Madonna responds to adoption controversy

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mystic
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post #61 quote:

quote:

Lawless said this in post #35 :
Amercians are adoption outside of the US because it's much easier to get finish up the process of adoption. Maybe if it wasn't so hard here, in the US, we would see a higher rate of adoptions.

Not only that...but a biological parent from another country loses all rights to that child one the child has been deemed offically abandoned or otherwise. A parent from antoher country cannot come back and get that child. Unlike America, where a parent can come back years later and have the courts give them back the child and then the adoptive parents are left with nothing.

Its total B.S.!!!

THATS why people go to other countries....that and it takes FOREVER to get a kid from the states. There have been people who have waited 8-9 years to adopt a kid from the states. Why do that when they could get a kid from oversees in a matter of a year.

10-21-2006 04:01 AM

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mystic
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post #62 quote:

quote:

Lawless said this in post #54 :
Madonna went through 18 months of trying to work on this... so, how did she skate by and get something without waiting?

quote:

HECK! said this in post #55 :

The baby is only 13 months old...

Lets face it...does it really matter how long it took? Sure, okay money might buy a quicker time period...but why do we care? Its not like she is a bad parent. Her other kids are doing well, and is it more important to have her wait or to have this kid have a better life sooner?

OR....are you all just jealous because she isnt adopting you?

Just kidding.

10-21-2006 04:12 AM

Whidden
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post #63 quote:

quote:

illuminate said this in post #50 :
::: waving my fist at you :::

we should have a smilie like that.

quote:

HECK! said this in post #52 :

There has to be. I am going to make a real animated gif of me doing that...

-HECK!

10-21-2006 07:47 AM

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HECK!
Bluto

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post #64 quote:

. From the NY Post:

"If we were told she wants to take the baby as her own, we would not have consented, because I see no reason why I should give up my son," said Yohane Banda, father of the 13-month-old, David Banda.

"I am just now realizing the meaning of 'adoption,' " said Banda, adding that he had expected Madonna to raise David for him but not keep him as her own. [...]

[H]e explained yesterday that at the time, he believed that "when David grows up, he will return back home to his village."

--------

-HECK!

10-23-2006 10:29 PM

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Lawless
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post #65 quote:

Well, if you don't know what it means to "Adopt" then you shouldn't do it.

Unless there was a signed contract, that Madonna and Guy had, that said they would "return" David when they were "finished with him" then Ummmmmmmmmm, sorry. It's an ADOPTION!

10-23-2006 10:31 PM

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lodgebo
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post #66 quote:

And this is why countries like Malawi rerquire potential parents to stay in the country for a period of time because at least that way both parties know exactly what they are letting themselves in for. I feel sorry for this guy most people in Malawi are poor and have little education so he probably did not know what he was getting himself into.
Mind you it will be intresting to see what happens because we all know that there are some groups challenging the adoption and if they can prove that the father either signed a contract beliveing it was a foster care form or did not know what he was signing or even worse was dupoed by somebody into signing over his son then that might mean that David has to come back, it would depend on Malwi law and these contries tend to favour the father.

10-23-2006 11:20 PM

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Lawless
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post #67 quote:

Well, before ANYONE goes through with an adoption, there should be FULL DISCLOSURE of what you're expecting, etc....

I would say that Madonna won't let David forget where he came from. I just don't see her being like... "Well, he's ours, and we will never tell him the truth." Ummmmm, all he has to do is learn to read, and he will know. This is forever 'written' in history. Just google it, David, and you will know where you're from. You've been adopted by Madonna... not some no name person. The world knows the truth.

10-24-2006 12:26 AM

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post #68 quote:

Well we are not talking about David's background here are we, we are talking about the fact that David's father may have given up a child and not known waht he was getting himself in for ( I always though he seemed a bit to happy and non - chalent about the whole thing when he was interviewed) and that is an issue that needs to be adressed now and not by Madonna or her PR officer and not by her lawyers but by the Malawian orphanage and adoption agencies and if something bogus has gone on then action has to be taken.

10-24-2006 02:30 AM

mystic
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post #69 quote:

I dont buy this whole thing about the dad not knowing. Lets face it...someone doesnt give up the kid and not know the outcome of the occurrence. Are we to believe that the government, or no one informed this guy of what adoption is??? Nope...dont buy it.

he said it himself...he was looking for a better life for his kid...did he really believe this kid was going to come over here and live this kind of life and then return to poverty to live? C'mon!

I realize that some people arent fully educated and dont "get it," but this guy seemed to have understood.

Personally, I think the guy is getting pressured by his own people in oreder to come up with a story change.

Maybe Madonna should get a kid who doesnt have a family as to avoid this kind of stuff.

10-24-2006 06:03 AM

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post #70 quote:

Obviously there was a language and culture barrier here. Maybe he was a goon to boot. Regardless it all seems shady.

-HECK!

10-24-2006 06:15 AM

h@ts
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post #71 quote:

quote:

mystic said this in post #69 :
Maybe Madonna should get a kid who doesnt have a family as to avoid this kind of stuff.

You would think that Madonna, when looking round an orphanage, could find a cute enough baby that had lost BOTH its parents. In an orphanage, you know??

Madonna's well a truly screwed this whole thing up. If she now uses her immense wealth to keep the kid it'll appear likes she's stolen him from his father just because she can. The press will rip her to bits: rich spoilt pop queen v poverty stricken Malawian peasant. No contest.

I have a solution: why doesn't Madonna bring the dad over too and employ him as a cleaner, or gardener, or handy-man or something suitable?

10-24-2006 09:30 AM

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h@ts
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post #72 quote:

quote:

Lawless said this in post #67 :
I would say that Madonna won't let David forget where he came from. I just don't see her being like... "Well, he's ours, and we will never tell him the truth."

I'm not so sure about this. Hasn't Madonna already stipulated some connection between her gift to the orphanage and the Kabala religion? Sounds to me like she's pushing this stuff on people. Trying to change people's religion doesn't sound too accepting of a culture to me.

Also this kid is going to get the best education money can buy, go to the best schools in the world, he's going to hang out with other super rich kids, live without a want in the world. This is going to have a massive culturaly influence on him. He's never going to understand or relate to the poverty and ignorance rife in a country like Malawi? And his dad? You'd think maybe David will one day bung him a few quid from his trust fund.

10-24-2006 09:46 AM

lodgebo
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post #73 quote:

Mystic can you give me one logical reason why the father would agree to adoption then say he was mislead? because right now I can't think of one. For all we know the father may have put David in an orpahanaghe hoping that someone could take care of him for a while now what if Madonna or somebody from her entourage then said to the father "well we will look after David is that OK" he would probably agree. Also I think this claim sheds a little more light on why Madonna left Malawi pretty sharpish.

10-24-2006 09:46 AM

mystic
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post #74 quote:

quote:

lodgebo said this in post #73 :
Mystic can you give me one logical reason why the father would agree to adoption then say he was mislead?

No different than someone getting into a car wreck and stating that they are fine, and then after talking to family or friends or attorney's they change their minds and decide that they are hurt thus deciding to sue the person who hit them..

No different than someone getting arrested and then deciding to state that they were beaten by the cops after someone gets to them and tells them to say that....

I could go on and on...

Its amazing how people can change their mind when other people put crap in ther head.

I believe that even you understand at least how that works.

10-25-2006 01:23 AM

h@ts
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post #75 quote:

quote:

mystic said this in post #74 :
No different than someone getting into a car wreck and stating that they are fine, and then after talking to family or friends or attorney's they change their minds and decide that they are hurt thus deciding to sue the person who hit them..

Sounds like you want to paint this Malawian man in a bad light. Thing is whichever way you look at it, it's his baby, not Maddona's. And if Madonna uses her money and the law to keep the kid then what she's doing is morally indefensible. How can she claim she now legally ownes this baby just because she scribbled her name on a bit of paper. She must sort it out with the babies father. Forget the law and lawyers.

10-25-2006 09:05 AM

Lawless
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post #76 quote:

If the father signed papers for an adoption, then Madonna does have rights to the child.

I don't think that mystic is painting the father in a bad light... but, if he wanted to keep David, then he shouldn't have agreed, for any period of time, to allow another to his child. Now, he's guaranteed a better life, and future... and everyone wants to shoot at Madonna for doing something good.

10-25-2006 05:16 PM

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post #77 quote:

"and everyone wants to shoot at Madonna for doing something good."

Let's not get crazy now.

Beside the news stories I've posted before, let's also remember that there is a massive language and culture barrier that this poorly educated man from a third world country was on the losing end of. That needs to be recognized. Not to mention he's dealing with a multi-millionaire who lined the pockets of his country's president so she can pick and choose a kid like she was thumping melons at the supermarket.

The facts are she tried to pay and expediate the process, bend the laws governing these adoptions and as it turns out the biological father claims he was unaware of what the term "apodtion" means. Undisputable.

And if someone thinks that this guy not grapsing what adoption means to westerners, how's about we all go celebrate Chilembwe Day this year. It's a major Malwai holiday. Not familiar with it? Hmmmmm.

Better life? I don't know that. Hell, if rich white people keep buying poor African kids countries like Malwai, whose economy is heavily dependent on agriculture, will suffer. But there is starvation, disease and a poor economic situation there. Don't know, do we buy all the kids and let the culture just fade away? Or might Madonna dump some dough to build a hospital or two? At least pay for one when she's not trying to adopt a kid there.

-HECK!

10-25-2006 06:01 PM

illuminate
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post #78 quote:

Isn't there some sort of grace period in adoption? I know here if a mother decides to give birth to her baby and then give it up for adoption, she has 6 months or something to change her mind and take the baby back - even after she signs the papers.

10-25-2006 06:04 PM

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post #79 quote:

Malawian law requires one year of residence for adopting parents.

-HECK!

10-25-2006 06:08 PM

h@ts
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post #80 quote:

quote:

Lawless said this in post #76 :
[B]If the father signed papers for an adoption, then Madonna does have rights to the child.

Legally she can run rings round this guy and stomp all over him while she's at it. But morally she's onto a loser, and economically she has her reputation to worry about. This could effect her record sales.

quote:

I don't think that mystic is painting the father in a bad light...

You don't think comparing this guy to people who screw other people out of insurance money by pretending they're hurt is painting the guy in a bad light?

quote:

but, if he wanted to keep David, then he shouldn't have agreed, for any period of time, to allow another to his child.

He changed his mind or didn't know what he was signing. He's poor, iliterate, and uneducated. Give the guy a break.

quote:

Now, he's guaranteed a better life, and future... and everyone wants to shoot at Madonna for doing something good.

Why? Because Madonna's rich it must mean he's going to have a better life. Forget that she could be the biggest screw up of all time when it comes to being a mother, there are more important things in life than the fact you can afford a palace in Scotland and never have to work. This kid is being removed totally from his own culture and father.

10-25-2006 06:09 PM

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post #81 quote:

Agreed. The only way I can see it being a good life is if Britney swings by for a makeout session.

Also, will Madonna teach the lad Kabbalah or his native religion of Christianity?

-HECK!

10-25-2006 06:13 PM

illuminate
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post #82 quote:

There's nothing wrong with her wanting to teach the kid Kabbalah. Christianity may be his native religion but he's being put in a family who has Kabbalah beliefs - why would they teach him to believe differently than what the family believes and how they live? It just makes sense.

10-25-2006 06:37 PM

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post #83 quote:

I think the native culture of the child should be respected.

-HECK!

10-25-2006 06:50 PM

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post #84 quote:

Mystic if this guy is trying to do some screw job and get money why is that he recieved no payment from the papers he turned it down because he thought people like yourself would turn on him.

As for the law a new issue has reared it's head and that is that Malawi may not have any laws on international adoption Madonna admitted heerself that she and her lawyers had to pretty much make it up as they went along.

Also she has proved herself to be a liar she said on Oprah that Davids father " looked me in the eye and said thank you for taking care of my son" now that would be a neat trick when you conasider that he does not speak English and I don't how up Madonna is on Malaiwan regional dialect.

10-25-2006 10:15 PM

Lawless
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post #85 quote:

quote:

lodgebo said this in post #84 :

Also she has proved herself to be a liar she said on Oprah that Davids father " looked me in the eye and said thank you for taking care of my son" now that would be a neat trick when you consider that he does not speak English and I don't how up Madonna is on Malaiwan regional dialect.

Wow... ever hear of a translator? Is it possible that Madonna had someone translating the conversations for her, while in Malawi... or do you just think that she used hand gestures the entire time?

10-25-2006 10:20 PM

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post #86 quote:

but she said HE spoke to her she never metioned a translator she made out that it was a direct one to one which it was not.
Oh also yet more has come out you know the forms the father read and signed he can't read or write and he claims he was told that he was signing the same deal as the he had at the orphanage that he could have david back when he was ready.

10-25-2006 10:28 PM

illuminate
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post #87 quote:

well maybe he was addressing her directly in his native language and the translator did their job BEHIND her. of course, i'm not defending her. It seems like there's something fishy here because all these things keep coming up now.

10-25-2006 11:50 PM

mystic
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post #88 quote:

quote:

h@ts said this in post #75 :

Sounds like you want to paint this Malawian man in a bad light. Thing is whichever way you look at it, it's his baby, not Maddona's. And if Madonna uses her money and the law to keep the kid then what she's doing is morally indefensible. How can she claim she now legally ownes this baby just because she scribbled her name on a bit of paper. She must sort it out with the babies father. Forget the law and lawyers.

How is the fact that by my saying that he may have changed his way of thinking by letting others get to him painting him in a bad light?

We all know it is his kid...but don't get mad at me. Im not the one who put him up for adoption and changed my mind.

10-26-2006 01:19 AM

mystic
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post #89 quote:

quote:

illuminate said this in post #78 :
Isn't there some sort of grace period in adoption? I know here if a mother decides to give birth to her baby and then give it up for adoption, she has 6 months or something to change her mind and take the baby back - even after she signs the papers.

And this is the very reason why people in the states do not want to adopt a kid in the states. Its the "or something" that is the problem. The courts can put a time on it...but they dont stick with it.

10-26-2006 01:21 AM

mystic
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post #90 quote:

quote:

lodgebo said this in post #84 :
Mystic if this guy is trying to do some screw job and get money why is that he recieved no payment from the papers he turned it down because he thought people like yourself would turn on him.

HUH?????

How did this turn into a shame on me situation??

All I said was the guy did something and he may have changed his mind because people put things into his head.

Again...I know you know this happens to people every damn day.

10-26-2006 01:24 AM

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