America's Best and What They Do.

Post-9/11 Era Forum

Outside the small town of Best, Holland, September 22, 1944:

Another grenade landed in the main trench next to where Private Joe Mann sat with bandaged arms. His comrades, who were fighting for their lives, didn't notice it. Mann, whose arms were still bound tightly to his chest [from multiple gunshot wounds he had suffered to both his arms], yelled "Grenade!" to warn his buddies, then turned and lay with his back on the grenade. It went off and some of the fragments pierced Mann's body and wounded Privates Paxton, Wienz, and Atayade.

Lt. Wierzbowski crawled over to Mann's side.

"My back's gone," Mann told the lieutenant, then died.

...

Private Joe Mann was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor for sacrificing himself to save his buddies.

There are several monuments in Holland today honoring Private Mann. Everyday for the past fifty-nine years the grateful Dutch people and their children and grandchildren have placed fresh flowers at the bases of those monuments.

One of the monuments has a photo of him embedded in glass set in the stone. A pelican with its wings outstretched and its beak piercing its own breast stands atop the monument. There is an old Dutch fable that says, "If a pelican goes in search of food and cannot find any for its young, it will return to them, thrust its beak into its own flesh, let it fill with blood, and feed its young."

So it is for the Dutch, Joe Mann gave his blood that they might live in freedom.


______
Joe Mann
Private First Class
2d Platoon
H Company
502d Parachute Infanrty Regiment
101st Airborne Division
'The Screaming Eagles'
______


From
DONALD R. BURGETT
The Road to Arnhem


REMEBER, JUST A THANK YOU WILL DO.

What is this crap, Curly. Why is it relevant?????

I thought this was a debating forum. Sory, I didn't realise it had turned into the pro-war back slapping society. I still don't understand how on earth this is relevant!!

So what are you saying INVAR? That no other soldier from any other country acted heroically in a war? Only American soldiers? That could be regarded as very offensive to the war veterans who spent the whole six years fighting in the trenches of WWII rather than you late comers.
Forget this idea that people are jealous of your country. I'm sure it's a nice place to visit but that's about as far as it goes for me. Give me Canada any day - smarter people, safer lifestyle, and a culture that is not scared to question what its administration claims.

So waht you are saying is that no other country in the world has any of these qualities no other country knows anything about sacrifice and seeing a job through, or any fortitude or sense of duty if thats waht you believe then you two really are stupider than I thought.

You were talking about what Americans do best , what about what they do worst friendly fire or innocent targets like in Gulf war 1 the largest allied loss came when an american tank killer plane hit a UK troop carrier killing 17 soldiers, in the same war the killed numerous Iraqs when they destroyed a bomb shelter, in Afghanastan they killed 8 Canadian soldiers when they dropped a bomb on them evne though they were told there wher coalition sldiers in the area, then the bombed a wedding party killing numerous civilians, and even in Gulf war 2 they shot down two british tornados with patriot missilies what in the hell where they aiming for the Iraqs didnt have any air force.

What Mann did waas brave but recently we havent seen bravery like that just the US army being slack and trigger ahppy

Surely Slow,
Sorry still don't get it. sounds to me like you believe America has the monopoly on bravery. I don't think anything can be farther from the truth. You fight a war with the most sophisticated weapons in the world against countries armed with outdated, unreliable weapons. You can kill people miles waay from you without having to bear witness to the dreadful destruction you have caused. Bravery gave way to technology a long time ago and people like Mann weren't brave because they were American, they were brave cos they fought an enemy that was just as capable of killing them as they were of killing it.

So what are you saying INVAR? That no other soldier from any other country acted heroically in a war?

Please re-read what I wrote. Your comprehension skills are a joke, or is it that everything you read gets put through your Socialist shredder so you can find some other meaning to suit your uselss arguments?

Only American soldiers? That could be regarded as very offensive to the war veterans who spent the whole six years fighting in the trenches of WWII rather than you late comers.

The word ONLY does not appear in in what I posted above. This is again, your own attempt at the Socialist Straw man.

Forget this idea that people are jealous of your country.

I can't..... there are millions lined up to get into my country and millions signed up for citizenship - while all of your postings here drip with jealous resentment and envy.

Give me Canada any day

Where all Socialists, Marxists, Communists and Globalists feel well-at-home.

- smarter people,

If you're so smart - why isn't Canada running the world or dictating economic policy due to personal wealth and prosperity?

safer lifestyle

What all unarmed slaves first state before coming under the GOV boot.

and a culture that is not scared to question what its administration claims.

Like America never questions it's government. Ever here of the Democratic Party? Fellow Liberal Socialists like yourself running in disguise as an 'opposition party' that hate America and her Founding Principles almost as much as you do.

America likes to argue amongst itself , but come a foreigner with a hostile opinion or act, you will witness a posse of solidarity and vengeance unmatched in the globe.

You were talking about what Americans do best , what about what they do worst friendly fire or innocent targets like in Gulf war 1

Like America is the ONLY nation on earth to ever suffer Freindly-Fire incidents. Such is the nature of war - if you had any knowledge or understanding - which you obviously do not or you wouldn't have made such an asinine statement.

sounds to me like you believe America has the monopoly on bravery

No one here said such a thing, nor even implied it. Once again you have to put your Socialist spin and perceptions on plain words to foster your Hatred and loathing of things American in every post you write.

You fight a war with the most sophisticated weapons in the world against countries armed with outdated, unreliable weapons.

It's called fighting 'smarter', not harder. I laugh at you nimrods that think that the only 'fair fight' is one where if an army is armed with sabers on mounted horseback, the only fair fight is one in which we lower our abilities to fight in the same manner.

You're a buffoon. We fight to win, and we fight by the most advantageous manner available to us. It is why Canada and the rest of the Socialist world has to look up at the United States with either admiration, envy, contempt or jealousy - because they themselves are busy micromanaging 'fairness' - while the real world passes it on by.

Like America is the only natio on earth to suffer friendly fire incidents. Such is the nature of war if you had any knowledge or undestanding whivh you obviously do not or you wouldnt have made such a statement

Invar look at the recent evidence of friendly fire kills again and you will see Gulf war 1 and 2 all friendly fire kills came from american fire, ditto Afghanastan and none in Kosovo when the americans werent in charge of operations.

And what is with this accusing everyone who does not agree with you of being a socialist that has been your answer on every thread one way or the other.

I am reading 'The war we could not stop.' An account by embedded journalists. There was an incident in there where this friendly fire was not a mistake. Some British trops had been shot up by an American plane. It fired once, turned around and fired again. It was about to attack a third time when it peeled off. The British troops interviewed afterwards wre certain that this pilot knew perfectly well that these were British troops because they radioed to the pilot, had clear markings on the vehicle and it was in the bright light of day. Cowboys!

On top of every vehicle the the UK uses there is a union jack flag painted on top it is always painted so that it can be seen from the air and during the war in Iraq the UK and US were on the same radio frequency

Read this, gdog and Surely Slow:
"Two American pilots had turned their guns on a convoy of five British vehicles from the regiment, killing one man...injuring four others, and wiping out two reconnaissance vehicles. Two Iraqi civillians waving a large white flag were also killed. Coloured smoke signs were sent up to indicate that they were friendly troops but it didn't stop the attack. The planes came back a second time, injuring those who had managed to scramble out of their vehicles with only superficial wounds. The gunner, Corporal of Horse Matty Hull, was the victim of a direct hit into his turret. The men in the Scimitars were screaming over the radio to 'stop the friendly fire, we are being engaged by friendly fire' and 'pop smoke, pop smoke'. The forward air controller, the liaison with coalition air forces to bring in fire missions, was shouting 'check fire, check fire'. Frantic calls were made to 16 Air Assault Brigade headquarters to find out what was going on. But no one seemed to know.
The A-10s were about to take a third swing when they were told by the American air patroller working with the Household Cavalry to stop firing. Instead of providing air cover while helicopters came in to evacuate the casualties, they flew away. 'He had absolutely no regard for human life. I believe he was a cowboy,' is how Lance Corporal Steven Gerrard described the pilot...."

Whats wrong Girly Joe the damning evidence hurts face it you guys are without a doubt the most gun happy soldiers walking the face of the earth, first combat rule of marines is always be sure and only fire in defence or you fell your life is in danger maybe the US should try that

Typical crap that would come from anti-US propagandists, yeah you're right we're all cowboys over here, want nothing more than to go in everywhere guns a blazin. You have no idea what the pilots saw, or heard. Any number of things ,could have been happening. If in fact they were knowingly, and intentionally firing on British troops, or even if they were just incompetent, and made a mistake, that in no way reflects on the military as a whole.

Hey I didn't write this stuff, I'm just quoting it. If you think its wrong why not sue the journalist and the soldier who said it. Trouble is it isn't wrong. How you guys don't like it when something like this strikes at your nationalistic underbelly.

I wasnt just talking about what griminick was saying I was talking about a lot more than one conflict I wouldnt judge anyone over one incident I am talking about mistakes in Iraq 1 +2, and in afghanastan on friendly soldiers and innocent civilians thats how I came to this conclusion I mean how can you defend the fact that two RAF pilots were shot down by patriot misslies what was the US aiming at Iraq had no airforce

What is it we envy Americaah. What do I envy? And don't give me freedom of speech and that crap cos I already have that. I want to know why what I write apparently comes out of envy for the US.

Id like an answer to that as well

And ?

Yeah I nkow and credit where its due I think at one point I have read Seven roads to hell and if thats waht I read it is very good but WW2 is the most written about subject and there are a lot of amazing titles out there you just picked three. But Americaaah I hate to sound like a librarian but if you like boks about war and that get Bravo Two Zero its a true story about the SAS who got captured during the first Gulf war and it is fantastic

You wouldn't have to sue, the US army could if it felt it was untrue. The name of the journo is in there but I can't be bothered to go look it up again. Just cos I gave his name still won't make you believe it. But it isn't untrue!

I think a soldier deliberately shooting allies for a spot of sport is a pretty damned serious allegation and not one the army would have hanging around if it weren't true. I can't imagine them sitting back on this one.

Hey gdog, what d'ya think about the Jessica Lynch story - hurt in a truck accident, not ambushed by Iraqis. Iraqi doctors save her life then a mock up 'rescue' is played out by US army for cameras. gwb always said this would be a war of propoganda and psychology- bet you never guessed the propaganda will be used on you by your own government.

It was one of the funniest things I have heard the official line girl soldier trapped all her comrades are dead and she fights to the lat bullet despite suffering a stab wound and bullet wound.
Official line typical women crashes her car and is saved by the enemy.
But the part fo this story that worries me was that the attitude of the US army they went in all guns blazing and kicking in doors when all they had to do was knock on the door and ask for her.
What with the Lynch story comming out and Bush admiting the truth about nuclear weapons and Tony admitting we wont find any WMDs it has been a bad week for thr pro war lobby.
Unless my theory gets proved soon

lodge bo - check out PM!

Just did

This was US propoganda, Americaah. It might be trivial in relation to the whole horror of the war but its use in promoting the US image is significant. Cast your mind back to the patriotic fervour of this forum when the actual "rescue" was supposed to take place. How you admired the great troops who risked theoir lives to free this woman, viciously injured in an Iraqi ambush. Now think of it again in the light of the real facts. See how effective propoganda is. And if govt. can lie about this then what other images have been fabricated since March.

This was propaganda. gwb said this would be a war of propoganda and psychology. What he didn't tell you was that the propaganda and psyvhology was going to be used on you. Don't you even ponder what other fibs have been told in the name of patriotism. Aern't you even the slightest bit curious as to how much of this war reporting was factual?

Ok Americah I am not anti american not in the least I have friends in Atlanta and in Boston I ve been to America a few trimes and ive got friends here in Edinburgh who are American.
But the points I made are all true not a lie in thier double check, what we were told initally was propaganda that the Nazis would have been proud of, the big woory here apart from the lies is that after Bush and Blair found about the nuclear material thing they still used it.

Ya see Girly Joe I do have a life I also have the sense to use real facts about what I wrote face it ya big jessie I wrote the truth and it hurts you that there is no way around the imcopotence Bush and Blair have finnaly come out Blair will probably pay for it but not bush due to the fact that you trigger happy yanks bury the truth so you dont lose face.

Just like I said the truth really hurts so you are stepping round the facts.

I will agree with you on one thing living well is the best revenge and for me revenge is sooo sweet

Curley,
It's a trap. You could give lodgeboy a great big wet one and he would still slap you face after.

Intresting point USA but is it really a trap and if it is how can you be so sure your not going to be the next one to fall in to it?

I know a woman who is like this. If I say, "It's a nice day!". She will say, "No it's not!". If I say, "The sky is a nice shade of blue today!" She will say, " It's too dark or too light or.."
Get it? You'll never be right, no matter what!

Actually Im right most of the time.
and whats with all the neagtivity toward me you should just calm down

lodgebo,
Look in the mirror to see negativity. It's there, looking back at you.

Hi I aint negative at all Im pretty laid back

Just curious.....Whats a "hypo" supposed to be?

It means like getting all worked up and upset if you have ever seen a hyperactive child in a bad mood thats what I mean.
Maybe you dont use the phrase that much in th states

The average age of the U.S. Infantryman is 19 years.
He is a short haired, tight-muscled kid who, under normal circumstances is considered
by society as half man, half boy.
Not yet dry behind the ears, not old enough to buy a beer, but old enough to die for his country.
He never really cared much for work and he would rather wax his own car than
wash his father's; but he has never collected unemployment either.
He's a recent High School graduate; he was probably an average student, pursued
some form of sport activities, drives a ten year old jalopy, and has a steady
girlfriend that either broke up with him when he left, or swears to be waiting
when he returns from half a world away.
He listens to rock and roll or hip-hop or rap or jazz or swing and 155mm
Howitzers.
He is 10 or 15 pounds lighter now than when he was at home because he is working
or fighting from before dawn to well after dusk. He has trouble spelling, thus
letter writing is a pain for him, but he can field strip a rifle in 30 seconds
and reassemble it in less time in the dark.
He can recite to you the nomenclature of a machine gun or grenade launcher and
use either one effectively if he must.
He digs foxholes and latrines and can apply first aid like a professional.
He can march until he is told to stop or stop until he is told to march.
He obeys orders instantly and without hesitation, but he is not without spirit
or individual dignity.
He is self-sufficient.
He has two sets of fatigues: he washes one and wears the other.
He keeps his canteens full and his feet dry.
He sometimes forgets to brush his teeth, but never to clean his rifle.
He can cook his own meals, mend his own clothes, and fix his own hurts.
If you're thirsty, he'll share his water with you; if you are hungry, his food.
He'll even split his ammunition with you in the midst of battle when you run
low.
He has learned to use his hands like weapons and weapons like they were his
hands.
He can save your life - or take it, because that is his job.
He will often do twice the work of a civilian, draw half the pay and still find
ironic humor in it all.
He has seen more suffering and death then he should have in his short lifetime.
He has stood atop mountains of dead bodies, and helped to create them.
He has wept in public and in private, for friends who have fallen in combat and
is unashamed.
He feels every note of the National Anthem vibrate through his body while at
rigid attention, while tempering the burning desire to 'square-away' those
around him who haven't bothered to stand, remove their hat, or even stop
talking. In an odd twist, day in and day out, far from home, he defends their
right to be disrespectful. Just as did his Father, Grandfather, and
Great-grandfather, he is paying the price for our freedom.
Beardless or not, he is not a boy.
He is the American Fighting Man that has kept this country free for over 200
years.
He has asked nothing in return, except our friendship and understanding.
Remember him, always, for he has earned our respect and admiration with his
blood.

______

"All in all, a great day if you believe stopping the proliferation of chemical, biological and nuclear weapons is a good thing. But, it was a very bad day indeed if world security takes a back seat to your personal hatred of George W. Bush."


We will always remember.
We will always be proud.
We will always be prepared
So that we may always be free!

http://www.ddaymuseum.org/about_us/