Despite the constant haranguing by the mainstream Leftist media and the global Socialites that report with glee about the 'failures' and daily ambushes in Iraq - the real picture of what is going on there maybe best described by one who in right there in the midst of it - LIBERATING and helping the Iraqi people. The same people the Anti-American Socialists on this board insist we are occupying and oppressing.
This letter is from an Army Special Ops officer written just over two weeks ago. Straight from the horse's mouth.
****
It Ain't Necessarily So
Tue, 01 Jul 2003,
Hey Guys, sorry it's been so long since I've sent anything but a quick note to you individually. However things have been pretty hectic since the end of hostilities and the start of the real war.
Despite what the arseholes in the press like to say over and over:
1) We did expect some armed resistance from the Ba'ath Party and Feydaheen;
2) It isn't any worse than expected;
3) Things are getting better each day, and
4) The morale of the troops is A-1, except for the normal *****ing and griping of a select few.
My brief love affair with the press, especially the guys who had the cajones to be embedded with the troops during the fighting, is probably over, especially since we are back being criticized by the same Roland Headly types that used to hang around the Palestine Hotel drinking Baghdad Bob's whiskey and parroting his ridiculous B.S.
I'm in Baghdad now, since SpOpComm 5 relocated here from Qatar. It looks, sounds and smells about the same but at least you can get Maker's Mark at the local OC. We came up in mid-June to help set up operation Scorpion and Sidewinder. It represents a major (and long overdue) shift in tactics. Instead of being sitting ducks for the ragheads we now are going after the worthless pieces of fecal matter.
I'm no longer baby-sitting the pukes from CNN and the canned hams from the networks, but have a combat mission coordinating a bunch of A teams, seeking, finding and rooting out the mostly non-Iraqis that are well-armed, well-paid (in U.S. dollars) and always waiting to wail for the press and then shoot some GI in the back in the midst of a crowd.
The only reason the GIs are pissed (not demoralized) is that they cannot touch, must less waste, those taunting bags of gas that scream in their faces and riot on cue when they spot a camera man from ABC, BBC, CBS, CNN or NBC. If they did, then they know the next nightly news will be about how chaotic things are and how much the Iraqi people hate us.
Some do. But the vast majority doesn't and more and more see that the GIs don't start anything, are by-and-large friendly, and very compassionate, especially to kids and old people. I saw a bunch of 19 year-olds from the 82nd Airborne not return fire coming from a mosque until they got a group of elderly civilians out of harm's way. So did the Iraqis.
A bunch of bad guys used a group of women and children as human shields. The GIs surrounded them and negotiated their surrender fifteen hours later and when they discovered a three year-old girl had been injured by the big tough guys throwing her down a flight of stairs, the GIs called in a MedVac helicopter to take her and her mother to the nearest field hospital.
The Iraqis watched it all, and there hasn't been a problem in that neighborhood since. How many such stories, and there are hundreds of them, ever get reported in the fair and balanced press? You know, nada.
The civilians who have figured it out faster than anyone are the local teenagers. They watch the GIs and try to talk to them and ask questions about America and now wear wrap-around sunglasses, GAPT-shirts, Dockers (or even better Levis with the red tags) and Nikes(or Egyptian knock-offs, but with the "swoosh") and love to listen to AFN when the Gisp lay it on their radios. They participate less and less in the demonstrations and help keep us informed when a wannabe bad-ass shows up in the neighborhood.
The younger kids are going back to school again, don't have to listen to some mullah rant about the Koran ten hours a day, and they get a hot meal.
They see the same GIs who man the corner checkpoint, helping clear the playground, install new swing sets and create soccer fields. I watched a bunch of kids playing baseball in one playground, under the supervision of a couple of GIs from Oklahoma. They weren't very good but were having fun, probably more than most Little Leaguers
The place is still a mess but most of it has been for years. But the Hospitals are open and are in the process of being brought into the21stCentury. The MOs and visiting surgeons from home are teaching their docs new techniques and one American pharmaceutical company (you know, the kind that all the hippies like to scream about as greedy) donated enough medicine to stock 45 hospital pharmacies for a year.
Safe water is more available. Electricity has been restored to pre-war levels but saboteurs keep cutting the lines. And the old Ba'ath big shots are upset because they can't get fuel for their private generators. One actually complained to General McKeirnan, who told him it was a rough world.
The MPs are screening the 80,000 Iraqi police force and rehabbing the ones that weren't goons, shake-down artists or torturers like they did in East Berlin, Kosovo and Afghanistan.
There are dual patrols of Iraqi cops and US/UK/Polish MPs now inmost of the larger cities. Basra has 3.5 million inhabitants. Mosul is a city of 2 million. Kirkuk has 1 million. How many of them, and hundreds of other small towns, have not had riots or shootings?......The vast majority.
The six U.K. cops were killed in a small Shiite town by the ex-cops they were re-habbing. According to a Royal Marine colonel I talked to, the town now has about twenty permanent vacancies in its police force.
Mick, he's a big potato eater from Belfast named Huggins, and knows how to handle terrorists after twenty years fighting with the IRA. He sends his regards and says he'd love to have you here. Thinks you'd make a great police chief, even though the cops would be more frightened of you than the local hoods (then he laughed).
I heard one doofus on MSNBC the other night talk about how "nearly 60" GIs have been killed since 01 May. The truth is that 21 GIs have been killed in combat, mostly from ambush, from 01 May through 30 June, Another 29 have been killed by accidents or other causes (two drowned while swimming in the Tigris).
The MSNBC turd is the same jerk who reported on the air that "dozens of GIs" were badly burned when two RPGs hit a truck belonging to an Engineer Battalion that was parked by a construction site. The truck was hit and burned, three GIs received minor injuries (including the driver who burnt his hand) and three warriors of Allah were promptly sent to enjoy their 72 slave girls in Paradise. Hell of a way to get laid.
A mosque in that sh*thole Fallujah blew up this morning while the local imam, a creep named Fahlil (who was one of the biggest local loudmouths that frequently appeared on CNN) was helping a Syrian Hamas member teach eight teenagers how to make belt bombs.
And, right away the local Feyhadeen propaganda group started wailing that the Americans hit it with a TOW missile (If they had there wouldn't have been any mosque left!) and the usual suspects took to the streets for CNN and BBC.
One fool was dragging around a piece of tin with blood on it, claiming it was part of the missile. The cameras rolled and the idiot started repeating his story, then one of my guys asked him in Arabic where he had left the rag he usually wore around his face that made him look like a girl.
Turns out he was a local leader of the Feyhadeen. We took the clown in custody and were asked rather indignantly by the twit from BBC if we were trying to shut up "the poor man who had seen his mosque and friends blown up! ." I told the airy-fairy who the raghead was and if he knew Arabic (which he obviously didn't) he'd know he was a Palestinian.
I suggested we take him down to the local jail and we'd lock him and his cameraman in a cell with the "poor man" and they could interview him until we took him to headquarters. They declined the invitation.
Guess what played on the Bullsh*t Broadcasting System that evening? Did the Americans blow up the mosque? See the poor man who is still in a state of shock over losing his mosque and relatives? Yep. Our friend the Palestinian, the local leader of the Feyhadeen.
Our search and destroy missions are largely at night, free of reporters and generally terrifying to those brave warriors of Allah. The only thing that frightens them more is hearing the word "Gitmo". The word is out that a trip to Guantanimo Bay is not a Caribbean vacation and they usually start squealing like the little mice they are, when an interrogator mentions "Gitmo".
No wonder the International Red Cross, the National Council of Churches and the French keep protesting about the place. They know it has proven to be very effective in keeping several hundred real fanatical psychopaths in check and very frankly would rather see them cut loose to go kill some more GIs or innocent Americans, just to make W. look bad.
We have about 200 really bad guys in custody now and probably will park them in the desert behind a triple roll of razor wire, backed upbya couple of Bradleys pointed their way, if they decide to riot. May be a few will get to Gitmo but most are human garbage that wouldn't take on your five-year old grandson face-to-face.
The more we go after them and not vice-versa I think we will see the sniper attacks go down. Yeah, they'll get lucky now and then, but it's showtime, fellows.
Our first objective is to get the die-hards off the street (or make them too scared to come out in them) and destroy their caches of weapons (we have collected more than 227,000 AK-47s and that is only the tip of the iceburg..... Curly bought nearly a million of them from our pal Vladimir), then cut off their money supply, mostly from Syria and Lebanon.
We must continue to get public services up and running, so the local families can get water, sewage and garbage service; electricity, public transportation; oil fields and refineries working and a dinar that won't halve in value every month.
It's going to be a long haul (remember it took 10-15 years in Japan and West Germany) but if we don't stick with it, nobody else will, and we'll have some other looney running the place again.
This place has greater potential than Saudi Arabia (bunch of goat-herders who struck black gold) or Iran (weird dudes who can't run a rug bazaar much less a major country).
I keep telling myself even the Democrats can't be that self-destructive. But then I look at the current line-up. .........
........Enough of that cheery speculation. The good news is that General Schumaker is going to be appointed ChiefArmy and the old man is coming to Tampa to run the SpOps desk at CentComm. He's tops and will be getting his second star.
To me it means that SpOps will be more predominant in future operations and after 18 years as a GB maybe I'll have a shot at a bird-level combat command. The old man asked me to come to MacDill and be his ACS but I told him after I spent four months changing the diapers of the media types, I
wanted to go back to action. Hence, my current gig. As the movie quoted old General Patton, "God help me, I love it." I do.
Nothing more satisfying than working with the BEST damn soldiers in the world, flushing real human poop down the drain and giving some folks a chance at trying freedom for a change. They may learn to like it and then my great-great-grandson won't have to worry about some maniac trying to destroy the planet.
My tour is over at the end of August, and I plan to return to Tampa, brief the old man, then head to San Rafael and see my two sweethearts.
I'd like to visit my parents in Toronto and my brother in London, before taking on a trip across the country. Just like any other family. It will charge my batteries before I end up back in some other sh*t ... er, interesting and challenging location. I hope to see most of you and ask for some advice, not support. I know I've had that all along. Thanks.
May be a few will get to Gitmo but most are human garbage that wouldn't take on your five-year old grandson face-to-face.
I'd better see in "Gitmo" people like Saddam or its Baathist elite, who fed their people with the hate for America and Western culture. (Or their mates from Saudi Arabia, Qatar, EAU, etc... swimming in the gold and enjoying all the western commodities while their people die. But they were not so stupid to produce WMDs.) Unfortunately they are still free or worse, they are enrichening themselves by writing books about the war or by giving away some interviews...
"Life for the right-wing American is a cell whose four walls are mirrors."
Not so long ago, during and after Industrial Revolution, the Catholic church used to brainwash its flock by incorporating visual messages into the highly colourful and decorative stained-glass windows that were part of the churches' structures. What made the brain-washing process easy was the fact that colour was extremely scarce for the majority of people in the world beyond the four walls of the churches and thus people gazed up to the stained-glass windows with awe, seeing colours that were truly beyond their everyday visual realm and imagination. It wasn't easy to sell the message of God linking the joyful kaleidoscopic stained-glass window colours with the teachings of the Bible.
Today, in the USA, the US flag has replaced the stained-glass window as a major component in the brainwashing process of its people. And the American flock stand like sheep, in droves, queuing up to gaze up at the colours of their flag, in their materialist desert, unaware of the brainwashing effects upon their pysche, which, invariably, inspire them to fall into a state of hypnosis, inspiring them to blindly chant: "God bless America" over and over again in good ol' mantra fashion.
Such lost souls.
INVAR hasn't realised it yet, but he is one of those standing in the flock, blinded by self delusion.
Are you and this guy buddies or in the same army unit or something because you both use almost identical language. In fact, are you in the army?
Former Marine.
Today, in the USA, the US flag has replaced the stained-glass window as a major component in the brainwashing process of its people.
Right.
Sure.
Whatever you say.
Even if the absurd idea had any shred of validity (which it does not), better for us to stand in the glow of the American flag than in the emoting stained-glass brainwashing techniques of Socialists and Communism.
And the American flock stand like sheep, in droves, queuing up to gaze up at the colours of their flag, in their materialist desert, unaware of the brainwashing effects upon their pysche, which, invariably, inspire them to fall into a state of hypnosis, inspiring them to blindly chant: "God bless America" over and over again in good ol' mantra fashion.
Such lost souls.
Spoken like the true Marxist automaton that you are sir. Even Stalin didn't reach such heights of demouguogic poetry as you have so aptly demonstrated here today.
INVAR hasn't realised it yet, but he is one of those standing in the flock, blinded by self delusion.
Right. Our prosperity and success that has come under the umbrella of patriotism was all a delusion....right, sure it was.
Better American 'delusion' than Socialist or Islamic delusions. They have killed and tortured more people on earth than any other system devised by mankind.
Americans bask in a light that simply drives you people into raving rock-throwers.
Love the way this American, INVAR, resorts to the last bastion of the nationalist, in that he calls nearly all non-pro Americans Communists or Socialists. It's the "You're either with us or against us" tired format. For such
witless Americans it makes them quake in their blue jeans to conceive that there are actually intellects in this world who neither affiliate themselves with Marxism or other extremist ideologies (including ultra right wing capitalism, which is a guillotine blade pounding on Democracy's neck).
People out there, study carefully HOW INVAR constructs his literary ramblings, and not WHAT he is actually attempting to say. You will find that he repeats himself like an unquestionably misguided individual.
I have been cleverly analysing, over the course of the last two and a half days, how this INVAR character is fixated with the appellations: Communist, Socialist, Leftist and Marxist. As a result of my observations, I have arrived at the conclusion that the American is displaying the classic psychological behaviour called “Projection”.
Projection is when an individual (dare I call him this!) begins to externalise internal unconscious wishes and desires and starts to project them onto other people. And, in the instance of INVAR, he is unconsciously denigrating and belittling the thing he most admires - Communism, which lies latent in his psyche. It is a process of self denial and inverted self flagellation, where the individual, through self loathing, attacks others he or she identifies with through irrational and subjective ranting.
Of course, projection can be overcome through a process of self examination, but this is only possible if the individual is willing to admit to his loss of objective engagement with the external world.
Preston Likely,
Analys this! To bad you have no alegence, except to your own dillusional thoughts. You catagorize all Americans into your interpreation of reality, what a shame. You are exactly what you say INVAR is. How ironic.
You should get out more.
Preston Likely,
One more thing. If you hate Americans so much, why don't you get a shovel and go dig up corpses in Iraq and tell me again how horrible America is again.
I was wondering how long it would be before a pointy-headed self-appointed Elitist would show up and attempt to psychoanalyize me.
Much to my delight amusement, I see that indeed I didn't have to wait long.
As always with such people as Preston that couch themselves in the cloak of 'reason' and intellect, we find that they never challenge or debate the points in a discussion, but instead attack the manner and method of the messenger in order to discredit any point they make.
It's a tired, tried-but-true tactic of the Liberal Left and the self-appointed Elitists running around academia today.
Unlike our pal Preston here - I take each point to task instead of painting with the broad brush to whitewash as he does.
Love the way this American, INVAR, resorts to the last bastion of the nationalist, in that he calls nearly all non-pro Americans Communists or Socialists.
I do indeed call things what they are based on what is said or written.
It's the "You're either with us or against us" tired format.
Yes, and it's hardly 'tired'. It is the way the world works, and now it is American policy in regards to supporting, harboring, aiding and supplying Jihadists.
I like to take it further by going to the roots and include anyone who ideologically supports, aids, comforts and defends our enemies. Our Resident Leftists and Anti-Americanists have most certainly demonstrated such.
it makes them quake in their blue jeans to conceive that there are actually intellects in this world who neither affiliate themselves with Marxism or other extremist ideologies
No, it pisses us Americans off that you people have to hide what you really are behind such nonsenical adjectives as 'centrist', 'moderate', 'progressive' etc. Your own words reveal what you people are, I'm simply calling you on the carpet.
(including ultra right wing capitalism, which is a guillotine blade pounding on Democracy's neck).
Spoken as true as anything Castro, Stalin or Mao ever uttered. Almost the same charges the Soviet's made over the years.
American democracy is unlike the world's democracy in that we are a Representative Republic - not a Mobocracy with Central Planners culling the herd as it is in much of the rest of "Socialized Democratic States".
But thanks for clarifying your true colors for us all here. Like I said, I call things what they are.
People out there, study carefully HOW INVAR constructs his literary ramblings, and not WHAT he is actually attempting to say.
Right. IOWs, don't deal with the substance of what I post, look only to the tone and way in which I debate.
You Leftists are like reading a book. You never deviate from your tried-and-true tactics of diversion and ridicule. This is due to the fact you people are vapid and empty when it comes to debate and you must resort to 'attack the messenger' machinations instead of dealing with the substance of an issue.
You will find that he repeats himself like an unquestionably misguided individual.
As long as you self-appointed Socialistic Elitists keep spouting your inane, false and venemous Anti-American talking points over and over again - I guess I must keep repeating the facts and truth.
After all, it's a Stalinist doctrine of the Left that if you lie large and often enough - it eventually becomes accepted as the truth.
I'm not giving you people any ground in which to continue unopposed.
I have been cleverly analysing, over the course of the last two and a half days, how this INVAR character is fixated with the appellations: Communist, Socialist, Leftist and Marxist.
It's what you people spout and spit here on a daily basis. I've been studying you people and your tactics for years.
I have arrived at the conclusion that the American is displaying the classic psychological behaviour called “Projection”.
In other words, more intellectual psychobabble from a self-appointed Elitist who cannot debate points ands issues, but instead must apply labels to assuage his inability to argue.
Projection is when an individual (dare I call him this!) begins to externalise internal unconscious wishes and desires and starts to project them onto other people.
Thank you Sigmund Freud!
And now I invite you to look into the mirror with your ideological buddies and review the anti-American agenda postings on this board and try and tell us that you are not engaged in that exact same tactic.
Projection, I think you called it. You people are the Masters of it.
he is unconsciously denigrating and belittling the thing he most admires - Communism, which lies latent in his psyche.
Oh THAT'S a good one! You know, I'll let my own words in regards to your ideology define my view. We really don't need a self-appointed Psychologist attempt to anaylize our words so you can spin, distort and distract from the discussion.
Thanks anyway, but no thanks Doc. We don't need your Left-leaning guidance.
How about debating the issues and points instead of attempting some moronic label application couched in colorful clinical definitions?
I didn't think so.
Your ability to debate is as witless and empty as your ideology.
Care to illustrate it some more for everyone here?
I have taken a second in-depth study regarding the case of one INVAR, and, having brilliantly reached the second tear of his mind’s unconscious strata, I can unambiguously state that the American is decidedly displaying elements of anal retention.
Anal retention first occurs in human beings when the child reaches the “Anal Stage” of infant development, where the youngster first learns to accrue pleasure through means of either holding on to or letting go of his or her faeces prior to visiting the lavatory. We can clearly apply the “holding on to” notion with that of INVAR’s proclivity to NEED to retain certain viewpoints which he obviously perceives as being precious, even though, in reality, he knows that his points of view, in many instances, are spurious and self deluding.
By means of revisiting certain precious viewpoints, for example, his belief that nearly everyone who opposes his judgements are either Communist or anti-American, he is displaying an unconscious method whereupon his brain creates a neural loop, which permits him to psychologically circulates, revisiting the same outcome every time he tries to engage in conversation over certain topics. This process of “looping” has one clearly defined objective: it guarantees the host a pleasurable pay off merely because he or she sees a clear outcome to their argument, namely, in INVAR’s instance, that everyone is a Communist who opposes his view.
Looping can also be seen as a game of reductionism, where the basis of the majority of his arguments are relegated to the notion of simple opposites ie. good versus evil, us against them. Reductionism is a key component in INVAR’s method of debate. In his case, If in doubt, revert to using a well-worn method of debate. Hold on to what you know. The anally retentive procedure.
My clever advice to those who want to engage in correspondence with the INVAR type of character, is to withdraw from debate the moment his ideas begin to recede into reductionism (simple opposites), because, at this juncture in the discussion he is, in effect, talking to himself, patting himself on the back and gaining the approval that his parents failed to give him as a child.
My advice to INVAR would be to refrain from tarring nearly all correspondents with the same Leftist brush. He should begin to treat people as individuals and address their conflicting views not as Leftist or Anti-American but as opinions formulated through different experiences and observations that run counter with the American way of life.
I have marvellously observed, from the way in which INVAR conducts his conversations, that he translucently shows no outwards signs of scepticism, which is very typical of a person who is a non-reflective thinker. Let’s have a look at a memorable quotation of mine, which may shed a little light on this matter.
“Intelligent scepticism is the ballast in one's thinking. It helps to maintain a sense of equilibrium during our mental odyssey across the numerous stormy political oceans that we shall encounter during our life time. Without such ballast we are likely to capsize either to the extreme left or the extreme right, resulting in the stagnation of our mental momentum. Of course the buoyant upright position (healthy scepticism) enables one to instinctively sway moderately from the left to the right during our mental journey, propelling our minds forever forwards and thus avoiding being shipwrecked on those morbid islands that dwell on the extremes of existence, where one’s cries fall prey to the talons of utter remoteness.”
Aside from the lack of scepticism that he shows towards his own country’s political affairs, we have to take a look at another aspect of his character: the fact that he plainly believes that the US is some sort of altruistic force on this earth. Those who traffic in such dreary ideas of altruism amuse me greatly.
Now, seeing how I know the human condition extremely well, I can conclude that there is no such thing as altruism, in the literal sense of the word. Humans and nations operate, not selflessly, but on the basis of quid pro quo - something in return for something. A reciprocal behaviour. We DO NO, under any circumstance, act without the expectation of a pay off/reward. This universal condition renders any statement about the US being an altruistic force as utterly naive and juvenile.
INVAR praised the US for the billions in aid that it gives to the world. Well, let me address this idea of aid, which is diaphanously linked with harsh provisos. For example, Bush has just pledged $15 billion in aid to Africa with a view to slowing up the aids epidemic. This looks like a fantastic gift on the surface of things, however, it comes with a massive stipulation. In order for those African nations to receive aid they MUST abandon their contraception centres forthwith. Why? Because Bush is using what is called the “Gag Rule”, which was conceived by that sordid clown, Reagan back in 1984, a rule which basically ties the hands of the nation receiving aid from the US (you will find no such rule in the conditions set by the UK in its foreign aid to Africa).
The Gag Rule is important to Bush because it is a pay back to the panoply of evangelical Christians who voted the witless wonder into power. The most invidious aspect of the aid that Bush has pledged to Africa in order to help slow down the spread of aids is the fact that it will not help to counter the aids haemorrhage but will quickly help to spread the ugly epidemic, seeing how the countries who are dependent on aid are being forced to close down their contraception centres if they wish to qualify for available monies. It is another horrible example of the do-gooders on the far Right, who have been quoted as saying that the Africans should practice abstinence and behave in a Christian manner if they are to receive any fiscal help from the US. It’s an arrogant and clouded approach to worldly philanthropic duties. Of course, Clinton sensibly binned the Gag Rule on day one of his coming to power. Bush, sadly, brought it back at the behest of his sponsors.
Do some research on the Gag Rule. It is decidedly interesting.
Uh-oh, looks like Doc Preston is busy SPAMMING every thread I'm on with his personal diversionary agenda designed to douse the subject being discussed in each thread.
It's obvious he and his Lefty pals have no substance by which to articulately and factually debate - so they need a bozo pretending to be Freud to murk the discussion and discredit me.
Sorry Doc P., it doesn't work.
But I can play your spam-game too:
As I said, your PhD looks to have come from a ceareal box.
Try debating the subject for a change instead of doing the usual Leftist 'tar the messenger's method' tactic of analyzing your ideological opposition with diversionary labels because you have no validity or substance to back up your ideas.
Instead you have to discuss the 'method' of how I debate rather than debate the substance of what I said. Typical of you people.
Of course I realize that using me as a pet-psychoanalysis project to divert the discussion and discredit me personally is all you people have in your ideological arsenal.
But then, what else is new with you people? You are like reading a recipe card.
for example, his belief that nearly everyone who opposes his judgements are either Communist or anti-American
Your own words reveal and identify what you people are.
My clever advice to those who want to engage in correspondence with the INVAR type of character, is to withdraw from debate the moment his ideas begin to recede into reductionism...
IOW, "If he doesn't agree with you and refuses to budge on his position...RUN AWAY!!" Good advice bub, reveals the empty, spineless coward you are.
My advice to INVAR...
Who cares? I didn't ask.
would be to refrain from tarring nearly all correspondents with the same Leftist brush.
If the shoe fits and the posted words match.....you can bet I will call you people what you are.
He should begin to treat people as individuals
I do. I treat them based on the words they write and the substance of what they say.
It's not my problem the zeitgeist of Socialism is manifest in the agenda you people post ad nauseum. After a time, you all sound the same - spouting the same mantras, the same talking points, the same useless and inane arguments....etc., etc.
and address their conflicting views not as Leftist or Anti-American but as opinions formulated through different experiences and observations that run counter with the American way of life.
No, no, no, no......nice try buddy. You are truly insidious, but I must admit - you are not the only Leftist that has attempted to disguise your ideology behind the sublte tactic of intimidating your opposition from calling you what you people are.
I don't fall for such nonsense from the likes of you people.
Your tactic above might as well be saying: "address their conflicting practices and beliefs not as pedophelia or child rape, but as feelings and lifestyles formulated through different experiences and observations that run counter with the moral way of life."
Some of us don't easily compromise our principles and beliefs by accomodating ideologies anethema to us, which is what you suggest....Doc. But you go ahead and amuse us by giving us another hilarious diagnosis of my psyche in your reply - K?
Let's reiterate some of the points I have previously made, and you must, as Preston Likely advised, refrain from using any of those Leftist references. If you do, it means that you have not be listening to what he has been saying.
The conversation is afoot.
Some interesting aspects of US behaviour since 1945
(This list is merely the tip of the political iceberg)
Right wing dictatorships that successive US governments have armed, supported and trained in the 20th century:
• Somoza in Nicaragua, who was a cut throat leader of the Contra rebels and who was armed and trained by the CIA to fight against the elected left-wing Sandinista government army.
• Armas in Guatemala, whose rebels were trained by the CIA to overthrow Jacabo Arbanz all because Arbanz wanted to nationalise CIA-owned land in Guatemala. A 30-year civil war ensued, resulting in the death of more than 250,000 people.
• Pinochet in Chile, who was levered into power by the CIA in 1973, following the CIA-backed assassination of Salvador Allende, a democratically elected left-wing leader. Pinochet’s 17-year reign resulted in the deaths/disappearance of more than 3000 people.
• Norieaga of Panama, supported by the US government up until 1989. He was later found to have been an illegal drug trafficker. The US government only turned against him when he stopped complying to its demands, not because he was a right wing mercenary or illegal drug trafficker.
•Pastrana in Colombia, another extremely right-wing paramilitary leader, who was supported by Clinton’s government in order to destroy the Coca fields, however, the destruction of the fields led to the alienation of the poor, for whom coca chewing is an important cultural practise. Such actions have escalated a conflict with the left -wing revolutionary armed forces of Colombia, who the peasants have been forced to turn to in support of their plight.
• Batista in Cuba, who was yet another right-wing thug, who was supported by successive US governments to overlook American business interests in Cuba, however, US business interest amounted to nothing more than Mafia/gangster-styled operations turning the island into a haven for American gangsters and other subversives. The left-wing Castro overthrew Batista in a military coup, which angered the US government. The US have demonised and punished Cuba ever since for Castro’s disobedience to Washington.
• Suharto in Indonesia, who was one of the most brutal leaders of the 20th century,whose government not only murdered 250,000 East Timorians, but who also killed thousands of its own people. Clinton described him as being “One of our guys.”
• The US currently supports both Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, both of which are dictatorships and whose human rights’ records are continually being brought to the world’s attention.
US Terrorist attacks and links
• In 1998 the US navy destroyed Al-Shifa pharmaceutical plant in Sudan, believing it to be a chemical weapons’ factory. The destruction of the plant has led to countless thousands of deaths of Sudanese, who relied on the plant to supply drugs to prevent malaria, TB, and other diseases which affect cows and sheep and other farm animals. Sudan appealed to the UN to investigate the atrocity, however, the US government vetoed the move. No official apology has been issued from Washington.
• Clinton’s government supported Turkey when it crushed its own Turkish Kurds. Weapons were sold to the Turkish government during the atrocities.
• Successive US governments have heavily armed Israel over the last 35 years (the US gives 3 billion dollars worth of arms each year to Israel), weapons of mass destruction that have been used in terrorist incursions and attacks against the defenceless Palestinians people. The US ignores Israeli atrocities, broken UN resolutions, Geneva Conventions and the fact that an apartheid system is in operation, not to mention the fact that Palestinian land is continually been bulldozed (literally) and occupied by Israeli settlers.
• In 1986 Nicaragua took the US to the World Court, where the court ruled that the Reagan administration was guilty of using “excessive force” against the Nicaraguans. The US
government dismissed the World Court’s ruling and intensified its support for the brutal right-wing Contra rebels.
Miscellaneous
• CIA brought Saddam Hussein’s Ba’ath party to power in 1968
• CIA Help to overthrow Iran’s leader, Mossadeq, in 1953, installing a pro-American Shah to power, which led to Iranians on-going distrust of the US.
• CIA helped to orchestrate the assassination of Lumumbo, the first leader of the Independent Republic of Congo, because he was feared for of his ambitions to shake up Africa and free it from its imperialist European rulers. Years of bloody civil war followed
• US government chose to ignore Saddam Hussein’s government when it gassed Kurds in 1988. The US government was pro-Hussein during this period of the Iran/Iraq war. According to the State Department the US sold Iraq $1.5 billion worth of weaponry in 1990 prior to Hussein incursion into Kuwait.
• Reagan’s administration whipped up the paranoia over the USSR (which he referred to as the “Evil Empire”) in order to justify massive arms’ spending and to implement dubious new social changes within the USA.
• Reagan administration demonised Colonel Gadaffi and accused him of being a terrorist and pro-Russian simply because he would not comply to US political strategies. It has never been proved that Gadaffi has ever orchestrated any acts of violence against the West. Gadaffi’s main problem with the US was the fact that the US navy was sailing in Libyan waters in order to play war games. Libya complained to UN about the US navy incursions in Libyan waters, however, the US vetod the proposal to move its ships out of Libyan territory (imagine Libyan ships in US waters).
• The US policy of “you are either with us or against us” is not a new development in their political and military thinking, it is a phenomenon that has been in operation for over 50 years, hence the reason why they have demonised the likes of Gadaffi and Castro, and, to some degree, Saddam Hussein once he had outlived his use for the US.
• The US refused to sign up to the International Criminal Court, a world-respected court that aims to prosecute war criminals.
• The US government armed and trained Bin Laden’s mercenary force of Muslim fundamentalist fighters during the Afghanistan/Russian war. The very same people who are allegedly threatening to attack the US are those who were trained by the CIA. What goes arond comes around.
Issues of weapons of mass destruction
• 3000 tonnes of Agent Orange (highly cancerous herbicide toxin a deforestation agent) and Napalm, both used in Vietnam, causing devastating long-term harm to both people and precious forests. Truly a WMD.
• Depleted Uranium, which was used by the US during the first Gulf War and has resulted in countless deformed new-born Iraqi children in the Basra region.
• We need not mention that they are the only country to have used nuclear bombs on civilians,
• The US refuses to sign a UN agreement to end the production of land mines.
• The US is pressing ahead with its “Sun of Star Wars” against worldly advise. The US is pursuing total hegemony, with its pursuit of space domination.
• The US has ripped up the 1972 Ant-Ballistic Missile Treaty, the result of which could inspire an escalation in arms production.
• Rumsfeld, under Nixon, inspired the end of the SALT 2 treaty with Russia, because “I don’t like arms control. The result of his mindless actions led to an arms escalation with the USSR.
Sources: Robert Fisk of The Independent, Greg Palast, Chomsky, Singer, John Pilger, The Washington Post, Philippe Gigantes, Dan Haliday, Michael Lind, Andrew Stephen.
MR. Cargo
For every element of the above that you disagree with I want a source as your reference. No generalisations please.
You sure? As an Iado practitioner let's see how well your rapier holds out against a katana and wakizashi.
and you must, as Preston Likely advised, refrain from using any of those Leftist references.
Sorry. If your points are the same misguided talking points of the Left - I will call them what they are.
If you do, it means that you have not be listening to what he has been saying.
I've ALREADY discounted what he has said and consider his diversionary diagnostic views irrelevant.
Some interesting aspects of US behaviour since 1945
(This list is merely the tip of the political iceberg)
Welcome to global geopolitics 20th century style. What's your point? I can point to any nation or empire on earth and either cite them for engaging in atrocity, oppression, genocide or support of regimes that did the same. Welcome to planet Earth, we have 6,000 years of written history that testifies to that fact. America is not the first, nor will it be the last to do so.
The difference between the rest of the world and America is that the U.S. has not willfully supported regimes with expansionist goals of sovereign neighbors via military conquest such as you people supported with Sadaam.
Batista in Cuba
Fidel has so outperformed Batista in the genocide and terror dept. that I have to laugh that you would have the balls to even list Cuba. But then one man's bane is another man's angel - depending on the politics. You people support Fidel Castro.
And I don't think we need to list all the wonderful things Fidel has done to outshine Batista in the Monster Dept.
Suharto in Indonesia
One man's bane, another man's angel. Now you people support the Indonesian Muslim conversion massacres going on there daily.
The US currently supports both Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, both of which are dictatorships and whose human rights’ records are continually being brought to the world’s attention.
Neither of them threaten their neighbors, nor is wholesale genocide of an entire people is taking place.
But I do notice that you cite the intolerance of Islam and it's application in the case of Saudi and Kuwaait. Let's see if that criteria will find it's way in application to the regimes and peoples YOU support.
I doubt it.
See? Ideology.
In 1998 the US navy destroyed Al-Shifa pharmaceutical plant in Sudan, believing it to be a chemical weapons’ factory.
I wonder why you people weren't screaming at Clinton for acting on 'faulty intelligence' then, like you people are screaming at Bush now for?
Hypocrisy again?
See? Ideology.
Successive US governments have heavily armed Israel over the last 35 years....weapons of mass destruction that have been used in terrorist incursions and attacks against the defenceless Palestinians people.
The same unmitigated and regurgitated Leftist crap once again! Go and learn some history before making such an utter arse out of yourself.
3 TIMES the Palestinians spearheaded the Arabs to attack Israel unprovoked. Israel made the huge mistake of not annihilating the entire Palestinian tribe from the face of the earth - but instead, they tried to live alongside them.
The Palestinians are not, nor were they EVER defenseless. They are simply outgunned, and rightfully so. The years of blowing up Isreali school buses and malls showcase the Palestinian animals for what they are.
Just ask King Hussein of Jordan why no Arab state wants the Palestinians living next to or alongside fellow Arabs, and you will get a history lesson in Palestinian treachery like no other.
Yet you people expect Israel to bare it's neck so it can be sliced open while continuing to illustrate the Palestinains as helpless oppressed waifs while they have the utter annihilation of Isreal written in their charter.
CIA brought Saddam Hussein’s Ba’ath party to power in 1968
Complete and already disproven bullsh*t.
installing a pro-American Shah to power, which led to Iranians on-going distrust of the US.
And Fanatical Islam by an Ayatollah with French ties had nothing to do with it?
Reagan’s administration whipped up the paranoia over the USSR..
It wasn't paranoia, those were cold, hard facts. But of course I don't expect you kindred Socialists to agree with that definition.
in order to justify massive arms’ spending and to implement dubious new social changes within the USA.
The arms spending was the best thing we ever did. We need to spend billions more.
As far as 'social changes', Reagan didn't invent Conservatism, it has always been a silent and quiet majority, he just brought us out of our shells despite constant ridicule by the Left.
The US policy of “you are either with us or against us” is not a new development in their political and military thinking, it is a phenomenon that has been in operation for over 50 years, hence the reason why they have demonised the likes of Gadaffi and Castro
We didn't have to 'demonize' either of them, they did that all on their own.
Ever listen to a speech from Castro or Quadaffi? Remember the nuclear missiles Castro hosted and pointed at our cities for a first-strike option?
No, the 'You are for us or against us' doctrine is a political reality in today's world. So pick a side, we're through playing games.
The US refused to sign up to the International Criminal Court
Ah yes, a holy relic of contention for you Leftists.
Too bad. We aren't going to subjugate our sovereignty to the same kind of hostile numnuts running the Court that run the UN. Never going to happen, not as long as we're armed to the teeth both militarally and individually.
For every element of the above that you disagree with I want a source as your reference.
Blow me. I can dredge up Conservative counterparts to Fisk, Palast, Chomsky et al. just as easily as you can dump your Liberal/Leftist Op-Ed Columnists.
But I haven't the time and you wouldn't accept them anyway, so why should I toss pearls before swine?
Just as I thought, INVAR. You took no time whatsoever to digest the beautiful material that I presented before you. You launched into your ready-made meal answers, just as you have done inumerable times before.
When I said I would fence with you, I meant it. Now go away, and support each and every one of your points with third party evidence, as opposed to your own hidden-agenda method.
I shall just tackle one point before I retire to bed. You mentioned something about Castro pointing missiles at the US, which led to the Bay of Pigs' incident. Well, chumsky, I loved the way in which you cautiously omitted the fact that the US had missiles pointing at Russia, from Turkey, well before the Russians put missiles on Cuba. This is a prime examplioni of when anther country behaves in the very same manner as the US, the American **** crows a dreary cry when other nations behave like it does. Just for you diary, the Americans removed the missiles from Turkey following a deal with Krustchev (sic)
Perhaps Britain should have bombed Boston, when the IRA supporters were funding the Irish Republican Army, in the same way the the US bombed Iraq because it vaguely claimed that Saddam Hussein's regime had something to do with Sept' 11th 2001. This example is called a "Compared Opposite", where American behaviour is used against it, in the same way that
the rest of the world now has every right to strike the US on the basis of that seedy doctrine called pre-emptive strike. Yes, it's a giggle isn't it, military man?
Anyway, I would like you to go away, study the points I made earlier and come back to me with third party literature. Only then shall I take you seriously and begin fencing.
Adios
Mr. Cargo.
Oh, yes, you're so percipient that you didn't even know that I AM Preston Likely, the majestic analyst. How careless of you. not to spot it. Another reason why I do not take you seriously. Sleep well and open your eyes.
Just as I thought, INVAR. You took no time whatsoever to digest the beautiful material that I presented before you.
You mean Leftist diatribe and talking points. Yes, I've heard them all before - you people have posted and spouted them ad nauseum until we can recite your mantras from rote.
You launched into your ready-made meal answers,
No, no no.....my reply to you was baked fresh for each attempt at a point you made.
When I said I would fence with you, I meant it.
You call what you posted 'fencing'?
Sorry, looks more like hopscotch for girlies if you ask me.
Now go away,
Don't count on it. I plan to stay and irritate you people by posting my mind until you complain and whine loud enough to the mods to get me booted out of here so the only 'free speech' is YOUR speech.
and support each and every one of your points with third party evidence, as opposed to your own hidden-agenda method.
Nothing's hidden. Unlike you rabid Socialists that disguise yourselves as 'intellectuals', 'reasonable', 'compassionate', 'understanding', 'non-judgemental' - I freely admit to being a red-blooded American Constitutional Conservative with an attitude.
As to "third party evidence" - NOTHING you provided is "3rd party evidence". It is all the same tired Leftist Op-Ed columnists that are routinely identified by their ideological comments in-column.
As I said - I can do the same as you can - and post my preferred ideological columnists in like-manner. Go to heritagefoundation.com, us.gov, freerepublic.com and do your own research, I'm not going to waste my time by throwing steak to the rats.
You mentioned something about Castro pointing missiles at the US,.......This is a prime examplioni of when anther country behaves in the very same manner as the US, the American **** crows a dreary cry when other nations behave like it does.
Ask us if we care anymore. Arguing with you twits is like tryng to herd feral cats across a lake. It's an exercize in futility. Neither one of us is going to change the other's mind - so the deal is this: America is going to drive the globe - you can either come along for the ride, or sit on the side of the road as we once again pass you on by and leave you in the dust.
You can continue to toss rocks at us, but if you piss us off - we'll turn around and run your scrawny arse over with our giant gas-guzzling SUV while shooting our guns in the air and then you can perhaps go to the UN and pass a resolution or something.
Perhaps Britain should have bombed Boston, when the IRA supporters were funding the Irish Republican Army,
Had Britain provided hard evidence of such and worked with our LEO's, I'm sure SWAT teams could have pulled a Waco for you toutsuete.
in the same way the the US bombed Iraq because it vaguely claimed that Saddam Hussein's regime had something to do with Sept' 11th 2001.
No We bombed Sadaam for not complying with UN687 or the 16 others that followed.
This example is called a "Compared Opposite"
No, it's called a non-sequiter.
where American behaviour is used against it, in the same way that the rest of the world now has every right to strike the US on the basis of that seedy doctrine called pre-emptive strike. Yes, it's a giggle isn't it, military man?
Bring it on Bub. Gather your jihad pals and homicide bombing proxies and let's get down with it. Winner take all. Take a good look at the pics of Uday and Qusay - America will give you boys the same treatment and line you all up right beside them. Don;t f*ck with the bull son, you'll get the horns - and as you are finding out, the enemies of America don't fare too well.
Anyway, I would like you to go away
Not gonna happen.
Pass a resolution or something, b*tch to the mods and show everyone how 'tolerant' you people are of opposing viewpoints.
study the points I made earlier and come back to me with third party literature.
I don't remember signing up for your class on America Bashing professor. In fact I'm sure of it.
Only then shall I take you seriously and begin fencing.
I don't care how you take me, serious or otherwise. I can care less what you think - and as to your 'fencing skills'......my ten-year-old daughter can take you and hack you to bits in moments.
Don't bother picking up a sword or weapon - you wouldn't know how to use them. After all, having a battle of logic with an unarmed opponent such as yourself is of no challenge.
Rumour has it that Mr. Cargo is wildly birding about this church of political debate claiming to be me. Can anybody verify this little tantalising tit bit for yours truly?
As for INVAR, my gifted morsel of advice today is thus: that he should start to read a little more in order to divest his brain of the knot of misinformation that is currently devilishly strung around his mind’s windpipe, for his ideas are being viciously throttled, rendering them to a series of grotesque products of the imagination, like a dying man’s panicked last words. Of course, not everything he says is discoloured, this would be a generalisation on my part and, as most percipient types should know, generalisations are merely clouds of dust that blow into one’s face, and we don’t like that sort of thing, do we chaps?
I am going to offer a series of books for INVAR to read, which I hope he will, and maybe then, once he’s had time to digest the material I’m about to proffer, we can begin to discuss matters of geopolictical importance on an adult to adult basis. You never know, INVAR might even experience an epiphany if he dares to consume the gorgeous books in the list below:
“Going Off The Rails” - John Plender (Globalisation)
“The World We Live In” - Will Hutton
“No Logo” - Naomi Klein
“Fast Food Nation” - Eric Schlossser
“9-11” - Noam Chomsky
“Necessary Illusions” - Naom Chomsky
“The Best Democracy Money Can Buy” - Greg Palast
“Games People Play” - Eric Berne (Psychology)
Another thing, can INVAR begin to use references to some of his rather imaginative opinions: he seems to be operating in a vacuum at this juncture in time.
The one primary aspect of all the discussions that INVAR has willfully overlooked is the very fact that the US is no better and no worse than any other power house that has ever existed in the history of nation states. It plunder precious earthly resources for its own gain and at the expense of the country it is subtly pilfering from. It preaches humanity whilst behaving barbarously. It claims to be democratic, whilst practising a form of capitalism that is so extreme that it borders on the point of corporate fascism (read Eric Schlosser’s book, Fast Food Nation). It inculcates its people with notions of freedom of speech, but castrates those who dare to question the nature of the US animal, hanging the label of anti-patriotism around the enquirer’s neck. In a nut shell, the US is plagued by internal conflict and self doubt, which is why so many indigenous Americans desparately clamber to fly the national flag with a view to aim to remind themselves just who they are: an insecure nation that needs to constantly try to remind itself just who and what it is. It’s this sense of insecurity that has driven many US governments to inflict pathological rage upon countless nations on this planet.
The upshot to this analysis is this: the US is ordinary because it has not transcended the mania that dogs all imperial powers and risen above the pathological condition that is engendered when a nation occupies the throne of super power or imperialist governor. Ergo, you Americans out there, stop furballing the dreary line, “God Bless America”, because this is such an affront to God’s sensibility.
It is notable from the way in which INVAR conducts his conversations that he shows no outwards signs of scepticism, which is very typical of a person who his a non-reflective thinkers. Let’s have a look at a memorable quotation of mine, which may shed a little light on this matter.
“Intelligent scepticism is the ballast in one's thinking. It helps to maintain a sense of equilibrium during our mental odyssey across the numerous stormy political oceans that we shall encounter during our life time. Without such ballast we are likely to capsize either to the extreme left or the extreme right, resulting in the stagnation of our mental momentum. Of course the buoyant upright position (healthy scepticism) enables one to instinctively sway moderately from the left to the right during our mental journey, propelling our minds forever forwards and thus avoiding being shipwrecked on those morbid islands that dwell on the extremes of existence, where one’s cries fall prey to the talons of utter remoteness.”
Aside from the lack of scepticism that he shows towards his own country’s political affairs, we have to take a look at another aspect of his character: the fact that he plainly believes that the US is some sort of altruistic force. Those who traffic in ideas of altruism amuse me greatly.
Now, seeing how I know the human condition extremely well, I can conclude that there is no such thing as altruism, in the literal sense of the word. Humans and nations operate, not selflessly, but on the basis of quid pro quo - something in return for something. A reciprocal behaviour. We DO NO, under any circumstance without the condition of a pay off/reward. This condition renders any statement about the US being an altruistic force as utterly naive and juvenile.
INVAR praised the US for the billions in aid that it gives to the world. Well, let me address this idea of aid, which is diaphanously linked with provisos. For example, Bush has just pledged $15 billion in aid to Africa. This looks like a fantastic gift on the surface of things, however, it comes with a massive condition. In order for those African nations to receive aid they MUST abandon their contraception centres forthwith. Why? Because Bush is using what is called the “Gag Rule”, which was conceived by that sordid clown, Reagan back in 1984, a rule which basically ties the hands of a nation that would like to receive aid from the US (you will find no such rule in the conditions set by the UK in its foreign aid to Africa). The Gag Rule is important to Bush because it is a pay back to the evangelical Christians who voted him into power. The most invidious aspect of the aid that Bush has pledged to Africa in order to help slow down the spread of aids is the fact that it will help to spread aids, seeing how the countries who are dependent on aid are being forced to close down their contraception centres if they are to qualify for available monies. It is another horrible example of the do-gooders on the far Right, who have been quoted as saying that the African should practice abstinence and behave in a Christian manner if they are to receive any fiscal help from the US. It’s an arrogant and clouded approach to worldly philanthropic duties. Of course, Clinton sensibly binned the Gag Rule on day one of his coming to power. Bush, sadly, brought it back at the behest of his sponsors.
Do some research on the Gag Rule. It is decidedly interesting.
And again we have Preston SPAMMING the threads yet again - so as to massage his bloated self-inflated ego and Elitist hubris of the absurd.
Again Preston demonstrates the inability to argue the points made, but instead employs the tactic of smearing the character and skills of the debater because his own points and ideology are morally and factually bankrupt of any substance.
Of course it would only be a matter of time before Preston revealed himself to be the Smug-American-hating-Self-Appointed-Socialist Elitist that I knew him to be, and lo- his own words reveal what he is.
It plunder precious earthly resources for its own gain and at the expense of the country it is subtly pilfering from.
The usual Leftist charge by those whom loathe Captialism and kneel at the altar of Marx.
He conveniently omits that America BUYS the resources he charges we are pilfering and stealing. But according to Prestonites, BUYING resources is as evil as stealing because they should be shared and distributed evenly by those whom appoint themselves as the arbiters of who should be allowed what.
It preaches humanity whilst behaving barbarously.
Preston thinks all genocidal madmen should be loved and coddled and never confronted or stopped by force.
In light of the world's examples of what constitutes 'barbarism' that people like Preston honor and admire, - America will take his insulting and absurd charge as a badge of honor.
It claims to be democratic, whilst practising a form of capitalism that is so extreme that it borders on the point of corporate fascism
The Marxist speaks!
FYI - America is a Republic, not a Democracy, practicing a form of Capitalism that has propelled us to world leadership and made us the most wealthy and prosperous nation in all history.
All Marxist folks like Preston here can do is shout at how rotten we are as the America bus pulls away, leaving him once again and his ideology in the dust of irrelevance.
It inculcates its people with notions of freedom of speech, but castrates those who dare to question the nature of the US animal
Another spurious charge with no substance. Listen Clueless, you might check into watching C-span, CNN, MSNBC and the host of Democrats and Liberals who trash this nation and Administration HOURLY.
hanging the label of anti-patriotism around the enquirer’s neck.
Yes, you Liberals, Leftists, Socialists and Marxists certainly HATE being called and labelled what you are.
Yet at the same time, you people continue to hang labels of 'racist'. 'homophobe', 'intolerant', 'extremist' etc. on every single issue, comment or person who disagrees with your ideology.
And you do so HOURLY - while loudly complaining about the label you yourselves have hung on your own necks in the eyes of most Americans.
In a nut shell, the US is plagued by internal conflict and self doubt
That is an intent promulgated and promoted by you Leftists on a daily basis.
which is why so many indigenous Americans desparately clamber to fly the national flag with a view to aim to remind themselves just who they are
That's a comic analysis of what American Patriotism is coming from one who has no allegience to anything aside from his own ego and political religion.
an insecure nation that needs to constantly try to remind themselves just who and what they are.
No, most of America knows exactly who and what we are, which is why you frauds on the Left are beside yourselves with rage over our support of American policy and the Bush Administration.
This has resulted in smug Leftists such as yourself to come up with these absurd anti-American derrogatories that purport to explain the what and why of how we are so backwards and evil in your eyes.
Yet America moves on from one success to another, and all you clowns on the Left have is spittle, venom and intellectual dishonesty to assuage your broken, irrelevant and failed beliefs.
you Americans out there, stop furballing the dreary line, “God Bless America”, because this is such an affront to God’s sensibility.
No it's not. It's an affirmation that our power, wealth, propsperity and system is due to God's benevolent blessings - by which we could have never achieved our current status of global superpower without.
Tut, tut, military man. Returning to the armchair of repetition again with the Leftist accusations. What a limited thought spectrum you have, dear boy.
I see you didn't answer any of the brilliant points that were raised in Preston's previous contribution. You just drove around the issues again in that tired vehicle called woeful ignorance. Perhaps, one day, notwithstanding that you may collapse through self loathing, you will find the brake, stop and pause for a moment before launching into a rather delerious prattle that is better suited to those lovable simians that roam the jungles of Rwanda.
Returning to the armchair of repetition again with the Leftist accusations.
You people keep providing the evidence, over and over, and over and over again.
What a limited thought spectrum you have, dear boy.
If you people didn't continue to operate out of the single Leftist mantra playbook time and again, I wouldn't be stuck sounding like a broken record shooting your regurgitated nonsense down.
I see you didn't answer any of the brilliant points that were raised in Preston's previous contribution.
Never to your satsfaction I'm sure because such an acknowledgement would only come if I parroted and agreed with everything you people vomit out of your agenda.
You just drove around the issues again in that tired vehicle called woeful ignorance.
You exemplify that which you accuse.
Perhaps, one day, notwithstanding that you may collapse through self loathing, you will find the brake, stop and pause for a moment before launching into a rather delerious prattle that is better suited to those lovable simians that roam the jungles of Rwanda.
Only when your Agenda and Ideology is completely dead and buried in the sands of irrelevance.
as I've just educated USA1, I'll let you into a secret too, namely let's not forget who helped the US to defeat the British in the US War of Independence - your very lovable friends the French. Didums. Without the French flotilla, you would NEVER have beaten the British. Remember, the US was losing to the Brits until it called upon the French to aid them with its phalanx of ships sent by Louis 16th. AMERICA, ERGO, OWES ITS EXISTENCE TO FRANCE AS A SOVEREIGN STATE. Take a butchers at your sanitised history books, Sherlock. The French were given Lousiana in return for their deeds, which was then sold to Spain, and finally claimed by the US under the Lousiana Treaty of 1803. Another thing, Lousiana was named after the French King, Louis 14th, The Sun King.
So, whilst you are renaming your French fries, Freedom Fries, why don't you dispense with all the other inumerable Socailist-linked French words, eg, hotel, vinegar, salmon, orange, lemon, garage, entreprenneur, discoteque,
bank, champagne, felony, traitor, petty, damage, prison, marriage, justice, jury, parliament, govern, prince ad infinitum. And, while you're at it, get rid of all the words containing the cluster "qu", which is Norman too. Perhaps you should call French kissing, Freedom kissing while you're at it. Oh yes, Blowsy, the Americans do triviality like no other nation.
let's not forget who helped the US to defeat the British in the US War of Independence - your very lovable friends the French.
Ahhh yes. The good French, back when they were once a Republic and understood Liberty.
How America misses them.
Of course we have always been mindful and thankful of their arrival at Yorktown in 1781 to blast the British from afar after farmers with pitchforks battled them single-handedly for six years.
Yes. We thank the former Frenchmen who are dead and buried along with their Republic that France chucked aside in favor of an Emperor and subsequently a quasi Socialist state.
Without the French flotilla, you would NEVER have beaten the British.
Your history is ridiculously flawed again....as usual.
You see - all the French did with their BLOCKADE was trap Cornwallis' ability to escape with what remained of his army to the sea.
The Colonists all by their lonesome (with some clever sneaking around by Washington and his troops) were the ones to corner Cornwallis at Yorktown.
Now of course the French blockade was vital because if Cornwallis had escaped, he would have returned with a larger navy - but I daresay your assesment that we NEVER could have beaten the British is absurd in the face of facts that over the course of 6 years of bloody conflict and losses we DID beat them back.
AMERICA, OWES ITS EXISTENCE TO FRANCE AS A SOVEREIGN STATE.
Mighty hubris of you to make such a ridiculous claim - but since the French Republic that aided the Colonists is long-dead, we owe nobody nothing.
What America has become is due to our own efforts, and no one else's.
But thanks for trying to get the French to once again ride our coattails.
So, whilst you are renaming your French fries, Freedom Fries, why don't you dispense with all the other inumerable Socailist-linked French ........
Good idea. We'll definitely take it under advisement. Maybe we will have a sweepstakes contest to remake our language and purge it of all things French.
"You see - all the French did with their BLOCKADE was trap Cornwallis' ability to escape with what remained of his army to the sea."
Silly boy. If you'd read Cornwallis's personal account, instead of repeating verbatim, some internet account, you'd realise that Cornwallis never had any intention to flee from Yorktown (nor was he caught in a blockade) but he attempted to defend it to the hilt. He failed to defend it due to to French overpowering manoeuvres (not through indigenous American pressure - US forces were, at this point in time, reduced to donkeys with jammed rifles and minus zero morale, which relegated them to a comprehensively useless force - a bit like today's events in Iraq, eh?), hence the reason why Cornwallis was so depressed later in life, when he was governor of India, because he lost to the French and not to the Americans.
Yes, bozo, the French ARE your saviours, and you may attempt to block this aspect of your country's history from you textbooks, but the facts speak for themselves and will remain carved in stone for all to see. You cannot be selective over history, just when it doesn't suit you, as you attempt to do.
You did the right thing in retreating from the topic of the French-aided victory at Yorktown, and I think it was noble of you to acknowledge the enormous significance of the French intervention at the aforesaid location, for without their help at that juncture in time, it would have led to the US army's deafeat at the hands of the British, and the course of history would now be distinctly different. The US and the French are historical bedfellows, which is so gorgeously poetic to all those decidedly ignorant Americans who cannot see historical perspective due to the miasma that rises from thier very own steaming bowel discharge in which they stand.
It is plain to see that the US has a sanitised sort of history, whereas we erudite Europeans traffic in only the unsanitised version.
Before I leave this political forum, which, just for the record, I have enjoyed immensely over the course of the last week, I would like to leave you with this final thought.
If I could sit here in a thousand years’ time and talk about Europe and the USA on all matters of political relevance, I would be confronted by an unquestionably unrecognisable world, which leads me to this conclusion.
As most of us know, the USA, as a sovereign state, is just over two-hundred years’ old, and Europe, well, many of its sovereign states are approaching a thousand years’ old. Now, given the climatic of political changes that have hurricaned across Europe's continent (almost the size of the US) over the course of the last thousand years, we can safely say, beyond the realm of dispute, that the USA, just like Europe has, will pass through an equal number of extreme conversions, both politically and culturally. Such seismic shifts, for example, civil wars, will, inevitably plague the US in the future (WW1 and WW2 were merely European civil wars - a process of reordering). I stress this prophetic thought because, in the-not-too-distant future, the current white Anglo, Saxon, protestant rule will be superseded by a new dominating force, a force which is likely to be the ever-growing population of Hispanics, Mexicans, Koreans or other current minority ethnic groups that are outbreeding the white Anglo Saxons.
I am writing this account of possible future worldly events, merely because I have noticed, whilst visiting this Inreview platform, that many Americans give the clear impression that their position as the world’s only super power will remain so for all time. Now, let’s visit the masterful Greek philosopher, Heraclitus to counter this notion. Heraclitus said, “Nothing is at rest, and everything is in a state of flux”, meaning that nothing EVER stays the same. Change is one of the few things that are universal certainties. With this view in mind, we shall see the US, in the not-too-distant future, fall prey to the talons of change, which will see it fracture into conflicting political units that will be equally as corrosive and extreme as Fascism and Communism that snaked across Europe. You see, it’s all well and good for certain Americans to rant and rave about such invidious political ideologies such as European Fascism and Communism, however, the US has not had to pass through such a degree of lengthy political evolution as Europe has in terms of conflicting sovereign states (let’s not fool ourselves by claiming that the US had the same fervant Fascist and Communists that Europe hashad, because this would be trivialising matters).
Certain Americans can keep repeating how proud they are of their country’s achievements until they are red, white and blue in the face, however, they must remember that the US is still in its infancy as a nation state, and has yet to pass through the obstreperous teenage years, which will present America with problems that are thoroughly unimaginable to most Americans at this juncture in time. You will only be capable of judging America’s contribution to the plight of humanity once it has passed through such a potential violent epoch in its evolution, such as Europe has.
It has taken Europe one whole millennium to begin to coalesce into a unified state, an entity which is called the European Union. A miraculous achievement considering the disparate peoples of Europe and their equally differing histories (yes, even the EU is finding the going difficult, but it, too, is passing through its own evolution).
Fascism and Communism are now just distant vague memories in the annals of European history, merely part of Europe’s process of evolution in this experiment we call existence. The European Union, a phoenix from the ashes, has the potential to become one of the truly great worldly forces that have ever visited this planet, owing to its mistakes, experiences and eclectic learning. The US has all this to come, and, for all those Americans who delight in uptalking their nation, only once it has had to experience what Europe has had to tolerate, will it be judged by history.
So, remember, the US will not remain the world’s only super power, just as the might of the British Empire collapsed, and the Austrian/Hungarian, Japanes, Russian, Roman, Ottoman, French and Babylonians’ empires collapsed. Look to India for clues as to where the next hyper power will emerge.
What is it with these people like Mr. Cargo and Preston SPAMMING each and every thread I'm on with a duplicate reply?????
The following is my EXACT reply given to the SAME REPLY Mr. cargo posted in the Impeach Bush thread.
If I could sit here in a thousand years’ time and talk about Europe and the USA on all matters of political relevance, I would be confronted by an unquestionably unrecognisable world
Truer words were never spoken, and I daresay you have little idea yourself of what it will actually be like.
which leads me to this conclusion.....we can safely say, beyond the realm of dispute, that the USA, just like Europe has, will pass through an equal number of extreme conversions, both politically and culturally.
Turn on the news, it's happening now, not to mention the fate of all the Republics that have come before us.
Such seismic shifts, for example, civil wars, will, inevitably plague the US in the future
Unquestionably. To our complete and utter destruction I might add.
I stress this prophetic thought because, in the-not-too-distant future, the current white Anglo, Saxon, protestant rule will be superseded by a new dominating force.......
You left out Militant Islam on your list.
I am writing this account of possible future worldly events, merely because I have noticed, whilst visiting this Inreview platform, that many Americans give the clear impression that their position as the world’s only super power will remain so for all time.
Hell no. America has been discarding and ignoring the very things that propelled her to superpowerdom in the first place. She is capitulating to ideals and tenets foreign to her founding principles, she is awash in wealth to the point that her people are asleep in abundance, they are not vigilant to enemies, they are ignorant of her establishing principles, they have watered-down her values, compromised with evil, adopted culture and practice toxic to her liberty and have relegated their birthrights to those running a federal state.
What I expound on are those things that once were a hallmark of American belief, practice and principle. Some of it has come back to the fore post 9/11, but again is waning to the incessant attacks by those fostering another agenda poisonous to it's very existance.
“Nothing is at rest, and everything is in a state of flux”, meaning that nothing EVER stays the same.
Scripture tells us there is nothing new under the sun. The technology changes, the machinations change, the borders change......human nature doesn't change.
With this view in mind, we shall see the US, in the not-too-distant future, fall prey to the talons of change,
It is already being strangled by the talons of Liberal Socialism.
which will see it fracture into conflicting political units that will be equally as corrosive and extreme as Fascism and Communism that snaked across Europe.
Yes, it's called Liberal Democrats and Constitutional Conservatives, with a giant jellied mass of Moderates between them with no principles but to 'get along' and 'go with the flow'.
You see, it’s all well and good for certain Americans to rant and rave about such invidious political ideologies such as European Fascism and Communism, however, the US has not had to pass through such a degree of lengthy political evolution as Europe has in terms of conflicting sovereign states
And that my dear sir is PRECISELY WHY the Founding Fathers structured our Republic and Governing Documents in the way and manner they have - because they had all the political evolutions, histories, oppressions and conflicts in-mind and freshly experienced when they forged the Republic. Their stern warnings regarding human nature and the eventual fall into pure Democracy have taken 200 years of slow erosion to get us to this particular point of time where we can see the inevitable fall of which we were warned would happen if we did not remain a moral people, and a strict people safeguarding our liberties.
Certain Americans can keep repeating how proud they are of their country’s achievements until they are red, white and blue in the face,
Those very achievements are what put us in the geopolitcal position of world leadership and prosperity we have enjoyed.
You will only be capable of judging America’s contribution to the plight of humanity once it has passed through such a potential violent epoch in its evolution, such as Europe has.
Right, tell the world to judge us not on what we have already done and accomplished, but to judge us when you dcide to tell them to. What hubris!
What can we say about Europe's contribution to the 'plight of humanity' since she came out of her 'violent evolutionary epochs'?
Not much in comparison to that which America has ALREADY contributed and influenced the world.
America passed through it's violent evolutionary epoch in the 1860's - and has since achieved a level of world power, status and prosperity that no European, or any other nation on earth has EVER achieved.
America in her short time has actually RAISED the standard of living across much of the globe - as our standard of living is sought in emulation the world over.
It has only been 50 plus odd years since Europe had worn the mantle of violent epoch, and some places in Eastern Europe still yet wear it. I hardly call such a time-period evidence of the maturity and leadership you cite.
It has taken Europe one whole millennium to begin to coalesce into a unified state, an entity which is called the European Union.
And as I have pointed out - each and EVERY time Europe began the dream of unifying into a single state/empire/Reich/religious seat - it has resulted in larger and more brutal worldwide warfare.
A miraculous achievement considering the disparate peoples of Europe and their equally differing histories (yes, even the EU is finding the going difficult, but it, too, is passing through its own evolution).
You are Iron and Clay mixed, and you will be forged into an entity that are the feet of a behemoth dream once again realized.
Fascism and Communism are now just distant vague memories in the annals of European history,
Sorry, those ideologies are very much alive and well. They can be seen and heard in the speeches at the UN, the Parliment in Brussels, the solutions and recipies being fostered and served in EU policy, the posts on the net, and the raw hatred of America via protests on Europes streets. Such ideologies are being cloaked in new rainment, but their ultimate purposes remains unchanged.
The European Union, a phoenix from the ashes, has the potential to become one of the truly great worldly forces that have ever visited this planet
And indeed you shall be! You shall be great and mighty and terrible! The world will never have seen your like before. You will be unified in economics, military power, influence and even religion. You shall be great and truly great.
You have risen from the ashes of a millenium of failed attempts of global conquest, and your deadly wound has indeed healed. You will be like iron - mighty, and strong, and respected unlike any beast that has come before. You shall sit in control of all commerce, loved by the world's merchants and ruthless in your meting of justice. Likewise you will be clay, brittle and fragile by old rivalries, competing nationalities and the squabblings of differences in cultures. But for a time, you indeed shall be all you suggest and hope - and the world will be your oyster and marvel upon you.
You shall crush and trample in both monetary economics and military might those who oppose you and bring a peace to the Middle East and Jerusalem. You shall be the rod of correction on my nation. A shaken world will flock to your banner. Your spirit recharged. Your only true rival is sitting to your East - and in time, when you are ready - you shall turn to face it down.
The US has all this to come
Indeed it does.
and, for all those Americans who delight in uptalking their nation, only once it has had to experience what Europe has had to tolerate, will it be judged by history.
No my good sir, it will be judged by both you and God, and your Phoenix from the ashes will be the executioner of what is left of us.
So, remember, the US will not remain the world’s only super power, just as the might of the British Empire collapsed, and the Austrian/Hungarian, Japanes, Russian, Roman, Ottoman, French and Babylonians’ empires collapsed.
But your soon-coming Phoenix will be a horn to arise amidst the crowns of all these failed empires, and thus fulfil that which they had but dreamed of.
Look to India for clues as to where the next hyper power will emerge.
No, look no further than than Brussels, the union of which this Phoenix he touts is arising. And aready I see that some of her eyes are looking east.
Just wanted to say this is a very amusing thread. The undisguised intellectual masturbation of cargo and preston lacks any sense of sobriety.
Do you really think you sound as clever to others as you imagine?
Argumentum ad hominum is fallacious so if that's the foundation of your argument, please refrain from further posting.
Just to show the depth of my ignorance, I have a question:
Did the French try to help the colonies defeat the British for the sake of our freedom (that the king so righteously cherished), or did they just pop in at the end to snub the Brits?
Ahoy Charles, my kaleidoscopically coloured lolly pop,
"Do you really think you sound as clever to others as you imagine?"
There is no question about my cleverness. In fact I am two and a half times cleverer than I care to imagine. The plain truth is, my little chemical-free turnip, my cleverness is so gargantuan that it is currently germinating through the seams of my imagination and triggering a whole gamut of new strands of unquestionable cleverness.
Anyway, lets refrain from being serious. Something more trivial perhaps like the issue of the French/US victory over the Brits at Yorktown, resulting in the founding of the US as a sovereign state.
Yes, it can be argued that the French aided the floundering US army in order to stab the British in the heart in return for French losses in the Hundred Years' War against the British, and other Anglo/French conflicts pre-17th century. Of course, that wasn't the only reason why the French did what they did. As with all human actions, and actions by nations, the French government operated on the quid pro quo basis - something in return for something - and that something was a little pay off called the state of Louisiana, which, as you already know, was presented to the French on a platter by the new US government for services rendered (it can also be argued that the French received trade concessions with the new US government, however, you can do your research and visit that little historical shaft and mine some golden nuggets for yourself. I'm sure US history books have a whole different slant on events relating to the US War of Independence).
Because this forum can at times be both interesting and enlightening, coupled with the constraint that many of us do have lives and families (=not a lot of time), let's us please try to keep posts focused as much as possible on a specific point related to the context of the forum.
It would be helpful to follow this rule: at least 70% of your post should pertain to a specific thread of the Iraq topic, at most 20% to other historical references that can be linked to your point, at the very most 10% to describe your own personal talents, etc., if you really feel that is necessary because of personal insecurity and the need to justify why you think we should read your posts.
through popular demand I have made a brief return to the forum and shall tackle a thread that you and the great Preston were dealing with.
There are many reasons why the US/British invaded Iraq, and it takes wilful stupidity in order to believe that Hussein’s third-world country was a threat to America and its so-called allies. It was an economic war, just as 99.9% of all wars are. The simple fact that Hussein was no longer compliant with Washington's was one of the primary reasons why his country was attacked by US and British forces. And because he was no longer compliant meant that he was no longer useful to the US as a rogue operator like he was in the 1980s when the US aided, armed and fully supported his regime, and, let’s not forget that the US government casually turned a blind eye when it learned that Hussein’s army was gassing Kurds in 1988.
Another reason why the US attacked Iraq was because the Israeli government, which is the USA’s prostitute, wanted rid of Hussein, because Iraq was considered by Israel to be the number one enemy in the region.
A third reason is because Hussein’s government was going to stop supplying oil to America in a response to the USA’s constant support for Israel, which breaks UN and Geneva convention regulations daily.
A fourth reason why the US invaded Iraq, was because India and China were moving into that region in terms of interest in Iraq’s oil reserves, and, as you may know, China and India have been earmarked by the US government as the next to potential superpowers. So, control over India and China’s oil sources would allow the US government to control and monitor both countries’ destinies in terms of emerging as potential superpowers.
If there is any country in the world which is a threat to the US then it is North Korea, with its million-strong professional army. Now, seeing how the US only seems to attack week third world countries, I doubt it is going to tell the North Koreans what to do. But that is another issue.
Try telling two hundred and fifty thousand dead East Timorians about your view on the US invasion of Iraq, and they would come back and endlessly haunt you, for those East Timorians, who only wanted independence from Indonesia, were brutally murdered by Suharto’s military, which was armed by the USA. Try telling your story to the victims of Pinochet’s government, which was responsible for torturing and killing 3000 of its own civilians in Chile. Pinochet, who was levered into power by the CIA and the Nixon government. Try telling your story to the 250,000 dead Guatemalan’s who died in a civil war in the 1950s when the CIA helped to overthrow the legally elected Armas just because he wanted to nationalise land belonging to the brother of Dulles, the then head of the CIA (the company was the American Fruit Company). Was it such a crime to nationalise land in order to make money to enable you to enrich your own country? The American government thought so. The American government also thought it was wrong for Mossedeq in 1953 to nationalise foreign oil-drilling companies in Iran in order to enrich his own people, hence the reason why Mossedeq was overthrown with the help of more CIA meddling, and thus replaced by the Shah, whose human rights’ record is rocky at best. Try telling your story to the people of Cuba, who, under the rule of Batista, a cut throat pro American (brought to power by the US government) suffered immensely, while the riches went to mafia-styled US business, which monopolised the Island (US parasitical economic behaviour). Castro reversed this picture when he rightly overthrew the dictator, Batista (and Castro has been demonised ever since just because he acted in his own country’s interest and not in the Americans). Try telling your story to the people of Panama, who, under yet another dictator, Noriega, supported by the US, suffered too. There’s also Pastrana in Colombia and Somoza in Nicaragua, not to forget the Turkish Kurds who were killed in 1993 by the Turkish government, which was supplied weapons by the Clinton administration. Please look up some of the names mentioned because you will discover that they were all dictators; all of whom behaved barbarically towards their own fellow countrymen. But so long as they remained pro-American their detrimental actions could be overlooked by Washington. So, the only mistake Hussein made was to have the audacity to his back on Washington.
It’s the moralising and pontificating from US politicians and many of its citizens that really irritates the hell out of so many outsiders, and it is laughable really considering the absolute disgusting way in which successive US governments have overlooked the behaviour of the innumerable dictatorships it has backed. The US has to learn to be consistent before lecturing the rest of the world on how to behave in a decent democratic way.
So, by all means, let America continually act in its own self interest, outside the realms of the geopolitical forum (UN), but remember, if that's how you want the US to play it, every other country will take it upon itself to do likewise (and Darwin advised us to work together in order to best guarantee that the human species stands a better chance of surviving. The UN was and still is the best chance we have of creating a purposeful geopolitical forum, once it has learned to get tougher with the maniacs who occupy this world, George Bush included.
I'm not sure if you realize it but you seem to be posting the exact same thing verbatum on different threads.
That is not polite. I expected more from such a well educated and erudite person.
Don't you think it will get annoying to people trying to participate in the forum if half the threads are just full of your cut/paste opinions repeated over and over?
Not to say that your participation isn't appreciated of course. But please try to respond just once.
I apologise on behalf of Mr. Cargo. I rang him yesterday and he told me that his computer is playing him up. I said, "are you sure it's not you who is playing up?" He laughed of course. He said sorry for the accidental multipal postings. He said he's going to mend his computer before he dots another "i" or crosses anther "t".
hth
are you from Mississippi? maybe you know my cuzzin' Orville, he's from Chickasaga , bit north of main street.