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becker
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post #31  quote:

Mystic......Maybe we could ask for referances.....

Old Post 01-11-2005 12:02 AM
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post #32  quote:

quote:
mystic said this in post #32 :


Its better to wait if one is a child and cannot make such an adult decision...but IMO...its hard for an adult to make a comment like this if they wouldnt know its better.

I mean if an ADULT had sex before getting married and then said, I should have waited...I could understand that...but for an ADULT that never had sex to say its better to wait..well, IMO...its wierd for me to hear that because how do they know its better. I mean if they get married and then find out that sex with their partner isnt the type of sex they want (like I think Shmiggens mentioned before) then its not really better is it. It doesnt even have to go to that extreme...it could be something sexually simple that you like that she/he doesnt (or vice versa) and now you want something they wont give or you wont give.

Its like going to your girlfriend's/boyfriend's house and seeing how well they keep their place clean, and then finding out after you live with them (or marry them in this case) that they are closet slobs. You wouldnt have ever known it if you didnt live with them first.

And yes, you can teach someone to clean up after themselves...but you cant teach them to hide what they want sexually.

I guess I could say its like opening the biggest Christmas present under the tree last because thats the one you think is the best and you want to wait...but when you open it...you find out that it sucks!

Maybe I went off the deep end with this one.


if someone has some bizarre sexual fetish that is so strange it would ruin the marriage... you will know that beforehand. People with strange sexual traits have other strange traits too.

I understand that some people have some strange quirks and everyone has slightly difference tastes, but we're all basically on the same page sexually. The pages are not so different that two people can't get on the same page in a relatively brief matter of time.

I have heard many many MANY adults say they wish they had waited, and plenty that say they are glad they waited.

Let me put it like this:

If you want to argue that the Puritan view that sex should be saved for marriage is simply an opinion and people have no right to force that opinion on others... fine.

If you want to say that sex between mature, consenting adults don't hurt nobody and isn't wrong... fine.

But the notion that people OUGHT to have sex before marriage to find out if they are "compatible..." I'm sorry but that's one of the silliest things I've heard in a long time. It's a half-baked idea that has no basis in reality.

How many people saved themselves for marriage and then got divorced because they found out they weren't "compatible?"

Now how many people who get divorced had premarital sex? How many people who committed adultry had engaged in premarital sex?

SAVING SEX FOR MARRIAGE IS GOOD FOR THE MARRIAGE.

Now, I think that people ought to have sex before the actual wedding. You gotta get that awkwardness out of the way so you can actually HAVE FUN on your wedding night. But the decision to get married, the commitment ought to be there FIRST.

Commitment is the hard part: the physical act of copulation is the easy part.




Basically what I'm trying to say is this: society is changing. Puritanism is dying. A more liberal philosophy, where sex is fun and fun is good, is taking over. This isn't necessarily a BAD thing per se, but an increasing divorce rate goes along right along with this Liberal Reformation. They have every right to live their life how they want, but they are ABSOLUTELY NOT in a position to be giving marriage advice.


Old Post 01-11-2005 06:19 AM
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post #33  quote:

quote:
Dekka00 said this in post #34 :
How many people saved themselves for marriage and then got divorced because they found out they weren't "compatible?"


A lot of people who have been with the same person all their lives do actually stop and wonder "What have I been missing out on?" "What is everyone else doing" "Maybe I can get better sex from someone else", etc. And they might not neccessarily get divorced, but they may cheat or have a seperation. Most couples would realise that sex isn't everythinmg and end up back with their partner. But for some people the grass is actually greener on the other side.

quote:
Dekka00 said this in post #34 :
Now how many people who get divorced had premarital sex? How many people who committed adultry had engaged in premarital sex?

SAVING SEX FOR MARRIAGE IS GOOD FOR THE MARRIAGE.


Having or not having sex before marriage is no guarantee or predicting factor of whether a marriage will or won't work out. I am sure there are couples who did and didn't have sex who have divorced, I am sure there are couples who did and didn't have sex who have cheated.

quote:
Dekka00 said this in post #34 :
Now, I think that people ought to have sex before the actual wedding. You gotta get that awkwardness out of the way so you can actually HAVE FUN on your wedding night. But the decision to get married, the commitment ought to be there FIRST.


I agree. I can't imagine going through normal wedding-day nerves with wedding night nerves on top of that. You'd pass out from stress or something.

quote:
Dekka00 said this in post #34 :
They have every right to live their life how they want, but they are ABSOLUTELY NOT in a position to be giving marriage advice.


I don't know if we're so much as giving "marriage advice" as expressing our own opinions on the subject in order to help other people make their own opinions on it.


Old Post 01-11-2005 06:35 AM
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post #34  quote:

quote:
Dekka00 said this in post #34 :


if someone has some bizarre sexual fetish that is so strange it would ruin the marriage... you will know that beforehand. People with strange sexual traits have other strange traits too.

Not always true....do you know how many men rape and do things to women that their wives no nothing about? We had a rapist out here that was married and had a family...you dont want to know the things he did to these women. Its something he obviously couldnt get from his own wife.

Serial killers can act like normal people too and no one would ever know. There was a serial killer who was also married who was burying his victims in his own backyard and his wife never knew until the police dug it up.

And to get less disgusting...there are wome and men who marry that end up leaving their spouses because they are gay.

Ill bet their spouse didnt know that.

Never say never.


I understand that some people have some strange quirks and everyone has slightly difference tastes, but we're all basically on the same page sexually. The pages are not so different that two people can't get on the same page in a relatively brief matter of time.

I know what you are saying...but that doesnt always apply either. Im not even just talking about strange quirks even...some things one person may want to try and the other doesnt, and this can be an issue.

I have heard many many MANY adults say they wish they had waited, and plenty that say they are glad they waited.

Let me put it like this:

If you want to argue that the Puritan view that sex should be saved for marriage is simply an opinion and people have no right to force that opinion on others... fine.

If you want to say that sex between mature, consenting adults don't hurt nobody and isn't wrong... fine.

But the notion that people OUGHT to have sex before marriage to find out if they are "compatible..." I'm sorry but that's one of the silliest things I've heard in a long time. It's a half-baked idea that has no basis in reality.

Im not saying that...the point was said in this thread that it is wrong to have premarital sex and what I am saying is that its not for those that want it for the reason I listed and that others listed as well.

How many people saved themselves for marriage and then got divorced because they found out they weren't "compatible?"

I dont know...I dont really care...I had premarital sex and Ive been married for over ten years now....no divorce in sight

Now how many people who get divorced had premarital sex? How many people who committed adultry had engaged in premarital sex?

How many do that who did wait? I know a few of them. I know a few on the other side also

SAVING SEX FOR MARRIAGE IS GOOD FOR THE MARRIAGE.

Now, I think that people ought to have sex before the actual wedding. You gotta get that awkwardness out of the way so you can actually HAVE FUN on your wedding night. But the decision to get married, the commitment ought to be there FIRST.

Well....isnt that considered premarital sex? I would think that would define that.

Commitment is the hard part: the physical act of copulation is the easy part.

Absolutely! But I never said it wasnt.

They have every right to live their life how they want, but they are ABSOLUTELY NOT in a position to be giving marriage advice.

I dont think anyone here is forcing anyone to do what they dont want to do...but isnt that the same as saying "SAVING SEX FOR MARRIAGE IS GOOD FOR THE MARRIAGE" when you really dont know?





Old Post 01-11-2005 06:48 AM
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post #35  quote:

quote:
Well....isnt that considered premarital sex? I would think that would define that.

I knew someone was gonna say this.
Marriage a relationship; the wedding is just a ceremony. It's a symbol of the marriage, not the marriage itself.

quote:
I dont think anyone here is forcing anyone to do what they dont want to do...but isnt that the same as saying "SAVING SEX FOR MARRIAGE IS GOOD FOR THE MARRIAGE" when you really dont know?

I am basing this on statistics, not opinion.

I'm not trying to say that people who have premarital sex are more likely to cheat on their future spouse... however people who cheat on the spouse are more likely to have engaged in premarital sex. (obviously there are exceptions).

It's not the premarital sex that causes the cheating, it's lessening focus on the "sanctity of marriage" in Western Society. Since marriage has its roots in religion, the straying of society from religion is obviously going to result in taking marriage less seriously.

Some people may regret not waiting.
Some people may be glad they didn't wait.

But very, very few people regret waiting.








and word on the street is people who are good dancers are also good in bed. So dance with your significant other and see how you like it. Salsa dancing and belly-dancing are


Old Post 01-11-2005 07:00 AM
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post #36  quote:

quote:
Dekka00 said this in post #37 :

I knew someone was gonna say this.
Marriage a relationship; the wedding is just a ceremony. It's a symbol of the marriage, not the marriage itself.



Seriously though, I know what you are saying...but pre marital means before getting married, and logically this fits that definition...but yes, I know its slightly different than the premarital sex we are generally talking about.


I am basing this on statistics, not opinion.

I'm not trying to say that people who have premarital sex are more likely to cheat on their future spouse... however people who cheat on the spouse are more likely to have engaged in premarital sex. (obviously there are exceptions).

I wouldnt deny that....but you cant say that couples that didnt engage in premarital sex arent curious enough to have affairs either...I already know thats been done. But like you said..those are the exceptions...but Im not a firm believer in stats...never have been. (thats a whole other subject however)

It's not the premarital sex that causes the cheating, it's lessening focus on the "sanctity of marriage" in Western Society. Since marriage has its roots in religion, the straying of society from religion is obviously going to result in taking marriage less seriously.

But premarital sex doesnt always lead to looking at the sanctity of marriage any less than someone else who didnt have sex before. Its all a matter of how adult you are to deal with it.

Some people may regret not waiting.
Some people may be glad they didn't wait.

But very, very few people regret waiting.

I cant deny that...I dont know that enough to challenge it....but you cant regret something that you never did...so its easy to say that.








and word on the street is people who are good dancers are also good in bed. So dance with your significant other and see how you like it. Salsa dancing and belly-dancing are

Hmm...never heard that one...Ill make sure I take my husband dancing again soon...if he is bad that night, then he's out the door. Just kidding...he can dance good enough for me....though to be perfectly honest...I wouldnt want to see my hubsand belly dance or even salsa dance. That would be a sad sight for any women to see.


Old Post 01-11-2005 07:11 AM
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adityamahesh
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post #37  quote:

quote:
Dekka00 said this in post #37 :
and word on the street is people who are good dancers are also good in bed. So dance with your significant other and see how you like it. Salsa dancing and belly-dancing are


I don't think I am a good dancer. I am very awkward. Does that mean my future is bleak?

M.


Old Post 01-11-2005 06:24 PM
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post #38  quote:

try drinking a few glasses of wine

Old Post 01-11-2005 06:36 PM
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post #39  quote:

You really want me to destroy whatever respect my friends have for me, don't you?

M.


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post #40  quote:

quote:
mystic said this in post #32 :


I mean if an ADULT had sex before getting married and then said, I should have waited...I could understand that...but for an ADULT that never had sex to say its better to wait..well, IMO...its wierd for me to hear that because how do they know its better. I mean if they get married and then find out that sex with their partner isnt the type of sex they want (like I think Shmiggens mentioned before) then its not really better is it. It doesnt even have to go to that extreme...it could be something sexually simple that you like that she/he doesnt (or vice versa) and now you want something they wont give or you wont give.

Chances are though, because the people have never had sex before, sex isn't the main part of the relationship. The couple has managed to get along for a long period of time, and stay in love without sex. Even if sex isn't that great after the marriage is sealed, they still have all of the other things that they had before they got married to fall back on. It's not like everything else is going to just disappear because of a few bad nights. Plus there are ways for couples to work things out, so that eventually they can both get what they want in bed.

And yes, you can teach someone to clean up after themselves...but you cant teach them to hide what they want sexually.

There's a difference between having sex before marriage and discussing it. It's not like topic of sex between a serious couple is going to remain " forbidden". Chances are if a couple is serious they will discuss what they like before hand, or at least what they think they would like, or what always turned them on before hand. I seriously doubt most people are going to wait until just after the Wedding reception on the way back to their hotel to ask the question "So, just how kinky are you?" And if a relationship really is that close, that two people want to spend THE REST OF THEIR LIVES together, why would anyone WANT to keep a secret?

I guess I could say its like opening the biggest Christmas present under the tree last because thats the one you think is the best and you want to wait...but when you open it...you find out that it sucks!

How would you like to open your present and find out that Santa left a few gruesome STD's under the tree. I guess he stopped at a few bad houses first before coming to yours..



quote:
Dekka00 said this in post #34 :



I have heard many many MANY adults say they wish they had waited, and plenty that say they are glad they waited.

Same, I have also heard from couples where one person didn't wait and the other didn't, but wished that they had.

How many people saved themselves for marriage and then got divorced because they found out they weren't "compatible?"

Now how many people who get divorced had premarital sex? How many people who committed adultry had engaged in premarital sex?

SAVING SEX FOR MARRIAGE IS GOOD FOR THE MARRIAGE.

This is actually very true. I learned something very interesting back in health class, my sophomore year. I can't believe I still remember it, but I do. And please men, don't take this as in anyway me bashing you at all. This is simply what I learned in health class, from a professional. I am also not saying that this applies to ALL men, or will be the same for ALL men. We learned that men learn, remember, and are better stimulated by things using sight. Where as women are more prone to react with sounds, or smells. Here's how that can affect your sex life. When a man experiences a very high moment in his life, because his mind works photographically, his brain will take a picture of that moment. Literally. The image of that moment will be forever engraved into his head. The problem is, sex is one of those things that can cause a man's head to do this. The pictures tend to pop up whenever the man experiences another high moment. I remember the woman said " Like a photo album". So if he had excellent sex with a past girl friend and then has sex again with his present one, his ex might just be popping into his head, while he's in bed. The more a man has sex, the more images he has, and the more likely they are to pop up when he is in bed. If a man who has had sex many times gets married and then goes to bed with his wife, he may end up thinking about those other woman while he is having sex with his wife. If his wife knows this fact, while their in bed, she's going to be sitting there thinking... hmm I wonder which woman he's thinking about now, and which one he learned that move from, and she may very well be right about what he's thinking. It's not something that a man can easily control either. It's not like he can just say, " Oh whoops I'm with my wife now, I shouldn't be thinking about that amazing time when..." Please don't tell me that over time, that won't ruin a sexual relationship. How would you like to be that man's wife? And I highly doubt that that wouldn't also be a good cause for an affair. However, if a man and woman(I am not saying that woman are completely immune to thinking of other men while their in bed either, just that men are more prone to it) do save it for marriage, then the only images they could ever get in their heads are the ones of their spouse.

Basically what I'm trying to say is this: society is changing. Puritanism is dying. A more liberal philosophy, where sex is fun and fun is good, is taking over. This isn't necessarily a BAD thing per se, but an increasing divorce rate goes along right along with this Liberal Reformation. They have every right to live their life how they want, but they are ABSOLUTELY NOT in a position to be giving marriage advice.

That's true, you can't deny that as the rate of premarital sex goes up, the divorice rate goes with it.


Old Post 01-11-2005 07:23 PM
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post #41  quote:

quote:
adityamahesh said this in post #41 :
You really want me to destroy whatever respect my friends have for me, don't you?


What does respect have to do with your (in?)ability to function as a normal, emotional human being? Your refusal to look discomfort in the face and challenge it is just a hang-up. I had a lot of those when I was a kid. I hope you'll change your mind with age.


Old Post 01-11-2005 07:41 PM
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post #42  quote:

quote:
Sean Kelly said this in post #43 :


What does respect have to do with your (in?)ability to function as a normal, emotional human being? Your refusal to look discomfort in the face and challenge it is just a hang-up. I had a lot of those when I was a kid. I hope you'll change your mind with age.


You know very well that I was being facetious Mr. K. But there is some element of truth. I do not like dancing with other people most of the time. I am not elegant. However, I will learn ballroom dancing one day.

M.


Old Post 01-11-2005 07:50 PM
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post #43  quote:

quote:
daemon17 said this in post #42 :
Chances are though, because the people have never had sex before, sex isn't the main part of the relationship.

Its not the main part of mine either...and we had sex beforehand...I find it funny that you would even suggest that people who have premarital sex think that is the main part...its important, but the not the main part.

The couple has managed to get along for a long period of time, and stay in love without sex. Even if sex isn't that great after the marriage is sealed, they still have all of the other things that they had before they got married to fall back on. It's not like everything else is going to just disappear because of a few bad nights. Plus there are ways for couples to work things out, so that eventually they can both get what they want in bed

I understand what you are saying...but I hate to tell you that if it doesnt work out and that more out of not the nights ARE bad...then it will be a problem. To say it wont is just skirting the issue at hand. I mean sure, its not the most important part...but someday you will find that it does play a role in a relationship.

One thing to note that more women are probably true to their virginity then men are...so its likely that your husband will have already experienced sex.


There's a difference between having sex before marriage and discussing it. It's not like topic of sex between a serious couple is going to remain " forbidden". Chances are if a couple is serious they will discuss what they like before hand, or at least what they think they would like, or what always turned them on before hand. I seriously doubt most people are going to wait until just after the Wedding reception on the way back to their hotel to ask the question "So, just how kinky are you?" And if a relationship really is that close, that two people want to spend THE REST OF THEIR LIVES together, why would anyone WANT to keep a secret?

daemon, I dont want to blow any fantasies that you might have about this...but you might be surprised at how many people actually keep things secret until after they get married.

Sure there are many marriages that last forever...but things happen in marriages. It isnt all sunshine and roses. Any married person on here can tell you this. I know young gals, especially teens, (and I used to be a teen gal so I can say this) have this perception about the man they are gonna marry and all their views are grand and special...its not like that in reality. There are many issues, besides sex and including sex, that make a marriage..and just because you wait to have sex doesnt mean your marriage is any less capable of falling apart than those who have had premarital sex.

As for discussing things beforehand...youre right, its not the same...and as a 16 year old yourself, Im gonna tell you that you should wait...but you will find as you get to be an adult that this mindset may change...and I know you are saying to yourself never...but as you get older, things in your mind do change. You will see that in time.


How would you like to open your present and find out that Santa left a few gruesome STD's under the tree. I guess he stopped at a few bad houses first before coming to yours..

Well...ummm thats a strange statement considering Im married and not having sex with every Tom, Dick, and Harry...and I also find it odd that you think that an adult who decides to have premarital sex is sleeping with anyone and everyone on the face of the planet.

Someone who has premarital sex doesnt always fall into the category of slut or man slut.

Again, thats your perception as a teen...I wouldnt expect you to really understand or see things as an adult since you arent one as of yet (mindset-wise). Dont get me wrong, I mean no disrespect for that statement...but you see things through the eyes of a teen and one who has yet to see or experience things like an adult who has experienced and seen much more of life.



Old Post 01-11-2005 08:24 PM
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post #44  quote:

quote:
One thing to note that more women are probably true to their virginity then men are...so its likely that your husband will have already experienced sex.


I gotta say I'm not so sure this is true anymore

quote:
but you will find as you get to be an adult that this mindset may change...and I know you are saying to yourself never...but as you get older, things in your mind do change. You will see that in time.


indeed, I've seen this happen many many times with people I've known in the past 5-6 years.


Old Post 01-11-2005 08:32 PM
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post #45  quote:

quote:
Dekka00 said this in post #46 :


I gotta say I'm not so sure this is true anymore

Sorry Dek....Im gonna have to disagree with you on that.

indeed, I've seen this happen many many times with people I've known in the past 5-6 years.

I know...its amazing how people's mindset changes as years go by....I remember when I was a teen thinking I would never do this or never do that (not necessarily sex) but it changed, and some of those things I swore I would never do, became less of an issue as I got older.



Old Post 01-11-2005 08:41 PM
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post #46  quote:

I was looking around and found this article, which was kind of interesting...it was written in 2003.

Premarital Sex Doesn't Doom the Union

WEDNESDAY, May 28 (HealthScoutNews) -- When it's limited to the future husband, premarital sex doesn't increase the risk of divorce for women.

That's what researchers from Western Washington University found, whose study appears in the May issue of the Journal of Marriage and Family.

Women who are committed to one relationship, who have both premarital sex and cohabit only with the man they eventually marry, don't have higher divorce rates than women who abstain from premarital sex and cohabitation, the study found.

For these women, premarital sex and cohabiting are simply part of the process of developing a long-term, committed relationship.

The finding offers a new perspective on the long-held belief that cohabitation and premarital sex are strong predictors of divorce for women.

In his study, sociologist Jay Teachman queried women who took part in the 1995 National Survey of Family Growth. He found that fewer than 18 percent of them reported refraining from premarital sex and cohabitation before marriage.

Because the majority of the women said they did have premarital sex and cohabitate before marriage, that sequence has become an acceptable part of the path to marriage, Teachman suggests.

The study findings don't support the common belief that people who live together aren't committed to marriage or that cohabiting reduces a person's commitment to marriage, the author notes.


Old Post 01-11-2005 08:57 PM
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post #47  quote:

Okay..this is what I was looking for:

The great divide

Surveying more than 100 studies on gender differences, Mary Beth Oliver, Ph.D., and Janet Shelby Hyde, Ph.D., came up with a grand total of 21 ways in which men and women differ in sexual behavior and attitudes. The good news, they report in Psychological Bulletin (Vol. 114, No. 1), is that gender differences are growing smaller. Here are the highlights:

- Men are more sexually experienced than women.

- Men lose their virginity earlier than women.

- Men have sex more frequently and report more sexual partners over their lifetime.

- Men have more permissive attitudes about sex; they are more accepting of premarital sex and less likely to feel guilty about it than women.


Old Post 01-11-2005 09:06 PM
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post #48  quote:

So, were these studies based on "polls" and/or questionaires?

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post #49  quote:

quote:
Men lose their virginity earlier than women.


there is no freaking way this is accurate


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post #50  quote:

quote:
sowhatsthetruth said this in post #50 :
So, were these studies based on "polls" and/or questionaires?


As the article says: Surveying more than 100 studies on gender differences. Other than that..I dont know.

If you want more info feel free to look it up yourself.


Old Post 01-11-2005 09:20 PM
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post #51  quote:

quote:
Dekka00 said this in post #51 :


there is no freaking way this is accurate


Why do you say that?

Ill tell ya what...poll the men on just this board and see what response you get.

Trust me...there have been studies of this through years and years, and men are always found to be the first to lose their virginity.

Why do you suppose men have the "reputation" they do? It isnt made up.

Dekka...there are studies out there on the net. And some of them even go back as to telling the results from back in the 1960's.


Old Post 01-11-2005 09:22 PM
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post #52  quote:

quote:
mystic said this in post #52 :


If you want more info feel free to look it up yourself.



It's not my "proof."


Old Post 01-11-2005 09:32 PM
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post #53  quote:

In response to you Mystic:

quote:
Its not the main part of mine either...and we had sex beforehand...I find it funny that you would even suggest that people who have premarital sex think that is the main part...its important, but the not the main part.


In some relationships it is the main part. My best friend didn't have sex with her boyfriend, but she got pretty dam close. All she and her bf used to do was make out, and she always claimed that she " loved him". When he dumped her she was heart broken. Now she's found someone else. Even I love the guy. He is the sweetest most amazing person she could ever have met. He is smart and intelligent, he's in college, so he's a bit more mature. But he won't do anything with her. She says they barely kiss and she hates it, but she loves everything else about him. Problem with her before relationship was, she never really got the chance to know her ex. They rushed right into the physical and she learned to love it. It was the main focus of their relationship, and she did think that things were going to last forever. However, looking back now, she doesn't miss his personality or their talks, just the physical. Now that she has found a guy where she actually does love the personal relationship.. she still can't stop thinking about the physical one she had before. It's like she's been set into make out mode, and she can't appreciate a man she really truly likes, because he won't give her the physical things that she and her ex rushed into so early on, even though she absolutely adores everything else about him. I told her she just needs to get used to not having as much of a physical relationship but the problem still persists. My point is.. that there ARE some relationships where the sexual and physical aspect really is the main point. Because that was all the relationship with her ex was. I also think that now it has damaged her ability to love a man for who he is, and not what he gives her.

quote:
I understand what you are saying...but I hate to tell you that if it doesn't work out and that more out of not the nights ARE bad...then it will be a problem. To say it wont is just skirting the issue at hand. I mean sure, its not the most important part...but someday you will find that it does play a role in a relationship.


I never said it didn't play a role. I said that there is more to a relationship than sex. I also said that if sex isn't working out there are ways for couples to work toward what they want.

quote:
One thing to note that more women are probably true to their virginity then men are...so its likely that your husband will have already experienced sex.


I also don't think I would mind if my husband had sex. I think that if I loved him, I would take the good with the bad. I would however take into account how those relationships worked out in the past, and how important sex is to OUR relationship.

quote:
Sure there are many marriages that last forever...but things happen in marriages. It isnt all sunshine and roses. Any married person on here can tell you this. I know young gals, especially teens, (and I used to be a teen gal so I can say this) have this perception about the man they are gonna marry and all their views are grand and special...its not like that in reality. There are many issues, besides sex and including sex, that make a marriage..and just because you wait to have sex doesn't mean your marriage is any less capable of falling apart than those who have had premarital sex.


I never said I expect my marriage to last forever, although I would like it to, and unless I was being abused, I would fight for the marriage, to keep it together. I also never said I expected marriage to be sunshine. I mean just look at my parents... oi. And I never said that just because I didn't have sex it would help MY relationship anymore (although I do think in general it does). But I am the type of person who wants to save myself for my husband only. For me it is more of a symbolic and moral dilemma. I can't change what may happen in the future, whether I will end up being married till I'm dead or divorced 5 times before the age of 35, who knows I may never get married. But what I can control are the choices that I make through out my life. Which I believe will also affect my future in some way.

quote:
As for discussing things beforehand...youre right, its not the same...and as a 16 year old yourself, Im gonna tell you that you should wait...but you will find as you get to be an adult that this mindset may change...and I know you are saying to yourself never...but as you get older, things in your mind do change. You will see that in time.


Ha, like I haven't thought about that before? Life is not black and white. But as I've grown older I've also found that my reasons for staying a virgin have changed. I've grown to find that sex has caused many many problems for people that I do know. Problems that I myself would never ever want to put myself into. I've see addiction, hate, break ups.. all sorts of things. Instead of being the sweet ten year old who thinks sex is bad because the pastor says so. I am forming my own opinions based off of real life scenarios that have happened to people I know. I have watched relationships grow and die. I highly doubt that in a few years the problems I am seeing now will go away. I have also taken into account that I may change my mind. But right now, I am pretty dead set on not having sex until I am married.

quote:
Well...ummm thats a strange statement considering Im married and not having sex with every Tom, Dick, and Harry...and I also find it odd that you think that an adult who decides to have premarital sex is sleeping with anyone and everyone on the face of the planet.

Someone who has premarital sex doesn't always fall into the category of slut or man slut.


I don't know where you got the idea that you have to have sex with more than one person to get an STD. I also don't ever recall using the words man slut or slut. And I would definitely disagree with you that having an STD makes you a slut, because it doesn't. Granted the word STD, has a negative slutty connotation, but anyone can get one. My point was you may find that staying a virgin will give you a crummy Christmas present in the end. But there are also unwanted presents that people can pick up from having sex before hand. And people can carry more than 1 STD. Premarital sex is probably more dangerous that sex inside of a marriage. It is estimated that about 50 - 80 % of adults in the United States have Oral herpes, and 1 in every 5 adults in the United States carries genital herpes. 90% of these people don't even know they have it. Those are pretty big numbers and that is JUST herpes. There are what 20 something std's going around? It doesn't exactly sound safe. And condoms can't protect against everything. The only way to make sure you don't get one is abstinence. And since you seemed to be so dead set on people hiding things until after marriage, who says your spouse is going to tell you before hand what they've got. I think a secret like that could also be destructive to a marriage. Where if they had just waited, they wouldn't have the STD in the first place.


Old Post 01-11-2005 09:37 PM
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post #54  quote:

quote:
mystic said this in post #53 :


Why do you say that?

Ill tell ya what...poll the men on just this board and see what response you get.

Trust me...there have been studies of this through years and years, and men are always found to be the first to lose their virginity.

Why do you suppose men have the "reputation" they do? It isnt made up.

Dekka...there are studies out there on the net. And some of them even go back as to telling the results from back in the 1960's.


okay, perhaps I should rephrase what I said

there is no freaking way this is true anymore.


Old Post 01-11-2005 09:38 PM
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post #55  quote:

not that whether that irrelevent detail is accurate or not makes the slightest bit of difference to the discussion, but I just thought I'd point that out. I don't care what polls say from the 60's... I'm speaking from what I've personally witnessed in my 20 years. Society has changed a lot in the past several decades... the world has "moved on."

Old Post 01-11-2005 09:41 PM
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post #56  quote:

I hope society HAS learned from the "sexual revolution" many years ago....lots of divorce and funky diseases...more than before the "sexual revolution."

Old Post 01-11-2005 09:51 PM
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post #57  quote:

quote:
mystic said this in post #49 :
Okay..this is what I was looking for:

The great divide

Surveying more than 100 studies on gender differences, Mary Beth Oliver, Ph.D., and Janet Shelby Hyde, Ph.D., came up with a grand total of 21 ways in which men and women differ in sexual behavior and attitudes. The good news, they report in Psychological Bulletin (Vol. 114, No. 1), is that gender differences are growing smaller. Here are the highlights:

- Men are more sexually experienced than women.

- Men lose their virginity earlier than women.

- Men have sex more frequently and report more sexual partners over their lifetime.

- Men have more permissive attitudes about sex; they are more accepting of premarital sex and less likely to feel guilty about it than women.


As a student of Mathematics and Statistics, I must say that 100 studies does not sound enough, unless each study was conducted on multiple people.

However, I do not doubt that most of these findings are true. Males of most mammalian species tend to be promiscuous. It is based on the urge to 'spread the seed'. Also, 'doing' many women is somehow supposed to make you a stud in the minds of many immature idiots.

But I do agree with Dekka on the point about virginity. Women seem equally likely to lose their virginity early. Most people do not seem to place as much importance on it as it used to recieve.

M.


Old Post 01-11-2005 09:54 PM
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post #58  quote:

quote:
sowhatsthetruth said this in post #58 :
I hope society HAS learned from the "sexual revolution" many years ago....lots of divorce and funky diseases...more than before the "sexual revolution."


Marriage and divorce drive-throughs are really helpful too.

M.


Old Post 01-11-2005 09:59 PM
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post #59  quote:

I'd go so far as to say woman are MORE likely to lose their virginity early.

pretty much equal, though, probably.

but it doesn't have so much to do with promiscuity (because let's not lie to ourselves here... deep down inside, EVERYONE's a slut) but just it is more common for younger girls to date older guys.


Old Post 01-11-2005 10:01 PM
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post #60  quote:

quote:
Dekka00 said this in post #61 :
but just it is more common for younger girls to date older guys.


Then maybe I should wait until I am 30-35. Then I can date 20-25 year old girls.

M.


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