the dark mood of the latest book(this is for people who have read it)

Book 5: HP & the Order of the Phoenix Forum

I loved this new book, but I could see from the very beginning that things were never going to be the same. It wasn't light hearted like the previous books(even goblet of fire wasn't this depressing) it was all about anger and changes. I hate the fact that Sirius had to die.He was too young to die.And I can't figure out exactly where that archway leads to.
I felt so sorry for Harry , his refusal in accepting the truth till the end was so pitiful. But I've thought of something, when he wanted to find out whether Sirius was really tortured by Voldemort, he should've thought of using the two-way mirror because sirius would've kept it with him at all times in case harry needed him.Then he could have contacted sirius and found out whether he was alive or not.Don't you think so?

but Harry didn't know about the mirror till the very end of the book, whick would have been really helpful during the whole book. i got sooo mad at Harry when he found it at the end!
WHY DIDN'T U CHECK SOONER!!!!!!!!!

Harry didn't even open up that package until it was too late. And for that, I'm sorry to see. That would have been extremely helpful. But, maybe he will be able to use it with someone else. Who knows WHO has the other one now.

didn't Sirus die with it ????
and then if he didn't who could possibly get it, the house elf???

I have no idea if Sirius had the mirror on him. And who knows, since he went through the veil. If it was left at the house, anyone from the Order, or even the nasty Kreacher, could have it. Sirius could have left it somewhere that Dumbledore knows about. But, without JKR bringing that into the story, there is no telling.

Could someone explain to me why Sirius would not be coming back as a ghost.

I remember reading the conversation between Harry and Headless Nick and he mentioned that some wizards pre-plan themselves to come back as a ghost. I'm not sure if I got that right.

If anyone knows, could they explain it to me....I'm going to read the last few chapters again.

That may be true, but it is also safe to say that Sirius didn't want to die either. Especially because of his feelings for Harry.

Also, even though he may tell himself that Harry is in good hands with Dumbledore, the Weasleys, The Order, Ron and Hermione around...deep down Sirius feels that he's the only one that can truly care for and take care of Harry. Mainly because he felt an obligation to James as well as being Harry's godfather.

So I think that taking care of Harry as his godfather and as the father Harry never had is Sirius's unfinished business. (or I guess I could just be giving reasons why Sirius shouldn't have been killed)

That is true... but if he becomes a ghost, he will STAY a ghost, forever. Even though he has responsibility to Harry, he will pass over. I can't see him becoming a ghost. And if he did, I would really be surprised.

I agree with you...I don't think that Sirius will come back as a ghost either.

Its just that, I like Harry, could probably accept the fact that Sirius is dead if he came back as a ghost. I mean, it's better than nothing. Atleast Sirius will always be there to talk to Harry and see him grow up.

To be honest, before I started reading the book, my girfriend and I were guessing who would be the character that would die. I guessed Hagrid, she guessed Neville. When we found out it was Sirius, I was so shocked.

I was shocked too! I was NOT expecting Sirius to be the one to die. I thought that it would be a student at first. But when JKR said that it was a pretty "main" character, I thought that it would have to be an adult. So, I thought that it would be one of the professor's.

For some reason, and I don't know why, I just never pictured Sirius as a "MAIN" character. I know he's a big part of Harry's life, but other than Azkaban and prior to Order of Phoenix, he only made appearances here and there.

Plus in an interview, JKR said that she cried when she killed off the character. Not that it wasn't sad that Sirius died, but just imagine what we as readers would have felt if indeed it was someone like Hagrid, Dumbledore, or even Ron that had died.

I don't think i could have handled it....too nerve racking

I agree... she did say that it was a main character, and Sirius was not a main character. But, he was an important character. I don't think that we would have liked anyone to die, unless it was a death eater, or Voldemort.

About the becoming a ghost, I beleive it was wizards only became ghosts if they feared death, not that they did not want to die because really knowone wants to die, but if you are afraid of death you will become a ghost that is why as far as we know Sirius is not a ghost because he was not afraid to die.

Would you really want Sirius to come back as a ghost?

I don't ..

I just don't see him floating around with Sir Nicolas, or chatting with Myrtle .. I wouldn't want him to ..

I do hope though that Harry can somehow communicate with Sirius - maybe in his dreams or through the veil or maybe some other way, we never thought of ..

ineli

I don't think Sirius should come back as a ghost or otherwise,no matter how hapy it makes the readers feel.It'll spoil everything and by that I mean that it will be so unrealistic and one of the best things about Harry Potter is that J.K Rowling makes it all so believable. So if Sirius suddenly came back to life or something,it would be so...so... artificial. Things like that don't happen. Even in the world of wizards and witches,dead people don't come back to life. And Sirius will definitely not become a ghost because as Sir Nicholas said, only wizards who are scared of death remain behind and Sirius was a brave man. I think it was somewhat of a relief for him when he died.Things weren't going so well.The last 15 years of his life were anything but pleasant. He had been locked up for 13 years and then even after he escaped,he had to become a fugitive.He was depressed at being stuck in the house all the time and not doing anything.In the fifth book, this was mentioned a lot. He didn't have much of a life.And this state of things would have dragged on till his innocence was proven,which wasn't going to happen too soon,given that Wormtail was safe with Voldemrot (Voldemort) in hiding.
So,I feel, if you look at the situation from Sirius's point of view,it was relief for him to die.I think the only big regret he'd have about dying would be leaving Harry alone.But I don't think he would become a ghost for him,even though he loves him very much.Its too much to ask of a person. All the fighting,the struggling, the frustration,everything came to an end and Sirius was finally able to get some well deserved rest.

very true .. I just don't agree too much with Sirius being okay with dying - I think leaving Harry is a big deal to him, Harry became his life for the past three books ..

but anyway, I like the idea I read somewhere in this message board: Harry being able to communicate with Sirius through his picture (like the previous headmasters of Hogwarts in Dumbledore's office) ..

ineli

That would be wonderful if Harry had a portrait of Sirius somewhere that he would be able to still have to communicate with. Though, how does that happen? They haven't ever explained that. How do they still communicate when they are dead. I really want to know that.

That's the beauty of the Harry Potter books. While returning from the dead is not very likely, Sirius re-emerging in some form or another (i.e. portrait) is possible.

Perhaps Sirius knew that sooner or later Voldemort was going to come out into the open and try to attack Harry. Maybe Sirius was prepared to fight to protect Harry no matter what, even if it meant dying to protect his god child. Who knows what Sirius did every day locked up in the house.

Maybe Sirius left a lot of personal items and pictures of himself just in case something were to happen to him. We all know that Sirius is dead, but JKR left that little door open for something to happen that would be a surprise to Harry and us the readers

Doesnt Harry already have a picture of sirius in that book that hagrid gave him in the first book?

You know... I don't remember if he did or not. I will have to reread those early books again just to find out. But remember, he has pictures of his parent's in there, and they can't communicate with him from that photo album.

True enough, I guess we will have to wait and see, the suspense is horrible though I hope we do not have to wait another three years for he next book.

talking about the dark mood of the book .. what did you think of Neville's parents and the fact that all the others found out? ..

and most of all .. what's all that about the candy wrappers Neville gets from his mother?

wouldn't it be cool if she is trying to communicate with her son somehow?

there are sooo many little things in the book that i need to think about .. i definitely need to reread that book soon.

ineli

Dumbledore has removed the mirror of Erised. I can't say where... but remember when Harry went back there to the mirror, and Dumbledore told him that he was going to relocate it? Was it ever mentioned where it was placed?

no it hasnt been re mentioned since the philisophers stone

Well, then I guess that we don't know where it is.

Anyway... even if Harry "used" the mirror, he would just see an image. It still wouldn't allow him to communicate. Remember when he was looking at his parent's? He didn't talk to them. I think that the only time he talked to them was when they came out of Voldemorts wand. Didn't his dad speak to him then? I can't remember. And I've packed up alllllllllll my books, except for book 5 and placed everything in storage. I can't look it up!!! RATS!

i said in my post that it would only be for the purposes of seeing him. And it was only really meant as a joke. Sorry. But Sirius' death has begun the issue of death which I think will be developed in the final two books. His departure was also inevitable because he was no longer serving the story in the way that he once did. Let's face it, a convicted killer can't do much more than remain in hiding, as is highlighted in the book.

That's okay, Mike. I think that we all just really like picking the story apart and trying to figure out new things, etc....

It's true that there is only so much that Sirius could do because he was seen as a convicted murderer, and an escaped convict. But, I still think that he was important to the story.

I agree that Sirius' death will open up a door (so to speak) about death in general, and the kids are going to see that this is real. It's going to become more serious than ever before that they are all fighting for their lives, whether they have known it before, or not.

About Sirius - I don't think he'll appear at all any more, but perhaps someone else will that's related to him... perhaps his wife or son or daughter;;
i got this idea from a fan-rumors page, and I think it's not a 100 percent trash. Sirius was too important to be gone just like that but he IS dead. And I think it would be great for Harry and interesting to the public if JKR introduced a new character that would be connected to Sirius in such a way.
By the way, the rumor i read was about Sirius's daughter coming to Hogwarts to protect Harry. Well, everything is possible.

I don't ever remember there being any mention to Sirius ever have being married, or having a child. Where was this... what book, chapter, page?????

Well, it WASN'T mentioned anywhere in the books about Sirius being married or having a child, it's just an idea... but there was a lot of characters in HP that came out of nowhere, and I'm sure JKR could find an explanation for this one not to appear before...
oh it's just crazy-fan imagination
still can't accept Sirius being dead
:-(

Okay... just checking. That would be a good idea that Sirius had some family, that no one knows about, because they have been in hiding since Sirius was set up for being a murderer.

I agree the scene with Neville's parents was great by itself, but who knows, this whole thing might turn into something bigger - like Longbottoms starting to retreat, only someone's hiding it **perhaps Malfoy??**. Now that would be cool. To bring some unexpected *:-)* into the book. And they would be really helpful for the Order.

PS KJPotter: Yes, I was thinking about something like that... it would be great..***

I would love to find out more about Neville's parents, and them being Auror's before being hospitalized. I think that there might be something to his mother giving him wrappers. You have to really wonder, is she trying to communicate with him? Warn him?

Whatever she's trying to tell him, his grandmother clearly doesn't know about it, or else is trying to prevent it. She tells him to throw it away.

Whatever she's trying to tell him, his grandmother clearly doesn't know about it, or else is trying to prevent it. She tells him to throw it away.

apologies

Little hiccups there, Mike?

Yes, his grandmother either thinks that it's nothing, or she doesn't want Neville knowing anything. She's probably afraid that something will happen to him too.

Perhaps Granny, unlike Neville, simply doesn't want to keep her hopes up, and she doesn't want Neville to hope either.
But there really could be loads of things going on Longbottoms them in future books. Why did Bellatrix&co. come to ask THEM when they were searching for Voldemort? Why not someone nearer to the Potters?
???

Could someone remind me who Neville's grandmother is parent to? Is it Frank or Alice? I don't know if that's of any significance but I've leant the book to someone at the moment so I can't check up on it. Withdrawal symptoms are starting to kick in.

I can't remember which parent she is mother to either.

Did anyone think it was kind of interesting finding out that most wizards are related to one another? I never thought that Arthur Weasley was related to Sirius. I'm surprised we didn't learn that sooner. Or maybe we did and I've forgotten because it seemed insignificant at the time.

No, I don't remember learning that earlier.
I think that there are so many little details that are going to come out in the next two books, and they won't all be good.

I agree I think that this book was just the beginning on the dark mood that we are going to see from JKR. Oh I beleive it said that Nevilles grandmother was Alice's mother but I am not 100% positive. i think we might see those wrappers again they probably will have a meaning and JKR was just planting one of her ever useful seeds for the forecoming books.

hey,

did you all have a nice weekend?

i don't think that granny is trying to prevent any communication, she is just pretty down to earth - she sees candy wrappers as they are - trash to throw away .. maybe she is sick of finding them in every pocket of Nevilles clothes ..

i don't recall whos mother Nevilles granny is, though ..

ineli

some one please tell me what TOOTP meens! thankz

The Order of the Phoenix

It's the fifth book in the Harry Potter series

Thankz

You're welcome. That's what we're all here for. To ask questions and get the answers that we're seeking!! If it's dealing with the Harry Potter world, you're in the right forum!

great! well no i know alot bout potter i just didnt know what it meent! i put OoP not TOOTP

It's okay... I think that I've seen it three different ways!!!

three? whats the other one? HPatOoP or something like that?

Well, if Neville's granny is Mrs. Longbottom, then she is Frank's mother. Isn't it obvious? Why would Neville had his mother's last name?

Maja, you are so right .. and then .. i just looked in the book:

on page 514 it says:

"Well, you've got a funny way of showing it!" said Mrs. Longbottom. "My son and his wife," she said, turning, haughtily to Harry, Ron, Hermione, and Ginny, "were tortured into insanity by You-Know-Who's followers." ..

ineli

Aren't we all a little on the "slow" side of things!!!!