Refugees, but not really.

Israel & Palestine Forum

You have heard about those "Palestinian refugees," who claim "right of return" to Israel. Of course, virtually none of them ever lived in Israel -- they are the children and mostly grandchildren of those who fled in 1948. The total number of those who fled in 1948 is estimated to have been about 650,000. Now the number who wish to return has swollen to almost five million!
How did this exodus come about? In 1948, on the day of the proclamation of the State of Israel, five Arab armies invaded the new country from all sides. In frightful radio broadcasts, they urged the Arabs living there to leave, so that the invading armies could operate without interference. They could return after the expected quick victory in that "holy war," get their property back -- and that of the Jews. Things turned out differently. The invading armies were defeated. Those who had left became refugees -- people without a country. Those who stayed, and their children, are full-fledged citizens of the State of Israel.
These so-called "Palestinian refugees" have not been allowed to settle in the "indivisible Arab nation." They have been supportd in camps since 1948. So far, close to $1.8 billion has been spent on their maintenance. No end is in sight. Who pays for that? You guessed it: Through UNWRA Relief, the United States contributes more than 60% of the total cost.
The Arab countries, among them some of the richest in the world who fritter away their enormous fortunes on undreamed luxuries, are satisfied to leave their Arab brethren in those miserable camps. They have never contributed a penny to their maintenance.
But there is another side to the "refugee" story. Little is heard of the 800,000 Jewish refugees from Arab countries, who fled those countries to settle in the newly formed Jewsh State of Israel. Every one of these refugees was immediately accepted, resettled, taken care of, and given full citizenship by the fledgling, impoverished, and embattled Jewish State. There never has been, and there certainly is not now, a Jewish "refugee" camp in Israel or anywhere else.
The Arab "refugees" who fled Israel left little wealth and little history, since most of them had not come to "Palestine" until Jewish settlers opened economic opportunities in what had been a desolate country for centuries. But the Jews of Arab lands have a history going back thousands of years. When forced to flee, they left behind land, wealth, and a long history. They arrived in Israel, qute literally only "with their shirts on their backs." They now make up almost 60% of the vibrant and productive population of Israel. What have the Arabs, the richest people in the world, done with their "refugees" in more than 50 years? They have kept them in misery, on the dole of the world, and have taught their hopeless youth the "skills" of suicide missions and of slaughtering defenseless and unarmed men, women, and children.
If the Arab nations truly decided to make peace with Israel and to put an end to the century-long strife, they could easily accomplish it by accepting the "Palestinin refugees" in their countries and, just as Israel did with Jewish refugees from Arab countries, integrating them into their societies and making useful citizens of them. In fact, acceptance in their countries might also be offered to the Israeli Arabs, who, despite enjoying a higher standard of living, education, and health than Arabs in any of the surrounding countries and despite having the same civil rights as Israeli Jews, are not happy to live in a Jewish state.
It is clear that the "Palestinian refugee problem" is a red herring, kept alive by the Arab nations, including Iraq which supports suicide bombers, for their political purposes. It is being kept alive and is being used as a "non-negotiable" barganin chip, for the purpose of destroying the State of Israel and diverting attention away from the real problems. If the Arab nations were willing to solve the "refugee problem," the legitimacy of Israel could no longer be questioned. But that is not acceptable to the Arabs. By making a big stink and diverting attention away from the real issues, such as Iraq's notorious human rights violations, mideast dictators have manufactured an entire conflict. It is that, and that alone, which is the real cause of the "Palestinian refugee problem."
Those who say, "If you solve the Israeli problem, then the rest of the middle east will fall in order," are thinking exactly what the tyrant of Babylon wants them to.

It's a front!

Wow! If only everyone were as enlightened as you!

True. I'll have to agree with you Oats95.

"[QUOTE]Originally posted by Oats95
[B]You have heard about those "Palestinian refugees," who claim "right of return" to Israel. Of course, virtually none of them ever lived in Israel -- they are the children and mostly grandchildren of those who fled in 1948.


The logic of a facist Oats your mother must be proud... Using your logic then no Jewish person would have the right to return either as the majority of them had never lived their either!

"The total number of those who fled in 1948 is estimated to have been about 650,000. Now the number who wish to return has swollen to almost five million!""

I think you'll find the reason it has grown is called Sex and big families... or maybe you have been advised not to breed and have no knowledge of this strange function...



"How did this exodus come about? In 1948, on the day of the proclamation of the State of Israel, five Arab armies invaded the new country from all sides. In frightful radio broadcasts, they urged the Arabs living there to leave, so that the invading armies could operate without interference. "

Partly right, they were urged to leave after The Stern, The Irgun Zwei Leumi and Haganah massacred the village of Deir Yassin. They were told to leave... But by Israelis who told them to expect the same...

"They could return after the expected quick victory in that "holy war," get their property back -- and that of the Jews. Things turned out differently. The invading armies were defeated. Those who had left became refugees -- people without a country. Those who stayed, and their children, are full-fledged citizens of the State of Israel."

Wrong again they are not fully fledged citizens of Israel as they are not Jewish... They have to carry ID cards, have different coloured license plates and are not allowed to purchase land. They are also forbidden to serve in the IDF but dont let the truth get in the way of a good fairy tale...


"These so-called "Palestinian refugees" have not been allowed to settle in the "indivisible Arab nation." They have been supportd in camps since 1948. So far, close to $1.8 billion has been spent on their maintenance. No end is in sight. Who pays for that? You guessed it: Through UNWRA Relief, the United States contributes more than 60% of the total cost."

I think you will find that Arabs who live in Arab countries do quite well. Palestinians per capita are one of the highest educated in the world. The problem is in the Camps which are in land that Israel occupied (ie.. the West Bank and Gaza) where Israel has juristiction. Does Israel pay for Jews who happen to be poor in the rest of the world? But you think Arabs are wrong for doing likewise... ? Hypocrit?


"The Arab countries, among them some of the richest in the world who fritter away their enormous fortunes on undreamed luxuries, are satisfied to leave their Arab brethren in those miserable camps. They have never contributed a penny to their maintenance."

I quite agree it is a disgrace. Americans do it everyday to poor who live in our inner city slums, glad to see your a socialist.


"But there is another side to the "refugee" story. Little is heard of the 800,000 Jewish refugees from Arab countries, who fled those countries to settle in the newly formed Jewsh State of Israel. Every one of these refugees was immediately accepted, resettled, taken care of, and given full citizenship by the fledgling, impoverished, and embattled Jewish State. There never has been, and there certainly is not now, a Jewish "refugee" camp in Israel or anywhere else."

Of course not... If America funded the arabs states pro rata as they do Israel the Arabs would be poverty free as well... Do you ever wonder how an economy based on Oranges and Olives survives...???



"The Arab "refugees" who fled Israel left little wealth and little history, since most of them had not come to "Palestine" until Jewish settlers opened economic opportunities in what had been a desolate country for centuries. But the Jews of Arab lands have a history going back thousands of years. When forced to flee, they left behind land, wealth, and a long history. They arrived in Israel, qute literally only "with their shirts on their backs." They now make up almost 60% of the vibrant and productive population of Israel. What have the Arabs, the richest people in the world, done with their "refugees" in more than 50 years? They have kept them in misery, on the dole of the world, and have taught their hopeless youth the "skills" of suicide missions and of slaughtering defenseless and unarmed men, women, and children."

Do you work for the Israeli government or what? Arabs no History? No Arabs in Palestine before the 1870s? You have just became a historical revisionist of Holocaust denial fame... The Crusaders fought who in Palestine exactly? Suicide mission in Israel is a relatively new event... What has been your excuse in the years when mostly only Palestinians were killed... How come 3 times as many Palestinians (most of whom are under 16) have been killed as Israelis...?

"If the Arab nations truly decided to make peace with Israel and to put an end to the century-long strife, they could easily accomplish it by accepting the "Palestinin refugees" in their countries and, just as Israel did with Jewish refugees from Arab countries, integrating them into their societies and making useful citizens of them. In fact, acceptance in their countries might also be offered to the Israeli Arabs, who, despite enjoying a higher standard of living, education, and health than Arabs in any of the surrounding countries and despite having the same civil rights as Israeli Jews, are not happy to live in a Jewish state."

So it was America and Britains fault for not letting the immigration of German jews in WWII that the holocaust happened? That these nations should just forget Israeli attrocities because western dictators demand so... Let fascism flourish is that your motto...? If the turks would only have let the kurds in then Saddam wouldnt have had to gas them...


"It is clear that the "Palestinian refugee problem" is a red herring, kept alive by the Arab nations, including Iraq which supports suicide bombers, for their political purposes. It is being kept alive and is being used as a "non-negotiable" barganin chip, for the purpose of destroying the State of Israel and diverting attention away from the real problems."

And Israel could solve it tommorow by stop persecuting civilians. Do you not think Israel manipulates the suicide bombers also?

"If the Arab nations were willing to solve the "refugee problem," the legitimacy of Israel could no longer be questioned. But that is not acceptable to the Arabs. "

I think most Arab nations now recognise Israel and its right to exist including the PALESTINIANS...

"By making a big stink and diverting attention away from the real issues, such as Iraq's notorious human rights violations, mideast dictators have manufactured an entire conflict. It is that, and that alone, which is the real cause of the "Palestinian refugee problem." Those who say, "If you solve the Israeli problem, then the rest of the middle east will fall in order," are thinking exactly what the tyrant of Babylon wants them to. "

Human right violations... Like what they do in Israel? or Turkey? or in Belfast... or maybe what they do in Guantamano bay... or saddams regime....

Look to your self before blaming everybody else... Your bigotry and hatred is what fuels this problem as much as everything else...

wrong you are, marc. it is people like him who bring to a balance, becuase there are so many people who are out to get israel. if he were to point out all of israels' flaws, would you say anything? i believe not. and that is what makes you the biget. thank you. good day

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MARCUS
"[B]wrong you are, marc. it is people like him who bring to a balance

Your argument is crazy Marcus... So a person can warp Historical fact to back his argument even if he is talking nonsense? So if a nazi historical revisionist says the holocaust is a hoax and 6 million Jews didnt die you would support him because he gives the argument about the holocaust "balance"

The truth is Marcus a holocaust revisionist is wrong because Nazi Germany did murder all those Jews. This guy is wrong because his history is wrong.

"becuase there are so many people who are out to get israel. if he were to point out all of israels' flaws, would you say anything? i believe not. "

Ok Marcus what do you want me to say... That Israel is a wonderful little country and Jaffa oranges are great. That Israel is wonderful because the ICQ was invented in Israel? the fact their goverment and armed forces commit slaughter daily is irrlevant?

Would you say Nazi Germany and Hitler were nice as they made the German trains run on time, built Autobahns and invented the Volkswagens? That the Nazi found so many cures for diseases so they were really not that bad...even though they tortured Jewish people and filled them full of germs and used them as human guinea pigs?

Im sorry im not a hypocrit Marcus... A Nazi is still a nazi even if they achieved lots and a Zionist is still a nazi for the same reason... You might not like the word or rhetoric i use but that is because you cant face your own hypocrisy...


"and that is what makes you the biget. thank you. good day"

I am a bigot... I hate Hypocites, Facists and murderers of children and civilians...

Yes. It seems that some Palestinians are very good at pointing world's attention to their misery. I've heard some reports how some journalists were threatened they would be killed if they reported any anti-palestinian events. I don't know if it's true though.

It's all about the truth. If ALL the truth is revealed to the world, all the real criminals will be revealed too. If the truth is hiding in the shadow, the real criminals will be hiding behind it and injustice will go on.

I admit that I don't know the whole truth, but since I'm in the area of the conflict I at least now a big part of it, which, if the rest of the world knew, would change world's opinion about this conflict.

The other part of the truth should be revealed too, it may change my views and the views of each one of you. Too bad that the media cannot report everything, too bad there's no way to know the whole truth but only after years, when it becomes history, (and even then, some truth may not present) and until then many become the victims of this injustice, their lives cannot be brought back, history can't be changed.