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devildog
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post #31  quote:

quote:
schmiggens said this in post #29 :
[QUOTE]devildog said this in post #24 :
Was Mo a terrorist? Yes, he was a terrorist and I can prove it using the most respected Islamic sources. Muslims are terrorizing the world based solely on Muhammad?s words and deeds.

SOME Muslims are terrorizing people based on the words of the Qu'ran. But SOME Christians twist the words of the Bible to terrorise blacks, and gays. Once again, I don't see you championing against these crimes.


Once again, someone must twist, and contort to even try to get Biblical justification for killing Blacks, Gays or anyone for that matter. It just isn't in the Bible. I went through this in great detail. Show me an open ended killing order in the Bible. Now,a Muslim, on the other hand, must twist and contort its Godly writings to NOT be a terrorist.

According to the most venerated Islamic sources, Muhammad routinely brutalized civilians, robbing them, killing thousands, torturing some, raping others, and selling many more into slavery. His motives were political and financial.

A failure as a religious prophet, Muhammad became a political profiteer, pillaging his way to prosperity.

Failure as a prophet? He is their ONLY prophet loved my millions of Muslims and praised as the founder of their faith

He was a failure, as pointed out in the scriptures. He was led out of Mecca in chains after the Satanic Verses. Mo and ALL of his followers were illiterate. They tried to pass off the Garbage to the Jews and was laughed at. Hense, the anger. This is when the violence began toward infidels. After robbing, stealing and selling women and children into slavery, the religion found its financiers. Without forcing people into submission, the dogma would not have survived.

Muhammad?s willingness to lie, cheat, kill, kidnap for ransom, rape, deceive, swindle, and worse are chronicled in painstaking detail throughout the most treasured Islamic traditions.

Up to the age of forty, Muhammad was not known as a statesman, a preacher or an orator. He was never seen discussing the principles of metaphysics, ethics, law, politics, economics or sociology.

But when he came out of the Cave (HIRA) with a new message, he was completely transformed. Is it possible for such a person of the above qualities to turn all of a sudden into 'an impostor' and claim to be the Prophet of Allah and invite all the rage of his people? One might ask: for what reason did he suffer all those hardships? His people offered to accept him as their King and he would leave the preaching of his religion. But he chose to refuse their tempting offers and go on preaching his religion single-handedly in face of all kinds of insults, social boycott and even physical assault by his own people.


His first God was Ar-Rahman( a yemenite God named after athe Persian Devil). He didn't want to acknowledge Allah because, it was just a rock and it couldn't "do anything". Only after offered sex, money and power did he agree to accept Allah and his three daughters as God. Knowing full well that it was Pagan, of coarse. His family was custodians of the pagan rock shrine for years before. In fact, Mo's father was almost sacrificed and was named "slave to Allah". Now, why would someone name their child slave to Allah two generations before Islam's lone Prophet declared Allah as the one and only God.

In Yathrib, today?s Medina, Muhammad became more of a political leader than a religious prophet. He built an economy based upon plunder, and built his ranks by legitimizing booty. Muhammad led his gang on some 20 raids. The Muslim historians call them expeditions. All but one were against civilian targets. At sword point, they sacked villages and caravans.

According to the historians Tabari and Ishaq, his motives were to strike fear into the hearts of Arabs and Jews, intimidate them into submission, and coerce them to relinquish their possessions. Muhammad was a textbook terrorist. He even said so: ?I have been made victorious with terror.?

Read the following writings of the Western authors:

"This man moved not only armies, legislations, empires, peoples and dynasties, but millions of men in one-third of the then inhabited world; and more than that, he moved the altars, the gods, the religions, the ideas, the beliefs and souls. . . his forbearance in victory, his ambition, which was entirely devoted to one idea and in no manner striving for an empire; his endless prayers, his mystic conversations with God, his death and his triumph after death; all these attest not to an imposture but to a firm conviction which gave him the power to restore a dogma. This dogma was twofold, the unity of God and the immateriality of God; the former telling what God is, the latter telling what God is not; the one overthrowing false gods with the sword, the other starting an idea with words."

"Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of ideas, restorer of rational dogmas, of a cult without images; the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?"
Lamartine, HISTOIRE DE LA TURQUIE, Paris, 1854, Vol. II, pp. 276-277.

"He was Caesar and Pope in one; but he was Pope without Pope's pretensions, Caesar without the legions of Caesar: without a standing army, without a bodyguard, without a palace, without a fixed revenue; if ever any man had the right to say that he ruled by the right divine, it was Mohammed, for he had all the power without its instruments and without its supports."
Bosworth Smith, MOHAMMAD AND MOHAMMADANISM, London, 1874, p. 92.

"His readiness to undergo persecutions for his beliefs, the high moral character of the men who believed in him and looked up to him as leader, and the greatness of his ultimate achievement - all argue his fundamental integrity. To suppose Muhammad an impostor raises more problems than it solves. Moreover, none of the great figures of history is so poorly appreciated in the West as Muhammad."
W. Montgomery Watt, MOHAMMAD AT MECCA, Oxford, 1953, p. 52.

"Like almost every major prophet before him, Muhammad fought shy of serving as the transmitter of God's word, sensing his own inadequacy. But the angel commanded "Read." So far as we know, Muhammad was unable to read or write, but he began to dictate those inspired words which would soon revolutionize a large segment of the earth: "There is one God."

"In all things Muhammad was profoundly practical. When his beloved son Ibrahim died, an eclipse occurred, and rumours of God's personal condolence quickly arose. Whereupon Muhammad is said to have announced, "An eclipse is a phenomenon of nature. It is foolish to attribute such things to the death or birth of a human being." "At Muhammad's own death an attempt was made to deify him, but the man who was to become his administrative successor killed the hysteria with one of the noblest speeches in religious history: "If there are any among you who worshipped Muhammad, he is dead. But if it is God you worshipped, He lives forever."
James A. Michener, "ISLAM: THE MISUNDERSTOOD RELIGION," in READER'S DIGEST (American edition), May 1955, pp. 68-70.

ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA confirms:

"....a mass of detail in the early sources show that he was an honest and upright man who had gained the respect and loyalty of others who were like-wise honest and upright men."

MAHATMA GANDHI, speaking on the character of Muhammad, (pbuh) says in (YOUNG INDIA):

"I wanted to know the best of one who holds today's undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind....I became more than convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to this friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the 2nd volume (of the Prophet's biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of the great life."



Why are you showing me this? I don't care about opinions on this subject. If we want to know about Islam and or Mo....we know the oldest and most accurate sources. Why do you care about what this guy or that guy has to say. Lets listen to the ones who knew Mohammad best, shall we?

Listen to these verses from their own scriptures. From the Hadith of al-Bukhari, the Book of Jihad, verse 1204: ?A man asked Allah?s Messenger, ?Guide me to a deed that equals Jihad in reward.? Muhammad replied, ?There is no such deed.?? Incidentally the professor who translated this volume said: ?Jihad is holy fighting in Allah?s cause with maximum force and weaponry. It is the most important part of Islam. By Jihad Islam is established, made superior, and propagated. If Jihad is forsaken, Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position. Their honor is lost and their lands are stolen. Their rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim.? Islam is a war manifesto.

In the linguistic sense, the Arabic word "jihad" means struggling or striving and applies to any effort exerted by anyone. In this sense, a student struggles and strives to get an education and pass course work; an employee strives to fulfill his/her job and maintain good relations with his/her employer; a politician strives to maintain or increase his(1) popularity with his constituents and so on.

In the West, "jihad" is generally translated as "holy war," a usage the media has popularized. According to Islamic teachings, it is unholy to instigate or start war; however, some wars are inevitable and justifiable.

If we translate the words "holy war" back into Arabic, we find "harbun muqaddasatu," or for "the holy war," "al-harbu al-muqaddasatu." We challenge any researcher or scholar to find the meaning of "jihad" as holy war in the Qur'an or authentic Hadith collections or in early Islamic literature. Unfortunately, some Muslim writers and translators of the Qur'an, the Hadith and other Islamic literature translate the term "jihad" as "holy war," due to the influence of centuries-old Western propaganda.

This could be a reflection of the Christian use of the term "Holy War" to refer to the Crusades of a thousand years ago. However, the Arabic words for "war" are "harb" or "qital," which are found in the Qur'an and Hadith.


The crusaders were not christians. They couldn't have been. You have to know of God to be Christians.Where would they have learned about God?
Instead of listening to an Imam tel you what Jihad means, why don't we look at what Islams God defines it as.

Qur?an 2:216 ?Jihad (holy fighting in Allah?s Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims), though you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and like a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knows, and you know not.? [Another translation reads:] ?Warfare is ordained for you.?
Qur?an 4:95 ?Not equal are those believers who sit at home and receive no injurious hurt, and those who strive hard, fighting Jihad in Allah?s Cause with their wealth and lives. Allah has granted a rank higher to those who strive hard, fighting Jihad with their wealth and bodies to those who sit (at home). Unto each has Allah promised good, but He prefers Jihadists who strive hard and fight above those who sit home. He has distinguished his fighters with a huge reward.?
Bukhari:V4B52N44 ?A man came to Allah?s Apostle and said, ?Instruct me as to such a deed as equals Jihad in reward.? He replied, ?I do not find such a deed.??
Bukhari:V1B2N25 ?Allah?s Apostle was asked, ?What is the best deed?? He replied, ?To believe in Allah and His Apostle Muhammad.? The questioner then asked, ?What is the next best in goodness?? He replied, ?To participate in Jihad, religious fighting in Allah's Cause.??

I could give you a thousand more if you like.





From Qur?an, Surah 5:33: ?The punishment for those that attack Allah and His Prophet and perpetrate disorders in the land is to kill or crucify them. Such is their disgrace in this world and in the hereafter, their doom shall be dreadful.?

And Jesus' punishment for challenging the Romans and perpetrating disorder among the people was for him to be crucified. People have been punished in the past for religious matters like this, but to take that ^ seriously is just ridiculous.


Can we stick to Islam please? I will address all these problems you have with Christianity in a different thread. God ordered killing once and it was a specific time, place and people. Even if it was an open ended killing order( it was not), there are no canaanites to slap around any more. I can't believe you are trying to compare the two books.


Continued ....


Old Post 05-07-2004 02:09 PM
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devildog
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post #32  quote:

quote:
schmiggens said this in post #30 :
Was Muhammad a pedophile?
Yes. Muhammad may have been the most evil person to step foot on our troubled planet. Muhammad was much worse than merely a raping, incestuous, terrorist pedophile. Within weeks of the death of his first wife, Khadija, Muhammad went to his best friend and most loyal Muslim comrade, Abu Bekr. Muhammad said he wanted Bekr?s six-year-old daughter ?sexually. The Islamic sources say she was cute and they claim that the Prophet waited until she was 8 or 9 before he consummated the relationship. However, Muhammad was 53. There is a perfectly good word to describe the behavior of a 53-year-old man preying sexually on a 6 to 9-year-old girl.



Let?s try one that?s less violent. Was Muhammad a sexist?
A: The Qur?an says that women are worth half as much as men and that husbands can do whatever they want to their wives. In the Hadith, Muhammad says Hell is filled with women. My favorite example of Muhammad?s sexism is the Satanic Verses. First, Islam?s prophet says that Satan made him say that Allah?s pagan daughters, the idols al-Lat, Manat, and al-Uzza, were Muslim goddesses that could be used as intermediaries. When his followers deserted him in droves, calling the assertion pagan, Muhammad went from the fire to the frying pan. He said that since al-Lat, Manat, and al-Uzza were females, it couldn?t be, because it wasn?t fair for men to have sons and for god to have only daughters.



Again not the only religion to have extremely sexist laws in place, once again, laws that are no longer in force in most of the world.

And once again from me, I don't care. Show me another religion who is Killing people in the name of their God. Then show me where their God ordains, encourages, calls for, and rewards for it.



Old Post 05-07-2004 02:16 PM
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TWBR
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post #33  quote:

Schmiggens sorry for the misunderstanding, i didnt know you were an atheist, but anyway i thank you for helping Islam and lets sit back and laugh at what the guy above me is saying.

Old Post 05-07-2004 10:16 PM
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schmiggens
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post #34  quote:

No apology neccessary TWBR, thanks for your support.

devildog, you have not answered a LOT of my post and that's ok, you answer whatever you want to, but specifically I want to know what religion you are and why you have taken it upon yourself to so enlighten everyone on the pitfalls of Islam. You see pitfalls in every religion, but you seem to have a special vendeta against Islam.

Why are you not exposing the faults in Mormon religion or Raelians, a religion EASY to find fault with, or any other major or alternative religion?


Old Post 05-10-2004 03:29 AM
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devildog
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post #35  quote:

Yahweh is the name of God. It is mentioned 6868 times in the Bible. The reasons are simple Schmiggens. The evidence is unambiguous. The truth is undeniable: today?s terrorists haven?t corrupted their religion. Islam has corrupted them. I don't see Mormons killing non-mormons in the name of their god, schmiggens. Islamic Jihad, Hamas, Fatah, Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, Palestinian Terrorists, Egyptian Terrorists, Saudi's, Syria, Somalia, Afghanistan, Embassy Bombings, the destroyer "Cole", World Trade Center(1), 9-11, 3-11, ....what do they all have in common? This should be reason enough to investigate Islam. I also want Muslims to know what their prophet said and did since the preponderance of Muslims have never read the Sira, Hadiths, or re-order the Quran in the context it was revealed. Therefore, they have NO IDEA what they are following. To get Muslims to reseach their religion can only be beneficial. This is all I ask. Then prove me wrong.

There is a reason that there are no miracles, no prophecies, no innovative inspiration in the Qur'an. There is a reason the Qur'an is a jumbled mess, lacking context and chronology. There is a reason that the Qur'an promotes immoral, violent, and criminal behavior. There is a reason that the Qur'an contains 400 angry rants like the ones directed at me. There is a reason that the Qur'an has 1000 depictions of hell's torments, demons, and punishment. There is a reason the Qur'an orders Muslims to kill and die for Allah. Allah isn't God.

I do not have to degrade Allah because Muhammad does that for me. It's obvious to anyone who reads the Qur'an in the order that it was "revealed" and set into the context of Muhammad's life, that Muhammad created Allah's character and nature in his image. It's obvious that each surah served to justify and facilitate Muhammad's cravings for sex, power, and money.

Allah is powerless because he was little more than a figment of Muhammad's imagination. Allah was a tool Muhammad used to advance his personal agenda. Islam is a fraud. The Qur'an is a hoax. You, and millions have been deceived.

If Allah were God, Muhammad and I would be unable to degrade him. But since I'm able to use Muhammad's Hadith and Qur'an to prove that Allah isn't God; he isn't God. So there is no need to defend him( not directed at you).

If you have a question, ask it. I thought I addressed everything. Sorry


Old Post 05-10-2004 04:47 AM
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post #36  quote:

I know you don't like the "well all religions are like that" response, but in a lot of ways it is true. You could use the Book of Mormon to disprove a lot of it's own content (sorry if it seems I am picking on Mormons, just one example of many, I like Mormons too) you could use just about any religious text and turn it so that it says something it was not meant to say.

I know you will say you are not twisting it, it is there to be read, but to me (again, sorry Mormons) Mormon religion, as written in their Book, says that Joseph Smith was a fraud who made up a religion. That is obviously not what it is meant to say, but that is how I interprett it.

That is my key word. INTERPRET. You interpret all these passages as inciting people to kill in the here and now, I don't think it does that. Show me where it says in the Qu'ran "You must high-jack planes and fly them into the Twin Towers in New York and the Pentagon in Washington and kill millions of innocent people". Of course you can't show me that passage, because what has been done by Islamic Extremists is their interpretation of the words in the Qu'ran only.

You say that Islam corrupts it's followers. I am curious as to whether you actually know any Muslims in the flesh, are they, to your eyes, corrupt people? Do you preach this to them? If you do not view any Muslims that you know as corrupt, then surely that disproves your own statement.

As with every religion, SOME people take it too far. Most Muslims, most Mormons, most Buddhists, most people of any religion, or even people of no religion are "normal" they do not wish to kill and maim people with a different belief system from their own.

I agree that people researching their religion is also a good thing. Personally I had a Muslim friend and we did research on this topic together and he was shocked to find some of the passages and situations, etc you have quoted, but instead of focusing on the bad of Islam, we found the good and he has taken it upon himself to show people the good of Islam, now that he knows more about the bad side of it.

You must be aware of the statement "live and let live". If the majority of Muslims are happy living their lives and following the good side of their religion, what is it to you? You want them to understand the bad side of their religion, but for what purpose? So they all convert to Chritsianity? You think that them understanding the bad side of their religion will stop them from killing? The Extremists will kill no matter what, they don't need relgion behind them, it is just an excuse.

I just really don't understand your motivation behind all this negativity.


Old Post 05-10-2004 06:45 AM
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devildog
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post #37  quote:

quote:
schmiggens said this in post #36 :
I know you don't like the "well all religions are like that" response, but in a lot of ways it is true.

I am unaware of ANY religion that its God calls for the killing of all Jews and Christians. And to wipe them out to the last. And for doing this deed, God rewards them. Show me another religion like this...for the third time.


You could use the Book of Mormon to disprove a lot of it's own content (sorry if it seems I am picking on Mormons, just one example of many, I like Mormons too) you could use just about any religious text and turn it so that it says something it was not meant to say.

Don't care about Mormons. I don't see them killing Non-Mormons

I know you will say you are not twisting it, it is there to be read, but to me (again, sorry Mormons) Mormon religion, as written in their Book, says that Joseph Smith was a fraud who made up a religion. That is obviously not what it is meant to say, but that is how I interprett it.

I take it from the oldest and most trusted sources of Islam. If we don't have it right....no one does. Prove it wrong.

That is my key word. INTERPRET. You interpret all these passages as inciting people to kill in the here and now, I don't think it does that. Show me where it says in the Qu'ran "You must high-jack planes and fly them into the Twin Towers in New York and the Pentagon in Washington and kill millions of innocent people". Of course you can't show me that passage, because what has been done by Islamic Extremists is their interpretation of the words in the Qu'ran only.

It doesn't say fly into the Building, but it does says to kill us with all means available. It says to wipe out the infidels to the last( this was one of the last verses to be revealed). It says they will be made victorious through terror. It says to lie and deceive. To hide and ambush. To conquer until there is one religion. Are you kidding me? Maybe its me, though. Maybe I interpreted the thousands of hateful passages wrong!


As with every religion, SOME people take it too far. Most Muslims, most Mormons, most Buddhists, most people of any religion, or even people of no religion are "normal" they do not wish to kill and maim people with a different belief system from their own.

A "bad" Muslim is defined by Allah. If you are a peaceful Muslim, your God hates you. Calls you the most via of creatures and reserves the hottest places in Hell for you. One must be a bad Muslim in order to be a good person, schmiggens

I agree that people researching their religion is also a good thing. Personally I had a Muslim friend and we did research on this topic together and he was shocked to find some of the passages and situations, etc you have quoted, but instead of focusing on the bad of Islam, we found the good and he has taken it upon himself to show people the good of Islam, now that he knows more about the bad side of it.

So he's a liar?If this person would take the time to learn the dogma , I assure you, they would denounce Islam. Perhaps he should do this before trying to teach ANYTHING about the subject.

You must be aware of the statement "live and let live". If the majority of Muslims are happy living their lives and following the good side of their religion, what is it to you? You want them to understand the bad side of their religion, but for what purpose? So they all convert to Chritsianity? You think that them understanding the bad side of their religion will stop them from killing? The Extremists will kill no matter what, they don't need relgion behind them, it is just an excuse.

Everyone needs to wake up. We are at war. Will killing Bin Laden stop this mess? What did the removal of Hussein do? They are only symptoms of a much more dangerous cancer. This all started when someone here tried to pass off Islam as a peaceful religion. I couldn't let it fly.This ignorance is not only dangerous, schmiggens, it is deadly. Hide your head in the sand if you want. If Muslims would only "live & let live" we wouldn't be speaking. I don't care what people want to worship. If you knew of the atrosities that would happen because of Mein Kampff and Hitler, would you speak of it, or just let people say good things(lies) about it? Islam is worse.

I just really don't understand your motivation behind all this negativity.

Inform




Old Post 05-10-2004 01:40 PM
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post #38  quote:

Well there seems to be no changing your mind devildog, you seem very intent on only concentrating on the bad in Islam. I am sorry you cannot open your eyes and see the good in people.

I'd love it if, when you died, you got to Heaven and Islam was the right religion


Old Post 05-11-2004 02:48 AM
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post #39  quote:

"Christian" Terrorists
Crusaders in the middle ages, Anglican Church's persecution of protestants back in the day, the KKK, the people who bomb abortion clinics

the reason there are Muslim terrorists is because the people who are terrorsists happen to be Muslim. 500 years from now it'll be someone else.


Old Post 05-11-2004 07:18 AM
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devildog
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post #40  quote:

quote:
schmiggens said this in post #38 :
Well there seems to be no changing your mind devildog, you seem very intent on only concentrating on the bad in Islam. I am sorry you cannot open your eyes and see the good in people.

I'd love it if, when you died, you got to Heaven and Islam was the right religion


I would love for someone to prove this wrong, schmiggens. I wish someone could change my mind. But they can't, because I know the medina sirahs and what I have said is 100% true. You want me to find good in the most hateful doctrine ever written. Perhaps you can find the good in Mein Kampf. I can't. Unfortunately, you are unable to see the dangers of a religion calling its followers to kill every Jew and "wipe the Christians out to the last". I , on the other hand, understand the seriousness of this world war. There is no secret about the desires of Islam. They want the world to be one religion. Guess which one. Do you think they plan to achieve this through peaceful means?
Allah is one of several stones at a pagan rock shrine. And since EVERY terrorist yells "Allahuh akbar"( Allah is great) just before they kill innocent people, I doubt your wish will come true. If the subject interests you, please read Ishaq's and Tabari's history. You will learn that the words resemble Satan more than God.


Old Post 05-11-2004 07:26 AM
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post #41  quote:

The KKK or Abortion clinic bombers have NO Biblical justification for killing. It just isn't there. And, the Crusaders were not Christians Dekka.

Old Post 05-11-2004 07:31 AM
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post #42  quote:

quote:
devildog said this in post #41 :
The KKK or Abortion clinic bombers have NO Biblical justification for killing. It just isn't there.


But they think they do have that justification. That's all that matters to them - As long as they believe they are killing for God.

Just as the Islamics who DON'T go around killing think that the killing is NOT part of their religion. They believe that NOT killing is a part of their religion.

Again it is all about an individual's interpretation of their religion's text.


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post #43  quote:

quote:
devildog said this in post #40 :
I would love for someone to prove this wrong, schmiggens. I wish someone could change my mind. But they can't, because I know the medina sirahs and what I have said is 100% true. You want me to find good in the most hateful doctrine ever written. Perhaps you can find the good in Mein Kampf. I can't.

There probably is an ounce of good in Mein Kampf even devildog, even if it only that you should wash your hands before you eat. Obviously I do not condone what Hitler, or Al Qeida, have done. But I do believe there is good in everyone. Even you You just have to be willing to see it.

Unforunately, you cannot see it, you have condemned an entire group of people based on obsolete scripture that 90%+ of the religious followers do not comply with.


Unfortunately, you are unable to see the dangers of a religion calling its followers to kill every Jew and "wipe the Christians out to the last". I , on the other hand, understand the seriousness of this world war.

Of course I see the danger in Islam calling it's followers to kill Jews and Christians I am not a moron.

But you yourself have said that this text has been around for thousands of years. If it has been around that long, why are people only now starting to comply with the instructions? I'll tell you why, because their killing has nothing to do with the Qu'ran or Islam, they are simply using it as their excuse for the killing. As do the KKK when they kill blacks, etc.


There is no secret about the desires of Islam. They want the world to be one religion. Guess which one. Do you think they plan to achieve this through peaceful means?

Personally I think a world-wide religion would be the answer to a lot of problems. 99% of wars around the world throughout time has been over "My Religion is better than yours" type issues. I can't say I see Islam as being the world religion, but I can't see it being any of the other current religions either.

Allah is one of several stones at a pagan rock shrine.

Don't all religions go back to Pagen times? I remember a while back us discussing on this forum the origins of Christianity and they were Pagen too. Maybe you should be bashing the Pagens for starting all this religion mumbo-jumbo devildog.


devildog, I still would like to know what belief system you follow, if any. PM me if you don't want the world to know. I won't tell.


Old Post 05-11-2004 07:56 AM
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devildog
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post #44  quote:

quote:
schmiggens said this in post #42 :


But they think they do have that justification. That's all that matters to them - As long as they believe they are killing for God.

Just as the Islamics who DON'T go around killing think that the killing is NOT part of their religion. They believe that NOT killing is a part of their religion.

They obviously don't know there religion. Islam's very foundation is about killing.
Again it is all about an individual's interpretation of their religion's text.


The Bible does not tell these people to kill doctors giving abortions or Black people. If someone wants to use it as an excuse, they can not give supporting scriptures. These are idiots.

The Qu'ran, however, orders, celebrates, and rewards this behavior, schmiggs. Can't you see the difference? To make it worse: It is suppose to be THE word of God. Muslims believe it is the actual words of God in the Qu'ran. It is stated as such. If you knew the words, you would understand all that is happening in the middle east. They are following Mo/ Allah to a tee. Who could blame 'em. The could be stuck here, trapped within the oppressive dogma and live among the least productive and least free place in the world.....or they could follow God's words, Kill your family, and then it is off to celebrate with God. All the wine you can drink, between 2 & 72 virgins and if you kill a lot of Jews, you will have a perpetual erection. Are you saying this is OK?


Old Post 05-11-2004 07:57 AM
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post #45  quote:

"But you yourself have said that this text has been around for thousands of years. (1400) If it has been around that long, why are people only now starting to comply with the instructions?" ( wrong)

The quote button isn't working for me. Anyway, I am tired and I must go for now, but I will hit this when I return, because it is one of the most important things one could know about Islam. You don't have to understand Islam to know that it promotes violence. I will explain later using your incorrect assumption that it is only recently that Muslims have been following the Qu'ran.

Good even in me????

I have a relationship with Yahweh. The God of the Bible. His name is mentioned 6868 times within. All religions are bad. The word religion is not mentioned in the Old Testament. A covenant is basically a relationship. So the only difference between Christianity and Judaism is that Jews are awaiting the arrival, while I believe, we are waiting for the return.


Old Post 05-11-2004 08:10 AM
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post #46  quote:

quote:
The quote button isn't working for me.


You have to cut and paste when it's a quote within a quote.


Old Post 05-14-2004 08:58 AM
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post #47  quote:

Usually when I hit the Quote" button, it pulls up the thread in question so one can respond to it. When I tried, It pulled up the post but didn't pull up any of your actual post. I figured you were editing it.

Old Post 05-14-2004 02:29 PM
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post #48  quote:

quote:
devildog said this in post #45 :
"But you yourself have said that this text has been around for thousands of years. (1400) If it has been around that long, why are people only now starting to comply with the instructions?" ( wrong)

The quote button isn't working for me. Anyway, I am tired and I must go for now, but I will hit this when I return, because it is one of the most important things one could know about Islam. You don't have to understand Islam to know that it promotes violence. I will explain later using your incorrect assumption that it is only recently that Muslims have been following the Qu'ran.





We have 3000 years of documented history to go by. From 2500 BC to 500 ad, there are NO reports of any Arab nation going out to conquer or plunder any other nation. Then Mo creates Islam. In the first 10 years, they conquer Yemen, Bysintine(sp), the Persians, the Syrians, the Egyptians and all of Arabia, forcing it forever into Islam . In the next 90 years they conquered everything . These are bloody conquests. Killing everyone, and selling children into slavery. They plundered and conquered everything from Spain to India. What changed them if it wasn't Islam?

There is 100 hundred years of peace sandwiched in between 1400 years of violence. The "golden age" of Islam conveniently follows the 100 years of brutal conquests and it precedes the first books written about Mo and his doctrine. So we have a 100 years during which time, no one really knows what this guy is like and what he taught but once they became familiar with it again because Ishaqs' book was distributed and the Quran was printed and distributed, all of a sudden Islam became horrifically violent all over again. This alone should be enough to make one investigate it, schmiggens. Do you agree?


Old Post 05-16-2004 01:38 AM
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antizionist2004
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post #49  quote:

Devildog you have clearly exposed Islam for what it is, congradulations.

Old Post 06-05-2004 09:02 PM
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post #50  quote:

I'm being deadly serious, but I think you should write a book on it or something, just so after you die people might read it and wake up to the truth.

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post #51  quote:

anti - www.prophetofdoom.net
this is where devil gets much of his information from.
There is also a book, online and in print version if you are interested.


Old Post 06-05-2004 09:42 PM
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post #52  quote:

Yeah DevilDog, you really exposed a religion which is embraced by over a Billion people and is currently the world's fastest growing religion, which has been here for thousands of years.
<exit sarcasm>



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post #53  quote:

No offense TWBR but devildog has put forward good arguments and he has always won the debates easily.

Old Post 06-05-2004 10:19 PM
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post #54  quote:

Versus who? Me? Go on AZ, have fun

or

If you are willing to see DevilDog's claim being proved wrong go here -

http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac.htm


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post #55  quote:

The whole forum all I see is devildog producing quotes that you or anyone else simply cant counter.

Old Post 06-05-2004 10:47 PM
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post #56  quote:

That is because you obviously have an open mind to the subject AZ. At first, you were just as adament about the religion but as the tons of proof started to pelt you, it affected you the same way it does any rational thinking human being. What does this tell you about TWBR? Logan is correct, I haven't said anything that is unknown. There are several books out that expose Islam but Craig Winn is clearly at the head of the class. But regardless of who points it out to you, it is the scriptures themselves that expose Islam for what it is.

Old Post 06-06-2004 02:53 AM
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post #57  quote:

And nice website TWBR. If it contained any rebuttals, why haven't you used them???????????????????????????????????????????????????? And Islam is the fastest growing religion because of the population expanse in the middle east and its not like they have a choice of religion, ya know.

Old Post 06-06-2004 02:57 AM
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post #58  quote:

I didnt use them because i didnt know how close-minded you where at the time, i was sure that you wouldnt believe anything and you will stay with your beliefs, thats the whole point of discussing, you should be open-minded and think with sense.

I already covered the "Allah - The Moon God" and schmiggens already explained the Islamic verses, and he proved you wrong about all the **** you said about Prophet Mohammed (Peace Be Upon Him).

You got AZ, to turn against Islam because he is very weak.


Old Post 06-06-2004 02:59 PM
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post #59  quote:

I was willing to give Islam the benefit of the doubt.

I assumed that it was a peaceful religion, I accepted that it was at least possible that Christians, Jews, and Muslims were worshipping the same God.

I really didn't know too much about the religion though. I started to read the Quran. I had noticed that it's style sounded like an angry drunk rambling on about something or other. I thought maybe it was just the translation, but I'm lazy and with a short attention span so that's all the thought and time I gave to the matter.

Now devildog comes up with all these quotes and what have you. I was turned off by his sort of Crusading attitude, and assumed he was just twisting the facts. But he has presented such an overwhelming amount of evidence, that possiblity goes right out the window. I haven't done any research of my own, so unless devildog is telling blatant lies (which I doubt) you can't argue with the facts.

schmiggens is the only person who had actual facts to defend Islam (and she's not even muslim ) but they hardly compare to the ones devildog posted. When I compared devildogs "out-of-context twisted" quotes from the Quran to the "out-of-context twisted" quotes from the Bible, it became clear to me who was doing the twisting.

While I don't understand devildog's personal mission, there does seem to be some hate-mongering that I find rather disturbing, you can't argue with the facts. I'll admit it (reluctantly) that when he said you have to twist Islam to make it non-violent, he was right. You can't read those quotes and still claim Islam is a peaceful religion. The Bible has a few sort of disturbing quotes, but nothing so blatantly hateful that you find in the Quran.

Devildog's bias and agenda is clear: however, the lack of facts and evidence to refute his claims leads me to one conclusion- there are no facts, that's why they haven't been presented. He's backing his stuff up with facts, everyone else calls him a liar, but no facts.

If you desire peace and love, Islam does not seem to be a good place to find it. It seems to be a way for angry people to take revenge.


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post #60  quote:

Based on your understanding of Islam, you think that Islam does not seem to be a good place to find peace and love, i am 100% sure that you dont have full understanding of Islam.

However, the english translation of the Quran might be the problem, and i haved showed how it is different from the real Quran which is in Arabic.

Someone needs to reach these translators because the use of non-accurate words are hurting Islam.


Old Post 06-06-2004 03:33 PM
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