Israel Wants to Expel Arafat - But Not Yet

Israel & Palestine Forum

Israel's security cabinet agreed in principle Thursday to exile Palestinian President Yasser Arafat, but not immediately, sources close to the government said.

One source said the security cabinet decided to ask the army to prepare a plan for Arafat's exile from the region but decided against swift expulsion because of U.S. opposition.

A senior Palestinian official denounced Israel's decision, saying exiling Arafat would destabilize the Middle East.

"Harming Arafat or expelling him will destabilize the region and will only bring disaster to the Israeli people," the official said.

The United States also opposed expelling Arafat, but for different reasons, saying it would give him greater publicity.

"We don't believe that dealing with Mr. Arafat ... through expulsion is going to be helpful at all with the situation," a State Department spokesman said.

"It would just give him another stage to play on."

The security cabinet, which groups top government ministers and security officials under Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, met to discuss how to respond to two Palestinian suicide bombings that killed 15 people in Israel Tuesday.

Israel and the United States accuse Arafat of fomenting violence in a 3-year Palestinian revolt against Israeli occupation. He denies the charge but Israel has confined him to his West Bank headquarters for most of the last 21 months.

Suicide bombings and Israeli attacks on Islamic militants have plunged the region into new bloodshed that has all but buried a U.S.-backed plan for establishing a Palestinian state.

Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom said before the security cabinet met that Israel should ignore U.S. objections and banish Arafat from the Palestinian territories.

"If we ask for such permission (from Washington), it will be virtually impossible to get it," Shalom told Army Radio.

DEFIANT BUT TRAPPED

Arafat remained defiant at his badly damaged headquarters in the city of Ramallah, where he has been confined by Israeli army blockades for most of the time since December 2001.

"They can kill me. They have bombs," he told reporters before the cabinet met.

Asked if he would leave, he said: "Definitely not. This is the terra sancta, the Holy land. Be sure the Palestinian people will face this aggression as they did from the beginning."

Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak earlier urged Israel not to opt for exile, saying the veteran leader was crucial for the Middle East peace process.

"Nobody can tell what would happen in the Palestinian territories if Arafat is expelled. Terrorism, violence will erupt everywhere," he told a news conference.

Former Israeli Prime Minister Shimon Peres also spoke against expulsion in Washington.

"I think it will be a mistake. Arafat out of the country will be more bitter and more negative," he said.

Arafat, 74, has denied U.S. and Israeli allegations he has encouraged bloodshed since Palestinians rose up against Israeli occupation in September 2000. He remains influential, despite U.S. and Israeli efforts to isolate him.

In a move that appeared to meet U.S. demands half-way, the Palestinian Authority announced it would unify its security forces under a new national security council that will include Arafat and incoming Palestinian prime minister Ahmed Qurie.

The United States has demanded the consolidation of the security forces but also called for their removal from Arafat's control as part of a crackdown on militants mandated by the peace "road map."

The security cabinet meeting got under way after Sharon cut short a trip to India and hurried home in response to the suicide bombings in Jerusalem and near Tel Aviv Tuesday.

The Israeli army commandeered a Palestinian Authority building overlooking Arafat's compound in Ramallah. An army spokesman said the position was one of several taken "to prevent Arafat having contact with terror groups."

In Ramallah, Qurie emerged from meetings on building a new government and said: "The Palestinian leadership and Fatah have decided that I should form a full cabinet as soon as possible."

Qurie replaces Mahmoud Abbas, a moderate who quit on Saturday complaining Arafat and Israel had undermined his peace efforts and that Washington had not given him enough support.

Source: Reuters

Maybe Israel will kill him? If they did that, you would think that Americans would finally see what an EVIL, APARTHEID, ROGUE Regime Israel really is...

...Nah! Americans are TOO STUPID and DON'T have a mind of there own, I hate Israel even more than I hate Satan W. Bush, but the two in bed together can only ignite 100 years of war! There will be no peace.

NothingSacred, it looks like he is still alive to me. Based on that you have to say that Israel has shown restraint that one would expect from a civilized nation. As for the palestenians, they have come out and said openly that they are attempting to assasinate sharon. I find it interesting that you hate Israel and the US, the only two countries in the world that are fighting terrorism instead of allowing it.
NothingSacred, i used to think that you were just a super liberal US hater, but now i'm starting to think you actually support terrorism. You HATE israel (anti-semitic maybe?) and you HATE "Satan W Bush," (that's almost like calling him an infidel isn't it?). With rhetoric like that you could do motivational speeches for hamas and al-quaida.
As for your comment "There will be no peace (with bush around)" It sounds like you want peace without justice ... that cure for violence is worse than the violence itself.

I hate Satan W. Bush, but I LOVE MY COUNTRY...the good 'ole US of A!

Israel MEANS NOTHING to me. Why should it? being their ally is more trouble than it's worth.

Anti-semetic? "F" you! Don't play the race card with me. There is no other country in the world today other than Israel that is allowed to dicriminate and run an Apartheid Society based on religion other than Israel. Many Palestinians are executed by the Israelis without due process, whil innocent victims standing next to them are blown up too.

The Palestinians are right to be mad! What if they want Arafat to lead them. What kind of democracy is Israel and Satan W. Bush calling for? Free elections if you vote for who we say? That would make me vote for Arafat, even if I hated him, just to make a statement equal to a middle finger in the air.

Israel is the root of most terrorism. Europe doesn't kiss Israel's butt like the US does, thats why they're not really in the middle of the "War on terrorism", If the US had an EVEN HANDED approach to the Palestinian/Israeli issue, and didn't take sides in it the hatred wouldn't be there as intense as it is.

NOthing sacred, Bush has said that he wants to create a palestenian state, and that has been the direction of this administration. The only problem is, palestenians keep bombing israelis.
You say "israel is the root of most terrorism" what you should have said is "israel is the location of most terrorism." It's humorous that you condemn israel for the innocents that die as they try to take out hamas leaders, but you sympathise with palestenians who target innocents to begin with - as many as they can get at a time. Why such a double standard? Anti-semitism doesn't sound like a race card to me, sounds like the only explanation.

You blame the Palestinians, I blame the Israelis for not really dismantling the settlements which is the part they're responsible for. The Israelis also "Target Innocents", when they shoot missiles into an apartment building from a plane to execute a Hamas leader without due process, do you think they're sure that no "innocents" are in there with him? Since he had no trial, is the "extremist" they're shooting at not presumed innocent until judged?

Israel is at war with terrorists, much like we are. When they attack hamas leaders they are defending themselves as a nation, not merely going after criminals. How many more lives would be lost on both sides if they sent troops in to capture all of these people?
Also, you have to be able to discern the difference between specifically targetting civilians, and having civilian casualties as a result of their proximity to military targets. Israel takes steps to minimize civilian casualties, palestenian terrorists take steps to maximize civilian casualties. Why can't you see the difference? Once again, your inability to make that very basic discernment is evidence of another agenda. ie. Hatred of Jews, Hatred of Israel because it will not stand for terrorism, Hatred of Israel because it is supported by the US, etc. Those are just a few off the top of my head. Your statement "i hate isreal more than i hate Satan W bush" is pretty telling of your character. The capacity to hate, which you know so well, is the reason we have all this bloodshed in the first place.

I can propose another point of view:
Israelis conquered and are occuping now the soil of the Arab state, meant by the UN in their resolution in 1947.

Because of this they are engaged in a guerilla war with Palestinians. The suicide bombings are effects of this war.

Since the Palestinians are too weak to win Israel and the Jews don't dare to genocide Palestinians competely, the hostilities will end ad infinitum.

The only solution may be the Korean variant which was discussed within the thread before.

I can also add that:
The Israel's force has a good background in US military and financial support. This leads to the universal hate of US by the Arabs living in Palestine and other countries alike. And this hate is a reason for radical Arabs to venture terrorist acts against the US.

Israel has been defending itself since 1947 when the land, what the Israels call home, was given to them through a UN resolution. Not to long after that Israels surrounding Arab nations declared war on Israel. Israel defended itself thereby defeating the Arab countries which attacked and has since then pissed off arab muslims since then. Israel had every right to defend and do as they please for the situation they are in.

So let Israel enjoy terroristic acts further

All i can say barbed wire is that thank goodness the Israelis don't have the point of view of the palestenians and its other arab neighbors. If it did, you WOULD see genocide on thier part ... which is exactly what we would see if Israel is ever overrun by terrorists and its other enemies that surround it but don't aknowledge its existence.
Are you suggesting that Israel shouldn't defend itself? The rhetoric of whom they are fighting isn't "let's kick these people off land that is ours," it is, "let's kill every last one of these infidels." How can one reason with that? That is exactly why the peace process hasn't worked.

I agree that there should be a palestenian state, so does president bush, and even sharon hasn't discounted the possibility. But the palestenians have to realize that the best way for them to get there is not through terrorism, but through diplomacy. To do this they need new leadership, which is i think what this forum was originally about. ARafat has to go ... the palestenians need a leader who absolutely will not tolerate terrorism, because he knows that it is detrimental to his people.
The palestenians have a right to be mad, but they do not have a right to express their anger with murder.
The main problem in that region is that both sides are too quick to look for reasons to retaliate than they are to look for positive signs.

Look, Israel is a modern organised state while Palestine isn't.

An Israelite doesn't have an option not to obey the laws since there is police and army and etc. So, if you agree on something with the Israeli Prime Minister, I can be sure this will be done.
Arafat is just a popular politician, but he cannot do anything to say, Hamas, if they don't obey their orders.
The diplomacy won't work either.

So give them their part: Western Bank and Gaza and live without bombings. If you want, of course.

But the issue is compicated. Palestine was inhabited in the beginning of XX centrury mainly by Arabs, not by Jews, the majority of them left Palestine 2000 years before. Than they began to land there:

in 1932 in Palestine there were 184K Jews
in 1938 (after start of the persecution of Jews in Nazi Germany) 414K
in 1947 - 650k (one third of total population).

That process is the main reason for the Palestinian Arabs to hate the Jews.

Addition: regardless of the fact if the Palestinian state is founded or not Western Bank and Gaza must be fenced out anyway.

That's the only option to stop the violence.

If Arafat was leave then the Israelis would end up makinh him an Icon a reason for more attacks anybody with any sense can see that, that is why you have got all these politicians from the US and ex israeli cabinet ministers warning against it.
I cant condone terrorism but unless I am wrong Palestine does not have any military to speak of, so the only option to most is to use bombers put yourself in the shoes of some of these people if your country had been overun and your people had been pushed back, you would want to strike out anyway you could, and I am pretty sure that it was always meant ot be the stste of Israel and the country of Palestine unless I'm wrong, yet somehow it all got mixed up.
The only option is to fence the two of them in, and have all countries cease trade with both until a peacefull and long term solution can be found, do that and see how quick the bombings stop and how quick the tanks fall back.

Where do you get such grass??

Dont really know just always been this way.
BTW I see that the US veteoed a resolution on rejecting the Israel threat to expel arafat because the resolution will not condemm the terrorists. despite overwhelming support from the members eleven for and three abstaining with one against, also around 40 speakers condemming Israel for the threat.

Yeah but it probably won't last long.

...and teach the Palestinians the same, as well. As I know, statistically, the percentage of Israeli citizens who wish peace with Palestinians is higher than of Palestinians who wish peace with Israelis.

Yeahh but you know what they say about statistics.

Yes, you're right about the most, except for a small detail in the part where you say that militant organizations want to achieve freedom, human rights and a viable state. This state that they want to achieve is the whole Israel, west bank & the Gaza strip, or at least that's what their organization's symbol shows (IE. Hamas - guns, Palestinian flag and the land of what was previously called Palestine) and that's what their organization's leaders said during demonstrations, Israeli retaliation and other events. (IE. Ranteesi, when escaped an assasination attempt said that Hamas would make sure there be no Zionist left on this land) I don't recall any Israeli politicians saying such things about Palestinians, except one, whose party was expelled from the Israeli government in 1991 for being too extremist.

Actually talks with Hamas leaers and others have showen that many know that, the Elimination of Israel is simply impossible I suspect all in their hearts all do. They do regard the creation of Isreal as illegal and definitely against their interests.
The ANC ( as a terrorist organisation) wanted a one part state The IRA wanted reunionuification of the North with the south.
I am confident that a genuine attempt to talk to them and provide them with some sort of fairness they cannot get their (full) entitlement can lead to a solution.
I could point out to you ant-jihad that many of your founders and politicians have happily showen racist attitudes to Palestinians. You have a current cabinet minister who is on the record as wanting to remove all palestinians from the west bank too. I've actually seen him on TV saying it and yes I have forgotten his name dammit!
The founding fatjher of Zionism Herzl wanted an exclusive state for Jews when he realised that there were people there he realised the residents would have to be 'spirited away'
Since then the Israeli Authorities tell us unceasingly that they have repudiated these beliefs. Therefore the responsibilty for carrying out these actions must fall on the Palestinians.
What greater love can exist than this Anti? than that the palestinians can carry out a plan, for over a century. of your founders that is to zionist benefit and their detrement.?
Deeds speak louder than words!

Is it just me or is Israel playing a very dangerous game fist you have the bombing raid on Syria and now fighting with Lebanese troops. It might just go one battle to far and a majority of the Arab states may rise up and retaliate, plus the action taken against Syria and Lebanon cannot help the coalition in Iraq either.

Who is going to retaliate Mubarak is too busy, and getting paid to oppress his own people. why would he want to take on outsiders. Jordan is too weak and its king recentky had his lipps surgically attached to Bushes butt. The Saudis are little more than a corrupt Talean with oil, who are dead scared of offending America any more, and war might interrupt the eating anyway. and Syria haas no money no oil and is so used to getting its but kikced by Israel that their official next war stratergy is to drop their pants and bend over.

You don't think that if it came to a war and Syria was as you so humanely put it "getting it's butt kicked" by Americas best mate that people in Iraq would be delighted to see thier muslim brothers etc being killed off by the Israelis while the US does nothing. Because that is what they would do and as for help you dont think Iran and Egypt and Lebanon might get involved plus the fact that I am pretty sure that if Syria was attacked then a lot more countries from further afield might get involved.

remeber that the middle east is an unstable place and any more attacks by Israel is going to make it more unstable. Plus I am pretty sure that bombing another country as a warning is illegal under intl law or is it that if you are Americas pal you are above the law.

Sorry lodgebo I understand but I disagree the aim of the despots is to hold power and most arabs know america and Israel collectively are too powerful for them and the U.S. is so dertermined to be afraid of the fundamentalists that it would rather have friendly despots than democracy. put it bluntly if the Arabs take on the U.S. and Israel they'll lose and they know it !

The Arabs need democracy to get good government and national and Islam fundamentalism by the very nature of it is very much part of the debate. Uultimately the despots and the U.S. are united against fundamentalism. if that means against the arab people so be it!

And who the hell are you or the US to tell the Arabs what they need

I'm me I have an opinion thats it and if you want to tell me that the despots have been good for the various arab countries go ahead my point is it should be arab not U.S. democracy the Arabs to decide its form

But that is what I am saying if Israel takes an agreesive stance on countries like Syria etc and the US helps Israel then it will not be Arabs making the decisons.
What you said about Israel and the US fighting together that would probably lead to WW3 if Israel attcked for instance Syria for no reason then the UN and NATO would have to seriously consider going and helping the country/ people being attacked the question is would the US go against the UN and NAto and could they financially afford another war.

Mind you this is all hypothetical and we would not be discussing it had Israel not broken international law.

there is a difference between having an official religion relativist and an apartheid state. its not the existance of the jeweish State thats objectionable its the fact that they had to displace the native inhabbitants to do it they they try to either deny or justify it.
My arguement is about applying the same standards to all himan beings
I do not believ Israel as a state has any intention to do that and b y the way that is causing Jewish deaths too.
I dont need to belive palestiians are 100 % just to recognise that they are the victims here they don't have the power they don't commit the majority of the crimes!

I think the ideal solution to the Arab Israel Problem would be for the Arab states to form a business partnership with Israel to use the oil money to transform the whole region into a modern civilized country where all participants would share in the fruits of intelligent co=existence. Terrorism never works. War is idiotic. Commerce has always won out over hateful actions. If they would all cooperate with each other=they all would be winers.

I think the ideal solution to the Arab Israel Problem would be for the Arab states to form a business partnership with Israel to use the oil money to transform the whole region into a modern civilized country where all participants would share in the fruits of intelligent co=existence. Terrorism never works. War is idiotic. Commerce has always won out over hateful actions. If they would all cooperate with each other=they all would be winers.

I think your idea has merit. Welcome to the Board Becker. I am sure you will find a lot to talk about w9ith a lot of nice people.
Delta

What would interest you for me to talk about?

SCREW YOU ALL WHO STAND UP FOR ISRAEL. THAT LAND BELONGS TO PALESTINE. sigh im getting tired. good night.
DOWN WITH ISRAEL, UP WITH PALESTINE, UP WITH MUSLIMS AND JEWS.

Remember the Arabs attacked Israel without provacation and Israel defeated them. To the victor belongs the spoils.

the palestinians fought Isreal because their land and their rights were being removed from them withoiout asking them.
And your belief that to the victor go the spoils iis one you share with Hitler and Saddam Hussein in 1990. Aparrantly you are just yet another white supremacist.

Please read up on the 1967 7-day war before you reach the wrong conclusions. Saddam lost Hitler lost. Israel won. All those countries ganging up up one one small country--what a disgrace-read the Plo Doctrine.........

the history of jeews migrating to palestine goes far back past 1967. Hitler and saddam lost because a whole group of countries ganed up against them and overwhenled them. in part (in both cases) using the princiopple that superior force did not allow one nation to dominate another., this principle has totally been abandoned with regard to Israel the difference being that Jews are seen as white or honourary white where as palestinians are towel heads or sand ******s. What about your defence of this does not make you a white supremacist? and incidentally in 1967 the israelis attacked first. perhaps you need to read up on 1967!

I'd rather be on record as believing the arab myths than be on record admiting the Israelis attacked first and trying to pretend they were attacked., the first makes me look like an observer of the facts, the second makes you look like a silly bs artist. the Egypts may have closed the straits and expelled U.N troops from what was their terrirtory but those were not acts of war. the Israeli Attack was an act of war. and you yourself admit this. Calling the israeli attac k an arab myth after you admit it happened simply turns YOU into a fool.

Here are the FACTS:

Lastly, you ignore the fact that the Arabs struck first in 1948, and in 1973. It must be that this Arab aggressiveness was just a coincidence, and the Jews were being needlessly nervous!

In 1948 there is considerable doubt that Arab Armies invaded Palestine to areas beyond what was allocated to poalestine under the U. N. resolution. the bulk of any fighting was done in poalestinian areas
you of course forget 1956 where Israel was involved in an attack on Egypt
Maybe the Israelis where as you suggest nervous in 1967 about the attack that would take place in 1973 but since it caught them with their pants down somehow I doubt it.
However if provocation was your causus belli the fact that Israel was occupying areas of Eygpt Sryria and Jordan should be provocation enough for you |I think you'll find they only attacked areas that were occupied by Israel. lets see you be consistant and apply the proviocation defence equally.

Man--Dragon-and to think I wanted to use your name as a Junior!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And you have Yet to admit that the invading Arab Armies in 1948, 1967 (you know, the ones that were standing there along the border brandishing their weapons), and 1973 had the full intention of destroying Israel, with the full intention of destroying its whole population.