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scottc
Mastermind
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Registered: Mar 2003
Local time: 08:20 AM
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 500
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European cars -
Mclaren F1
Ferrari 360
Porsche 996 GT2
Ultima GTR
Jaguar XKR
Maserati Spyder GT
Aston Martin DB7 Vantage
BMW M coupe
Jaguar XJ220
Bugatti EB110S
Venturi 400GT
Ferrari F40 and F50
Noble M12GTO
TVR Speed 12
Mercedes 500SL
American Cars -
Err, well I spose the competition for the above would come soley from the Corvette Z06, and the Dodge Viper. Both monstrously fast without a doubt, but once again the old handling lets both down. Weight and distribution of the car was not an issue, nor was heat distribution at the tyres, basically all of the work was put in to create an engine that is VERY quick, (the methodology being just put something big in it, as in an 8.3 litre for the Viper). In the real world however, you are required to turn the wheel every now and then, which is where the european cars go round the bend, whereas the American cars do not.
American cars also look incredibly vulgar, whereas european styling is far superior.
Well, looks like on all levels European cars win.
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05-16-2003 11:59 AM
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scottc
Mastermind
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Local time: 08:20 AM
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 500
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That is true, but the subject was American Vs European. If price is an issue then there still are many great alternatives. Amongst the list there is the Jaguar XKR, which can be picked up for around 60,000 dollars.
The Ultima GTR is around 65,000 dollars pre built, (or less if you take it in kit form and build it yourself). This is probably the most awsome of awsome cars. 0-60 in about 3.6 seconds, and a top speed of 220 mph. This is actually a fusion of what is good about American cars, (ie a powerful engine), with British engineering to accomplish great handling and stunning looks. It has an American Chevy lump, with a Porsche Trany. If you choose to assemble the car yourself, you can get the full kit for under 30,000 dollars, then find a chevy 5.2 lump. All in all for about 35,000 dollars, you can be driving the car that Mclaren based the F1 road car on. Check out http://www.ultimasportscars.com/ they even have a section devoted to US customers, where they can ship for free.
Other than that, if you look at the slightly less fast alternatives, I used to drive a Porsche Boxster, loads of fun, stunning looks, and all for about 40,000 dollars. Or there is the Audi TT, which is even cheaper. Import costs are'nt really an issue, since you can buy most european cars cheaper in America than over here. A new Jaguar XKR here in the Netherlands costs 140,000 euros !!, (which is roughly equal to the dollar).
The Noble M12 is also pretty cheap, one of the fastest cars on the road and about 60,000 dollars. They do not export to the US though.
With regards to "most Americans cant afford them", I thought America was the richest country in the world. There are far more rich people in America, than say Germany or England. Yet there are no American supercars.
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05-16-2003 03:35 PM
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rc10t
Qualified Rookie
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Registered: Feb 2004
Local time: 02:20 AM
Location:
Posts: 19
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well it is simple for me. its all about reliability and resale. take for example buying a new toyota corolla, granted they are slow and girly, but it is the longest lasting compact car on the road. lets say you paid 16,000 for it, two years later with average milage it is still worth atleast 10,000. Then take a cavelier, you pay the same new but two years later it is worth like 2,500. It is the same with every american vs. japanese car. the only american vehicles that hold their value are diesel trucks. and just look at any reliability reports for cars in the last 15 years. the top is always toyota and honda. the bottom is always occupied by american a and korean. Now european cars are tough because they hold their value better but a lot of euro cars are actually american owned. the reliability of cars like vw, bmw, mercedes and volvo have gone down terribly in the last 5 years. but i will give credit to the corvette, that much performance for the price tag, very hard to beat.
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02-17-2004 09:30 PM
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MRDosGuy
Qualified Rookie
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Registered: Sep 2003
Local time: 02:20 AM
Location: Blacksburg, Virginia
Posts: 12
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Japanese cars hold their value a lot longer, for reasons previously stated. They would definitely get the bang-for-the-buck award. If we want to go into sports cars, which seems to be the direction of this thread, there are many options in the Japanese automotive industry. And no, no matter what you do to your civic, it is still a civic. I am talking about cars designed to be sports cars from the beginning (ie, the Supra, MR2, 2000GT, 3000GT, NSX, WRX, etc). One thing that makes these cars so valued, in addition to the current rage from poor movies like "The Fast and the Furious," is the aftermarket parts and 'tuner crowd' that occurs with each of these cars. Individual cars will have a large following of people devoted to them. If left unmodded, a high performance sports car like the NSX can still be used as a comfortable daily driver, yet will last for 150,000 miles or more. Also, in terms of economy, Japanese cars are some of the least expensive cars out there (I am no longer talking about the sports cars). This makes them very popular.
American cars have gotten much better. Personally, I am a fan of handling and power, so I do not believe that the best sports car is nothing but a straight line or drag car. Older american cars were very good at that. The corvette, up until the C4 production, is a great example of this. The C5 and C6 series, especially the Z06, and even the C4 to an extent, are, in my opinion, some of the best American sports cars that can be bought. The Z06 outhandles most other sports cars in the world and has lots of hp (405 bhp) and torque as well. It is an extremely nimble and very good car. Other American cars, such as the Ford Mustang, pride themselves on straight-line performance. Handling is not really the issue with them. Mustangs, like some of the Japanese cars, also have huge fan followings, and this leads to companies offering lots of aftermarket parts. And this, in turn, boosts the sales of Mustangs (or any car with a following for that matter). Pricing on American sports cars is not all that ridiculous, as much as people seem to think that they are overpriced. The Z06 is the best sports car that can be bought (in terms of performance) for under $80k. For more expensive American sports cars, I would urge one to look into the Saleen S7. It is almost unbeatable.
European cars are in a league of their own, yet they have a lot of hype about them. I do certainly agree that one of the cheapest and best European sports cars is the Ultima GTR, but it is nowhere near $65k. The frame and part alone, and unassembled, cost $90k. The Chevy engine that goes into the car, in the top form (required for the previously posted 0-60mph times) costs over $20,000. And then you have to put the thing together on top of all that. (Sources: http://www.ultimacars.com/fra_pricing_ordering.htm and http://www.amerspeed.com/ultima.htm). Older british cars have a fan following, but are considered collectibles and are rarely driven on a regular basis. Jaguar has made some good cars, but overall, as European cars are being bought out by American companies, their reliability is going up. Italian cars, such as Ferraris and Lambos, are, eithout a doubt, some of the best performance cars in the world. However, what few people know is the amount of work that has to go into them just to keep them running. A Ferrari is supposed to have dealer work performed on it every 15k miles. Those dealer repairs alone will cost the owner the price of a new Civic. For the people who own brand new Ferraris and such, this is not really an issue, but it is something to take into consideration when comparing all these cars. The same goes for Porsches and the like. All European cars are going to have a much lower reliability and much higher maintainence costs than other cars.
All of these things factor into which car is "the best." It all depends on driver preference, and loyaltly to a car or brand (but we won't go into that right now) to find out what makes the best car in each person's mind. So, with that said, I am going to step down from my soap boax and see where this thread goes.
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03-18-2004 10:26 PM
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