A cult called Federation of Damanhur, with headquarters located in Italian Alps, claims that their members have travelled through time many times. Apparently, there are two ways of time travelling: physical and mental. Mentally, only your soul travels in past and possesses another man's body, collecting information. Physically, a person's body travels through time, too, and the rest of the cult can watch its journey through special channels. (Visit http://www.damanhur.org/ for more information). Altogether, it's a spiritual way of time travelling.
There have also been rumors that US governmnent has been developing time machines. The most famous of these projects was apparently started on Long Island and continued in Pensylvania.
Anyhow, physicist Stephen Hawking suggested time travels should be banned by law, because too many troubles occur while those travels, like world's history that might be changed while traveling in past.
What do you think - has any organisation or institution on this world by this moment developed a time machine or another way of traveling through time? And do you think it's right to travel through time? Does it bring any benefits to human race? Is it better for scientists to focus our mind on something else like finding a cure for AIDS, cancer, etc.?
Actually, I'm not an expert in Physics or anything (YET) but i've heard some stuff on TV about some sub-sub-sub-atomic particles and energy fluctuations that somehow travel in time.
And it sounded pretty convincing, i mean, scientific, not the usual science-fiction-b*llshit.
And OK, people are NOT sub atomic particles, but still... it proves time does NOT only move in one way.
There were even some talks about using these particles in building a time-machine, but that's not very likely. YET.
If you can name the television program, I'd be very interested. Maybe I can get more info on this somewhere...
It's interesting to think of how one might measure the travelling of something backwards in time... How can we be sure that the particle actually travelled back? If we have instruments that can measure the reversal of the effects of time on something, then I'd say that we're quite on our way. If we ever get there, I want someone to come for me and take me forward!
I don't think you'll be able to see that program, it was a croatian production.
I don't know how they measured it but there must be something about it on some of the geeky web pages. i'll post if i find anything.
I would like to travel to future, but im not sure if that's possible... i mean, a lots of things can happen in each moment of time that changes the future world... so to travel to future would mean taking a lotsa-lots of crossroads. You'd have to choose what kind of future do you want to go to.
Particles: Matter and Anti-Matter
Particles and anti-particles are opposite in every property except mass. Anti-matter may even be understood as ordinary particles with negative energy or as ordinary particles travelling backwards in time. When particles encounter their anti-particles, both become energy (bosons). Neutral bosons tend to be their own anti-particles (K mesons, Kaons, are an exception). Whether matter and anti-matter are equally fundamental in their opposition is an open and mysterious question, since the universe consists mostly of matter and not anti-matter -- leading to speculations about corresponding anti-matter universes. It does seem, however, that the symmetry of matter and anti-matter is not perfect: In the system of neutral Kaons, the neutral anti-Kaon (K0) preferentially becomes a neutral Kaon (K0), but not the other way around. There is no accepted explanation for this, but it seems to be a well established result. Note: On this webpage, anti-particles are indicated by either underlined (e.g. "e" -- the anti-electron, or positron) or overlined (e.g. "") letters -- overlined text (more the convention) requires graphic items, so underlining is used where this is more convenient.
Still, I think it's strange to think about particles that travel backwards in time... Especially anti-matter stuff... I can grasp the idea of energy or substances that would cancel out the properties of something else, so anti-matter makes enough sense to me... I just have a hard time believing in the possibility of naturally-occurring substances that travel backwards in time...
Anyways, I can believe in the possibility of spiritual time-travel. Maybe that's akin to deja-vu. I've had that enough times in my life to believe it's a possibility. Or maybe deja-vu is a sub-conscious realization of another level of reality, and it's just expressed as a temporary premonition...
I have no idea.
Maybe I shouldn't post it in Unexplained Phenomena&Conspiracy, it doesn't really belong here... I just wasn't sure should i put it in Philosophy&Theology or Science&Technology, since it is connected to both.
In hope of seeing a new reply soon, **waves fairwell**
If time travel were ever to become possible... ever, shouldn't we be seeing time travelers today? I know that they might hide themselves, so they don't disrupt anything, but if it were possible then there could very well be observers from the future, or from the past observing our time. Thats sort of wierd to think about...and besides just say an event was altered, we wouldn't know about it.. to us it would be the natural history of things, wheras to the person who changed the event, it would be alternate ending...
Consider the possibility that if UFOs are real objects and not just figments of anyone's imaginations, perhaps they are from the future...my son and I have had numerous discussions on that possibility. Maybe they (if they are real) are not them, but "us" coming back for some reason or another..mind boggling, huh?
Nice thinking. Interesting! I question though, why are aliens seemingly predominantly portrayed as being naked? Why wouldn't they be clothed, as we are? I would think that if they are coming to earth, they would wear some clothing in recognition of the rapidly changing climate. If they breathe oxygen, then most likely their own planet would have changing climates as well...
Definitely interesting topics of discussion, both time travel and UFO's...
Originally posted by 1young11 If time travel were ever to become possible... ever, shouldn't we be seeing time travelers today? I know that they might hide themselves, so they don't disrupt anything, but if it were possible then there could very well be observers from the future, or from the past observing our time. Thats sort of wierd to think about...and besides just say an event was altered, we wouldn't know about it.. to us it would be the natural history of things, wheras to the person who changed the event, it would be alternate ending...
Great posts from all of you!
I like the idea of space travelers among us...would go a long way into explaining why some people just don't seem to fit the current mold....like Ted Kaczynski, I think he came from the past, from about 500 years ago, and he got stuck here, could not find his way back.
But I don't think we can time travel today....one big problem I see is that how do we control moving the human body as a whole at once without disturbing any of the bodies natural processes.... what if some matter does not move as fast as other matter...say essential minerals or oxygen in our body.....the atoms do not have equal mass or sub-particles or the same exact properties in any other way either...
And if you assume we can "transport" the body intact from one place to another, what kind of a "medium" or "channel" would that happen in? They can't get my cell phone to work well enough where I live due to the mountains. Wouldn't there be warps and bends in time at least when traveling near a black hole...or are we just talking about time travel on earth?
And how do we control where the body ends up in time and space...it's difficult enough for us tell what time it is without looking at a clock, so how much stuff would you need to travel with? I'd hate to drag a suitcase around everywhere I go just in case I need to go back home on a short notice.
I could understand going into the past...we have history to tell where there was habitable land and air at a given spot at a given time, on earth anyway....But how would you get back from there? Or how would you go someplace else if you did not like where you ended up in terms of time and space---some of history's greates palaces, elite life style, clothes, art and music, etc. were great but you could just as well get your head cut off if it did not please the king. It's not like there are going to be phonebooths everywhere in the past, for you to get out like they do in the Matrix. The receiving end would somehow need to be able to send you back home or the home base would need to suck you back into current time...but if you move from where you landed or eat something or gain or lose weight while traveling...how would the system handle all the changes?...how would the home site know exactly from where, in time and space, to beam you back home??
But I don't think it would be so reasonable to go into the future because how could you tell that Venice for example would still be a humanly habitable place if that's where you wanted to travel to, 2000 years into the future Venice is most likely gone but we don't know what will happen today unless Italians fix that problem in time...or if you wanted to go to Disneyland 500 years from now...would it still be there or could you hit some spot on earth that's hazardous to your health upon landing there? Like it was nuked just before you landed there.
Health hazards that your body could not handle in the past or in the future is an other problem......
So I think I'm completely happy here right now, and just smile when they pat me down at the airport
Helen55, I'll say it again: I love the way you think!
Your post reminded me of something I thought of a few years back when i considered the mechanics necessary to go back in time...
The earth isn't a stationary object. It spins and moves through space at very rapid speeds. In order for something to travel back in time, it would have to disassociate itself with the movement of the earth, and when it had reached the desired point in time, it would have to reintegrate itself with the speed at which the earth rotates. All of that doesn't even mention the fact that moving back in time would also require movement through space in accordance with earth's orbit around the sun, in order to remain on earth when the trip through time is complete.
Pretty complicated stuff...
Great thoughts on the various weights and masses of different elements and molecules/atoms within our bodies. It's not like we're talking about hopping into a car and travelling from point A to point B. We are talking about physically removing an object or living being from one point in the reality of time, and passing through some sort of medium, in order to arrive at a destination still on earth, at an early point in time. That's not rocket science, it's beyond present comprehension. I'd say by a long, long, long shot.
.... That's not rocket science, it's beyond present comprehension.
Fun to think about and discuss though...
Thank you! Yes, sure is fun and I just love that phrase of yours...I have to write it down...I think I can put it to good use at least once a month.
My main concern is malfunction of the system...what if they can only get some part of the body traveling and the rest is left behind...so would that be a disaster? end of life? ...or could they recall the trip and fuse the body together as if nothing happened and try again? would you try again?
And not having immunity to the bugs and diseases in the past or in the future is definitely only for the brave at heart....see how well we stayed home with the SARS epidemic...can you imagine some group coming back (from who knows exactly where if the trip got screwed up a bit) and they have this horrible super contagious disease like AIDS+SARS+ebola+TB which is found to be capable of time travel by itself, replicates itself not just geometrically in 2D but in 4D?
You know, on a lighter note, you could just hire Superman with some kind of code that if you didn't arrive back by X amount of time, he'd just fly backwards in time (like he did in the movie) and tell you not to go in the first place...
all jokes aside, isn't it curious how many problems we create with each new problem we solve?
Originally posted by tbird You know, on a lighter note, you could just hire Superman with some kind of code that if you didn't arrive back by X amount of time, he'd just fly backwards in time (like he did in the movie) and tell you not to go in the first place...
all jokes aside, isn't it curious how many problems we create with each new problem we solve?
Yeap ...he could have done it in the past, but in his current state unfortunately not...To me Reeves is the Superman, I sure hope he recovers...just enough to walk
But the unintended consequenses are at times terrible, even horrible, but sometimes funny. And so of course I'm usually more interested in the unintended consequences than in the technology itself.
I have devised a way to find out if you will ever travel in time. Promise yourself that if you ever travel in time that you will travel back to ten minutes from this very moment and tell your past self that you did it. If ten minutes after you make that promise you don't meet your future self, then you will never travel in time. If you do, tell your future self to come see me. Of course there could be things that prohibit you from meeting your past self if time travel is ever figured out, but it makes for an exciting ten minutes anyway.
I honestly don't think physical time travel will ever be a reality. Too many problems/paradoxes. Mental time travel seems to be a more realistic goal. The future isn't decided yet, so the past would be the only place to go. Don't hold me to that though, because I keep changing my mind as to whether or not I believe in fate, so maybe the future is decided. I sure wish I could make up my mind on that.
Sheesh are you people serious TRAVEL BACK IN TIME, this would mean everything that has ever happened would have to always be happening on some other plane of existance this is STUPID to think that, What a bunch of Corn Pokes
Ignorance is Bliss
I haven't seen one post of yours where you had anything intelligent to say. I believe the reason is that you don't have, never have had, and probably never will have anything intelligent to say. If knowledge is the key, you better hire a locksmith.
Originally posted by Edorion I honestly don't think physical time travel will ever be a reality. Too many problems/paradoxes. Mental time travel seems to be a more realistic goal. The future isn't decided yet, so the past would be the only place to go. Don't hold me to that though, because I keep changing my mind as to whether or not I believe in fate, so maybe the future is decided. I sure wish I could make up my mind on that.
we are sort of required to go into the past to decide what happens to us in the future...about 2000 years back
and I agree with you...anyone attempting physical time travel into the future has no future
But, if there are many possible futures, and in each moment there are countless number of spaces appearing, each being a consequence of a decision that people or nature made in each moment... than maybe it would be possible to go to a future you choose and see what would have happened with you if you didn't go to the future, or have made other different decisions in life.
And another thing... because Earth travels in space, maybe it's only possible to travel in time of you're in outer space. Than you'll at least know *where* have you come... without any gravitation removing your position.
About the problem transferring body to another place, i guess it would have to be something like teleportation in the star trek... matter to energy, then energy to matter again. we might ask gene roddenberry how it works . Oh man he's dead. ooops...
Anyway, i have also been thinking about the idea of UFOs being our future time machines. Remember how it's said we'll look like in the future? Big head - small pale body? Yeah, definitely aliens.
Edorion, Something intelliegen to say, How about this, Time travel is not possible, only in theroy, but in theory you can hang an elephant off a cliff with his tail tied to a dandilyon...but that is just theory, PROVE IT.
Originally posted by Mr.Blonde Edorion, Something intelliegen to say, How about this, Time travel is not possible, only in theroy, but in theory you can hang an elephant off a cliff with his tail tied to a dandilyon...but that is just theory, PROVE IT.
given enough money and time I can genetically manipulate it so that the elephant will hang "off a cliff with his tail tied to a dandilyon" ...
the elephant is already easily trained to think a small chain around one ankle will make it impossible for it to free itself ..... and creating a miniature elephant should not take too long...look at the minuature horse..... "it is speculated that the Miniature horse is a result of nearly 400 years of selective breeding of many extracts" (http://www.amha.com) ... people shrunk the horse in just 400 years with no DNA technology of today or technology we will have 50 years from now
and I know from pulling them dandy-lions out of my lawn that they already require 2 HP to pull them out (one reason why I moved into my new home with desert landscaping)
so ... I could for sure prove it could be done in the very near future...
also, it's not like we are buying round trip tickets for time travel just because we talk about it
given enough money and time I can genetically manipulate it so that the elephant will hang "off a cliff with his tail tied to a dandilyon" ...
Given the money and time...BULL **** GO GET DUMBO"S ASS AND HANG HIM ON A CLIFF LETS SEE IT...TIME TRAVEL IMA TIME TRAVEL MY ASS BACK TO 1975 CAN CREATE The WINDOWS OS ...TIME TRAVEL YOU PEOPLE ARE RETARDED.....it may slow down or speed up for someone (if they are going the speed of light of moving fast) but PEOPLE WILL NEVER GO BACK IN TIME that is 3rd grade play ground talk c'mon ppl ..****
Given the money and time...BULL **** GO GET DUMBO"S ASS AND HANG HIM ON A CLIFF LETS SEE IT...TIME TRAVEL IMA TIME TRAVEL MY ASS BACK TO 1975 CAN CREATE The WINDOWS OS ...TIME TRAVEL YOU PEOPLE ARE RETARDED.....it may slow down or speed up for someone (if they are going the speed of light of moving fast) but PEOPLE WILL NEVER GO BACK IN TIME that is 3rd grade play ground talk c'mon ppl ..****
That was funny - seems like you can't wait for me to genetically engineer Dumbo and the dandy-lions for my demo... I agree with the last statement but I reserve my right to have a happy childhood at any age .. with or without time travel
Mr. Blonde, you said something in your last post that made me think...
You said: ...it may slow down or speed up for someone (if they are going the speed of light of moving fast)...
Here's the thing: if time slows down as we approach the speed of light, what happens when we EXCEED the speed of light?
Another thing: if light is the deciding factor in terms of the threshold we must break in order to travel through time, then does that mean that light is not bound by the properties of time?
I ask this because saying that the effects of time slows as one approaches the speed of light, suggests that light is not bound by time. If that's the case, then we either should never perceive light, or we should not be able to calculate it's speed. OR, maybe this suggests that time as a fundamental constant of the universe is really only a notion and not reality...
I just want to add something here.......ok, here goes:
If you are heading in the same direction as a ray of light, and approach half the speed of light yourself... then look at the ray of light at your current speed, the ray will still appear to you as to be going the speed of light. This means time has slowed down for you. Therefore no matter how fast you go, it's impossible to actually go as fast or faster than light, as it will always appear to be the same speed from the person travelling at such a high speed.
This was one of Einstein's better theories (as it's been tested and found to be true).
If you can find the work of a professor named Ronald Mallet, from the University of Connecticut, he is one of the leading time travel scientists in the world and is fairly close to sending subatomic particles into the past. It may not seem like much, but it will allow atleast data transfer back and forth from the past to the future.
Now giving that you exceed the speed of light time will "seem" to be merely minutes to you while it is actually more..but you will still be in that time..you just have like a brain fart of sorts...you travel and the year changes that means the earth went around the sun..now I don't give a damn how fast you are going..you cannot make the Earth Go faster around the sun it will just seem like a quicker time because giving that your brain is not mush after going the speed of light youd sure as hell be high, and when you go to sleep don't it just seem like seconds but acutally it has been hours...SAME DIFFERENCE>>>If you are going faster than something you will pass it up...you use light as an example....well you may be going faster than the light... that is like running faster than somebody...that doesn't mean you are aging faster than they are you are just moving faster.,...but you are NOT going faster than time. think about it.
Gaboman im sure this scientist is getting millions of bucks...with them millions anyone can come up with an elaborate magic trick to make something dissappear and rappear differently...sorry I don't believe it until I see it....
Nah, that's cool, I wont believe it until I see it for sure either. But his work has gotten lots of praise by other egg heads, and is kind've interesting, he does have some interesting ideas... whether he can actually do it well!!!! hahaha He obviously hasn't done it yet, otherwise the fabric of reality would've ripped open and us all sucked into the rip... or something along those lines....
Originally posted by gaboman I just want to add something here.......ok, here goes:
If you are heading in the same direction as a ray of light, and approach half the speed of light yourself... then look at the ray of light at your current speed, the ray will still appear to you as to be going the speed of light. This means time has slowed down for you. Therefore no matter how fast you go, it's impossible to actually go as fast or faster than light, as it will always appear to be the same speed from the person travelling at such a high speed.
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Ok, got a question: If you are travelling in the same direction as a ray of light, and you're travelling at half it's speed, how could you look at the light? If you're travelling in it's direction in a parallel line, then the ray wouldn't be visible to you, isn't that right? If you are travelling at 1/2 lightspeed, then the only way you'd be able to see anything would be because light rays were travelling OPPOSITE your direction. If you COULD look at a ray of light travelling in your same direction, then the ray COULD NOT appear to be travelling at full speed. Just like if you were travelling at 1 Kilometre/hour less than the speed of light, parallel to a ray of light, that ray would only creep by you at the speed of 1 km/h. Now, all the images that you would be seeing at that speed would more than likely be slamming into your retina at twice normal speed. That like having two cars travelling in the same direction. One car goes at 50 km/h, the other at 100 km/h. To the slower car, the other car won't appear to move at 100 km/h. It will appear to move at about half that speed. And if those cars were APPROACHING each other, and both were travelling at 100 km/h, when they collide, the force of impact will be equal to each car hitting a wall at 200 km/h.
Still, is the notion that time travel is possible only when surpassing the speed of light a suggestion that light is not bound by the effects of time? Or that time may one day be a manipulatable force?
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Of course the ray wouldn't be visible to you, but even if it were visible you couldn't see how fast it was going. But that's not the point, the point is if you headed the same direction as the ray of light it would always be going the speed of light in respect to your current speed.
And you're right, if one car were going 50k and another 100 k, the 50km/hr car WOULDN'T appear to be going 100km/hr... I really think you missed the whole point... we're not talking about cars, we're talking about approaching the speed of light (which, i hear, is a little more than 100k/hr)
Surpassing the speed of light is one of the main theory surrounding most time-travel experiments, however instead of getting into a shuttle and trying to beat it that way, scientists have formed a few different ways to manipulate time in a smaller area (basically using the theory I mentioned to create a miniture version, which slows time down and creates a very small ... well, vortex if we can call it that They actually haven't worked out precisely how to use it to move back and forth in time... but let's see how they go)
Time itself isn't exactly the force that's manipulated, though. We are.
Originally posted by gaboman Of course the ray wouldn't be visible to you, but even if it were visible you couldn't see how fast it was going. But that's not the point, the point is if you headed the same direction as the ray of light it would always be going the speed of light in respect to your current speed.
And you're right, if one car were going 50k and another 100 k, the 50km/hr car WOULDN'T appear to be going 100km/hr... I really think you missed the whole point... we're not talking about cars, we're talking about approaching the speed of light (which, i hear, is a little more than 100k/hr)
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Ok, I don't know if I'm clear on your meaning yet. Question: Are you saying that if I was moving at about 150,000 km/second (about half lightspeed. I'm aware that it doesn't travel at 100 km/h), parallel to a ray of light, that ray of light would be moving at 300,000 km/s (about lightspeed in a vacuum)? Or are you saying that it would be travelling at about 450,000 km/s (that would make it move at lightspeed or approx 300,000 km/s in RELATION to my current speed of 150,000 km/s)?
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i was saying if you were travelling half the speed of light, it would, to you, appear to still be going the speed of light. Though it would still appear to someone not travelling at half the speed of light to be going the speed of light also... Weird eh?
I personally don't like the theory of FTL ( Faster Than Light) travel being the best means of time travel. Are you familiar with the law of inertia? Light is not acted upon by an outside force ( gravity, friction, ...) so, any object having a specific mass will never travel faster than light. It is an impossibility. Three-dimensional can be described a couple ways: it has three dimensions, length, width, and height, and we have three ways of movement, up/down, left/right, and forward/backward. I believe time travel depends on finding a fourth way to move, traveling through another dimension, and I believe this to have nothing to do with speed. Mr. Blonde, You keep using words like, stupid, and retard. It is the quest for knowledge, and the wanting to attain the unattainable which makes us smarter. Any dumba$$ can say 'that's retarded' and dismiss the idea without putting any thought into the matter. If you aim for the stars, you just might hit the moon.
Originally posted by Sierradaddy
spiritual time-travel. Maybe that's akin to deja-vu.
Hi There! As a sensitive and reiki 2 I know first hand that this is possible.
Once you have mastered conscious mediation and with proper guidance this can be done. Our minds are very powerful and we (all) can do this. It takes time and practice, but once you have conquered the action of awaken consciousness while in meditation you can go anywhere. Another name for it is transmitting or connecting energy from one to another. Edgar Casey mastered it and before his death he wrote numerous books regarding this subject.
One time in particular that will be forever in my memory is awakened in the astrial plan. My laughter (giggles) snapped me out of a very deep mediation. What I saw was deep space it was so amazing. Could not see who was with me, but words can not explain the beauty.
I've learned to take criticism regarding my abilities from countless people. Some do not believe in this or can not fathom the idea that someone can transmit energy to time travel, heal or even to connect to someone's energy to see what they see. Their minds can not understand anything they can not see or touch. A closed mind is a terrible mind to waste.
Most people view the world on a 13" tv, and the others view the world on a BIG SCREEN TV.
Question: can an astral experience that is removed from our present time really count as time travel? Or is it more like what someone recently posted about simply experiencing a greater amount of the dimension of time?
The post I'm referring to spoke of people saying that it's possible that humans experience only 1/2 of the dimension of time, which is why we can only move forward and not backwards in time. The post went on to say that it's possible that only God experiences the full dimension of time (as the creator of time??), being in and experiencing all timeframes at every moment (as well as being outside of the dimension of time altogether, I would suppose...).
Can astral time travel really be just a broader experience of the dimension of time, as opposed to actual time travel of human consciousness from one timeframe to another?
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sierradaddy Question: can an astral experience that is removed from our present time really count as time travel? Or is it more like what someone recently posted about simply experiencing a greater amount of the dimension of time?
Yes, this could be a very accurate statement. "experiencing a greater amount of the dimension of time"
humans experience only 1/2 of the dimension of time, which is why we can only move forward and not backwards in time. The post went on to say that it's possible that only God experiences the full dimension of time (as the creator of time??), being in and experiencing all timeframes at every moment (as well as being outside of the dimension of time altogether, I would suppose...).
My thoughts agree with this statement regarding God experiences all timeframes. Do have a question about receiving information from our past that is seen in visions and by messages. How are we "as sensitives" able to do this in an accurate manner if we have not travelled back in time to view this information?
When you refer to receiving information from our past that is seen in visions and by messages, are you meaning receiving information from our own PERSONAL past that we don't remember, or from our past lives (if you believe in reincarnation... I for one, do not...)? Or are you referring to general human history?
I've had moments of intense deja-vu, where I'd KNOW what the next thing to happen was. This knowledge came from a sense of EXPERIENCE, like I'd done the exact same thing at the exact same time before. I'm referring to very diverse experiences, like driving on a highway in a different city that I've never been before, or having a very specific conversation with someone, or hanging up clothes in the closet after church and having specific thoughts. Even the feeling of deja-vu itself would become included in my knowledge of the next split-second. Like, I'll begin an episode of deja-vu, and as I realize I'm having deja-vu, I'll remember the fact that I realized, and it will be just before the point that I actually DO realize... Wierd, but it happens maybe once every 2-3 months on average. Started when I was about 9, and continues to this day... But for me, this only relates to future events, and only for just a fraction of a second ahead of the present moment, on average. The length of the episode varies from a couples seconds to almost 20... I think the farthest ahead I could forsee was maybe 2 seconds... So, was that actually time travel or just a moment of expanded perception?
Ignorance is Bliss 
ooops...