ARE we bullies?

Post-9/11 Era Forum

Something that just struck me today.. I think the U.S. has an air or army or navy or marines or what-have-you base in every country around the globe - what country has a military presence on OUR soil? "What? A German airbase on our divine soil!? Hogwarsh!" That's the response I'd expect, though it's perfectly justified for us to have installations all over the world.. very interesting....

Are we bullies? Well at the moment it seem that even most americans feel we're behaving a bit like the school yard terror as we all sit silently awaiting some real proof... ...The one thing I do know for sure is that most of the world beyond our boarders most certainly see us that way.

Then again, considering we're in the position we're in - WHO CARES?

I mean, who really cares what the rest of the world thinks about us?

We're starting to sound like a bunch of post-puberty teen age girls in high school.

Who cares? I care. I think every American should care. The world's opinion of the U.S. is very important... the way I see it the behavior of post-pubescent teenaged girls has little to do with handling ourselves properly in international relations.

The rest of the world perceives our military presence in many countries as unnecessary, but lets think about what would happen if we pulled our troops out of most of those countries. Lets pull our Marines, Army, and Air Force out of Korea and let them kill each other. Maybe then the men and women who are there on hardship duty could come home and not have to worry about being spit on, having rocks thrown at them, and being shot at. As a matter of fact lets just sit back and let half the world destroy itself. So, bring my boyfriend home, my best friends husband, and all the other men who we don't have at home and let the world think what it will. Lets let the rest of the world take care of their problems and see how long it takes before they are crawling to us for money, ships, troops, fuel, etc. I wouldn't even give it a year.

Amen.

Again I ask - who cares? What is their positive feedback about our public relations going to do for you?

Now we watch as the rest of the world slowly turns against us.

We may fight noble fights (communism, genocide, and world domination) but I think the people with the power in America do not make decisions based on these. I believe they are selfish motivations, such as greed, power, and economic interests.

How much longer before another country(s) does something really drastic? i.e. nuclear response, biological weapons, economic sanctions (oil), or other economy toppling attacks

Pray for peace and brace for war.

Pismarrn said: "...bring my boyfriend home, my best friends husband, and all the other men who we don't have at home and let the world think what it will. Lets let the rest of the world take care of their problems "

That is an excellent idea. If you care about them more than the crap you are being fed by the (Exxon-Halliburton) Executive Branch, then you should advise your loved ones to come back, and volunteer again when they are legitimately and legally asked to defend the United States.

Besides risking their own wounding, maiming, or deaths, your loved ones may unwittingly be sowing the seeds for the next Terrorist attack on America.

wake up everyone...THE REST OF THE WORLD HATES US...no matter what we do or how much money we give them they hate us and always will...so who cares about what they think about us...and lets pull our military out and let them kill each other...it would actually make a better world...

This is only part true. Where would we be if the French had not helped us during the revolutionary war? Did they hate us then?
Sure, every country has something against another one, but that doesn't mean they hate us and we as a country have helped other countries and have asked for help from other countries. Where would Britian and France be without us? That's a hard question to answer, but we did save them. We have also helped many other countries - and when helping them, people protested all over the world. It is the same now as then.

(Not sure how true this is - But here's a thought of France President from the BBC )

With the United States the target of anti-war demonstrators' anger, France's President Chirac has declared that despite his differences with the US, he still loves the country. And when you look at it, there are hundreds of things the US has done for us.
With London peace protesters toting effigies of President George Bush and placards lambasting the United States, Prime Minister Tony Blair has warned of the dangers of anti-Americanism.

Even France's Jacques Chirac - a one-time Harvard student and forklift driver at a US brewery - has said his fierce criticism of Washington does not lessen his fond regard for America as a nation.


Now I do know many Muslims hate us. I cannot say all of them, that would be harshly prejudice and untrue. But for some reason, many of them hate us and believe that we are trying to attack their beliefs. Honestly, I pay no never mind to their beliefs because it is their's and not mine. Plus, most american's believe that a people is entitled to their belief.



By the time this is through THE REST OF THE WORLD MAY HATE US Even though we may save IRAQ from a dictater who really doesn't care if his people live or die.

Ok....let me make my statement a lilttle bit clearer....I should have said that the Arab and Muslim world hates us.

LOL - I agree -
No debate or argument there, and if someone were to augment that - I would have to wonder why when it has been proven time and time again.

The U.S. involves itself in matters that really are none of its business. Americans go into countries that have not asked for their help and attempt to change the entire culture and lifestyle of the countries, this is cultural genocide. Did the Nazi's not attempt something similar? The difference is that the Nazi's killed people physically whereas the Americans kill their souls and foster environments that are full anti-Americans. No wonder there are so many terrorists around the world.
I come from a country that after WW2 did not receive any aid from the U.S. because the U.S. did not trust in its economy. That country now has one of the strongest and stable economies in Europe. The world does not need American help. I think the world needs the Americans to step aside and concern itself with domestic affairs.
Regional wars may result from Americans leaving areas of tension, but is that really any anyone elses business unless its a direct threat to the U.S.? As to the person who said that these countries would come crawling back within a year asking for money, well that may be true and it may not. I think if the countries were given time they could survive withtout American assistance. But we won't ever find out if the US doesn't stop meddling in affairs that don't concern them. Whatever happened to that US policy of isolationalism?
As for Hussein, he's a horrible dictator who mass kills and tortures innocent people. He's a war monger and basically a horrible person who should be removed from his position in Iraq. But if his public speeches and bin Ladin's pre-terrorist attack speeches are looked they closely resemble Bush's most recent speeches. I find that very scary because both bin Ladin and Hussein are brutal dictatorial leaders. Currently I live in a country that neighbours the US and the people in this country are facing fears that the Americans will do something to spark global war that will drag them into warfare. I don't know what sorts of propaganda the American people receive about this whole situation but I do know that the millions of people are against this war. And I know that millions of people are against the Americans and their actions. The US should take this as a hint. America may have allies now but what about in the future?Europe doesn't want war, Canada doesn't want war, and I'm sure the average Iraqi person doesn't either.
My last question is, if the rest of the world is to surrender their nuclear weapons for peace, then why doesn't the US do it as well, after all it is the only country in history that has ever used it as a weapon of mass destruction?

of...first off we do not kill our own people....second off we should not have to destroy our nuclear weapons...we made the technology and would never use one unless we absolutely had to....third off we are not the only other country that has nuclear weapons...the only countries that we are asking to disarm are ones with evil and insane dictators as rulers...i don't see us asking all countries to destroy nuclear weapons...and the use of the weapons in Japan at that time seemed a good thing to do and I respect that decision...we cannot change the past but we can make a better future which would start with taking out Saddam...basically all the arguments that you supplied make no case at all to stop the war

Parts of what you say may be true - but if you run through the US history books(and depending on the content) many countries did not ASK for help - but accepted it when offered.
There is a school in my town that just built a muslim mosque for the people. Does that sound like we are trying to change religion?

but I do know that the millions of people are against this war.
I respect your beliefs and your stance - each to their own -
but every war has had millions of protests. this is no different.
And if mustard gas is considered to be a "Weapon of mass destruction" - Germany was the first to use this in WWI according to all the history books and articles on the web about WWI.

Saddam Genocides the kurds like Germany did to the Jews.
Getting rid of him would be a blessing. Have you read the article about Saddam's double that defected and Israel is gathering information from? He states that Saddam has A LOT of illegal items. This article is found in 7 different countries so far.

Whatever happened to that US policy of isolationalism?
If you don't know, I'll explain in simple terms.
Europe didn't want us doing that. In the early 1900s
Great Britain and others broke us out of that. They didn't want the us indulging in isolation. If you don't believe me - feel free to look it up.

Dropping the Nuke - was a good idea. It proved that we weren't going to take any crap. We weren't even IN THE WAR until Japan did that. So we ended it.

The thread was "Are [Americans] bullies?" not "how do we stop war with Iraq?".
I never said that you kill your own people. If you are assuming that because Nazi's killed Germans, I meant that Americans kill Americans, then you took it the wrong way. I meant that both Nazi's and Americans had/have an attitude that others are below them and both both seem to think that they have a right to change the world into a what they think is right.
i agree with you that Hussein is an evil man who should not have the right to use nuclear weapons but how is the rest of the world supposed to trust that Bush won't use nuclear weapons in a way that could seriously demolish the world.
As for Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945, I don't understand how you can say it seemed like a good decision at the time. No one knew all the effects it could/would cause. It killed/injured millions of people, innocent people. I guess the terrorist attacks on the WTC seemed like a good decision to bin Ladin.
I agree that the past can't be changed and that the future is our only hope for bettering the world. Hussein should be taken out, but so should Bush.

ignore this - org posted twice

You cannot really compare WTC to the bombing. The bombing was a retaliation - No they did not know the consequences of the action, but it did turn the war around and help end the war. Had this not occurred - the outcome would more then likely had larger consequences on Europe. WTC was mass murder - no war proclaimed.
Pearl harbor is categorized as "WAR" not terrorism(just to clarify belief) and seemed like a good idea at the time for Japan.


Personally, I hope that the Pres DOES NOT use Nukes. If he uses them, then others may see the need to do so - though - only 5 countries in the world are supposed to have them -
U.S.A., Russia, and U.K. Cannot recall the other two at this time.
The Nuclear Proliferation Treaty.

By the By - I speak with Canadian citizens all day here at work - some of them are for war - some are not. One told me that he hoped IRAQ gets nuked. Everyone has their own opinion - the reason I am for it.
Look at this link to see what the Mustard Gas and VX gas that Saddam cannot account for can do.
www.terrorismanswers.com/home/

What I meant by saying that it was a good decision at the time was that they did not know all of the harm it would cause...if they did they probably would not have done it...also if you agree that this guy is evil what do you think we should do about it? Just sit around and do nothing and let him kill more of his own people...or take action like we are trying to do. Also how dare you say that Bush needs to be removed...sure the economy is not so great..like it was with clinton...THAT IS BECAUSE WE WERE ATTACKED!!! That really makes me sick. Bush is doing an excellent job. I believe that he is the type of president that the founding fathers wanted.

I believe in diplomacy.

That's what i'm saying Caps#1
why sit there in idle and watch somebody kill person after person. His own country men. It would be asinine. I think some people, the protesters in general, should research what they are speaking about.

OMG...u have got to be kidding me we have had 17 UN resolution..now possibly and 18th if that isn't trying to reason with him and keep the peace what will?

Diplomocy doesn't work with someone who believes they are Nebuchadnezzar II King of Babylon. This information was from Arabs that left IRAQ.

Well, there's probably a high degree of certainty that Bush will not remain in office beyond 2004, so you don't have to worry yourself over that. Ain't democracy great that way?

Funny thing is that that fact alone highlights another argument to what youre [jessika] saying: if the American people vote him out of office then that demonstrates distinct differentiation between the beliefs & actions of American Government figures versus those of the people. And so the moral: judge not all American people by the actions of its government.

See, the painful thing about electing leaders into office is that we vote them in with only partial information and with no ability to forecast the future. Who would be president today had we known in advance about the atrocities of 9/11/01 and/or the threat of war with Iraq (and/or North Korea - global implications?), and the administration's relationships with the oil tycoons, etc. all associated with the presidency of G.W. - My bet is that Gore would be the president right now. This just serves to highlight that with our limited information going to the voting polls, all we can do is go by what we know.. had anybody known of those things, it might be different today. But fortunately, we don't have to live with it for long..

Do American's believe others are beneath them? Without a doubt, some do, but they are the minority. Don't forget that America is the "melting pot" of culture from all nations around the world. To think that others are beneath us is to think that we're beneath ourseslves. It's not like that. This is a multi-ethnic, multi-national society. There are some who would argue that, perhaps, but I think (I hope beyond hope! ) that racism, nationalism, unwarranted discrimination are all becoming things of the past. I suppose people have been saying that for decades, and indeed there are some stupid damn people out there who behave like stupid animals and operate by primal instincts - but hey: those people exist in EVERY nation. This is not a uniquely American trait, so please don't associate it with American's: it's insulting. It's a human problem, not an American problem.

As for the matter of what's our business and what's not... I too think that the view that America should mind it's own business and keep it's nose out of affairs that doesn't concern it is just ignorant. There are many, many complex international policies, politics, understandings, interactions, motivations, beliefs, agreements, etc that all add up to a complex foreign policy which in many ways dictates America's foreign affairs for her. The idea of going into Iraq has nothing to do with personal gain, nor of territorial acquisition, nor of trying to play international police where nobody has any business going - the facts are that if things continue as they are without intervention, people will die unnecessarily, the region would be destabilized, war could break out between those nations, next thing you see is a global economic impact, and then suddenly nations start pointing the blame finger for a souring global economy and "why didn't you go in there and moderate the situation when you had the chance?"

Well, that's what we're doing: moderating because, believe it or not, what happens there DOES have global impact despite no Canadians or Americans coming particularly to any direct harm bystanding and watching the fight unfold. It's the indirect consequences that are disconcerting.

... and personally, I find the idea barbaric if the international community took a stance of non-interference in ALL matters of conflict and stood by, like a great colliseum, staring down at madness unfolding in the pit below. Some might think it'd be terrific sport watching all those idiots terrorize one another, launching bombs and missles at each other until, one day, someone from below fires a missle out into the audience and then UH OH.. what do you do? You have a non-interference policy and suddenly you've just been drawn into the conflict.

It won't work. Purveyors of peace and stability are what the United Nations stands for and Canada, like every other nation, needs to be involved in that process.

matters of conflict and stood by, like a great colliseum, staring down at madness unfolding in the pit below. Some might think it'd be terrific sport watching all those idiots terrorize one another, launching bombs and missles at each other until, one day, someone from below fires a missle out into the audience and then UH OH

A good Example would be Pearl Harbor. U.S. sat and watched the word battle itself. Not wanting to become part of another world war - and then the UH OH happened when japan fired a missle into the audience.

A bullie is someone who terrorizes others. A bully once picked a fight with me. I punched him in the nose. He no longer bullied me.

Saddam is the bully because he terrorizes his people and neighbors and we are going to punch him in the nose.

And after we punch him in the nose, he will run away(exile).
The only problem is, getting to the Gym to punch him.

Sean, I do belive that Bush will be reelected. If I could vote I would vote for him, he has done an excellent job under the circumstances, I wonder where jessika, she has not been on in a long time...lol

Caps, I hope he is reelected however statistics show that will probably not be the case no matter how it turns out.

I don't know....I think if this is a successful war and we find these things that Saddam is hiding, I think his popularity will ski rocket. I wish I could vote.

Bet his popularity would raise if Nukes were found

vilance raise every ones popularity.. remindes me of a song.. something about dirty laundry.. but any one think if we kill him if he'll reach marter status.. just wondering

If they find Nukes his popularity would soar...that would shut the left up LOL.

I think the US and UK would like to capture and take Saddam alive to learn the location of underground labs and caves.

do you think sddam would let him self be taken alive.. he is prity wacked out.. and if our troops do get to him alive.. who knows what the troops will do.. i'd probly shoot him on princable..for starting the hole thing or if not for starting it.. at least for playing along

true...lol

HAHAH I bet you would Uncle Billy - I bet the kids that live near you are afraid of you right?

yes i would.. and the kids love me to death from a distance..

HAHAHA hey im all for pulling our troops out of germany. Of course germany may not like that to much. You have any clue the Revenue the base in germany generates? It would strike a blow in their already weakened sociast economy. What do we have 30 thousand troops in south korea? not much more than that. Like that would stop 3millon crazy red koreans from over runnings the south. Again it is a form of aid. Our military base generates revenue. These countries are like teenagers . The minute we said fine we will pull our troops out they would cry NO NO NO. The troops in germany and south korea are their because we saved their asses from comunist rule after world war 2. But i have no problem with pulling toops out. They need to be put on the border. Oh how comedic it would be to see the world go to the dogs. The chaos it would cause. Believe me it would be no skin off our nose. Yes lets bring the clinton crusaders of Kosovo home so the serbians can actually defend themselves. Oh did i say that? I mean i hope no one really believes in the Genocide that the clintons tried to tell us. Bring them home. Im all for it. So the world can come crawling on their knees with big fat We are sorries. What the world thinks of us does not bother me. When the world does not need us to support them, as most nations of the world would be bankrupt without US busniess or aid, then we will respect their opinions. Why should a parent listen to the Child? Amusing to say the least. Thanks

The economies would suffer. Look what happened to Turkey for saying "no." Stock market went up, believing in a "yes vote," and then after the vote - down it went. Lower then it was BEFORE the first rise anticipation of the "yes vote."

Yes turkey is classic example. people need to understand these countries want to look indapendent of the US. And i cant balme them, but when it comes down to it they need the money generated by those bases. They are some what stuck, but hey we didnt tell Germany to go and turn , compassonite communist or communist lite, or socialst lol. France and Germany econmy is already in the crapper, because ours is struggling , but mostly because of their failed welfare programs. I read somewhere its against the law to fire someone in france. Now i dont know if this is true, but it is quite absurd. I wish i couldnt get fired. You think i would work very hard? LOL Communist Light. Or better yet communism without the walls lol.

That would be nice for when I get a job.

ok, the keyword is you are here in the US, overseas it is a lot different, especially with the newstations blaming every thing bad that happens on us.

Caps has a point there my friend.