Qur?an 48:13: ?If any believe not in Allah and His Messenger, We have prepared a Blazing Fire for them!?

You got the verse right, this is again for Muslims. Now, Christians and Jews do believe in Allah ( God ) but not Prophet Mohammed, so its very hard to say if they will go to heaven or not.


Qur?an 18:103 ?Say: ?Shall we inform you of who will be the greatest losers? ?Those that reject my Revelations? Hell is their reward, because they rejected Islam, and took my proofs, verses, and lessons, and those of My Messengers by way of jest in mockery.?

First of all, again, its for Muslims who reject Islam, they will go to Hell.

Should those who reject God go to Heaven? Of course not, for God's sake AZ use your brain.

and you got the numbering wrong again, it goes like this :

18:103 Say: "Shall we tell you of those who lose most in respect of their deeds?-


Qur?an 3:85: ?If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (Surrender), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who are losers.?

Now here, is it talking about those Muslims who reject Islam and desire another religion? Maybe.


These are just quotes from the Qur'an. If you like, I can post loads more from the Hadith.

I as a Muslim do know what the Hadiths are, im going to ask, and when i find out, you can bring them, for now, hold on to them.


Old Post 06-06-2004 04:33 PM
Click here to Send TWBR a Private Message Find more posts by TWBR Add TWBR to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore TWBR REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

devildog
In the Now Guru

offline
Registered: Nov 2003
Local time: 05:24 AM
Location:
Posts: 2814

post #68  quote:

quote:
TWBR said this in post #63 :
Let me ask you a question, have you read the whole Quran?

If not then its not really fair to say that the Islamic verses do not preach tolerance and peace.

I see how the kill infidels verses have turned you guys agaisnt Islam, but could they be for self-defense?

In Islamic schools, they teach us that the only reason to kill is for self-defense.

Why dont i look for verses that do preach tolerance and peace?


OF COARSE that is what they teach you.If you would read the Hadiths so you could actually understand the Quran, you would know that Mo didn't act in self defense. All reports conclude that he Killed first, plundered first, raped first, tortured first and enslaved first. In fact, only two times can I find anything other than what I just mentioned. So of the 75 terrorists raids that Mo went on in the Qu'ran, at least 73 of them are unprovoked. Prove this wrong TWBR!!

You can read the Qu'ran all day long. You will NEVER understand it without Ishaq, Tabari ,Bukhari and Muslim. It MUST be put into context TW! You can read one surah and the next one has nothing to do with the one before. Different time,place and people.
You go ahead and look for those nurturing verses. I promise that I can find at least 200 to 1 against it. And make sure you understand the circumstances of the message and whether it was one that was " borrowed" from the Jews.


Old Post 06-06-2004 04:45 PM
Find more posts by devildog Add devildog to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore devildog REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

devildog
In the Now Guru

offline
Registered: Nov 2003
Local time: 05:24 AM
Location:
Posts: 2814

post #69  quote:

TWBR,
OK
You just said that you don't know what the Hadiths are. Do not ever tell someone what Mo or Allah "meant" when a Qu'ranic verse was revealed again. You have admitted to knowing absolutely zero about Islam. The good news is this; Many Muslims have the same view as you do AFTER reading the Hadiths. You still have a chance.


Old Post 06-06-2004 04:51 PM
Find more posts by devildog Add devildog to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore devildog REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

TWBR
In the Now Guru

offline
Registered: Feb 2004
Local time: 05:24 AM
Location: USA
Posts: 1972

post #70  quote:

Oh please, its just a matter of understanding, you dont have to be a Muslim to understand the verses, i can do whatever i want aslong as im defending my religion.

Old Post 06-06-2004 05:05 PM
Click here to Send TWBR a Private Message Find more posts by TWBR Add TWBR to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore TWBR REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

antizionist2004
In the Now Guru

offline
Registered: Nov 2003
Local time: 10:24 AM
Location:
Posts: 1194

post #71  quote:

TWBR, these are from the Hadith:

Bukhari V4B52N260: ?The Prophet said, ?If a Muslim discards his religion, kill him.??

Bukhari V9B84N59: ?Allah?s Apostle said, ?I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: ?None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.? Whoever says this will save his property and his life from me.?

Ishaq 322: ?Allah said, ?Do not turn away from Muhammad when he is speaking to you. Do not contradict his orders. And do not be a hypocrite, one who pretends to be obedient to him and then disobeys him. Those who do so will receive my vengeance. You must respond to the Apostle when he summons you to war.?

Bukhari V9B92N384: ?Allah?s Apostle said, ?Whoever obeys me will enter Paradise, and whoever disobeys me will not.??

Ishaq 363: ?Say to those who do not believe you: ?You will be vanquished and gathered into Hell, an evil resting place.?


Old Post 06-06-2004 05:11 PM
Click here to Send antizionist2004 a Private Message Find more posts by antizionist2004 Add antizionist2004 to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore antizionist2004 REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

devildog
In the Now Guru

offline
Registered: Nov 2003
Local time: 05:24 AM
Location:
Posts: 2814

post #72  quote:

Yeah but you have to read the hadiths before you would know that the first revelation is tucked toward the back of the book in "chapter" 96. Likewise, the last one was in the fifth surah. Until you figure out the order, you will have no concept of its meaning. It is just an angry rage as Dekka accurately described. It is when you do this that it begins to make sense. You will understand that Mo's god was nameless at first, then "lord" was used( wonder why), then it is Ar Rahman, and finally Allah. After Allah was adopted so to speak, we never hear of the others again. So keep thinking that you understand it.

Old Post 06-06-2004 05:12 PM
Find more posts by devildog Add devildog to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore devildog REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

TWBR
In the Now Guru

offline
Registered: Feb 2004
Local time: 05:24 AM
Location: USA
Posts: 1972

post #73  quote:

Ok, AZ, i will research those hadiths and i will come with a response, looking at the first one, it doesnt look pretty.

Old Post 06-06-2004 08:04 PM
Click here to Send TWBR a Private Message Find more posts by TWBR Add TWBR to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore TWBR REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

antizionist2004
In the Now Guru

offline
Registered: Nov 2003
Local time: 10:24 AM
Location:
Posts: 1194

post #74  quote:

Lol I don't suppose it does.

Old Post 06-06-2004 08:06 PM
Click here to Send antizionist2004 a Private Message Find more posts by antizionist2004 Add antizionist2004 to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore antizionist2004 REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

loganc
Veteran

offline
Registered: Apr 2004
Local time: 02:24 AM
Location: Canada
Posts: 339

post #75  quote:

TWBR, I want to thank you for staying and debating.

I think we all, yes even devildogg, appreicaite your responses.

It is all good debate.

Thanks.


Old Post 06-07-2004 06:03 AM
Click here to Send loganc a Private Message Visit loganc's homepage! Find more posts by loganc Add loganc to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore loganc REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

raven200
Mastermind

offline
Registered: May 2004
Local time: 10:24 AM
Location: uk
Posts: 545

post #76  quote:

Tell them truthfully:

Islam does not promote suicide of anysort.
Islam does not promote attack on innocent peaceful people.
Islam does give muslims the right to defend themselves, only when attacked.
Islam informs us to believe all the Prophets and thier Books.
Islam promotes worship of one God and one God only.

We muslims do not wish to come across as war loving killers.
It is far from the truth ----- What goes on in Palastine or in afghanistan is not to do with religion, it is to do with land and persecution.

People in palastine kill themselves as suicide bombers, not because Islam says so, its because they have nothing left to live for, their families have been killed thier houses demolished and thier land taken.

Afghanistan is full of uneducated people, they do not practice the correct Islam, I mean if you think of it the country only survives because of its Heroin plants.
The same Heroin that Western countries buy off them in large quantities.
The afghani's were used by the American's to fight the russians in the cold war, they were provided with weaponary to destroy russian fighters. This was nothing to do with Islam it was to do with Politics and the uneducated Afghani's were used in this by the Americans.

If you think about it, all this warfare in the world could be resolved by the American's but they do not wish to do so, They support the Israelis in destroying arab homes, they went and destroyed afghanistan in the Hunt for the ever invisible Osama bin laden. They went and destroyed Iraq for the sake of the invisible weapons of Mass destruction. What is so peaceful that the American nation has done ---- nothing as yet.

America is a Christian country and your president is a Christian man. Never before so much blood has been spilt for the sake of peace!!
What Peace I ask you, at present if you think about it all the world is at war, conflicts are taking place in every continent, and the greatest Super Power in the History of mankind does nothing to stop this, but accomodates it so it can sell more weapons to these poor countries. All America is about is materialistic gains.

Islam has grown rapidly over the eastern hemisphere of our planet, why is this so ---- this is because Islam promotes fairness and love for one another, the eastern hemisphere is poor many millions are suffering, and what do they see hope in ---- Yes they accept ISLAM!!
Even in the western hemisphere many millions are slowly starting to except this faith, not because the are forced to do so, but because it shows them the true God and what God expects from us


Old Post 06-07-2004 12:05 PM
Click here to Send raven200 a Private Message Find more posts by raven200 Add raven200 to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore raven200 REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

raven200
Mastermind

offline
Registered: May 2004
Local time: 10:24 AM
Location: uk
Posts: 545

post #77  quote:

If you people would like to see many of the responses and evidence in relation to the lies Devildog is spreading about Islam.

Much of his absalutely baseless arguments have been answered in the thread
"Jesus in india" in the Philosophy and religion forum.

You can see how devildog persists in lying even when he has been proven wrong in that thread.


Old Post 06-07-2004 12:16 PM
Click here to Send raven200 a Private Message Find more posts by raven200 Add raven200 to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore raven200 REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

devildog
In the Now Guru

offline
Registered: Nov 2003
Local time: 05:24 AM
Location:
Posts: 2814

post #78  quote:

Please present just one!! Is that too much to ask? Don't send people on a wild goose chase, cut & paste one of my statements and rebutt it using the oldest and most trusted sources of Islam and then you can call me a liar, OK. Until then shut up. And this seems comical coming from you, since post # 76( the one right before this one) is full of lies. Let's pick through it, shall we?

Old Post 06-07-2004 01:39 PM
Find more posts by devildog Add devildog to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore devildog REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

devildog
In the Now Guru

offline
Registered: Nov 2003
Local time: 05:24 AM
Location:
Posts: 2814

post #79  quote:

quote:
raven200 said this in post #76 :
Tell them truthfully:

Islam does not promote suicide of anysort. There is no better deed according to your Prophet
Islam does not promote attack on innocent peaceful people. Absolutely historical.The last thing your Prophet said before taking a dirt nap was "wipe the infidels out til the last"
Islam does give Muslims the right to defend themselves, only when attacked. 73 out of the 75 Terrorist raids that Mo personally went on in the Qu'ran were unprovoked.The other 2 are when the Meccans were tired of the treatment.
Islam informs us to believe all the Prophets and their Books.
The ONLY reason Islam even knows about Prophets are because Mo stole parts of the Bible, plagiarized, and butchered them to give the Qu'ran it's limited religious overtone. Without the Jews giving these to Mo( or selling), what would the Qu'ran be? Why didn't we just translate the Hebrew Bible into Arabic and be done with it, if that's the case?

Islam promotes worship of one God and one God only.
Yeah right. They worship one God but every one of the 5 pillars are Pagan, as I have already proved. And hate to burst your bubble but Allah predates Mo by many generations. It is a stone, my friend. Nothing more. Infact, I can point to you where Ishaq tells us that Allah wasn't even the most important stone. Hubal was. Ever hear of Abd-Allah, or Slave-to-Allah?
Now why would someone name a kid ?Slave-to-Allah? a generation before Islam?s prophet claimed Allah was the creator-god of the universe? The answer is as embarrassing as any in the annals of religious lore. For all Muhammad really did was promote one of the existing Meccan idols, the moon god Allah, above Hubal, Al-Lat, Manat, Al-Uzza, and hundreds of others.


We Muslims do not wish to come across as war loving killers.
It is far from the truth ----- What goes on in Palastine or in afghanistan is not to do with religion, it is to do with land and persecution. Islam has blinded you

People in palastine kill themselves as suicide bombers, not because Islam says so, its because they have nothing left to live for, their families have been killed their houses demolished and their land taken.
Whaaaah. Getting drunk, having 2-72 virgins and a perpetual erection have nothing to do with it, I guess. Tell me if this is true or not. When suicide bombers are buried, they are not cleaned of the infidel blood upon them because Allah will look more favorably upon them with this blood. This I am not 100% positive on but I have heard this. And it is certainly consistent with Islam. The more Infidels that one kills before becoming a martyr, the more virgins they get. BTW, Muslims should not EVER pull the morality card. Look at the paradise that their God has in store for them- Booze & sex.

Afghanistan is full of uneducated people, they do not practice the correct Islam, I mean if you think of it the country only survives because of its Heroin plants. And how do Palestinians survive? Handouts. Muslims are the least free people in the world, regardless of where they dwell.

The afghani's were used by the American's to fight the russians in the cold war, they were provided with weaponary to destroy russian fighters. This was nothing to do with Islam it was to do with Politics and the uneducated Afghani's were used in this by the Americans.

You are so clueless. Who sided with the Russians?

If you think about it, all this warfare in the world could be resolved by the American's but they do not wish to do so, They support the Israelis in destroying arab homes, they went and destroyed afghanistan in the Hunt for the ever invisible Osama bin laden. They went and destroyed Iraq for the sake of the invisible weapons of Mass destruction. What is so peaceful that the American nation has done ---- nothing as yet.

Yeah, Yeah, thats the ticket. It America's fault. Simpleton. Arabs consist of 1 fifth of the population but are responsible for 90% of all wars. Even an intellectually challenged individual like yourself can figure that one out, right?

America is a Christian country and your president is a Christian man. Never before so much blood has been spilt for the sake of peace!! If it weren't for those damn Jews flying the airplanes into the trade center & killing 3000 people.... BTW, this War is almost blood-free if you want to compare it to our other conflicts for freedom.

Islam has grown rapidly over the eastern hemisphere of our planet, why is this so ---- this is because Islam promotes fairness and love for one another show me just ONE surah promoting such

Even in the western hemisphere many millions are slowly starting to except this faith, not because the are forced to do so, but because it shows them the true God and what God expects from us

Sure was a great read if one is into reading about Ravens OPINION. I'M NOT!!!! Why do I have to continually tell you Muslims that I don't want your ignorant opinions? Are you incapable of disputing the facts with the very books you revere? I hope the next time you begin to type, it has some evidence in it. You must be aware that you have not been able to use your scriptures to refute a single thing. Doesn't this tell you something? I repeat: DO NOT write back with " Islam is this or Islam is that........without proof that it is so. Keep your enlightened opinions to islam.com. They love 'em. Here, it is a waste of time. Other than that, great post.


Old Post 06-07-2004 02:51 PM
Find more posts by devildog Add devildog to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore devildog REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

raven200
Mastermind

offline
Registered: May 2004
Local time: 10:24 AM
Location: uk
Posts: 545

post #80  quote:

Devildog the reality of it all is no-one really cares for your opinion, your foul language shows that your one with not much intellectual.

You sow the seed of hate within peoples hearts, keep trying --- you show your
real self everytime, the twisted character that you are.

In relation to your following comment:

"Whaaaah. Getting drunk, having 2-72 virgins and a perpetual erection have nothing to do with it, I guess. Tell me if this is true or not. When suicide bombers are buried, they are not cleaned of the infidel blood upon them because Allah will look more favorably upon them with this blood. This I am not 100% positive on but I have heard this. And it is certainly consistent with Islam. The more Infidels that one kills before becoming a martyr, the more virgins they get. BTW, Muslims should not EVER pull the morality card. Look at the paradise that their God has in store for them- Booze & sex. "

Firstly your ghastly first sentence shows us that your mind if full of nothing but filth. When suicide bombers are killed, firstly thier bodies are blown up into little pieces, thiers nothing thier to wash, if you had commen sense you would have understood, it is still wrong what they do and it is not for the true cause of Islam, it's thier own revenge that they do this.

Also what are you on about, shows how much you really know. We muslims are strictly prohibited from drinking alchahol, we do not drink the stuff, its against our religion, so how are we meant to be drinking it in heaven??
Secondly we don't see paradise as a place where people will be walking about and men will have women that is totally wrong.
Paradise is a place where our souls will go, souls do not correlate with our physical form, therefore you statment about having women does not make sense to us because it is a lie.

I don't know where you get your information from but it is entirely wrong and I say it again to you, it is mininterpreted by you or whoever read it and then made thier own statments about it.

Your lies don't do much damage because millions upon millions know the truth and understand it, keep flying your flag of hate for muslims. It only makes our belief more stronger.

You want us to inform you of the real Islam, and yet when we do you say:

"Why do I have to continually tell you Muslims that I don't want your ignorant opinions?"

Get over your ego trip and come back down to earth before God throws you down with his almighty power.


Last edited by raven200 on 06-07-2004 at 04:34 PM |
Old Post 06-07-2004 04:01 PM
Click here to Send raven200 a Private Message Find more posts by raven200 Add raven200 to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore raven200 REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

devildog
In the Now Guru

offline
Registered: Nov 2003
Local time: 05:24 AM
Location:
Posts: 2814

post #81  quote:

quote:
raven200 said this in post #80 :
Devildog the reality of it all is no-one really cares for your opinion,( My opinion doesn't matter either- I agree with that part) your foul language shows that your one with not much intellectual.

You sow the seed of hate within peoples hearts, keep trying --- you show your
real self every time, the twisted character that you are.
Funny- It seems like you are describing your Prophet with those words. Even though it is your opinion AGAIN, it DOES seem to coincide with those who knew Mo best.
Your lies don't do much damage because millions upon millions know the truth and understand it, keep flying your flag of hate for muslims. It only makes our belief more stronger. The very ignorance you display here is commonplace in the Muslim world, and moreover your unwanting nature of seeking the truth, even when it is placed right under your nose is also common and therein lies the reason for its fellowship. Also, If the truth posted here saves one Muslim from Islam, it is worth it. Does that sound hateful? It takes love to save. BTW it isnt "more stronger"
You want us to inform you of the real Islam NO I do not, and yet when we do you say:



"Why do I have to continually tell you Muslims that I don't want your ignorant opinions?"

I am trying to tell you that your opinion, or mine are worthless!!!! If you want to debate the facts of the oldest sources of Islam, than you must do it with the same. Doesn't this make sense, Raven?

Get over your ego trip and come back down to earth before God throws you down with his almighty power.
I have no ego or fear from God so save it.



Old Post 06-07-2004 04:25 PM
Find more posts by devildog Add devildog to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore devildog REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

Staff
Dekka00
Administrator

offline
Registered: Sep 2003
Local time: 05:24 AM
Location: Virginia
Posts: 11592

post #82  quote:

raven, everytime he says something, you just call him a liar

but never, not even ONCE, have you came back with FACTS


Old Post 06-07-2004 04:30 PM
Click here to Send Dekka00 a Private Message View Dekka00's Journal Visit Dekka00's homepage! Find more posts by Dekka00 Add Dekka00 to your buddy list Reply w/Quote

raven200
Mastermind

offline
Registered: May 2004
Local time: 10:24 AM
Location: uk
Posts: 545

post #83  quote:

If you people would like to see many of the responses and evidence in relation to the lies Devildog is spreading about Islam.

Much of his absalutely baseless arguments have been answered in the thread
"Jesus in india" in the Philosophy and religion forum, starting from page 9.

You can see how devildog persists in lying even when he has been proven wrong in that thread.


Old Post 06-07-2004 04:36 PM
Click here to Send raven200 a Private Message Find more posts by raven200 Add raven200 to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore raven200 REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

raven200
Mastermind

offline
Registered: May 2004
Local time: 10:24 AM
Location: uk
Posts: 545

post #84  quote:

What he says Dekkah are made up stories, he's in lala land ---- he makes his own sayings up and if he does find a correct quote he totally misinterprets it.

You are also lying Dekkah, i Know for a fact you read my posts in the thread
"Jesus in india".

I gave to you and him all the facts about Islam, with evidence and quotes, yet you both seem to have curtains over your eyes.

I'll prove another of his lies to you now. here is his comment from post #81 :

"Ever hear of Abd-Allah, or Slave-to-Allah?
Now why would someone name a kid ?Slave-to-Allah? a generation before Islam?s prophet claimed Allah was the creator-god of the universe?"


What he has done here is totally mis spell the name of a man.
The correct spelling is "Abdullah".
This is an arabic name and has been around before the time of the prophet, by changing the spelling, he's made his own theory up and misinterpreted the whole thing.

Tell me devildog where did you get that name and what are the correct spellings you complete and utter liar.
The following is a brief insight to one of the prophets companion whos name was "Abdullah". Shows the love and affection the prophets followers had for him.
The link has an account from the book Sahih Muslim.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/history...H_AS_SAHMI.html

Now if you have read from the link, I hope you were able to understand the individuals who promote killing and violence was not the prophet but the pagan arabs of that time.
it was "Shirwaih" who killed "Badhan" his father, who promoted lawful the killing of leaders, the capturing of their women and the expropriating of their wealth.

Historical facts such as from the above link have been twisted by people like Devildog and put the blame on the Prophet for such acts. I ask you all to read from the above link and understand how devildog twists things up.

Also you can read more accounts and see how many other arab muslims had the same name "Abdullah" from the following link:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/history...iographies.html

Now I can't help you if you do not wish to understand.
I can make stories up about Christianity and force feed it to you and say it is true.
Though I'm not as pathetic or low as that Devildog.


Last edited by raven200 on 06-07-2004 at 05:22 PM |
Old Post 06-07-2004 04:42 PM
Click here to Send raven200 a Private Message Find more posts by raven200 Add raven200 to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore raven200 REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

devildog
In the Now Guru

offline
Registered: Nov 2003
Local time: 05:24 AM
Location:
Posts: 2814

post #85  quote:

Okay, let me tell you a story from the annals of Islam. Abdul Muttalib, a wealthy pagan worshiper born two generations before Muhammad, was the custodian of the Ka?aba. One day he vowed to the rock gods that if given ten sons, he would sacrifice one to the stones. Bad move, ?cause eventually he had ten. Foolishly faithful to the rocks, he rolled the dice to determine which son would die. His youngest, Abd-Allah lost. Yes, that means slave to Allah. To make this long Pagan story shorter, after consulting with sorcerers he didn't have to do it.You see, Abd-Allah, the boy who was nearly sacrificed?he was Muhammad?s father. You should know this Raven. Abd-Allah, died in Yathrib.

Old Post 06-07-2004 05:20 PM
Find more posts by devildog Add devildog to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore devildog REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

Staff
Dekka00
Administrator

offline
Registered: Sep 2003
Local time: 05:24 AM
Location: Virginia
Posts: 11592

post #86  quote:

your rebuttals

quote:
Well I tell you by god, that whatever is written in that Post does not portray the true Islam, the writer can lie as much as he wishes, because he aims to attract non-muslims. If a muslim was to read that article as I did, he would know instantly that the writer is corrupt and a liar.


quote:
Hadith are the saying of the Holy prophet they are not word of God.
Over the years some hadith have been changed in relation to who the writer was of these.

Okay, we have a Muslim telling a non-Muslim that Hadith are not word of God. I will believe the non-Muslim.

quote:
I can honestly say you are a confused individual. I would discuss facts with you but the sort of foul language you use, I rather not let your foul mouth say the name of the Holy prophet, it is better that way.


quote:
He did not promote terrorism, He as all other prophets loved mankind. Muslim's are only allowed to protect themselves and fight when they are being attacked, and if they wish to fight a war to defend thier people that is not on the same land on which they live, they must move to that land where the war is they cannot fight in the land where thier is no war, or start thier own personal battles, which many muslims do in this day and age ---- This is totally forbidden in Islam.

All well and good, except the Quran seems to say differently. I mean I can understand if you say the terrorists of today are not practicing true Islam, but you cannot argue that it is a peaceful religion (and if you can, please present some facts).

There is argument between you and devildog about Hadiths, Qusayy, and the 5 Pillars, but I don't know enough about it to understand or say anything.

quote:
The Psalms contains a clear reference to it: ?The stone which the builders refused is become the head-stone of the corner.? (Psalms 118:22) Ishmael was looked on as being rejected by God, or so the Israelites believed. Yet it was a progeny of Ishmael that the Last Prophet, ?the head-stone of the corner? was to arise.

Interesting, I'll say that.

...more arguing about that damned stone....

http://www.inreview.com/showthread....d=28#post355305
Okay, there's some evidence
But like devildog said, this only proved that he was hated.
That may or may not mean anything, I mean Jesus was hated too. But from what Devildog has been saying, Mohammed was not a godly man.

well that's enough for now.

I will tell you the impression that I have about Islam:
there have been arguments about who are 'infidels.' Devildog (and people like OBL) seem to think they are Jews and Christians. Other Muslims have argued that Jews and Christians are non-Muslim "believers." When I looked in the Quran, it seemed the Muslims had it right. Infidels and Jews/Christians are different.

HOWEVER... Jew/Christian or pagan, whoever the 'infidels' are, Islam's version of God seems to hate them. He commanded to kill every last one of them.

If those were Mo's words, not God's, then we can just throw out the Quran. And if they were God's words, then it isn't the same God that I know. Yahweh said to wipe the dust off your feet and walk away if people do not welcome you. Not kill them.


Old Post 06-07-2004 05:22 PM
Click here to Send Dekka00 a Private Message View Dekka00's Journal Visit Dekka00's homepage! Find more posts by Dekka00 Add Dekka00 to your buddy list Reply w/Quote

raven200
Mastermind

offline
Registered: May 2004
Local time: 10:24 AM
Location: uk
Posts: 545

post #87  quote:

What he says Dekkah are made up stories, he's in lala land ---- he makes his own sayings up and if he does find a correct quote he totally misinterprets it.

You are also lying Dekkah, i Know for a fact you read my posts in the thread
"Jesus in india".

I gave to you and him all the facts about Islam, with evidence and quotes, yet you both seem to have curtains over your eyes.

I'll prove another of his lies to you now. here is his comment from post #81 :

"Ever hear of Abd-Allah, or Slave-to-Allah?
Now why would someone name a kid ?Slave-to-Allah? a generation before Islam?s prophet claimed Allah was the creator-god of the universe?"


What he has done here is totally mis spell the name of a man.
The correct spelling is "Abdullah".
This is an arabic name and has been around before the time of the prophet, by changing the spelling, he's made his own theory up and misinterpreted the whole thing.

Tell me devildog where did you get that name and what are the correct spellings you complete and utter liar.
The following is a brief insight to one of the prophets companion whos name was "Abdullah". Shows the love and affection the prophets followers had for him.
The link has an account from the book Sahih Muslim.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/history...H_AS_SAHMI.html

Now if you have read from the link, I hope you were able to understand the individuals who promote killing and violence was not the prophet but the pagan arabs of that time.
it was "Shirwaih" who killed "Badhan" his father, who promoted lawful the killing of leaders, the capturing of their women and the expropriating of their wealth.

Historical facts such as from the above link have been twisted by people like Devildog and put the blame on the Prophet for such acts. I ask you all to read from the above link and understand how devildog twists things up.

Also you can read more accounts and see how many other arab muslims had the same name "Abdullah" from the following link:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/history...iographies.html

Now I can't help you if you do not wish to understand.
I can make stories up about Christianity and force feed it to you and say it is true.
Though I'm not as pathetic or low as that Devildog.

The prophets fathers name was "ABDULLAH"
Get the spelling correct you liar devildog.

Allah, pronounced "Allah", the name of the divine supernatural being and creator almighty "God". Equivalencies would be the "Lat" and "El" in Aramaic, "Dieu" in French, "Dios" in Spanish. "YHVH" pronounced "Yahweh", "El" and "Elah"; with its plural form "Elohim" for Hebrews. (The word "El" in Hebrew doctrines can be translated variously as "God" or "Angel", G-d may also be referred to as "Adonai" and "HaShem"). Allah has also over ninety other characteristic-defining names and synonyms from which other names are derived from. Literally any Arabic name that begins with an "Abd" prefix, the concluding suffix is most probably a description name of "Allah"; see Abdul'Karim.

Abdul'Karim ("Servant of the Munificent"),
Analysis of the middle name: (1. Abd), (2. al...), (3. Kar'eam). -- see "Abd" above.

Al-, al-, el- or ul-, Its equivalent in English is "The" adjective. The adjective "el" is also shared and used widely by Latin-based languages such as Spanish. Used before singular or plural nouns and noun phrases that denote particular, specified persons or things.
Karim, pronounced "Kar'eam", transliterated to "Karim" in order to curtail word's length. Its meaning is "Munificent or Generous", one of Allah's almighty other characteristic names listed and called "Al-Asma Al-Husna" meaning "The Graceful Names", which would include in this category the, Munificent, Giving, Charitable, Bountiful, etc.


Even in the Hebrew language the pronounciation for the name of God is similar ---- See Gods name has been around before the time of the prophet.


Last edited by raven200 on 06-07-2004 at 05:39 PM |
Old Post 06-07-2004 05:24 PM
Click here to Send raven200 a Private Message Find more posts by raven200 Add raven200 to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore raven200 REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

Staff
Dekka00
Administrator

offline
Registered: Sep 2003
Local time: 05:24 AM
Location: Virginia
Posts: 11592

post #88  quote:

I agree it is silly for devildog to argue with an Arab about what an Arabic word means (I've seen him do it before)

but I'm talking simply about the quotes from the Quran that he has posted.

tell you what... I will read the Quran, and then we'll see.


Old Post 06-07-2004 05:38 PM
Click here to Send Dekka00 a Private Message View Dekka00's Journal Visit Dekka00's homepage! Find more posts by Dekka00 Add Dekka00 to your buddy list Reply w/Quote

devildog
In the Now Guru

offline
Registered: Nov 2003
Local time: 05:24 AM
Location:
Posts: 2814

post #89  quote:

Sorry to bore many of you but I am posting this because Raven(Muslim) doesn't even know what his prophet says about paradise. One would assume it to be pretty important stuff to know since you are trusting your soul to this lunacy. Good grief!
MUHAMMAD?S PARADISE:

Qur?an 56:8 ?Those of the right hand-how happy will be those of the right hand! ?Who will be honored in the Garden of Bliss;

Qur?an 56:13 ?A multitude of those from among the first, and a few from the latter, (will be) on couch-like thrones woven with gold and precious stones. Reclining, facing each other. Round about them will (serve) boys of perpetual (freshness), of never ending bloom, with goblets, jugs, and cups (filled) with sparkling wine. No aching of the head will they receive{had a hangover before?}, nor suffer any madness, nor exhaustion. And with fruits, any that they may select: and the flesh of fowls, any they may desire. And (there will be) Hur (fair females) with big eyes, lovely and pure, beautiful ones, like unto hidden pearls, well-guarded in their shells. A reward for the deeds.?

Sounds like a brothel to me! That just confirmed everything I have said about this perverts paradise, but here are some more.

Qur?an 56:33 ?Unending, and unforbidden, exalted beds, and maidens incomparable. We have formed them in a distinctive fashion and made them virgins, loving companions matched in age, for the sake of those of the right hand.? [Another translation reads:] ?On couches or thrones raised high. Verily, We have created them (maidens) incomparable: We have formed their maidens as a special creation, and made them to grow a new growth. We made them virgins?pure and undefiled, lovers, matched in age.?

Qur?an 37:40 ?Fruits, Delights; they will be honored in the Gardens of Pleasure, on thrones facing one another. Round them will be passed a cup of pure white wine, delicious to the drinkers, free from ghoul (hurt), nor shall you be made mad or exhausted thereby. And with them will be Qasirat-at-Tarf (virgin females), restraining their glances (desiring none but you), with big, beautiful eyes. As if they were (sheltered) eggs, preserved.?

Qur?an88:12 ?Therein will be a bubbling spring, raised throne-like couches, drinking cups ready placed, cushions set in rows, and rich silken carpets all spread out.?

Bukhari:V4B55N544 ?Allah's Apostle said, ?The first group who will enter Paradise will be glittering like the moon and those who will follow will glitter like the most brilliant star. They will not urinate, relieve nature, spit, or have any nasal secretions. Their combs will be gold and their sweat will smell like musk. Their companions will be houris [virgins]. All of them will look alike and will be sixty cubits (180 feet) tall.??

Qur?an 47:15 ?(Here is) a Parable of the Garden which those who fear and keep their duty are promised: in it are rivers of unpolluted water; rivers of milk which the taste never changes; rivers of wine, a delicious joy to the drinkers; and rivers of running honey pure and clear. In it there are all kinds of fruits with pardon from their Lord.?

Qur?an 76:5 ?As for the righteous, they will drink a cup of wine from a spring, making it gush forth abundantly.?

Qur?an 76:19 ?And round them shall serve immortal boys of perpetual freshness, never altering in age. If you saw them, you would think they were scattered pearls.?

Qur?an 76:21 ?Upon them will be green garments of fine green silk and heavy gold brocade. They will be adorned with bracelets of silver; their Lord will slack their thirst with wine.?

Qur?an 77:41 ?The righteous shall be amidst cool shades, springs, and fruits?all they desire. Eat and drink to your heart?s content.?

Qur?an 78:31 ?Verily for those who follow Us, there will be a fulfillment of your desires: enclosed Gardens, grapevines, voluptuous full-breasted maidens of equal age, and a cup full to the brim of wine. There they never hear vain discourse nor lying?a gift in payment?a reward from your Lord.?

The full breasted part almost even got me

Qur?an 83:22 ?The believers will be in Delightful Bliss: On couch-like thrones, gazing, their thirst will be slaked with pure wine.?

Qur?an 85:11 ?For those who believe and do good deeds will be Gardens; the fulfillment of all desires.?

Bukhari:V4B54N476-544 ?The Prophet said, ?In Paradise they will not urinate, relieve nature, spit, or have any nasal secretions. Everyone will have two virgins who will be so beautiful and transparent the bones of their legs will be seen through their flesh.??

Qur?an 52:17 ?Verily, the Muttaqun (those who fear) will be in Gardens and Delight. Enjoying the (bliss) which their Lord has provided, and their Lord saved them from the torment of the blazing Fire. ?Eat and drink with glee, because of what you used to do.? They will recline (with ease) on Throne Couches (of dignity) arranged in ranks; and We shall join them to beautiful Hur (female maidens) with big, lustrous eyes.?

Qur?an 52:21 ?Those who believe and whose families follow them in Faith, to them shall We join their offspring: Nor shall We deprive them of their works: (Yet) each individual is in pledge for his deeds. [Imagine that. Wives and children will be joined with husbands and fathers who are cavorting with virgins. That ought to be entertaining.] And We shall provide fruit and meat, anything they desire. There they shall pass from hand to hand a (wine) cup free of frivolity, free of all taint of vanity or cause of sin. Round about them will serve, (devoted) to them, young boy servants of their own (handsome) as well-guarded pearls. They will advance to each other, drawing near, engaging in mutual enquiry. They will say: ?We used to be afraid (of the punishment) in the midst of our families, but Allah has been good to us, and has delivered us from the torment of the Scorching Wind and Breath of Fire.?

Qur?an 55:46 ?For him who lives in terror of his Lord are two Gardens containing delights: shade, two fountains flowing, fruits in pairs. Reclining on carpets lined with silk brocade, fruits hanging low. In them virginal females with averted glances (desiring none but you), undeflowered by men or jinn{ devils}. Is the reward of goodness aught but goodness??

Qur?an 55:62 ?And beside this, there are two other Gardens, rich green in color from plentiful watering. In them will be two springs, gushing forth, and fruits. And beautiful companions, virgins cloistered in pavilions, undefiled by men and jinn, reclining on green cushions and rich mattresses. Which of the favors of you Lord will you both deny??

How can you be so foolish about the religion you trust your soul to?


Old Post 06-07-2004 05:44 PM
Find more posts by devildog Add devildog to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore devildog REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote

raven200
Mastermind

offline
Registered: May 2004
Local time: 10:24 AM
Location: uk
Posts: 545

post #90  quote:

If you are to read the Quran Dekkah you should ask a muslim, what each verse really means, thier are many historical facts in the Quran which I have already discussed with Logan such as the killing of idol worshippers, this was in relation to God telling The prophet Mohammed to defend himself from the Idol worshippors when they attack.

Now information such as this cannot be linked to what muslims believe in thier daily lives.

The Quran is a beautifull book and if your goin to read it please try to get the real understanding of it. If you are unsure of something ask a muslim.

Thank you.


Old Post 06-07-2004 05:45 PM
Click here to Send raven200 a Private Message Find more posts by raven200 Add raven200 to your buddy list Click Here to Ignore raven200 REPORT this Post to a ModeratorNOMINATE this Post for Reward Points Reply w/Quote
Time: 10:24 AM Post New Thread   
Pages (8): « 12 [3] 45 » Last »   Print Version | Email Page | Bookmark | Subscribe to Thread
INReview INReview > The Scuttlebutt Lounge > Philosophy & Religion > about Islam?
Search this Thread:
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
Forum Policies Explained
 
Rate This Thread:

< >

Copyright ?2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
Page generated in 0.11140800 seconds (84.11% PHP - 15.89% MySQL) with 38 queries.

ADS

© 2018, INReview.com.   Popular Forums  All Forums   Web Hosting by Psyphire.
INReview.com: Back to Home