Right Wingers APOLOGIZE

Post-9/11 Era Forum

Well, it looks like the wimpy, irrelevant UN Security Council was right, the cheese-eating surrender-monkey French were right, the British people (as opposed to their government) were right, and those hate-America peacenik anti-war demonstrators were right.

The Iraq war has degenerated into a complete disaster, an utterly unwinnable quagmire that threatens to become a treasury-emptying ten year guerilla war that will kill thousands, and - as an added bonus - become a enormously successful recruiting device for the Islamic fundamentalists who want to drive both America and Israel from the Middle East. So take a bow, Susan Sarandon and Janeane Garofalo - you called it. You were right on the money but unfortunately the powers that be didn't listen to you.

But don't expect any apologies from the Bill O'Reillys and the Sean Hannitys and the Rush Limbaughs (the ones who, of course, had it totally wrong). Being a right-wing jerk means never having to say you're sorry, and the aforementioned crowd will now scream that the war just needs more time and that eventually Iraq will become a model pro-American Middle Eastern nation with a freely elected pro-American government. But they probably know that that is just an absurd pipe-dream, and that the end of this misguided adventure is likely to be even uglier than it is at present. They'll never say so, of course, because to admit that would be to admit that people like Sheryl Crow were dead right. And that is something they could never do.

As a truck bomb blew up a hotel that housed UN headquarters in Baghdad on Tuesday the myth of "Mission Accomplished," already on the critical list, exploded at the same time. Frantically, the little man who is supposed to be in charge of the situation was dragged from the golf course to make an obligatory statement. (It wouldn't have looked good for him to be lining up a putt while the bodies were being pulled from the burning building.)

Rushed in front of a teleprompter he made a speech worthy of William Westmoreland during the Tet offensive: "Every sign of progress in Iraq adds to the desperation of the terrorists and the remnants of Saddam's brutal regime." Yep, he's still fighting Saddam, and now those blown apart bodies just go to show he's got him right where he wants him. And he continues to maintain the fiction that this is all about helping the Iraqis - the bombers are "the enemies of every nation that seeks to help the Iraqi people." But some people, like, for example, Helen Thomas, knew from the start that bombing and invading people was a strange way to go about helping them.

And people like Helen were loudly berated and abused for their warnings, as was Representative Jim McDermott who visited Baghdad last fall in an effort to mediate the situation and maybe avert war. Conservatives reacted with horror and indignation when he suggested that the administration would lie to create a rationale for the war if they didn't have one. But that's exactly what happened, isn't it ? There were the trumped up stories of weapons of mass destruction that turned out to be non-existent. There was the "yellowcake" from Niger that they slipped into the State of the Union speech knowing it was untrue, the drone aircraft that were going to drop WMDs on the US even though they had a range of only a couple hundred miles, the aluminum tubes that weren't really for a nuclear program. All were deliberate attempts to deceive the public into supporting the war – in other words they were lies. But I have a feeling nobody has called Rep. McDermott to say that they were wrong to call him a traitor.

And as calamitous as things are now they may indeed get quite a bit worse since the neocon cabal that brought us the war is in no mood to start admitting that it might have been a bad idea. In the words of Robert Byrd, "it is becoming all too clear that the smiling face of the U.S. as liberator is quickly assuming the scowl of an occupier," and that scowl gives the terrorists exactly the recruiting tool they need to blow up more buildings and kill more US soldiers. But Bush and the neocons will never acknowledge that Byrd and Jimmy Carter and the others who opposed this travesty were right. So more US soldiers will die and be wounded, as well as more Iraqis and journalists and UN officials (if the UN doesn't simply terminate its humanitarian mission after Tuesday's bombing).

So an already disastrous policy will be continued just to save face. The classic mistake of Vietnam will be repeated. And we will be told the policy is working even though it is clearly not.

And those of us who saw how wrong this all was can only say "I told you so." But just like in Vietnam the killing won't stop any time soon and it will tragically be a long time before the day when helicopters airlift the last Americans from the roof of the embassy. And even when that happens the perpetrators won't accept the blame, they'll try to blame Natalie Maines and Jacques Chirac.

But by then everyone will know better.

Rant.

And now 3 British soldiers were killed in "peaceful" Basra. The Vietnam-style lies continue...

VOICES OF FREEDOM

"Iraq used to be a developed country, and it will be again. It's a very rich country."
-- Sami Thami, acting director of Islam Bank in Baghdad, Los Angeles Times, August 13, 2003

"Before the war people were nervous. They didn't know the future. Now they feel it's time to buy."
-- Noel Jonan, manager of an appliance store in Baghdad, Los Angeles Times, August 13, 2003

"I was quite afraid. Now we can offer much more, and so people buy more."
-- Mohammed Kassim, who now sells once-banned movies and CDs at his Baghdad shop, Los Angeles Times, August 13, 2003

"I'm satisfied that Iraq will change into a free economic market."
-- Humam Shamaa, a Baghdad University economics professor, Los Angeles Times, August 13, 2003

"We have no experience in this, governing a democracy. It's a little like raising a child. But we can do it."
-- Nasir Chaderchi, member of the Iraqi Governing Council, The New York Times, August 12, 2003

"Saddam is gone. His prisons and palaces are gone. Look at all the happy faces of the people."
-- Song sung by Iraqis greeting relatives returning from exile, The New York Times, August 11, 2003

"Now we have freedom in all ways. But the freedom has its own limits."
-- Abdul Rahman al-Murshidi, a comic actor in Iraq, The New York Times, August 10, 2003

"The day they buried Uday Hussein was the day Iraqi football rose again. High in the mountains of southern Saudi Arabia the nation whose players had been tortured for years by Saddam's psychotic son have rediscovered their pride, dignity and ability not only to win again but also to play without fear."
-- The Independent (London), August 10, 2003

"It is as if a great weight has been lifted from us. No more terror in our players' eyes. No more returning home to pain and humiliation if our boys are defeated. Now we are free to play the game all Iraqis love as we would wish."
-- Ali Riyah, an Iraqi sports journalist and former torture victim, The Independent (London), August 10, 2003

"Under Uday we lost all contact with the football world. He did not allow courses for referees or coaches, no books to help us. Now we are free again and must look to the future."
-- Najah Hryib, president of the new Iraqi Football Federation, The Independent (London), August 10, 2003

"We have not yet decided on the day, but it will probably be at the beginning of October. We will start by mid-October for sure."
-- Hatim Attila al-Rubayi, deputy president of Baghdad University, on resuming classes, Al-Bawaba, August 10, 2003

"Me, I love the Americans."
-- Atheer al-Ani, who runs a video store in Baghdad, The New York Times, August 8, 2003

"Sometimes I think the only reason I survived was to tell people what happened. It has been a long time, but I think now I can be happy. Saddam is in the dustbin of history, and the black cloud has gone from the Iraqi sky."
-- Wais Abdel Qadr, survivor of the chemical attacks on Halabja, The Washington Post, August 7, 2003

"Saddam wanted to kill us all, but now he's gone and the Americans have come to bring us law and democracy."
-- Jamil Azad, owner of a tea shop in Halabja, The Washington Post, August 7, 2003

"Halabja was once a beautiful and historic place. We had famous poets, and we took many heroic stands. When Saddam fell, everyone here fired shots in the air."
-- Jamil Abdulrahman Mohammed, mayor of Halabja, The Washington Post, August 7, 2003

"We can't just fight the US because they are American; the people must give them a chance. Before the war, we couldn't have the internet, satellite TV or sat phones. There is all this technology in the world that we have been denied."
-- Mohammed Suphi, an Iraqi interpreter for the Americans, The Age (Melbourne), August 7, 2003

"In the 35 years that he ruled, Saddam poisoned Iraqis about the US. The Americans have been here for only four months ... The Kuwaitis worked with the US for 13 years to fix their war damage ... so we have to be patient."
-- Omar al-Captain, an Iraqi interpreter for the Americans, The Age (Melbourne), August 7, 2003

"Sometimes, when they [neighbors] see me, they think I am a ghost. They look and say, 'You live!'"
-- Dr. Ibrahim al-Basri, Saddam's former physician who was imprisoned for 13 years after refusing to join the parliament, The Boston Globe, August 7, 2003

"I am fighting for democracy. I am going to do my best. I am not afraid of any person. The only one I'm afraid of is God."
-- Ibrahim al-Jaafari, first president of the Governing Council, Chicago Tribune, August 7, 2003

"We suffered 35 years. Now the best job is done, there is no more Saddam Hussein and his regime."
-- Yonadam Kanna, leader of the Assyrian Democratic Movement and member of the Governing Council, Christian Science Monitor, August 7, 2003

"I did not think this day would come. It is a great thing."
-- Sadiq Al Mosawy, an exile returning to Iraq from Australia, Herald Sun (Melbourne), August 6, 2003

"Baghdadis now freely surf the Internet and send e-mail without a government official pacing behind them."
-- The New York Times, August 5, 2003

"Iraqis are very thirsty to learn what is happening outside of Iraq."
-- Abbas Darwish, owner of a Baghdad shop that sells newspapers, The New York Times, August 5, 2003

"Recruitment for Iraq's post-Saddam army started on July 19, and this week, a two-month basic training course gets underway to produce its first 1,000-strong light-armoured mechanised infantry battalion."
-- Agence France-Presse, August 5, 2003

"I can put my head on the pillow and sleep deeply. I can rest now."
-- Ayad Hosni, a barber in Baghdad, Knight Ridder, August 5, 2003

"But neighborhoods in and around Baghdad, staggering from uneven electrical power and water supply, also buzz with normal summer delights. Ice-cream stands are jammed, soccer fields swirl with the dust of matches and bookstores down from the Shabandar [cafe] are open all hours and selling posters of imams and politicians once-reviled by the ousted regime. Booksellers grin when asked about their new reality."
-- Chicago Tribune, August 5, 2003

"You never knew who was sitting next to you. In the past no one would dare to just speak out. Now everybody is talking. About federalism, about a monarchy. ... I think our aims are just one, to eliminate persecution for anyone ever again."
-- Jafar Adel Amr, a tool salesman in Iraq, Chicago Tribune, August 5, 2003

"I can't be optimistic or pessimistic. I don't want to say we can do it or we'll do it well. But the way we've suffered in the past 30 years, we will try to create a new way."
-- Jafar Adel Amr, at the Shabandar cafe in Baghdad, Chicago Tribune, August 5, 2003

"Iraq without its marshes is like the United States without the Grand Canyon. One of the communities that suffered the most under Saddam is the marsh Iraqis. If we're ever going to see justice done in Iraq, part of that justice is restoring these peoples' way of life. This is a matter that goes beyond the environment."
-- Azzam Alwash, an Iraqi exile who has returned to Iraq to restore the wetlands, Los Angeles Times, August 5, 2003

"Iraq is now free and the hawza [or religious school] in Najaf enjoys a free environment like never before, where we can discuss anything and new ideas will certainly flourish."
-- Ayatollah Seyed Hassan Khomeini, grandson of Ayatollah Khomeini, The Wall Street Journey, August 4, 2003

"He's a bad guy who has been suppressing his people for 35 years. He needed to go."
-- Nizar A. Zhaiya, who recently returned to his native Iraq, Associated Press, August 4, 2003

"I used to serve sick people, but when I discovered my country was sick I came to politics. I hope to see my country treated, so I can return to a hospital and put my stethoscope back on."
-- Ibrahim al-Jafari, current president of the Iraqi Governing Council, Associated Press, August 4, 2003

"If Saddam had stayed in his seat, we would have gone to a third or fourth war. He made us go from war to war."
-- Omar Hussein al-Azawi, an Iraqi soldier who lost his legs in the invasion of Kuwait, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, August 3, 2003

"For the first summer in several years, Iraqis ages 12 to 14 are not attending military-style boot camps that Saddam Hussein used as indoctrination into his oppressive machine."
-- Chicago Tribune, August 3, 2003

"We have to be ashamed that we allowed children to go through that [Saddam's summer camps]. But we had no choice, only to go along."
-- Zayneb Waleed Babab, a teacher at an Iraqi orphanage, Chicago Tribune, August 3, 2003

"The only way for me to leave was to escape the country. If I had just quite and gone home, I was afraid that the people who worked for him [Uday] would have stalked me and killed me."
-- Uday's former bodyguard, Los Angeles Times, August 2, 2003

"Freedom is much sweeter. I can get up in the morning and decide whether I want to shave or not; if someone in my family is sick, I can stay home with them. I don't need to ask permission."
-- Salim Kasim, one of Uday's chief mechanics, Los Angeles Times, August 2, 2003

"It brings us to the future, this train."
-- Mohsin al Naif, watching the first train pull into Rabiyah in over a year, Associated Press, July 31, 2003

"Their textbooks were filled with Hussein's regime as well: Math texts substituted S and H for the variables X and Y, reading comprehension paragraphs discussed 'Zionist aggression' and using oil as a political weapon, and other exercises promoted joining the Popular Army as an everyday activity such as buying a music cassette or acting in a play. ... That is changing, as Iraqi teachers and parents team up with U.S. and international organizations to root the former Iraqi dictator out of textbooks and replace militaristic rote learning in Iraqi classrooms."
-- Chicago Tribune, July 31, 2003

"We didn't believe these things, but we had to say them. Saddam was there in all the books, even the math books."
-- Ghada Jassen, a fifth grade teacher in Iraq, Chicago Tribune, July 31, 2003

"We don't want patriotic education anymore. Nothing about war. We want flowers and springtime in the texts, not rifles and tanks."
-- Dunia Nabel, a teacher in Baghdad, Chicago Tribune, July 31, 2003

"Long live great Iraq!"
-- Iraqi students, who are no longer required to salute Saddam at the beginning of class, shouting their new salute, Chicago Tribune, July 31, 2003

"We want to have a real education, to be a progressive country. Education is very important to the reconstruction of our society. If you want to civilize society, you must care about education."
-- Al Sa'ad Majid al Musowi, a businessman on Baghdad's city council, Chicago Tribune, July 31, 2003

"This is where all the money went-all our money went. I am astonished and angry."
-- Salih Fadhil, viewing Saddam's palace in Tikrit, The Daily Telegraph (London), July 31, 2003

"It just reminded me of how powerful Saddam was."
-- Mudhfar Awad, after seeing Saddam's palace in Tikrit, The Daily Telegraph (London), July 31, 2003

"Water is returning to the Mesopotamian marshlands, turned into salt-encrusted desert by Saddam Hussein."
-- The Christian Science Monitor, July 31, 2003

"The return of water had an immediate effect on the people [the Marsh Arabs in Iraq] whom the war had freed. They are fishing again from boats that had not floated for years. Water seems to hold the promise of reviving an old way of life."
-- The Christian Science Monitor, July 31, 2003

"We have full freedom to print anything we want. The coalition doesn't interfere in our work but, of course, we have our own red lines.

" Ishtar el Yassiri, editor of the new satirical Iraqi newspaper Habez Bouz."
-- Financial Times (London), July 31, 2003

"Volleys of Kalashnikov gunfire erupted above the dusty village of Haush al- Jinoub in southern Iraq. Children and weeping women thronged around the bus as it drew to a halt. Out stepped Thabed Mansour, frail and weary after 12 years of exile, for an overwhelmingly emotional reunion with his wife and family. Mr. Mansour was one of 244 men who returned to their native country yesterday in the first formal repatriation of Iraqi refugees since the war ended."
-- The Times (London), July 31, 2003

"It is like the soul coming back to the body."
-- Ibrahim Abdullah, a refugee returning to Iraq, The Times (London), July 31, 2003

"Since Iraq's liberation, the dominant theme of Western news reporting has been the guerrilla attacks against U.S. troops. The focus obscures a larger truth: Life is returning to normal in Iraq-better than normal, actually, because this 'normal' is Saddam-free. All of the country's universities and health clinics have reopened, as have 90 percent of schools. Iraq is now producing 3.4 gigawatts of electric power-85 percent of the pre-war level."
-- National Post (Canada) commentary, July 29, 2003

"The tension is reducing every day. We are seeing a change. People are starting to realize that the soldiers are not here to occupy Fallujah forever-they're here to help us rebuild."
-- Taha Bedawi, mayor of Fallujah, The Washington Post, July 29, 2003

"It's a chance to defend our country for our people. It's good to work with the American soldiers. They give us new training and a mutual respect."
-- Omar Abdullah, a recruit for Mosul's newly formed joint security group, Associated Press, July 29, 2003

"I want to serve a new Iraq."
-- Shevin Majid, a former Kurdish fighter who is now a recruit in the Mosul joint security force, Associated Press, July 29, 2003



There are many more of these quotes.
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I think the Iraqi's will disagree with you.

The amount of coalition death's due to attacks and violence is dropping. It is not a daily occurance anymore and it continues to drop. The Guerilla warfare has dropped, a lot.

Infrastructure is continuing to improve in Water, Power and guess what.... INTERNET.

There is an Iraqi Police Force and they are building up the new Iraqi Army.

The new Iraqi temporary Government is in place, they are a little on the slow side to do anything but at least they are there.

David Kaye say's he has eye popping evidence of Saddam's WMD program but he work isn't finished. We'll see that later.

Their biggest problem right now is terrorist... Yes terrorist from Syria, Iran and Saudi Arabia. The Al Islamia (or whatever they are called) were driven out of Iraq at the beginning of the war are now returning. I heard one x general say today, "Bring them on, if they return we will eliminate them."

There are terrorists, criminals and others who are determined to stop the coalition from helping the Iraqi people. They will not succeed.

The United Nations remains committed, the Coalition remains committed, and the United States remains committed to stay in Iraq. Together, we will make sure that the promise that has been brought to Iraq by the elimination of the Hussein regime will be made available to every Iraqi citizen.

Humanitarian workers, reconstruction workers and others must have a safe environment. It's a challenging environment, but we will work closely with the United Nations to make sure that they can perform their work in as safe an environment as is possible, considering the circumstances.

The UN has a vital role to play in Iraq. The Coalition is pleased that the United Nations remains committed to its important job there.

We now have 30 nations that have contributed 22,000 troops under coalition control, five other nations are in the process of making their final decisions to send troops, and we're talking to 14 others. So that is close to 50 countries participating in an international coalition for Iraq.

As President Bush said of those responsible for the bombing of the UN headquarters in Baghdad: "They are the enemies of the Iraqi people. They are the enemies of every nation that seeks to help the Iraqi people. By their tactics and their targets, these murderers reveal themselves once more as enemies of the civilized world."

How come the Socialist Left like 'Search for Socialism Truth' here, keeps insisting Iraq is a 'disaster' and 'quagmire' after only a few month's time - when NONE OF THEM consider Kosovo and Bosnia - both leftist-foamented and approved conflicts - of being Quagmires and failures when there is still killing, guerilla war and troops still stationed there????


Hypocrisy methinks.

Something the leftists are perfect artists of.

This is just simply more of the agenda to bash America and Bush at each and every opportunity.

From what I can see things are pretty much going as planned in Iraq. Ther is no quagmire, no disaster.

Well Ron, just try and get the leftist Press to report that.

They won't.

My neighbor just got back from serving in Baghdad, and it is AMAZING that the situation there is so completely different than what we are being told in the media.

The media is LOOKING for anything negative to report, and willfully acquires interviews from Palestinaians and Syrian Jihad fighters claiming to be Iraqis. The sabotage they perpetrate on the power, water and oil lines are a daily occurance that the press reports is being done by Iraqis or being blamed on American troops.

My neighbor says Americans are more openly welcomed in Iraq than in France.

Compare the casulties of this war to other wars. Take for instance the Iraq Kuwait war which lasted less than 3 months.

Iraq-Kuwait
Allies = 340
Iraq = 10,000 plus (other esitmates differ to around 40,000 in conflict and a total of 158,000 including after war aftermath.

So far in this war, as of August 24th

Coalition = 322
confirmed coalition deaths which include accidents and friendly fire.

Iraq = (no estimates but some believe it may by around 3,000)
we have a count of civilian estimates at about 6000 to 7000 some of which are most likely military.

ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF HOW MISINFORMED BOTH OF YOU ARE

and another example of how right-wingers change the facts around to look like they are right

Everything is going as planned?

I think you must be on crack if you actually think everything is going as planned. Life hasn't been restored to normal in Iraq, American Soldiers are getting killed on a daily basis, We have made a terrorists magnet which is attracting terrorists from all over the middle east, We haven't found Saddam Hussein, The people seem to not want us in the country, We are going to have to keep our soldiers for a much longer period of time than told by our president, and most importantly WE STILL HAVEN'T FOUND THE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION

IS THAT EVERYTHING AS PLANNED?

I think this article was right on the bat, you right-wingers can never apologize for being wrong.

And if you honestly think everything is going as planned, I feel you 2 should both consider contacting a psychologist

As usual Search4Socialism, you are confusing your feelings with facts.

ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF HOW MISINFORMED BOTH OF YOU ARE

WERE YOU THERE?

NO.

I'm talking with my neighbor WHO JUST GOT BACK FROM BAGHDAD, and you are WOEFULLY misinformed.

and another example of how right-wingers change the facts around to look like they are right

I got my facts from the horse's mouth - where'd you get your facts from - The Sadaam Times?

I think you must be on crack if you actually think everything is going as planned.

Hardly. It's going BETTER than planned according to my Army Reservist neighbor.

YOU were the people that said we would be slaughtered if we went into Baghdad. YOU were the people that said our war plan was flawed and that we would never take Baghdad. YOU are the people that said NO Iraqi would ever welcome Americans on their soil.

You were wrong then, and you are wrong NOW. Just as you are on almost every issue.


Life hasn't been restored to normal in Iraq

Exactly. Shiite's aren't being executed by the tens and twenties every single day by Sadaam's thugs. Children are not being tortured in front of their parents. Women aren't being systematically raped and mutilated. People can move about without the fear of Sadaam's henchmen walking in their shadows. They can buy food at newly opened markets without having to hunt for scraps. They have a future in front of them.

Life is not as it was in Iraq. It is filled with the hope and promise of true freedom and liberty - if they can keep it.


American Soldiers are getting killed on a daily basis

This is what happens in a guerilla war. Not unexpected. It's war, not tiddly winks. But it is a far cry from the hundreds of thousands of deaths you people said we would incur if we went into Baghdad.

We have made a terrorists magnet which is attracting terrorists from all over the middle east

Good. Saves us from having to go into other countries to exterminate them.

We haven't found Saddam Hussein

He's shacking up in a Syrian cave with Osama Bin Laden somewhere. We've apprehended or killed just about everyone on our list thusfar - it's just a matter of time before he is wasted and squashed like the vermin he is.

The people seem to not want us in the country

WRONG. It is the foreign jihadists and Sadaam Loyalists (Tikritians) who do not want us in the country. Most of the Iraqi people are happy we are there, and hope that we can help establish stability soon, so they can begin to govern themselves and we can go home.

We are going to have to keep our soldiers for a much longer period of time than told by our president

We still got troops in Bosnia and Kosovo that your Liberal Philanderer-In-Chief Clinton and his UN cronies insisted would be home in 'One Year'. No big deal to you because it was your ideological compadre that ordered them in there.

I think the term HYPOCRITE applies to you here.

and most importantly WE STILL HAVEN'T FOUND THE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION

You will soon get another education, and be forced to eat crow for a year or more. But you keep on screaming we haven't found any...your agenda will become irrelevant overnight once it is proven to be a complete joke.

IS THAT EVERYTHING AS PLANNED?

Up to this point - YUP.

I think this article was right on the bat, you right-wingers can never apologize for being wrong.

We would if we were, but we're not. thusfar - the only people being proven consistently wrong day to day is YOU people - and apology is a word you have no comprehension of.

And if you honestly think everything is going as planned, I feel you 2 should both consider contacting a psychologist

Please, you first - since you are the one that is obviously insanely governed by your emotions.