Should Harlemm be penalized for lying?

Fame Forum

I couldn't believe the producers of Fame didn't penalize Harlemm for lying about his age.

I may have just missed something. Did he lie on his application or just to the hosts? Either way, it was still a lie.

American Idol kicked a contestant off the show for lying. Guess Fame isn't looking for honest contestants, just ones that can dance and sing.

First, the person who was eliminated from AI for lying was lying about an arrest record and pending court appearances. This was not only a criminal issue, but could also have affected his ability to live up to his obligations to AI.

The other individual did not lie, but it was decided later on that her past might cause embarrassment/issues for AI and Fox.

With this in mind, it is never good to lie - it does not usually come out good in the end. However, what Harlemm "stretched the truth" about does not affect the show or society in general. As a matter of fact, it's a good commentary on how narrow minded we tend to be about things like age, race and sex. This is a man who wanted his shot, is extremely talented, and was afraid of age bias (being 43, I can relate).

Give the guy a break. I think Fame handled it exactly as they should have.

If the FAME rules implied that he is over-age, then he would and should have been disqualified. BUT - there is no age limit, so it would not be fair to penalize him.

It's understandable why he did. In this industry, he's already a minority and in reality, age would have been an issue. Besides, he would have passed for 23, really :-) How many over-30's did they choose aside from him?

Just look at some of the people who lie about their ages - - - Catherine Zeta Jones, for example.

Either way - the boy is talented!!!

sorry cause this doesn't relate to this topic, but is Garry gay?

No, Harlemm should not be penalized, there was no age limit to begin with, and lying about age is not a big deal at all in the biz.

No, he shouldn't be penalized. Age is irrelevant in my opinion. If you're talented and over their age minimum requirement then that's all that matters.

I totally understand why he didn't reveal his age.

The guy who was kicked out of AI for lying about his age , if im not mistaken, was Justin Wadell. After he was kicked out for taking 2 years off his real age, E.J. Day was recalled. AI had age limit requirement and they upheld it. Trenyce was not booted off despite her shoplifting record because she disclosed it to the producers before she got into the semis. Corey on the other hand never mentioned anything about his case.

No, Harlemm shouldn't be penalized at all! He only lied about his age because he was afraid Fame wouldn't pick him if they knew his real age. Age really doesn't matter, and he really could pass for a 20 year old if he wanted to. There's no age limit for the show, so what's there to punish? It's not like he has a criminal record or did anything really bad.

It seemed to me that Debbie decided to "let America decide."

If the American people feel that Harlemm should be penalized for his lie, then he won't be around this next week. It's very simple, and probably the best way of handling the situation (especially since there was never an upper age limit).

The "biz" is filled with people who lie about their age. What's the difference?

Conor19, you are so right! There's something called agism in the industry (can't be rejected due to age), and since there were no age limits set beforehand, it's not really wrong of him to lie about his age. Someone involved in the business can understand; nothing's EVER "cut and dry."

I think that Harlem should not be penalized. I think that he just followed his heart to get to the place that he is now. Lets not compare Fame to AI because Fame is so much smarter. They are going to make stars from this show. There should be no age when there comes to talent. The contestants aren't continuously put down. The public is not biased because of
Simon's dumb comments. I support Harlem. I hope that he wins the entire competition. He is a great performer. His energy and beautiful voice lights up the stage. Forget honesty, age, gay/straight, or whatever -- He's new!! This is what we need. (Not another Whitney Houston or Britney Spears) Vote for him guys. I think if he puts out an album, we will all be blown away!

Harlemm should definitely NOT be penalized for lying. WHO CAN BLAME HIM? If he does not win this competition for something like that I will say that America is stupid. Harlemm is the best performer i have ever seen. I tried comparing him to everyone else on the show and he has no competition. Harlemm is in a league of his own. GO HARLEMM!!!! i wanna try for the show just so i can have the chance to work with Harlemm...I'm smitten...

I can see, by the responses so far, that people do not rank integrity as a valuable asset to a person's character.

Some of you have replied that since there was no age limit, it doesn't matter if Harlemm lied about his age. I would have to argue that since there was no age limit, why shouldn't he have just told the truth?

You are looking at a person's talent and not their character. As parents, do you want your children growing up to think lying is ok as long as there is a valid reason behind the lie? Wouldn't it be more honorable to acheive a goal through hard work, discipline, and honesty?

If I won a contest based on my talent, but had to lie before I could be accepted, I would not feel honored to win.

In spite of the ill responses I may receive for this post, I will speak from my heart. I value an honest talented person far more than one who lied to get in the contest. Harlemm had nothing to hide at all. He was picked for his talents, not his age.

He should have made it right with all the audiences. What he did was joke it off and put on a pathetic "feel sorry for me because of my age" attitude. He should be penalized, if nothing more than to let the public know that contests require fairness to everyone. What about the other talented people who didn't lie? What message does it send? It's ok to lie and the producers will keep you because you are talented. If I was one of the other contestants, I would be concerned about the integrity and fairness of the contest itself. Heck, why not go all the way and tell American children (you know they are watching the show) that if you have something in your life that may keep you from succeeding, lie about it so you don't get left out.

I don't care how talented you are. If you cheat to succeed, you will reap the results sooner or later.

Sometimes in life, 'little white lies' are required for whatever reason it may be. White lies are designed so that nobody gets hurt and in no way do they have anything to do with integrity. The only person that stood to lose anything if he had not told the white lie, was Harlemm. As we get older, there is an increase in the probability that things will go wrong with our health and Fame could have used that as a consideration in not choosing him for the show. Fame also could have used his age, in that they may have felt, well, he is almost 36 'has he really even done anything serious to achieve his goal?', 'how serious is he even going to be in this competition?'. I think that viewing anything other than his talent would have been a travesty, but I do think that they would have held his age against him. Since there was no age requirement, Fame loses nothing and I feel that Harlemm did nothing wrong.

To consider Harlemm a cheater, there would have had to be an age requirement, which there clearly was not.

All people lie at one time or another and I would like to think that my children have enough good sense to know what constitutes the appropriate times to lie (white lies).

Fame requires hard work and discipline and Harlemm has it and gives it and his performances prove that.

If there had been an age requirement that definately left Harlemm out, I know that he would not have bothered to audition. I really hope that america doesn't hold it against him, because if given the chance, he has the talent, integrity and the backbone to climb all the way to the top and stay there.

Everybody bends the truth in show business...if I was the kind of person who didn't worry about my own closet first, that sure would be alot of people to place no value on.

Thanks for the post; you raise some valid points.

However, are you telling me that you have NEVER, EVER lied about something? Don't you think that maybe you're being a little harsh for lying about age?

I personally do not cross the street if the sign says, "don't walk". I want to teach my children that there are laws and that we can't pick and choose which ones we want to obey. However, when my children ask about someone who is walking against the light, I NEVER become judgmental! I tell my children that we all have choices in this life and what we choose to do have causes and affects. When they're old enough to make these decisions for themselves, I'm hoping that they will remember what I have taught them and not chose a dishonest, dangerous or destructive path.

If you disagree with what Harlemm did and you are concerned about your children being harmed in some way, talk to them about it! Explain to them that it is always better to tell the truth. It's my experience that if you lie, someone always finds out (Harlemm is a great example of this) and although it turned out okay for Harlemm, it might not turn out okay for them.

No penalty from this fan.

I think that he was simply overwhelmed by all the youth around him and since there WAS no age limit he should not be blamed. i am 42 and would have done the same although I have like one zillionth of Harlemm's talent Fame doesn't mind and frankly if they HAD kicked him off they would have lost half of their viewing audience (Note think of Clay Aiken losing in the first round on AI and the desperate need to listen to the fans to bring him back for Wild Card --same thing here -- Fame isn't stupid)

Inregrity? If you really have issues w/people lying, start a post about George W. Bush's rally to war, b/c Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. Talk about a liar!

We've yet to find anything of substance, and at this point, anything we do find, his people will probably plant.

But, good ole' Georgie has found the oil wells now, hasn't he?

Come back to this board once you've figured out what a really destructive, detestable lie is.

RIGHT ON LOVINLEE! That's exactly what I was thinking, but did not have the guts to say it!

How did the government become involved with the topic here? This forum is about Fame, not the government. The topic was posted referring to the contest, not how other entities handle lies.

To be fair to the other contestants who didn't lie, there should have been some kind of actions taken by the producers, to let people know they will not tolerate dishonest contestants. Doesn't mean Harlemm should be kicked out, or anything serious. But more like the producers doing something to make sure others, who may apply in future contests of Fame, do not get the message that lying will just be laughed off and excused.

Right now, it appears that the producers don't care about what kind of representation the contestents will make for them, but rather, how talented are they?

Does this mean talented people for Fame can do whatever they want if they have a "poor me, feel sorry for me because of such and such" issues in their life? Perhaps Harlemm's ploy was to get more votes, and he probably will succeed, but that doesn't change HOW he got successful. He should have told the truth, but since he didn't, he and the producers need to make it right and set standards for future contestants.

I think the other contestants should have a say in how it is handled. I wouldn't be happy knowing a co-contestant lied and the producers didn't care about it. I would wonder what else was unfair about the contest.

I think that it shows a major lack of confidence. I'm sorry, but he is just strange to me. BE NORMAL. I really hope that person who wins is all around confident from within and who can handle the pressures without trying to make everyone feel sorry for him. If a man wins, be a man....not a whimp. He is a sweet man, but this is not about being sweet.

Kukabeara - how do you know that none of the other contestants did not lie? It's very typical in the entertainment industry for people to lie - about their age, height, weight, hair color, eye color, political affiliation, etc. They want to succeed and something as superficial as age should not get in the way.

It's really very easy. If you don't like Harlemm, or anyone else for that matter, don't vote for them.

If you don't like Fame, its producers, hosts, etc. don't watch the program. If they don't have the ratings, it won't be on again.

1) There should never, ever BE a maximum age. Requiring a minimum age for legal purposes is one thing, but not maximum age.

2) Age is not usually an allowable question on a "job" application.

3) Not selecting someone strictly because of their age is age-discrimination. If HL had told the truth and was not selected and felt that it was because of his age ... he'd have to show that younger, but less-talented/qualified individual(s) made the cut, and he'd win a lawsuit.

4) Falsifying information on a job application is grounds for immediate termination.

kulabeara man, you need to chill! COMPASSION is also a moral obligation in my Book... If you cannot understand why he did it, than you need to go back to bible school to first learn to make your mind a little bit more fluid and second to learn not to throw stones unless we haven't sinned ourselves...As for the horror for the american children of watching somebody lie about their age, allow me to laugh at that hipocrisy...Have you watched TV lately????Do you see what garbage is bestowed on all of us on a daily basis, No politics, here but watch the lies that are told to us by the highest authorities in this country. Before judging anybody, make sure you prioritize what is important to denounce. Last, it is obvious to me that Harlem is beautiful soul.For anybody who knows how to look, there is an unmistakable innocence and purity in his face. Go Harlem. we love you.

hanne you are right it is not about being sweet it is about being incredibly talented and he is. If you can just look at his performance without double focal glassses (which i suspect you do) than you'll see that he is truly the ONLY original performer in the group. All the others are copy cats of establiched singers. Brandon = MICHAEL, serena= WHITNEY...ETC, and unfortunetaly as it always is with copycats not nearly as good.

As for the "whimp...absence of confidence..." comments; I think that perhaps you should consider how much courage and guts it takes to perform each week in front of this country...??
Has anybody noticed that Harlem has performed incredibly show after show as opposed to the majority of the other contestants with bigs highs and lows??? Confidence problem, maybe in daily life but under the spotlights... I don't think so!!!!! And personnaly that's all I ask from my performers. If I want a lesson in moral I'll read confucius. Anyway you guys in this country you are really confused, always trying to paint yourself as the champion of moral issues and bringing these in matters of little concern...notwithstanding that nobody on this earth is immune to lying. If you believe you are than you have a very shallow understanding of your own soul. The only things that matters is that you confess and try not to do it again...
Harlem brings me joy and I do not want to let the petty mind of PC america cover his magnificent voice...
As for those who feels my commnents are too harsh, please be my gest, do not lie about it ...hehe...

May Liao, you want me to go back to Bible school? Apprently you haven't read the Bible. If you had, you would have known what God says about lying. You would have also have known how He handled liars too.

As an employer, I would have fired him. My company doesn't have room for lying as it will cost me in customer trust. I'm not afraid of telling the truth, no matter the cost. I have lost business because I refused to lie. I chose to serve God, not man. If you want to serve what everyone else is doing on your TV, then it's your choice. As for Bible school, you want to bring that into the conversation, then you opened the door for me to say, we are in a lesson on this earth. Some choose TV as their values, some choose the Bible. Looks like you picked the TV and what everyone else does.

People have a choice to make about how they want to handle their lives, REGARDLESS of what people on television do, or what the rest of the world does. The producers are employing those contestants to represent themselves and the network. If you think lying is ok, then I would chuck your employment application too. If the producers want to keep a liar to represent themselves, I would not do business with them, just like in my industry, I do business with companies who have integrity. We have CONTRACTS in the business world that states what we can and cannot get away with. We also define the consequences if we violate those contracts.

Lying is considered a breach of contract in my business. You are missing the point of the entire conversation here. You cannot see past talent and what "the rest of TV does". I see an applicant who lied. Would you want him representing your business? It's sad that people pick their "heros" without even considering the person's character or lifestyle.

I know who my hero is... Jesus. The talent is fun to watch if it's in good taste, but I certainly don't excuse anyone lying to get ahead. We all have "bad breaks" in this world. What we do to overcome them is what costs us in the end.

I can look back at my success and say that I did it with honesty, and I didn't step on anyone to get ahead. Can the people on TV say that? Can you? As you pointed out, look at all the ones on TV that lie. I like the ones that don't. I like the ones that work hard and don't step on others or treat others unfair. If they make a mistake, I like the ones that don't excuse their mistakes, but they make it right with everyone. We all make mistakes. What you do with them is part of maturing and accepting responsibility.

Technically, Harlemm filled out an application. He falsified information and would have continued under the lie had it not have been brought to his attention. It was grounds for dismissal, or does TV allow you to lie on your application? If so, then everyone who thinks there is nothing wrong with cheating can go apply for a job with Fame. Who knows, you could get selected!

hi. personally i don't think that harlemm should be penalized for lying about his age cause debbie allen said that there is NO AGE LIMIT. he is very talented and i think he deserves a chance to be there.but i was very shocked when he said that he was 36, he looks much younger. go harlemm,go harlemm,go go go harlemm!!!!