Thoughts on Book 5????

Book 5: HP & the Order of the Phoenix Forum

****THIS HAS A LOT OF SPOILERS - DON'T READ IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW****


I was really happy to get the latest HP book this weekend. I, like thousands around the world, were waiting with baited breath to get this book. I read it through the weekend, and I was not at all let down by this book. Though it was a lot darker than the previous 4 books... and we knew that was bound to happen with Voldermort being back in the flesh. I liked that we saw how all this pressure, of everything, is getting to Harry and that he isn't just able to deal with it. He's blowing up in anger and rage, and having to learn that there are consequences to actions. Ron and Hermione are such wonderful friends, and there are so many more that come to the plate to bat for Harry throughout this book. And teaching a Defense Against the Dark Arts class to all these other students shows some promise toward his future. I think that he would make a wonderful teacher... and I also think that he would make a great Auror. And when McGonagall said that she would do everything in her power to make sure that if that's the road he wants to take, than she will help him... wow. That just blew me away. He has so much support. I'm really interested in seeing what happens in the 6th book between Harry and Draco. He definitely is upset over his father being arrested, and named as a Death Eater. I love "seeing" the scenes between Ron and Hermione. They fight like a married couple. I know that there are a lot of people out there that want Harry with her... but I really don't think that JKR is going to take that route. I was practically devastated when Hermione was unconscious near the end. I was praying that she was not the "main character" that JKR told us would be killed off. Though, I did NOT expect that it would be Sirius either. I'm saddened for Harry, because Sirius was a father to him... and a place for him to go and have that home that he's always wanted. So, it's back with the Dursleys, and another awful summer. Hopefully the Weasley's and Hermione will rescue him early on.

Well... what are your thoughts on the book?

well sirius was my favorite character and i knew about the 'main character who is killed' there were three main times where i thought sumone was gonna die, mr. weasley, hermione, and harry's "vision" of sirius.... i liked the book but i was soo sad when i found out that sirius was killed ;_; i wonder if harry has a god mother.... i mean sirius was his god father...hmmm... the book was a lot darker and i really hated umbridge and i got so mad when harry found the mirror sirius gave him at the end of the book -_-... why didnt he use that to contact him instead of going to umbridges office and using floo powder!!!!!!!!! well... im done ranting... :: sob sob :: poor sirius....

i finished the book and i was sad, and then as more time passed between my finishing the book and my thinking about it i got so depressed. if anyone wants to talk to me about the book i need a buddy to discuss with. u can im me @ xthrubeinkoolx...
so depressing

i wouldnt mind talkin to ya my s/n is independentcraze

why did snuffles have to die? why? WHY?!

im sure that when jkr killed him off she had an idea of how the readers would react, so taking that in mind, im sure that she had a good reason for it...

Hey! i just thought of sumting. Maybe in the other books harry gets REALLY depressed. He would let voldemort kill him so that he can be with siriut. The phrophecy Did say that 1 cannot live without the other alive. So harry cannot live while HIMSELF is alive or sumtin like that. So making sirius die maybe can cause harry to act as if his life is over.

I hope Harry starts treating Malfoy like James treated Snape. Malfoy really deserves it.

can somebody explain to me why Harry stated in Chapter 37 that he would never forgive snape no matter what dumbledor said? Didn't snape alert the others to Harry's last vision? I just can't understand.

OMG!!!!!!!!! MY SIRIUS DIED!!!!!!!! *cries forever*

why are u guys all up and tight about sirius? i dont think he was too great of a character. Yeah he loved Harry, wanted to be with him, and always supported him like a father...but why would HE be the fav character?

Book 5 was great. In my opinion, quite possibly the best one out of the others. Not only has Harry grown up, the writting has also matured and matches his age.

I was shocked to see that Sirius was the one that died. For months people have been speculating it would be Hagrid, Dumbeldore or even Ron. It was pretty sad.

Overall I gave it a perfect 10....the story grips you from the very beginning and never lets go

well said mrhsia. I thnk the best quality about JKR's HP books is that there is never down time or shall i say...never ending excitement and events. There is always something happening in the book and never a dull moment and she has once again illustrated this in her 5th book.

Its almost hard to imagine how JKR is going to top Order of the Phoenix.

I mean, she pretty much explained everything in this book. Harry will never be the same again now that he knows the reason why he has to stay with the Dursleys. Plus how sad is it to know that you will ultimately have to die or kill someone.

Unfortunately for the very young fans of this book, the next 2 books will only be darker and more violent. I'm going to read the book again, but I can't wait until book 6 comes out.

Hopefully we won't have to wait years and years

eh i wouldn't have a problem taking someone's life such as voldemort...besides isnt that what everyone wants? voldemorts ultimate death?

i just finished reading it last night, and i'm heart broken. if only harry had used the 2-way mirror!!! but in a way, it makes sense that sirius is gone. it makes things worse for harry, gives him more to overcome. i think it'll give harry more fuel, more reason for defeating voldemort.
but anyway.....is it just me or has ginny gotten 10x cooler? i hope something happens between her and harry; cho chang is a stupid b!tch.

Can anyone explain why we didn't find out the results of the OWLs? I don't put too much stock in how I THINK I did on an exam, so I guess I don't trust HP to know how he did, or can I???

Sad that Padfoot died, but there are others I would miss at least as much!

well they did mention that OWL results come in a letter over the summer. Catching on to the last 5 books...i believe they start out with harry's summer so thats why the OWL results did not come up in this book....they shall come in the beginning of 6....ahh increased anticipation....one could die

There's just one thing I don't understand. That prophecy went something like "either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives". So what about now: both of them alive, living?

Even though Harry's "famous" for being "the boy who lived", I'm sure he would give it up in a minute to be just a normal boy (as normal as a wizard can be or course).

Just as KJ pointed out, Harry's current life has no "quality" to it. In fact, if you look at it, he's had to suffer more pain than anyone can ever imagine. From losing his parents, losing his godfather, having people stare at him as if he was a circus side-show, the threat of death constantly, and worst of all the threat of death to his friends.

What the entire Harry Potter books teach young kids is that we as individuals will always have to face struggles in our lives (although Harry's life is just very exaggerated) and we all must be brave and face our problems in order to overcome them.

1st) I think that the way she treated Sirrius in the last book was kind of rotten, he nothing to do really to the story at all, so if she was going to kill off a character I guess Sirrius was the one to kill off. I do hope though she brings him back somehow but only if he is going to be vindicated and found innocent of the charges he was accused of, it makes no sense to bring him back if it's only to hide all the time again.

2nd) I figured out early in the book that Kreacher, having a picture of the evil woman in his cave, was giving away secrets since dumbledore said that all people in pictures could travel from any of the pics to any other ones, so I figured she was speaking to the elf.

3rd) D'Dore said that only the person that the prophecy was about could touch the ball without going insane but if you notice or reread the battle scenes, harry through the ball to Neville and Neville carried the ball for some time so that means that BOTH harry and Neville are art of the prophecy, doesnt it? I notice no one talking about that little bit.

4th) I think Ginny will be a better partner for Harry than Cho although it looks like Luna is shaping up for a go at Harry also.

Harry finally cries, omg. poor thing i can barely take it.

I remember when the book described Keacher's dwelling, there was pics in the cave and the closest to his bed was the evil woman's pic and right then I knew that the potential for her talking to him existed, all she needed was a pic of herself where she was and the figures inside the pic copuld travel and kreacher hated the order so he would gladly do it

wait....about chosenone's 3rd observation...yes indeed i found it to be an excellent observation however...i do not recall completely but to my knowledge...it was not who touched the prophecy but whoever 'removed' the prophecy. Afterall Voldemort did send his death eaters to take the prophecy from Harry. Just a thought.
oh and 1 more thing...since theoretically Voldemort could have taken the prophecy himself...why didnt he? afterall he did show up. I mean all that anxiety and impatience not to mention effort it took to get harry to take it from him then he shows up anyhow....what??? am i missing something or wouldnt voldemort been far better off just sneaking in and grabbing it himself....besides noone at the ministry of magic could compare with voldemort's powers if he were caught which is also extremely unlikely
well that was too wordy but oh well

yeah but im just saying...if it was so risky that he did not want to show up...why did he in the end? it just seems like if in fact it was so pertinent that he have the prophecy..it would have been much wiser that he go and take it himself. I say this because if his death eaters were caught it would be known that voldemort has returned anyhow. I mean a bunch of former death eaters after a prophecy about the dark lord and potter....pretty obvious.

Voldemort didn't show up until his death eaters had failed. At that point he had to take matters into his own hands. He failed though because Harry has too much love in his veins. I think Voldemort than fled because he was too afraid of Dumbledore and Harry together.

omg sirius black was my favorite character i dont think he shoulg of died and i think it would be awesome if she brought him back but im living in my own fantasy world my favorite characters always die

Actually, I believe it was "Only the people to whom they refer can lift them from the shelves without sufferring madness". Key here is CAN LIFT THEM FROM THE SHELVES without.......
It would appear that if your name is not referred, you may be able to hold it if someone whose name is referred takes it off the shelf for you.

I think karenwoods is right. Plus, I don't remember Neville holding the prophecy for that long anyway. Harry had it most of the time and only threw it to Neville out of desperation because a bunch of deatheaters were bearing down on him. Neville barely caught the prophecy before dropping it and kicking it to the floor where it broke (atleast thats how i remembered it....gotta read the book again).

As for Voldemort going into the Ministry to get the prophecy himself, I think that he still wanted to keep the element of surprise about his return. If I was the dark lord, i would have no problems sending in the death eaters because even if they were caught, the Ministry would still try and put the blame on Sirius. As you all remember, up until the very end, the Ministry and most of the public still believed that the death eaters escaped in order to join Sirius. The Ministry refuses to believe that Voldemort has returned and would find any excuse to put the blame somewhere else.

Voldemort was smart to stay hidden until he had the prophecy in his hand and returned to full strength before making his appearance. Unfortunately for him, the death eaters failed and he was forced to make an early appearance

I also think that an important part of Voldemort wanting Harry to go in to the Ministry of Magic and remove the prophecy is so that he could have Harry killed off. It probably was possible for Voldemort to get the prophecy by himself, but he knew that if Harry went to get it, he and his Dath Eaters would have an easy shot at Harry.

I agree with many others that Voldemort should have just gotten the Prophecy himself.

The Death Eaters had obviously saw to it that NO ONE was in the Ministry of Magic the night Harry Potter arrived. There were no security guards, no one working in the Ministry of Mysteries. No one noticed Harry and his friends walking around the building, so why would anyone notice Voldemort?

Also, when Harry is dueling Bellatrix alone, Voldemort just shows up in the room. In order to get there so quickly, he had to use magic, as I don't think he was simply waiting outside the Ministry for the Death Eaters to retrieve his prophecy. This can only mean either he used a Portkey to get there, or Apparated. The best bet is that he Apparated, since when he fled with Bellatrx, he Disapparated...

Now, if he was able to Apparate right into the Ministry of Magic, why didnt he simply Apparate right in front of the Prophecy, grab it, and leave? He knew exactly where the Prophecy was, and there would have been no way for anyone to notice him.

I really saw no point in sending in his useless Death Eaters, maybe someone can clear this up for me...

There is probably somekind of secret force in that section of the ministry. Or he might of thought there would of been atleast 1 person in the minisrty. So he sent his death eaters just in case he might be seen of killed.

Voldemort didn't want to make an appearance, unless absolutely necessary. He was building up his army, while enjoying the blame being put on Sirius. He had no reason to show himself. And, for all he knew, there were wizards, or wards that we're placed, to guard that room.
He chose to send in his death eaters, knowing that if they were caught, Sirius would, once again, take the blame. I don't think that he was counting on all of Harry's friends going to the ministry with him.

Wouldn't you expect that the Ministry of Magic, of all places, would have a charm in place preventing people from apparating in and out as they please. Hogwarts has such a charm and I'm sure the Ministry of Magic is a much more important place.

You would think that people shouldnt be able to Apparate into the Ministry, just like Hogwarts, but Voldemort has to get there somehow, and besides, he Disapparated to flee with Bellatrix.

Now, I understand that Voldemort didnt want to show himself, but the Prophecy had obviously been VERY important to him. So how hard would it have been to send in his Death Eaters first, see if the coast is clear, then go in himself to get the Prophecy? No one seemed to notice that he was in the Ministry until he started talking...

Has anybody else noticed the following "plot discontinuity" (or did I miss something)?

When Prof. Umbridge discovers Harry and Hermione sneaking in her office, she takes their wands away. A few minutes later, Hermione and Harry are leading her to the forest, and they ask her in vain to hand the wands back. During the ensuing encounter and fight with the centaurs, I don't believe that the children's wands are mentioned at all: only Umbridge's (which is crushed under a centaur's hoof). Unless I missed something, I have to deduce that H and H make their way to London wandless... Yet the wands are about to play a major role in the fight soon-to-follow...

???

Umbridge was not the one who took their wands, it was the "squad" that was helping her, Malfoy, Crabbe, Golye, etc. They took their wands, and when Harry, Hermione, and Umbride left, Ron, Ginny, and Luna fought against the "squad" that was holding them, and took back Harry and Hermiones wands. If u read the part when Harry and Hermione come out of the forest and meet Ron, it says he hands Harry his wand back...

Harry might end up with Luna... I think she's got an important role in this book, and it will become bigger in the others. so what if she's **weirdo** she's cool

I agree with you, Maja. Just because someone is freaky, doesn't make them bad. When you just take someone else's word, or judge a book ONLY by its cover, you will never know the truth. I think that there just might be more to this Luna Lovegood than we know. Time will tell though. It makes you wonder, she did show up at times when Harry was really questioning if he heard or saw something, and she was there to justify it for him. They have a serious commonground together in that.

About Luna...

It's funny. During the last section of the book, I was expecting Luna to turn out to be Tronks (as undercover agent, playing the loony student)!

I want to know what happened to Umbridge. She got carried off, was she killed? And she seems a lot more evil than any of the other dumb Ministry officials. She sent the dementors after him, the whole detention thing... do you think she has a Voldemort tie, or is, like Sirius said, the world not solely divided into good people and Death Eaters?

I don't remember the book mentioning exactly what happened to Umbridge after she was carried away by the centaurs but I'm sure it was very traumatic.

After the big battle at the Ministry, Dumbledore went into the forest and rescued her. When Harry woke up in the hospital wing at Hogwarts, Umbridge was there also and very freaked out.

I don't think Umbridge is a death eater or working for Voldemort. I just think she's very loyal to the Ministry and Fudge. As second in command after Fudge, she just wanted to make sure that Harry was shown as a crackpot like Dumbledore because they believe that Voldemort has returned.

It was too long. JKR is a great writer, but could have made her points w/about 200 pages lopped off.

Do NOT like that Sirius died.

Should have been Hagrid or one of the Weasley's.

Really love the series, but think she should be able to wrap it up in one more book. Not two.

yeah, mrhsia22 is right. in the last chapter ("The Second War Begins") when Harry is visiting Ginny, Ron, Hermione and Neville in the hospital wing, they see Umbridge lying there in a bed. Dumbledore rescued her from the forest (it isn't said exactly how). She's supposedly "in shock". but when Ron makes noises like a horse's (or centaur's) hooves, she wakes up very scared.

i think Umbridge takes her loyalty to fudge too far. like, when fudge talks about shutting harry up, she interprets this to mean she must send dementers after harry. she's not a death eater, but she's definetly malicious.

I'm still not convinced that Umbridge is just following whatever she thinks that Fudge wants, or if she's somehow in cohoots with Voldemort. I guess that, for me, the jury is still out, with a verdict to be determined. I just hope that her being in the hospital there isn't the last that we hear of her. Even though she's sooooooooooo extremely easy to hate, she brings so much quality to the story.

i know near the end of the book Umbridge left Hogwarts (to the delight of everyone...peeves..mcgonagall)

i really don't think we'll see Umbridge anymore in next few books

I'm with you, cfletcher. She definately has a purpose, personal vendetta's to see the score "evened" in her eyes. I can't see her not being brought back up in the last two remaining books. I mean, maybe just in one of them she will make an appearance, but there's got to be more than her just being in the hospital.

Here's a thought, what about RON and Luna? I think someone will have to spark some jealousy in Hermione before she'd reveal her feelings we all know are there.

the Ron and Luna theory is interesting. i was just re-reading books 4 and 5, and you can definetly tell that Ron feels something for Hermione, but you can't tell what she thinks of him. Luna and Ron would definetly make Hermione jealous, especially since Hermione thinks so little of Luna.

I wonder if the end of Chamber is a bit of a hint about the relationship between Ron and Hermione.

I might have to go back and check the book to make sure, but when Hermione was de-petrified, she ran into the great hall and gave Harry a big hug. Then as she turned to Ron to give him a hug, there was a tense moment of hesitancy between the two of them as if they didn't know whether or not they should hug. (I know for sure they showed that in the movie).

Anyways, it seemed that both of them wanted to hug each other but hesitated thinking, perhaps, not wanting to let other people know how they feel about each other. I think JKR trys to drop suttle hints about how Hermione feels about Ron. Ron's feeling, on the other hand, are quite obvious.

Sorry about the rant....kinda got lost for a bit...hope everyone understands what the hell I just wrote....hahaha

No, I agree with you. It seemed like that was the first time that you are aware that there's an attraction between Ron and Hermione. And it just keeps building.

Since we're on the subject of romance, I have a question to throw out into cyberspace. Why does it seem that Hogwarts professors aren't married? Can celibacy be required for a teaching posistion?

That's a good question.

I think that JKR wanted to put the focus on the students of Hogwarts. Because the book was originally geared towards children, the fact that whether or not the professors are married is kinda irrelevant to the story.

I mean, would we really care if Professor McGonagall tells the students that she will be going to Switzerland with her husband during Christmas break.

I have one question about the books and movies. In this fifth book, when Hermione tries to convince Harry to teach them DA, she manages to say "Voldemort" (and JK points that out) for the very first time. However, in the first movie, when the three of them are talking near the fireplace, Hermione clearly says Voldemort a couple of times. Isn't it strange that Rowling didn't point that out during the making of the movie. The fact that that people do not say his name is very important to the story, isn't it??

I agree... it's not something that they have ever said. These kids have been raised, their entire lives, fearing "He who must not be named" and haven't ever said his name. The fact that they are starting to say it is like showing that they are losing some fear of him and willing to fight back.

I think the movie makers didn't feel it was that big of a deal. Even though to us Potter-heads, it is a very major part of the movie.

I just saw the 1st movie again last night and other than the wand salesman saying "he-who-must-not-be-named" and harry uttering "you-know-who" in the tavern with hagrid, voldemorts name was mentioned everytime.

I thought that was a major flaw in the movie

I agree with you.... I think that it was a major mistake.
Harry is the only one that ever really says his name, and people freak at him when he does.

hey, I am new here .. hello

To be honest, I wasn't too impressed by the fifth book. First of all, I am kinda taken aback by Harry's moods. I know, I was a brat at 15, but he goes way too far, especially against Dumbledore.

This adds to the feeling that the book was altogether too dark - nothing really worked out, not the relationship with Cho, not the DATDA lessons (being interrupted), not school (with that Umbridge ***** and her rules), not quidditch (being banned), with Sirius being killed, facing another summer at the Dursleys, with that aweful prophecy and a Dumbledore getting old and weary, and so on ..

Talking about that Umbridge lady, I really really started to hate her when she hurt Harry in those detensions - and I am disappointed, he didn't report on it. It also suprised me that she is that vicious. She goes so much farther than Fudge himself, and I am sure this is not the end. Till now, she only reacted to what Harry and Dumbledore represent (telling about Voldemort's return), but being personally offended and attacked, she will be much worse.

Then the story with Ron and Hermione, my hope was, that there would be a little more going on between them, JKR build that story up since the second book and I'm starting to get impatient here .. again, when I was 15 ....

There are a couple more things I would also like to mention:

First of all, I had the impression, that JKR tried to squeeze way too many characters and things into the book and didn't take the time to explain them better, for example the brains in the tank - what are they doing there, who do they belong to, what do they try to do when they grab you? How did the egg get into that glas bowl thing and why is it getting younger and older over and over again? I had the feeling, that the guy being killed by the plant in the hospital wasn't necessary for the for the story at all - Harry and his friends keep on assuming all kinds of things but you never find out, what really happened .. and of course the veil - what's that all about, why is it standing in the middle of some theater at the ministry of magic?

Then, weren't the twins sooo cool? And the reaction of the teachers? I love the idea that they opened up that shop and that they are making money already, I just kinda missed Mrs. Weasley's reaction.

About the big fight in the end - from the moment, Harry and his friends set foot in the ministry, it gets really confusing. I lost track of the whereabouts of the people, of who is fighting who, of who has the prophecy and who is injured ... but maybe that is due to the fact that English is not my native tongue, I need to reread the book soon.

You haven't mentioned Hagrid's halfbrother at all, I do not like the idea of a giant living in the forbidden forest, and as much as I love Hagrid, he does have an unhealthy appreciation for magical creatures and such.

Talking about celibacy among teachers, don't you share my hopes that professor McGonagall and professor Dumbledore kinda get together? I really hope, Minerva recovers from that attack as soon as possible, she is one of my favorite characters and I would have loved to have a teacher like her. She gets even better by promising to help Harry with his career.

I also like Ginny a lot, she really is ten times cooler and I would like to have her get involved with Harry better than Luna (who is fun, but not a satisfying match for him). Or maybe Ginny gets together with Neville, I would like that as well - he is such a nice boy.

Last but not least I have to point out, that Hermione and Ron are the very best friends that Harry could ever find. Hermione is sooo intelligent (thinking about "using" Rita for their means) and Ron is so reliable. They are both great.


Altogether I still need to say that I didn't like the fifth book as much as the third or forth. I was actually able to put it down for a couple of days without longing read the end. I found it too confusing and too dark. And the prophecy didn't really tear it out either. But I will reread it soon and hopefully I like it better then.

Nice "talking" to you,
ineli

WOW!!!!

First of all, welcome....you really said a mouth-full....are you sure you're a rookie?

I think you made some really good points about the 5th book. I too was a bit confused about things in the ministry such as the brains and the veil.

I found the 5th book to be pretty exciting and suspenseful (although I agree that JKR really stuffed the book with a lot of characters and changing scenes). I think this book is a lot more mature and geared towards a little more older reader base. I read somewhere (probably in this thread) that the next two books will also be more mature.

The Umbridge character was great, even though everyone hated her for being so evil. I'm sure that JKR could have elaborated more on some of the other characters and situations, but maybe she has her reasons for being vague.

Anyways, welcome to our Harry Potter family...hope to see your name throughout this forum.

Yes this book did seem to leave a lot of loose ends and "plot-deficiencies" (like finding the mirror too late) but I wasn't altogether disappointed with that. JKR seems to be writing a bit more true to life, although still following the pattern of introducing the problem during the summer, finding out bits and pieces during the school year, a climactic fight scene (always conveniently after the exams), Dumbledore explains everything, and he goes back the the Dursleys. However, life isn't like that, and you aren't always happy with all the information you've received by the end of each June. Besides, we're getting this story from Harry's perspective, and he was too overcome with grief to be worried about strange brains or hatching eggs. And, that gives us material to speculate on to tide us over until the next book.

I'm now in my third reading of the book, and I promise it gets better. Honestly, I didn't like any of the books per se the first time I read them. (I only started the first book to escape from a wretched summer school math class) It took a good two years of thumbing through them from time to time to fully appreciate JRK's excellent writing.

And about Dumbledore and McGonnagal, I've wondered that a bit myself. They seem to be rather close, but that may just because of their association through school and the Order. The only time I've wondered that forcibly was in the second movie when they bring Colin into the hospital wing, and Dumbledore addresses McGonnagal, "It is as we feared Minerva..." But there is also a large difference in their ages. JKR said in a Scholastic interview "Dumbledore is a hundred and fifty, and Professor McGonagall is a sprightly seventy. Wizards have a much longer life expectancy than Muggles." (see http://www.scholastic.com/harrypott...transcript2.htm Off subject, but also in that interview she says that if she were an animagus she'd want to be an otter. Remember the form Hermione's Patronus took?)

I really think that I need to go back and reread this book a third time, and see what little odds and ends I can pick up. I need to do some major dissecting and see what things I'm really not catching on to.

Cantivmus, you are right that the books are from Harry's perspective, and that's why not everything seems too be explained.

I can not see Dumbledore and Minerva together. Though they seem closer than a lot of the other professors... I think that it's because they both seem to have quite a love for Harry and for Gryffindor in general. They both seem to have similiar ideas about how magic should be used... they have similiar characteristics. That's what makes them so close.... but definately not relationship material.

I just got chills thinking about it....

I don't think the possible love connection between Dumbledore and McGonnagal is anything that the readers or JKR had invisioned when the book was written.

I mean, I don't want to see on page 1096 of Book 6:

McGonnagal: "Oh Albus, hold me I'm so frightened and I can't
stop shaking."
Dumbledore: "Don't worry Minerva my love, I have you and I am
never going to let go."
McGonnagal: "I really thought this time Vol-, I mean You-Know-
Who was going to kill you. A flash appeared before
my eyes and I thought I would have to live the
rest of my 75 years without you."
Dumbledore: "Silly girl. You know that you me more to me than
anything else in this world. I could never leave you
alone. I still have so much that I want to share
with you."
McGonnagal: "Oh Albus, do you really mean it?"
Dumbledore: "Yes Minerva, I love you with every fiber of my
being."
McGonnagal: "Oh Albus, I love you too"
** KISS, KISS, HUG, HUG***

*GROAN* Oh please... I think that I just got sick.
I might need to head home from the office.
That is something that I NEVER want to see in the HP books.

I stand corrected. Yuk.

LOL .. that's silly

but then, JKR didn't even write down, how Harry and Cho were kissing - there is no sex at all in those books, way too obscene

I know that all those books were written from Harry's point of view, but still - his friend Ron got attacked by a brain and almost lost this fight, wouldn't you (or at least Ron) like to know why and how ..

Since I am concerned about those kind of things, maybe I wasn't as surprised and sad about Sirius' death as Harry - surely it should drive everything else out of your mind ..

anyway, maybe I'll find out in a later book, or you come up with some good ideas

...................................................

but talking about something else: I don't hate Snape as much as Harry does, in fact, I don't hate him at all - maybe this is due to the actor who plays this character in the movies

and then, learning about what James did to him in school makes him even more likable ..

he is also quite brave, spying for the Order without getting caught - and of course he needs to keep up his behaviour toward Harry, so noone gets suspicious ..

is it just me, or are there other people out there who like him (kinda) .. ?

ineli

I guess I never saw things from Snape's point of view. I think you're right Ineli in that Snape had every reason to hate James and his friends because they picked on him during their school days.

And years later, here comes Harry Potter with his band of friends acting the same way (except Harry doesn't really pick on anyone). Maybe Snape feels that a lot of people know about the connection between himself/James and Harry so he purposely treats Harry bad to maintain his reputation.

I liken it to a student whose teacher is also his mother. The teacher/mother will treat their child more strict so that other students won't talk about preferential treatment

I apologize, I think I was beginning to rant....

i also sympathizied with snape in this book. i mean, he is unfair to harry and his friends (like how he tries his best to flunk harry, and that time when malfoy makes hermione's teeth bigger and snape says "i don't see any difference") but james and his friends did make snape's life hell. if i had the chance to get revenge on my arch nemisis by treating her daughter the way she treated me, i'd take it. i think i felt worst for snape when harry accidentally broke into snape's mind and saw memories from snape's childhood - his parents fighting, the girl's laughing at him - poor snape!

and snape isn't completely cold-hearted. remember how in bk 1 snape saved harry when harry was on his brookstick and quirrel tried to kill him?

oh yes, it is awful that Snape is treating Harry so bad, even if he has a childhood trauma .. but I am wondering why Dumbledore doesn't see that .. I mean, he usually knows everything that is going on, somehow .. he never put a stop to this injustice.

question is, how much are teachers allowed to be humans? are they at all allowed to let certain feelings (even hate) towards students affect their teaching .. well, it shouldn't be allowed ..

i believe, there must be something really mysterious about Snape .. i would love to know what happened when he changed sides and why Dumbledore trusts him so much ..

oh well .. probably have to wait like 3 more years ..
ineli

People are saying that this book is a much darker installment than any we've yet seen. I agree, it does have its dark moments, but most of them are tame compared to those in book 4. TGOF had such a wonderfully complex and mature plot, which made every tiny detail in the book relevant to the incredible twist at the book's finale. I thought JKR would not be able to beat it, and I still believe that book 4 is superior.
TOOTF isn't without its brilliant moments of course. However, these moments aren't generated by fantastic twists or truly unexpected revelations. An example would be the small look into Snape's traumatic childhood. Another might be Luna's comment on her dead mother whom she believes she will see again -'come on, you heard them, they were just behind the curtain' (or something like that.)
I don't think this little scene would have worked as well if we knew anything more about the mysterious veil. It gives a strange yet warming comfort to Sirius' passing. I think the whole Department of Mysteries scene was wonderfully Alice-In-Wonderlandish. People complain that it wasn't explained well enough -well it wouldn't be the Department of Mysteries if it wasn't mysterious!
Going back to Sirius' death, for some reason, it just didn't strike me with the emotional force that I think was intended. Perhaps it was because Sirius' character was no longer serving the story in the way it did in book 3. Arthur Weasley's death would have been more effective as it would have given us the chance to see Ron truly mature as well as Harry. It would also give him a motive to really hate Voldemort. The whole prophecy plotline was interesting enough, but it didn't live up to the twist that I was expecting.
In the end, I think the book basically collapses under its own weight. Inbalances between story, character introduction, and action, are far more noticeable in a bigger book. I think TGOF was the last installment to have some stability in this area. However, JKR's charm remains in her writing, and even if the story isn't quite as clever this time round, her writing style and imagination are more than enough to keep it in my top 20 list.

*TOOTP -sorry!

Your bring up some very good points Agent Mike, and I almost wouldn't disagree with you.

I think there may be a combination of 2 things at work here:

1. Goblet of Fire was a wonderful book and it brought everything that culminated in the previous 3 books to an almost grand finale. The final maze challenge that Harry had to go through and the portkey taking him to Voldemort was chilling yet exciting. So while I personally liked Prisoner of Azkaban the best as an individual book, I agree that Goblet of Fire gave everything a nice finish.

2. Order of Phoenix was good in the sense that JKR allowed us to see into the past and how different characters became who they were (i.e. Snape's past and the prophecy). The layoff between books 4 and 5 was soo long that we as fans probably set our expectations too high. Don't get me wrong, I loved the 5th book. But perhaps JKR purposely tried to be a little vague in this book. She wanted to give the readers a taste of all the answers, but held just enough back so that we were left wanting more.

Book 5 may be the beginning or prelude for the second half of books. We may have questions about it now, but when book 7 is released, we may all be here applauding how JKR tied everything together.

There's one tiny detail that I didn't quite get in the book. Dumbledore's howler says 'remember the last!' We then later learn of the contents of the letter that was left with Harry. Is the howler telling Aunt Petunia to remember the last letter?

I believe so... because at the end of the book, Dumbledore was telling Harry a lot of things. He said something about the letter that was included with Harry, when left on their doorstep all those years ago. And in it, Dumbledore said that through them, their bloodline, they would help to protect Harry because of Petunia being Lily's sister, and the spell that Lily placed on Harry.

Cheers for that. It was causing me confusion because it could also be a reference to the fact that Petunia is Harry's last , or at least closest, blood relative.

Yes, that's true. I would love to see if there is any family on either side of Harry's parent's that are remaining that we know nothing about. Wouldn't it be strange to find out that he has family, but they thought that he was dead, like his parent's. And that they are relatives on James' side of the family.

It's a nice idea, but if they're on James' side of the family, I doubt they'd think Harry was dead. All wizards with half a mind no about the Boy Who Lived.

I know... but I meant, som