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Inner City Blues
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US ex-gang boss denied clemency post #1  quote:



US ex-gang boss denied clemency



quote:
The governor of California, Arnold Schwarzenegger, has denied clemency to former Crips gang leader Stanley "Tookie" Williams.

Barring a last-minute intervention by federal courts, Williams, 51, will be executed on Tuesday.


Old Post 12-12-2005 10:17 PM
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post #2  quote:

Stanley ''Tookie'' Williams should not be given clemency on any accounts. He is horrible and I know people who have been in contact with him. He framed innocent people and robbed stores for a living. He is a drug smuggler as well as a hoodlum.

Old Post 12-13-2005 05:35 PM
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post #3  quote:

Also see this poll: http://www.inreview.com/showthread....5991#post625991

-HECK!


Old Post 12-13-2005 06:47 PM
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post #4  quote:

INTERESTING HAZEL, IT SOUNDS AS THOUGH YOU ARE DESCRIBING PRESIDENT BUSH!! NO ONE AND I MEAN NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO TAKE A LIFE, THOSE PEOPLE UP AT SAN QUENTIN ARE JUST AS GUILTY OF MURDER AS TOOKIE

Old Post 12-13-2005 10:10 PM
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niwrad428
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Remorse? post #5  quote:

What I find interesting is that Arnie said his decision not to grant clemency was based on the fact that he has not show any remorse. Well, all this time he has proclaimed his innocence. Wouldn't it be rather hard to show remorse for something you didn't do?

Old Post 12-14-2005 12:02 AM
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post #6  quote:

I take it you are not for capital punishment? Do you think life in prison is an apt punishment for someone responsible for forming one of the most notorious gangs in the nation and being convicted of four murders?

-HECK!


Old Post 12-14-2005 12:03 AM
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post #7  quote:

I'm against capital punishment so I'm biased. Anyway, his gang activity never played a role in his conviction. But I did think Schwarzenegger was kind of stupid with the logic he used; a man can't apologize and show remorse if he claims he's innocent, why would he in the first place? Nonetheless, reading an article about the trial and the evidence, I would say he is guilty, so it's understandable that they went through with the execution. I still think the death penalty is barbaric so I believe everyone on death row should be granted clemency and sentenced to life in prison.

Old Post 12-14-2005 02:38 AM
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post #8  quote:

O.K., LET'S SAY HE IS RESPONSIBE FOR FORMING ONE OF THE MOST DANGEROUS GANGS IN THE NATION. IS KILLING HIM GOING TO STOP THOSE GANGS ACTIVITIES??? NO IT WILL PROBABLY ONLY MAKE IT WORSE. HE WAS YOUNG AND STUPID WAY........ BACK THEN. HE REALIZED THAT WAS A VERY BIG MISTAKE. NOW I GUESS WHOEVER IT WAS THAT ADMINISTERED THE POISON THAT KILLED HIM WILL HAVE TO SEE THEIR MAKER ON JUDGMENT DAY, AND DOESN'T IT SAY IN THE BIBLE "THOU SHALT NOT KILL'? SO THIS PERSON AND TOOKIE WILL HAVE TO ANSWER TO GOD. LET GOD BE THE JUDGE, WHO GIVES ARNIE THE RIGHT TO TAKE A LIFE??????!!!!

Old Post 12-14-2005 07:33 PM
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post #9  quote:

quote:
one and only said this in post #9 :
O.K., LET'S SAY HE IS RESPONSIBE FOR FORMING ONE OF THE MOST DANGEROUS GANGS IN THE NATION. IS KILLING HIM GOING TO STOP THOSE GANGS ACTIVITIES??? NO IT WILL PROBABLY ONLY MAKE IT WORSE. HE WAS YOUNG AND STUPID WAY........ BACK THEN. HE REALIZED THAT WAS A VERY BIG MISTAKE. NOW I GUESS WHOEVER IT WAS THAT ADMINISTERED THE POISON THAT KILLED HIM WILL HAVE TO SEE THEIR MAKER ON JUDGMENT DAY, AND DOESN'T IT SAY IN THE BIBLE "THOU SHALT NOT KILL'? SO THIS PERSON AND TOOKIE WILL HAVE TO ANSWER TO GOD. LET GOD BE THE JUDGE, WHO GIVES ARNIE THE RIGHT TO TAKE A LIFE??????!!!!

The thing is, his death sentence had nothing to do with is gang ties and it did not even factor into his initial trial. I think that's one of the reasons why clemency was denied; his gang activity was irrelevant to the case. He could just as easily been a woman beater and then transformed his life into pioneering against domestic violence, but this would be irrelevant to a murder case as the two topics are unrelated.

I'm against the death penalty period, I don't think the state is justified in taking anyone's life because all I see is someone that is out for revenge. Nonetheless, I understand the views of those who support the death penalty and I also understand why his clemency was denied. I just think it's a shame because he was trying to use his life in prison to be a positive force. Some will try to point to Williams' earlier years in prison, but that was over a decade ago. He refocused his life for something positive and it seems by sentencing him to death, redemption means nothing.

But I think you have to take a positive step and outlook on this. People should look to continuing the work he started to combat gang violence and lift many in poverty who chose the road Williams went down. Being poor isn't an excuse for crime, but it sure puts people in a precarious situation.

I would also like to give you some advice, lay off the caps, it looks like you're shouting and no one will read whatever you wrote because it will look like you didn't take the time to write a thoughtful response. To many, something written in all caps comes across as a person furiously slamming their hands on the keyboard.


Old Post 12-14-2005 08:12 PM
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post #10  quote:

quote:
one and only said this in post #9 :
O.K., LET'S SAY HE IS RESPONSIBE FOR FORMING ONE OF THE MOST DANGEROUS GANGS IN THE NATION. IS KILLING HIM GOING TO STOP THOSE GANGS ACTIVITIES??? NO IT WILL PROBABLY ONLY MAKE IT WORSE. HE WAS YOUNG AND STUPID WAY........ BACK THEN. HE REALIZED THAT WAS A VERY BIG MISTAKE. NOW I GUESS WHOEVER IT WAS THAT ADMINISTERED THE POISON THAT KILLED HIM WILL HAVE TO SEE THEIR MAKER ON JUDGMENT DAY, AND DOESN'T IT SAY IN THE BIBLE "THOU SHALT NOT KILL'? SO THIS PERSON AND TOOKIE WILL HAVE TO ANSWER TO GOD. LET GOD BE THE JUDGE, WHO GIVES ARNIE THE RIGHT TO TAKE A LIFE??????!!!!


Young and stupid? Made a big mistake? Maybe if he stole a car, robbed a house, or any other minor felony of sorts. The man murdered four people, one of whom he shot in the back. I don't want to get into the in's and out's of the case, but that's not a 'big mistake', that's a capital crime and he received capital punishment. Arnold did not take anything, he simply didn't spare a convicted criminal who never showed any remorse for his crime. Tookie is the person that took lives and he paid the ultimate price. The People voted and said they are for the death penalty. Personally, I agree with it. However, if we want to debate the death penalty, that's a different thread.

I see this as justice; violence begets violence and the circle is now complete. An eye for an eye and all that jazz. I don't take pleasure in the fact that this man was put to death. I do take solace in the fact that justice was done. That's what separates us from the animals, rule of law. Other countries can condemn our actions but that worries me not. Our justice system might have flaws, but show me one that doesn't. We are the greatest nation in the land because we have laws and there are equal consequences when you break those laws.

-HECK!


Old Post 12-14-2005 08:39 PM
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post #11  quote:

quote:
one and only said this in post #9 :
NOW I GUESS WHOEVER IT WAS THAT ADMINISTERED THE POISON THAT KILLED HIM WILL HAVE TO SEE THEIR MAKER ON JUDGMENT DAY, AND DOESN'T IT SAY IN THE BIBLE "THOU SHALT NOT KILL'? SO THIS PERSON AND TOOKIE WILL HAVE TO ANSWER TO GOD.




No.

It did say not to kill or commit murder, but capital punishment was alive and well in the bible. The death penalty was administered for several offenses.

The national government, which was a blend of church and state, carried it out.


Normally by pelting the offender with stones.


Old Post 12-15-2005 01:59 AM
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post #12  quote:

Hmm...

It drives me crazy when people use the "they were bettering themselves and doing something positive" routine. Okay...he wrote a book to help others...great, if it helps kids..then good, he did good before he had to pay for his crime.

Do you know how many people murder and then claim to have become religious or to have turned their life around? The majority. So what? Words mean nothing. Their former actions told all.

SO? What of the 4 INNOCENT victims he murdered? Their families are supposed to just get on with it?

I mean hell...we should have just let him out of prison...he was doing good for society after all.

HELLO....He murdered 4 INNOCENT people!!!

Its amazing how some people seem to forget about the innocent victims of these crimes and focus only on how good a prisoner one is and how we should forego their punishment.

Maybe one of the victims might have written a book to help kids one day...maybe one of them would have become a doctor and saved lives one day..etc, etc.

But we will never know that will we? Lets just focus on the scum and their good work IN PRISON and forget about the true victims in this case.

How pathetic.


Old Post 12-15-2005 04:59 AM
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post #13  quote:

quote:
mystic said this in post #13 :
I mean hell...we should have just let him out of prison...he was doing good for society after all.

This is just a straw man here. None of the people that supported him were calling for his release from prison, so it's dishonest to say people were. Life in prison is not NOT punishing the person. I'd just feel I'd point that out because it's a misrepresentation of others' views.


Old Post 12-15-2005 05:14 AM
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post #14  quote:

quote:
mystic said this in post #13 :
I mean hell...we should have just let him out of prison...he was doing good for society after all.

This is just a straw man here. None of the people that supported him were calling for his release from prison, so it's dishonest to say people were. Life in prison is not NOT punishing the person. I'd just feel I'd point that out because it's a misrepresentation of others' views.


Thank you for reading my mind and posting this before I had the chance!!!


Old Post 12-15-2005 11:49 PM
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post #15  quote:

Well, thanks for all your comments and opinions but I think I'll stick to my own assumptions. Once again God is the final judge. Everyone have a very Merry Christmas. By the way what's so pathetic is all the persons on this site that have actually seen all the evidence against Tookie and have found him guilty. He sure didn't have a jury of his peers now did he???? Ponder that...

Old Post 12-16-2005 03:06 AM
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post #16  quote:

Shoot, he had a jury of his peers. They convicted him, and it held up to all his many appeals.




Old Post 12-16-2005 11:20 PM
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post #17  quote:

quote:
one and only said this in post #16 :
Well, thanks for all your comments and opinions but I think I'll stick to my own assumptions. Once again God is the final judge. Everyone have a very Merry Christmas. By the way what's so pathetic is all the persons on this site that have actually seen all the evidence against Tookie and have found him guilty. He sure didn't have a jury of his peers now did he???? Ponder that...


----------

I think you need to brush up on good ol' Tookie and the evidence against him...

-------------
History of Stanley 'Tookie' Williams' Appeals

Nov 29 2005

Procedural History and Appellate Review
To date, Stanley 'Tookie' Williams' case has received extensive legal scrutiny in both state and federal court. Since his conviction in 1981, Williams has pursued multiple appeals and habeas corpus petitions.
In each and every instance, in both state and federal court, his conviction has been affirmed as appropriate and just, according to the Los Angeles District Attorney's office.

On April 18, 1980, the trial court granted Williams' motion to substitute his hand-picked attorney, Joseph Ingber, as attorney of record in place of Gerald Lenoir.

On January 21, 1981, the jury trial commenced and on March 13, 1981, the jury returned guilty verdicts of four counts of first-degree murder and two counts of robbery. The jury also found the special circumstance allegations of robberymurder and multiple murder to be true. Lastly, the jury found true the special allegations that defendant Williams personally used a shotgun and that a principal was armed with a firearm.

On March 17, 1981, both parties having rested without presenting evidence at the penalty phase, argument was presented on behalf of the People and defendant Williams as to whether the penalty should be death or life imprisonment without possibility of parole. Following arguments and instructions of law by the Court on this issue, the jury, on March 18, 1981, returned a verdict of death as to each of the charged first-degree murders.

On April 15, 1981, defendant Williams' motions for a new trial and for modification of the verdict and findings imposing the death penalty were heard by the Court and denied. The trial court then sentenced Williams to death on counts 1, 2, 3 and 7.

On April 11, 1988, on automatic appeal to the California Supreme Court, in the cases of People v. Stanley Williams, Crim. No. 21977, and In re Stanley Williams, Crim. No. 23806, consolidated under Case No. S004365, and published at (1988) 44 Cal.3d 1127, the imposition of the death penalty was affirmed and defendant Williams' first habeas petition was denied following an evidentiary hearing.

On January 18, 1989, the California Supreme Court denied defendant Williams' second state habeas petition in Case No. S008526.

On that same date, January 18, 1988, defendant Williams filed his first federal habeas petition in the United States District Court in Case No. CV89-00327-SVW. The district court held that petition in abeyance while defendant Williams returned to the California Supreme Court with his unexhausted claims.

On April 11, 1994, following another evidentiary hearing, the California Supreme Court denied defendant Williams' third state habeas petition in Case No. S011868, published at (1994) 7 Cal.4th 572.

On June 21, 1995, the California Supreme Court denied defendant Williams' fourth state habeas petition in Case No. S039285.

On December 21, 1988, defendant Williams returned to federal court and, following an evidentiary hearing, the United States District Court denied defendant Williams' amended habeas petition in Case No. CV89-00327-SVW, and published its order at (1998) 41 F.Supp.2d 1043.

On December 17, 1999, defendant Williams' subsequent Rule 60(b) motion to reopen the judgment was denied, and the order was published at (1999) 1999 WL 1320903.

On September 10, 2002, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit denied defendant Williams' direct appeal and Rule 60(b) motion in Case Nos. 99-99018 and 00-99001, published at (2002) 306 F.3d 665.

On September 9, 2004, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals amended the opinion and denied defendant Williams' petition for rehearing and suggestion for rehearing en banc, published at (2004) 384 F.3d 567.

On February 2, 2005, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals denied defendant Williams' subsequent petition for rehearing and suggestion for rehearing en banc, published at (2005) 396 F.3d 1059.

Finally, on October 11, 2005, the United States Supreme Court denied defendant Williams' petition for writ of certiorari in Case No. 04-10500.
As this historical accounting proves, Williams has benefited from a detailed and exhaustive review of all of his legal claims and each court has affirmed the guilty verdicts and affirmed the death sentence. In doing so, our courts, both state and federal, have given appropriate and serious consideration to Williams, consideration which Williams so violently denied each of his victims.
-------

-HECK!


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post #18  quote:

Tookie and the jury...

----------------
'I'm Going to Get Each and Every One of You'

In the response to Stanley 'Tookie' Williams' petition for clemency, the Los Angeles County District Attorney filed a response outlining his behavior during his trial and his threat to the jurors who found him guilty. Here are excerpts from that response.

On January 21, 1980, Stanley Williams, through his attorney Gerry Lenoir, made it clear that he wished to replace Mr. Lenoir with his hand-picked attorney of choice, Joe Ingber. In fact, Williams personally asked the trial judge for a continuance so that he could arrange for the hiring of Mr. Ingber.

Williams, in addressing the court, stated, "Well, see, excuse me, your Honor. I'd like to move for a continuance at this time because the attorney of my choice, he's at this moment downtown fighting a murder trial." (TT A55-A56).

In response, the trial judge indicated that the next court date was months away, and that if Williams wished to employ Mr. Ingber, the court would allow Williams to "change counsel." (TT A56). At the next court appearance, on April 18, 1980, that is exactly what transpired. Stanley Williams asked that Gerry Lenoir be substituted out and that Joe Ingber be substituted in on his behalf.
When the court asked Williams if that was his desire, Williams responded affirmatively. (TT A58). The court then granted Williams' request, and Joe Ingber became the attorney of record. During the subsequent trial, Stanley Williams was represented by both Joe Ingber and his associate, Steven Ehrlich.

On March 13, 1981, the jury reached guilty verdicts on all counts, and found all the special allegations true. After the verdicts were read in open court, Williams spoke out to the jury, calling them "sons of *****es." (TT 2886-U). He was later asked, outside the presence of the jury, if he would like to take advantage of his Constitutional right to testify in his own defense at the penalty phase (a right Williams chose not to take advantage of during the guilt phase). Williams' response to this question was "hell no." (TT 2988).

Moreover, despite the trial judge urging Williams to present mitigating evidence during the penalty phase, Williams indicated he did not want to call any witnesses and did not want to present any evidence in mitigation. (TT 2988-2989, 2996). The following discussion was had among the trial judge, defense counsel, and Stanley Williams (TT 2996-2997):

INGBER: It's the defendant's desire that no one testify in his behalf in this phase; and I acquiesce to the desires of the defendant. So there will be no testimony called in this phase of the trial.

JUDGE: I would strongly urge that if there is any mitigating evidence, and if it can be presented, that you would be inclined to do that. But, of course, I realize the decision is yours. Are we to proceed?

INGBER: Yes, Your Honor.

The court then turned to Williams and urged him to put on whatever mitigating evidence he had.

JUDGE: Well, let me indicate, Mr. Williams, that I would strongly urge that if you have any testimony in mitigation that that be presented at this time. I realize the final decision has to be arrived at with you on the advice of counsel; and I suppose as to those matters counsel has the last word as to whether other mitigating evidence should be presented. So I want you to be aware that I'm recommending that you present any, if you have any. Have you had enough time, Mr. Williams, to discuss this matter with your lawyer?

WILLIAMS: (No response).

JUDGE: The record should reflect that the defendant remained mute in response to that inquiry.

It was subsequently discovered that the defendant threatened the jurors after the guilty verdict was read. Specifically, the defendant looked at the jurors and said he "was going to get all" of them. (TT 3072). After learning of this threat, the trial judge inquired of the jury foreperson.

The foreperson confirmed the defendant mouthed the words "I'm going to get each and every one of you mother f******." (TT 3078). The foreperson further confirmed that this threat did not play any part in the deliberations and was, in fact, not discussed during the penalty phase of the trial. (TT 3078).

--------

-HECK!


Old Post 12-17-2005 12:05 AM
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post #19  quote:

To read about the witnesses in the case, I suggest this link: http://crime.about.com/od/deathrow/a/tookie8.htm

You decide.

-HECK!


Old Post 12-17-2005 12:07 AM
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post #20  quote:

Didn't he rape some people in jail as well?


I heard that on the news, but never saw anymore about it.


Old Post 12-17-2005 12:12 AM
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post #21  quote:

Whatever......... we all know that evidence is sometimes planted and people are sometimes framed so really all that evidence stuff means nothing. Everyone have a Merry Christmas.

Old Post 12-19-2005 03:30 PM
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post #22  quote:

Yeah, stuff like EVIDENCE is overated.

Old Post 12-19-2005 11:14 PM
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post #23  quote:

You should read the page HECK posted, one and only. Amazing stuff.

No "planting" going on there. His own accomplice turned him in.


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post #24  quote:

Some people talk, others know what they're talking about. I leave it to history to make the decision. Or I will. Whatever.

-HECK!


Old Post 12-20-2005 07:20 AM
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post #25  quote:

Yes, his accomplice would say anything to save himself. Anyway, I'm finished debating the Tookie situation, and I still say he should not have been executed.

Old Post 12-23-2005 06:34 PM
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INReview INReview > The Scuttlebutt Lounge > Politics & Government > Law > US ex-gang boss denied clemency
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